like sony, nintendo would sooner abandon one market than go third party.
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NPD Sales Results for September 2013 [Up2: Console positioning, 360 estimate]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
like sony, nintendo would sooner abandon one market than go third party.
wait doesnt NPD still not have access to Walmart numbers, along with digital.
why exactly are their numbers...er they dont even release raw numbers anymore, so why are there rankings any more credible than vg-charts again?
and i heard Patrick Klepek and Alex talking about these NPD charts not actually giving raw numbers a few weeks ago on their AM show, so dont give me the runaround about theres different tiers of NPD access or whatever, those guys would have the highest tier access if there was one.
how is seeing "1.GTA" better than "GTA + these raw numbers we've acquired which are clearly higher than everything else and thus i can make my own conclusion that its a hell of a lot further than the game in number 2 and get a much more obvious and realistic chart of how the gaming world is, rather than wondering if the games are just a few hundred copies apart, which NDP leaves up in the air"
this is like the Major Nelson top 20 list on XBL, wow theres 4 COD games in the top 5, and Minecraft right at number 2 and some really dumb game like Doritos Crash Course down near 20, so thats great, but how bout some context, is Doritos getting a million players, or is XBL really that dead that a few hundred are playing it and its still the 20th most popular game, Minecraft only had a few million sold and was number 2 meanwhile every COD game had 10+ million and only have 1 above...how bout some context for those rankings?
why exactly are their numbers...er they dont even release raw numbers anymore, so why are there rankings any more credible than vg-charts again?
and i heard Patrick Klepek and Alex talking about these NPD charts not actually giving raw numbers a few weeks ago on their AM show, so dont give me the runaround about theres different tiers of NPD access or whatever, those guys would have the highest tier access if there was one.
how is seeing "1.GTA" better than "GTA + these raw numbers we've acquired which are clearly higher than everything else and thus i can make my own conclusion that its a hell of a lot further than the game in number 2 and get a much more obvious and realistic chart of how the gaming world is, rather than wondering if the games are just a few hundred copies apart, which NDP leaves up in the air"
this is like the Major Nelson top 20 list on XBL, wow theres 4 COD games in the top 5, and Minecraft right at number 2 and some really dumb game like Doritos Crash Course down near 20, so thats great, but how bout some context, is Doritos getting a million players, or is XBL really that dead that a few hundred are playing it and its still the 20th most popular game, Minecraft only had a few million sold and was number 2 meanwhile every COD game had 10+ million and only have 1 above...how bout some context for those rankings?
So maybe an interesting story.
I went to Best Buy last Tuesday to buy a couple of cd's.
This is sort of the main Dallas Texas Best Buy, so I assume it is somewhat an example of Sony, MS, and Nintendo marketing.
So ai grabbed the three cd's I was looking for, and made my way to the video game section. I just wanted to see if there was a playable next gen system and such. So I get there, and there is a giant display. The front half of it it is Ps4 and the reverse side is XBox One.
But all they had was fake boxes, and preorder slips for day one games for each console, but no way to order the console itself.
So I walk away, and check out the gaming section. I have most of the consoles and handhelds, plus I have an interest in marketing and such, so I want to check out the boxes and the amount of retail space involved, because I find it interesting.
So while I am looking over the games, two dudes from the section come over, and they are in sales and all that. This is my best recollition of the conversation.
"Hey can we help you....
No I am just browsing thank you...
What are you looking for?.....
Nothing in particular I am just checking out the games...
Well nobody just browses... Do you like first person shooters....
Yes I do, but I like all sorts of games and I am just checking stuff out...
Have you noticed that we have rearranged the gaming section.....
No I have not been here for a month, I did not notice the difference...
This is where second sales guy comes in.
Well we have put the 360 games over here, and we have consolidated all Sony games here, and you can find Nintendo games here and there.
Once again I said thanks I am browsing"
Oh the story goes on forever. I am board just telling it. But by the end of it I escaped these two dudes by telling them, "I am going to check out printers."
