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David Jaffe: It's Youtube Grifters that Killed Veilguard
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Denton
Member
He lost my respect long ago when he was triggered by this tweet:
I quite liked Jaffe, but seeing this moronic tweet of his really lowers my opinion of him, even if it is 8 years old. He probably still thinks it is true, the idiot.
BigDeadFreak
Member
We were trying to have that conversation years ago with the woke brigade. If you don't like something (Dr. Who being a man, James Bond being alive, the size of Lara Croft's tits) just ignore it and go and create something new.
However, the wokesters only know how to colonise, they are terrible at creating new things. As a result, they end up pissing us all off by ruining everything we like. The end result is a massive pushback from people trying to destroy everything that even hints at woke.
Donald mac Ronald
Member
How badly did this game bomb then, do we know?
ExtendEmbraceExtinguish
Member
Yep. Agreed and I was one of those back then that was shocked at what happened to cap. Yet my friends and I did not buy it as we were buying Spider-Man/xforce/spawn and X-men.
Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
The reason why I say we're not ready to have that conversation isn't me being a dick. I honestly think we cannot have this conversation because both sides thinks the other side is the worst thing in society and there are actors in both camps actively and needlessly antagonizing the other group just for the hell of it or because they're genuinely misguided.
I'm not talking about anyone in here specifically. But you know who those people are. The ones saying things like "straight white men gamers are ruining video games", or "DEI kills art".
I'll say that I disagree with most of the more vocal people on here when it comes to this topic. And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing. For the most part, I feel like we're talking past each other and cherry picking what we respond to(I've been guilty of this too). That's unfortunately what debating online has devolved into. The sad thing is nowadays if we disagree on one thing, we automatically have to dislike each other. Another reason why we just can't have this conversation.
We'll know around mid December when the November sales numbers come out.
Hawk The Slayer
Member
Lmao yep.
And if a game is indeed great than youtubers wouldn't even be trashing it in the first place.
Madserb2023
Member
Incels and grifters. The most important, least important, majority, minority in gaming. They seemingly number between 1 and 8 billion and have so little influence they can bring down the biggest companies. Yes, that about sums it up
LMJ
Member
he is actually
Due to the past events with other studios we are on guard, and FYI had the art director been professional it would have been dropped after that outside of the fringe
I happen to be a HUGE fan of Dragon Age and these idealistic morons may have killed the series due to some of the worst writing and worst actual RPG mechanics of all time in Veilgard regardless of the "woke" crap! It's easy to say walk away and everyone did with Dustborn, but these are ESTABLISHED IPS that many of us enjoy and are watching be destroyed HENCE our ire!
We are, YOU are not, the bulk of us are simply tired of watching our favorite IPs destroyed by idealistic morons who forego any semblance of world/character building
Not really
Both are occurring actually, in fact I would argue DEI practices are the key issue that's creating subpar writing etc, THEY ARE NOT HIRING THE BEST, if you exclude anyone for DEI purposes it's impossible to do so AKA hire based on merit
Again both, they often go hand in hand, if you are deadset on pushing ideals etc, something else will suffer in the process the issue wasn't just that Concord looked plain Jane when it came to it's art/design, it was a toxic (actual toxic FYI) work posativity and the inability to criticize less it be seen as Ist of some sort, of ism hell look at the "Professor"
Report: 'Concord' Developer Demanded Co-Workers Refer To Her As "Professor," Pushed "Extreme Politics," And Demanded Her Unvaccinated Colleagues Be Fired
A new report claims that one of the developers for Firewalk Studios' upcoming game Concord demanded her co-workers refer to her as "professor," that she pushed "extreme politics," and demanded that her unvaccinated colleagues be fired.
thatparkplace.com
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Yep .. which is what a lot of people decided to do. THAT is what killed this game.
GHG
Member
David Jaffe.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Gaffers.
The guy has released one game in 12 years. Drawn to Death which got a 56/100 MC rating.