I lost two hundred words for some reason while typing this out. It got funny at some point I Sweary.
I swear it was a good story, but tapping this out on my IPAD wore me down.
I went to Best Buy last Tuesday to buy a couple of cd's.
This is sort of the main Dallas Texas Best Buy, so I assume it is somewhat an example of Sony, MS, and Nintendo marketing.
So ai grabbed the three cd's I was looking for, and made my way to the video game section. I just wanted to see if there was a playable next gen system and such. So I get there, and there is a giant display. The front half of it it is Ps4 and the reverse side is XBox One.
But all they had was fake boxes, and preorder slips for day one games for each console, but no way to order the console itself.
So I walk away, and check out the gaming section. I have most of the consoles and handhelds, plus I have an interest in marketing and such, so I want to check out the boxes and the amount of retail space involved, because I find it interesting.
So while I am looking over the games, two dudes from the section come over, and they are in sales and all that. This is my best recollition of the conversation.
"Hey can we help you....
No I am just browsing thank you...
What are you looking for?.....
Nothing in particular I am just checking out the games...
Well nobody just browses... Do you like first person shooters....
Yes I do, but I like all sorts of games and I am just checking stuff out...
Have you noticed that we have rearranged the gaming section.....
No I have not been here for a month, I did not notice the difference...
This is where second sales guy comes in.
Well we have put the 360 games over here, and we have consolidated all Sony games here, and you can find Nintendo games here and there.
Once again I said thanks I am browsing"
Oh the story goes on forever. I am board just telling it. But by the end of it I escaped these two dudes by telling them, "I am going to check out printers."
I lost two hundred words for some reason while typing this out. It got funny at some point I Sweary.
I swear it was a good story, but tapping this out on my IPAD wore me down.
Or Nintendo did not effectively sell the game to Wii U owners let alone to people without the system to make people buy it. People should not expect Wii U owners to buy anything and everything just because it appears on the system. Interest in the game still has to be there just like all other systems. The system being starved for game doesn't mean personal taste, determination which games matter more due to budget, etc disappears.
Serious question. Why do people expect Wii U owners should be buying every game coming out? Where is that expectation coming from?
I will admit I ultimately couldn't pull the trigger on the game. While I liked what I saw and enjoyed the demo well enough I couldn't take the next step. The collecting of characters and the tone of the game just didn't grab me fully in the end. I was hoping a demo would change that but it didn't. It's why I was looking forward to Bayonetta 2 from the start. I knew I'd be okay buying that as that's more the style of game I like. Back in the day I bought Devil May Cry but Viewtiful Joe didn't do anything for me when it comes to the style of games Kamiya designs.
Disappointing the game didn't sell more but I'm not going to fault others for it not grabbing them. I will fault Nintendo for not perhaps doing a better job of selling it to people. Perhaps they could have and I'd be sitting here playing it but I don't feel they did. Kamiya could have designed a more accessible game as well but I don't believe he did.
I don't really think I understand the point of this story lol
They are not. Seems like they doubling down with it (Vita TV, Remote Play for PS4).
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
Exactly. Also, the fact that many Wii U owners that would have bought the game in Feb held off from buying the game now - either because they felt betrayed, or because there's a lot of other games to play at this time of year.
Ha. There was a point. But I am just going to let it go for the sake of all of us.
Yeah I don't get it either. Maybe you need to describe where they put the games.
Aquamarine
Member
1) NPD has the cooperation of 90% to 95% of all USA retailers to exchange realtime POS sales data, including Walmart's sales. They only estimate 5% - 10% of USA retailers.
2) NPD's only competition---VG_Chartz---only does a tiny bit of actual channel checking, performing the vast majority of their "data collection" through "algorithms" and "polling" (that constantly gets compared to NPD). These estimations can be way off from NPD at times---because it's essentially garbage data with little basis in actual, real-time sales.