His days of GOW and TM were literally 10 to 30 years ago. He's now a streamer looking for clicks. Leave him be.
The guy has released one game in 12 years. Drawn to Death which got a 56/100 MC rating.
His days of GOW and TM were literally 10 to 30 years ago. He's now a streamer looking for clicks. Leave him be.
LMJ
Member
I read it, but as I mentioned the problem lies that our favorite IPS/series are being mishandled and sometimes destroyed by these chuckleheads...So common that many of us are like
Ignoring a shit game doesn't do you any good if you are say a Batman fan and saw what DEI practices did to Rocksteady and JL, and I can guarantee you people will be extra wary over their next actual Batman game because of it. let alone the insult to Conway that game was...
You are right that there have never been more games then ever, and I would point out the bulk of us are fine with that regardless of how heavy the message is, idealistic soapbox games like Goodbye Volcano high or Dustborn AKA original pieces are ignored by ones such as myself if the game itself is garbage...
Again the ire is destroying what already exists (well outside of the niche fanboyism, but that's in the minority here lol)
Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
I think part of the reason I say this like it's nothing is that I'm at a point in my life where if someone fucks up something I used to enjoy my automatic reaction is "So that fucking sucks. Oh well, one less thing to occupy my mind/time".
I suppose It's not entirely fair to expect everyone to be so easily dismissive when something they love is taken in a direction they don't like.
Pegasus Actual
Member
Fuck yeah GAF. Get him! Get that motherfucker! Good boy GAF!
bender
What time is it?
Fuck yeah GAF. Get him! Get that motherfucker! Good boy GAF!
fudgybrownie
Member
Not even the woke minded people can save this game. It's just garbage. And gamers have taken out the trash for this one. Goodbye.
tkscz
Member
It's activist speak for "person who is doing better than I am when they share their opinions ". It's an "insult" that none of the people they call this find insulting
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The artful mincer
Member
Someone that doesn't believe what they say but chases the algorithm for views. Rightly or Wrongly being anti woke on youtube can get you millions of views today.
If you want to see an absolutely shameless example see andypants gaming interview with The Act man
Team Andromeda
Member
I knew it, you haven't played the game I tire of people going off what YouTube tells me to think.
So You haven't played it either... Says so much about modern gaming.
BusierDonkey
Member
Veilguard and the rest of these identity politics-ridden games were made for people who don't actually buy games. These idiots think they can take established franchises and just turn them into a self-insert fest and the fans will just roll with it. The worst part is that it's shoehorned into the games and comes up abruptly as if it was all written in by a separate entity and just side-loaded into the script.
GHG
Member
Wouldn't grafting require attracting an audience?
Maybe he thinks this is the video that will help propel him to the upper echelon of grifters.
There's no better publicity than getting chuds like us outraged.
Fbh
Member
I've come to like Jaffe more since listening to him on Last Stand Media content.
He is hilariously woke and I disagree with most of what he has to say, but at least I respect that he is willing to talk to "the other side".
As for the topic, nah. I'm sure grifters and the fact Veilguard became the popular game to hate for a while didn't help sales, but ultimately Bioware is still at fault for making a game that doesn't seem particularly good, didn't appeal to people and, from what I've seen, didn't stay true to what the franchise was originally about.
Probably an Xbox
He is hilariously woke and I disagree with most of what he has to say, but at least I respect that he is willing to talk to "the other side".
As for the topic, nah. I'm sure grifters and the fact Veilguard became the popular game to hate for a while didn't help sales, but ultimately Bioware is still at fault for making a game that doesn't seem particularly good, didn't appeal to people and, from what I've seen, didn't stay true to what the franchise was originally about.
Probably an Xbox
RoboFu
One of the green rats
Someone on YouTube who talks about things you don't personal like.
night13x
Member
David Jaffe is just trying to stay relavent in a non-relavent position. Stupid sacks of shits put edgy comments just for the clicks, the views, and the conversation to make themselves feel important. I'd like to think majority of mature smart gamers have moved on from people like him.
Cyber_hunter026
Member
I’ll said it once and I’ll say it again
It's actually not that deep and there's no conspiracy. What killed Dragon Age The Veilguard:
- too modern language and lots of anachronisms, and I don't even mean things like trans or non-binary, but the little things such as "team" instead of "party"
- an RPG in which you can't play a bad guy (douchebag or complete psychopath is not possible, "bad" only as in a mildly unfriendly character type)
- moral or background can't be shaped via dialogues; like the director wants to avoid any kind of escalation
- the protagonist constantly babysit his/her companions and intervene like they were kids
- big ludonarrative dissonance; beggars in the street and a narrative that tells you how bad things are while coins are literally lying everywhere when to destroy pots and stuff; also health potions
- repetitive combat system
- lackluster facial animations that doesn't fit the tone and mood of the voice actors/actresses
- visual art style that doesn't fit most fan expectations
- braindead puzzles where the solution is either spelled out, given away by companions or is just literally a camera sway away
- very limited skills, no lockpicking skills, no intelligence or charisma; there's no lockpicks
- dialogues without any skill checks
- gameplay doesn't allow to play out your role (e.g. a rogue... there's nothing really rogue-ish to do in this game)
- simplistic and stereotypical main villain(s)
- companion quests work in the same archaic way it already had in Mass Effect 1 where everyone tells you that need to their stuff so they can focus on their main task... and they tell you that one by one at the round table like it's everyone's turn
- changing visual style of (ugly) characters and/or races to make them more aesthetical pleasing
- lots of repititons in Varric's summaries, e.g. constant mentioning of the villains -> poor writing and narrative
- dialogue answer icons doesn't match the spoken lines, often the text doesn't match, too (while the text calls someone an idiot, your character just says something like "What are YOU doing here?")
- little conflict in dialogues even if you pick the "meanest" answer... which isn't mean at all
- stealing gold in a church with countless dead bodies isn't side-eyed or mentioned at all by any companion
- companions banter setting in too early even before you arrive at the point they're reffering to
- some companions acting like children and teenagers when they are so terrified by the environment they match their tone to something scary, like the narrator in an audio book for children
- constant banter and congratulations with bro and buddy attitude in combat that doesn't fit the universe or dangerous situation
- very few decisions with drastic consequences
- dialogue system that points out that your answer will end a romance for good or pursue a romance, but without final commiting; that's video game romance for dummies
- following quest markers is easy as riding on a railroad
- copy and paste caves and rooms
- lackluster and udnerwhelming loot
- most locations lack credibility with almost empty taverns
- no NPC daily routines (something a little game called Gothic in 2001 already managed to do), no reactive behaviour of NPCs to the player, like the barkeeper don't say anything when you jump behind the bar
- no or few NPCs at the docks or ships
- environment doesn't match NPCs behaviour or inventory; a trader standing beforevarious paintings only trades... vases... of course
- one NPC is supposed to be in jail for many many years and yet when you arrive he looks like fresh out of shower and is heavily equiped
Not sure If I've mentioned everything, but it's still quite exhaustive already.
It's simply not a good role playing game. It's a very simplistic combat-orientated action adventure with bad writing. That's it. There's no anti-Veilguard agenda, no conspiracy. Just as some gamers focus on the gender stuff to talk this game down (while there's plenty of other reason to not like this game), there's a number of players focusing on these people and deny all the criticism that has nothing to do at all with diversity attempts.