3) The rankings exist only as NPD's self-promotion...essentially, the only reason they release anything publicly is to advertise their service. Once upon a time the company was much more receptive to giving out data, but management policy has made them extremely restrictive and aggressive towards raw number leaks.
I'm most worried about Nintendo's relationship with Platinum, honestly.
TW101:
First 2.5 weeks = ~19,000 in USA
First 2 weeks = 10,126 in Japan
That's 29,000 at launch in the two principal territories that are interested in the game...abysmal sales by every stretch of the word, and an overall net loss for the company. I know Bayonetta 2 is already well into production, but I worry about Nintendo getting cold feet and abruptly canceling the project and terminating the relationship, like they did with Star Fox 2, or the Kirby games on GameCube.
dont call it a comeback
Banned
So Wii U sales are only 60k? That is pretty disappointing...
metalslimer
Member
The only game I actually worry about being cancelled that is announced in FExSMT especially now that Sega owns them. You know I'm even more interested to see how something like Sonic sells on Wii U especially when it looks like the highest effort Sonic game in a long time. Also, I wonder if Nintendo will pull the trigger on a 250 BF bundle.
Yeah, I've been thinking about this too. Thankfully, Nintendo has a great relationship with Sega so I'm sure they can figure something out.
dont call it a comeback
Banned
Wait....
why does IGN say a full 100%?
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/10/17/grand-theft-auto-v-dominates-us-sales-in-september
Did Wii U numbers double or triple?
why does IGN say a full 100%?
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/10/17/grand-theft-auto-v-dominates-us-sales-in-september
Did Wii U numbers double or triple?
Aquamarine
Member
IGN made a typographical error---Wii U sales are above 93K in this reporting period.
For some reason, this really captivated me.
Bayonetta is more likely to be more accessible of the two games though. A single character vs multiple characters. It's premise might be an easier sell and could be easier to understand. It could also fill the itch that some have due to wanting another Metroid Prime or Prime-ish game. That is if Nintendo bothers to try and make that connection to directly target those games. Wonderful 101 was possibly to over the top for it's own good.
In some ways I think Nintendo has been pushing that Bayonetta 2 is the more important of the two games as well. Bayonetta 2 was announced in their E3 presentation remember. We only found about then P-100 during a tv interview segment. They've made more of a big deal about Bayonetta 2 overall. Which tells me they have more faith in that or at least it appears that way.
Petrae
Member
That's a chilling thought. Given such poor sales/consumer reaction to TW101, I could see a scenario (though unlikely) where Nintendo wonders if the money spent on Bayonetta 2 is worthwhile.
There would be meltdowns of epic proportions if this scenario came to pass. Those who bought WiiU with the promise of Bayonetta 2 would be pissed if Nintendo reversed course and canned the project.
Saint Gregory
Member
It would be like the announcement thread except now there'd be 100% vitriol aimed at Nintendo instead of 66%.
That reminds me of a comment on another forum that went "I didn't learn anything from what you posted, at all." Somebody else posted "No, that's not true. We learned that the person knows how to operate a keyboard, has functioning hands, a functioning brain, has access to the internet, knows the English language..." and all sorts of other meta stuff.
On topic, I didn't know about Brain Age selling so abysmally, makes me wonder if that means Nintendo will try other ways to get that audience in the future (even if that means changes to what the hardware is or does).
If they can Bayonetta 2 despite the original being a tried and tested game with some name recognition, then I would worry about X (wasn't Xenoblade wayyyy more niche than Bayonetta?). Should they can X or incite another "Operation Rainfall" then I would have to reevaluate my opinion about Nintendo and my disappointment with the company would be irreperable. I did not buy the WiiU at launch but as soon as I played Xenoblade that is when I knew "I need access to Monolithsoft and that means owning another Nintendo console." If they intend to support the WiiU, it needs any game they can get their hands on. But can underperformance of games without "Mario" in the title be sustained for a whole generation I wonder, with the rising cost of development, it would pain me to see ambitious games not be rewarded saleswise just because they aren't traditional Nintendo IP's. And oddly enough, the rising cost of development, the chasing of AAA, is something Nintendo wanted to fight against, yet looks like the titles they dare to be ambitious with underperform.