- too modern language and lots of anachronisms, and I don't even mean things like trans or non-binary, but the little things such as "team" instead of "party"
- an RPG in which you can't play a bad guy (douchebag or complete psychopath is not possible, "bad" only as in a mildly unfriendly character type)
- moral or background can't be shaped via dialogues; like the director wants to avoid any kind of escalation
- the protagonist constantly babysit his/her companions and intervene like they were kids
- big ludonarrative dissonance; beggars in the street and a narrative that tells you how bad things are while coins are literally lying everywhere when to destroy pots and stuff; also health potions
- repetitive combat system
- lackluster facial animations that doesn't fit the tone and mood of the voice actors/actresses
- visual art style that doesn't fit most fan expectations
- braindead puzzles where the solution is either spelled out, given away by companions or is just literally a camera sway away
- very limited skills, no lockpicking skills, no intelligence or charisma; there's no lockpicks
- dialogues without any skill checks
- gameplay doesn't allow to play out your role (e.g. a rogue... there's nothing really rogue-ish to do in this game)
- simplistic and stereotypical main villain(s)
- companion quests work in the same archaic way it already had in Mass Effect 1 where everyone tells you that need to their stuff so they can focus on their main task... and they tell you that one by one at the round table like it's everyone's turn
- changing visual style of (ugly) characters and/or races to make them more aesthetical pleasing
- lots of repititons in Varric's summaries, e.g. constant mentioning of the villains -> poor writing and narrative
- dialogue answer icons doesn't match the spoken lines, often the text doesn't match, too (while the text calls someone an idiot, your character just says something like "What are YOU doing here?")
- little conflict in dialogues even if you pick the "meanest" answer... which isn't mean at all
- stealing gold in a church with countless dead bodies isn't side-eyed or mentioned at all by any companion
- companions banter setting in too early even before you arrive at the point they're reffering to
- some companions acting like children and teenagers when they are so terrified by the environment they match their tone to something scary, like the narrator in an audio book for children
- constant banter and congratulations with bro and buddy attitude in combat that doesn't fit the universe or dangerous situation
- very few decisions with drastic consequences
- dialogue system that points out that your answer will end a romance for good or pursue a romance, but without final commiting; that's video game romance for dummies
- following quest markers is easy as riding on a railroad
- copy and paste caves and rooms
- lackluster and udnerwhelming loot
- most locations lack credibility with almost empty taverns
- no NPC daily routines (something a little game called Gothic in 2001 already managed to do), no reactive behaviour of NPCs to the player, like the barkeeper don't say anything when you jump behind the bar
- no or few NPCs at the docks or ships
- environment doesn't match NPCs behaviour or inventory; a trader standing beforevarious paintings only trades... vases... of course
- one NPC is supposed to be in jail for many many years and yet when you arrive he looks like fresh out of shower and is heavily equiped
Not sure If I've mentioned everything, but it's still quite exhaustive already.
It's simply not a good role playing game. It's a very simplistic combat-orientated action adventure with bad writing. That's it. There's no anti-Veilguard agenda, no conspiracy. Just as some gamers focus on the gender stuff to talk this game down (while there's plenty of other reason to not like this game), there's a number of players focusing on these people and deny all the criticism that has nothing to do at all with diversity attempts.
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digoutyoursoul
Member
Usually someone who can’t make videos anymore unless it’s monetised
RoboFu
One of the green rats
I’ll said it once and I’ll say it again
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Sorry Jaffe.
You really jumped the shark with this one. It's fucking nuts to make this claim.
You really jumped the shark with this one. It's fucking nuts to make this claim.
The artful mincer
Member
No this is all just confirmation bias.he is actually
Due to the past events with other studios we are on guard, and FYI had the art director been professional it would have been dropped after that outside of the fringe
I happen to be a HUGE fan of Dragon Age and these idealistic morons may have killed the series due to some of the worst writing and worst actual RPG mechanics of all time in Veilgard regardless of the "woke" crap! It's easy to say walk away and everyone did with Dustborn, but these are ESTABLISHED IPS that many of us enjoy and are watching be destroyed HENCE our ire!
We are, YOU are not, the bulk of us are simply tired of watching our favorite IPs destroyed by idealistic morons who forego any semblance of world/character building
Not really
Both are occurring actually, in fact I would argue DEI practices are the key issue that's creating subpar writing etc, THEY ARE NOT HIRING THE BEST, if you exclude anyone for DEI purposes it's impossible to do so AKA hire based on merit
Again both, they often go hand in hand, if you are deadset on pushing ideals etc, something else will suffer in the process the issue wasn't just that Concord looked plain Jane when it came to it's art/design, it was a toxic (actual toxic FYI) work posativity and the inability to criticize less it be seen as Ist of some sort, of ism hell look at the "Professor"
Report: 'Concord' Developer Demanded Co-Workers Refer To Her As "Professor," Pushed "Extreme Politics," And Demanded Her Unvaccinated Colleagues Be Fired
A new report claims that one of the developers for Firewalk Studios' upcoming game Concord demanded her co-workers refer to her as "professor," that she pushed "extreme politics," and demanded that her unvaccinated colleagues be fired.
Plenty of "Woke games" have been both commercially and critically successful. Plenty of er "anti woke" games have had average sales. The youtubers just focus on the games that conform to there narrative.
E.g. FF Rebirth despite having a 90+ metacritic has attractive women in skimpy clothes hasn't sold that much better than veilguard.
Stellar Blade despite all the hype didn't actually sell that much. Luckily it probably had a reasonable budget so it didn't need to.
It's all bullshit
Wishmaster92
Member
This guy pisses me off with his devils advocate shit he plays sometimes.
FunkMiller
Member
Here would be my genuine question for Jaffe:
If YouTubers have this much influence on the success of Triple AAA games, why wasn't Hogwart's Legacy a disaster, when there were dozen of anti-JK Rowling, anti- Hogwart's videos on YouTube around the time of its launch?
If YouTubers have this much influence on the success of Triple AAA games, why wasn't Hogwart's Legacy a disaster, when there were dozen of anti-JK Rowling, anti- Hogwart's videos on YouTube around the time of its launch?
swaffles23
Member
and Colin wonders why people that listen to Sacred Symbols dislike Jaffe
POKEYCLYDE
Member
Are YouTube grifters' influence that mighty?
Or does a bad product result in the game dying?
Concord's gameplay was slow and stale. Designs were ugly. It was a paid game in a free to play genre. Bad product for multiple reasons.
Veilguard's writing is awful. Choice is boiled down to sassy good guy, heartfelt good guy, no nonsense good guy. A beloved series getting the MCU treatment with a truckload of lecturing along with it.
We've already seen a successful "woke" game. Baldur's Gate 3, because it was a masterpiece. Maybe you could argue that it released before the "anti-woke grifters" were in full force, but I'm skeptical that the anti-woke grift has that much influence.
A game's quality ultimately decides it's own fate.
The real test I feel will be Avowed. It's preview impressions have all been pretty great, even from those who were critical of Veilguard. Yet.. the anti-woke grifters are in full force complaining about something as inconsequential as pronouns.
Or does a bad product result in the game dying?
Concord's gameplay was slow and stale. Designs were ugly. It was a paid game in a free to play genre. Bad product for multiple reasons.
Veilguard's writing is awful. Choice is boiled down to sassy good guy, heartfelt good guy, no nonsense good guy. A beloved series getting the MCU treatment with a truckload of lecturing along with it.
We've already seen a successful "woke" game. Baldur's Gate 3, because it was a masterpiece. Maybe you could argue that it released before the "anti-woke grifters" were in full force, but I'm skeptical that the anti-woke grift has that much influence.
A game's quality ultimately decides it's own fate.
The real test I feel will be Avowed. It's preview impressions have all been pretty great, even from those who were critical of Veilguard. Yet.. the anti-woke grifters are in full force complaining about something as inconsequential as pronouns.
Krathoon
Member
He is acting like the YouTubers are grifting people. They may exaggerate, but they don't do that.
nowhat
Gold Member
Hell, Ultima V did this in 1988.
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
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