Am I right to think that the handling of such an epically underperforming console as the WiiU is uncharted territory for Nintendo? I wonder how they handle this, interesting times ahead and a learning experience for us about what kind of company Nintendo will define itself to be.
Nintendo is probably the one paying for it so I don't really see it getting canceled.
I think it is the most well told boring story ever. If only some great narrator could put it on tape so that people could fall asleep to the story.
Aquamarine
Member
They've paid for plenty of 1st-party games they've canceled well into development...like Star Fox 2, Project H.A.M.M.E.R for Wii, or the traditional Kirby games on GameCube. There have been others throughout the years.
If Nintendo thinks the project will make the company a substantial loss at retail, they might cancel it to write-off the sunk costs and prevent themselves from digging a bigger hole.
Of course, they never have to announce this cancellation...they would just quietly never mention it again.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Bayonetta 2 isn't getting cancelled. Come on, people. Nintendo knows just as well as anyone that Platinum's titles don't do big numbers. They're working with them because their games add variety and value to the console. Nintendo's also probably hoping word of mouth will help The Wonderful 101 over time, as new Wii U owners pick up the system in the coming months and years. It's always going to be on the eShop, so it will never be hard to find.
metalslimer
Member
You can't honestly say with a straight face W101 would have been greenlit if these sales were known beforehand
I was mainly talking about Sega pulling the plug. I still doubt its going to get canceled but its possible.
shocking fucking news the entire audience for that game has moved on to mobile gaming
same exact thing is going to happen for the wii ____ games on wii u, and kinect shit on xbone. mark my words.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
That's a nice WiiU increase. Now they just need to double that number, retain that as the baseline, and they might end somewhere between the GCN and PSP unit totals in America. Given a 5 year lifespan. That's if it wasn't just a one month bubble.
Still, better than I expected. But it has had quite a few good releases in the past two months.
Still, better than I expected. But it has had quite a few good releases in the past two months.
They probably got good money for the exclusivity, and they are still independent. If they deem it hopeless after Bayonetta 2, they can still work on other platforms.
What really scares me is what can happen to Monolith if their game bombs.
vinnygambini
Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
Monolith is a first party studio
No need to worry, you can rest easy now On a side note, judging by the reception from GAF, it seems that X is one of their most eagerly anticipated titles of 2014. I'm looking forward for more information on that game.
Freezie KO
Banned
It's a good thing that Nintendo made Platinum change the art direction for Wonderful 101 to be more appealing to a wider audience. Glad that paid off for them.
Honestly, that game was never going to sell. A niche genre, extremely divisive controls, complex mechanics, not unanimously critically acclaimed, not unanimously praised by gamers, 'meh' art direction, and a low install base.
It's weird how some people expect Wii U owners to buy any game just because it's exclusive to Wii U. People who own a Nintendo console are just like any other gamer. They'll buy a game if they want to play it and see value in it. Somehow, this gets mistaken on message boards that people should "support" a platform, but it doesn't work that way in the market.
That'd be pretty dire for Nintendo, considering 2.5 of their holiday titles are Wii ___ games.
Although it might be better for the long term if they just ripped the band-aid off quickly.
So is NST.
Honestly, that game was never going to sell. A niche genre, extremely divisive controls, complex mechanics, not unanimously critically acclaimed, not unanimously praised by gamers, 'meh' art direction, and a low install base.
It's weird how some people expect Wii U owners to buy any game just because it's exclusive to Wii U. People who own a Nintendo console are just like any other gamer. They'll buy a game if they want to play it and see value in it. Somehow, this gets mistaken on message boards that people should "support" a platform, but it doesn't work that way in the market.
That'd be pretty dire for Nintendo, considering 2.5 of their holiday titles are Wii ___ games.
Although it might be better for the long term if they just ripped the band-aid off quickly.
Monolith is a first party studio
So is NST.
Its nintendos fault really. They never even advertised the game except stupid nintendo directs which are just a direct way to make your game bomb.
OrbitalBeard
Member
I don't think Nintendo expected the Wii U to be doing as poorly as it is now when this game was greenlit, which was at least two years ago. I doubt they blame Platinum for the low numbers, but I'd be surprised if Nintendo ever expected it to be a huge hit either. The game was practically ignored by Nintendo themselves at E3 2012, when the game was officially announced.
Rush2thestart
Member
I dont think W101 has any bearing on Bayonetta 2. Do you honestly think Nintendo was expecting this game to boost sales? They didn't even feature it in their E3 presentation.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
Wow @ GTA V
Impressed that 3DS is still on top and over 169k at least.
Wii U not flying, but ~90k is at least something
Impressed that 3DS is still on top and over 169k at least.
Wii U not flying, but ~90k is at least something
Well TW101 selling 20k is bad, atleast it doubled what need for speed sold.
It had a tacky Japanese style, convoluted controls, terrible marketing on the worst selling console in years. I don't know what people expected. Nintendo really should money hat games like dead rising 3 and titanfall, games that would add that westernized-shooter side to their library.
With that said, TW101 was awesome as fuck and I feel like I'm one of the priveleged few who will ever know that.
It had a tacky Japanese style, convoluted controls, terrible marketing on the worst selling console in years. I don't know what people expected. Nintendo really should money hat games like dead rising 3 and titanfall, games that would add that westernized-shooter side to their library.
With that said, TW101 was awesome as fuck and I feel like I'm one of the priveleged few who will ever know that.
Monolith is a first party studio
On a side note, judging by the reception from GAF, it seems that X is one of their most eagerly anticipated titles of 2014. I'm looking forward for more information on that game.
This. Not just gaf but a LOT of gaming outlets. X is perhaps THE one game outside of Smash Bros and now Super Mario 3D World that has people buzzing, both Wii U owners and non-Wii U owners. After Xenoblade doing okay even with how it was handled they won't make that mistake again. Also isn't Monolith Soft somewhat small. Nintendo likely aren't breaking the bank and they did some amazing stuff in Xenoblade Chronicles with the team size they had. I would say Monolith Soft is pretty safe.
theprodigy
Member
Monolith is a first party studio
On a side note, judging by the reception from GAF, it seems that X is one of their most eagerly anticipated titles of 2014. I'm looking forward for more information on that game.
judging by the reception on GAF, Wonderful 101 was also hyped up
Not really. Pretty much hyped the same way something like Bayonetta 2 is, which means threads full of people arguing about how it would sell and why is it on Wii U.
No people who own a Wii U are not like other gamers.
They have some memory of a Nintendo that made the best games, but also attracted the best third party games. Castlevania, Final Fantasy, and Mega Man and so on. But read the statement I am quoting in a super evil voice. Pretty fucking creepy right? As in, you would not leave a loved one alone with said person....
opticalmace
Member
GTAV bundle.
SolarPowered
Member
Bayonetta would not go quietly into the night. Those cancellations are small time in comparison. If it were to happen we'd know.
Schadenfreude would also kill gaf
I'm happy with my 2 copies of The Wonderful 101, still playing and enjoying it more than a month after release.
It's a damn shame that it didn't find more of an audience but that's the way things work sometimes. Sadly quality is no guarantee that something will sell.
Hopefully new Wii U owners looking for something fresh to play end up giving it a shot at some point. Do we know how Viewtiful Joe, Okami and God Hand sold in their first month on the market? Would be interesting to compare!
It's a damn shame that it didn't find more of an audience but that's the way things work sometimes. Sadly quality is no guarantee that something will sell.
Hopefully new Wii U owners looking for something fresh to play end up giving it a shot at some point. Do we know how Viewtiful Joe, Okami and God Hand sold in their first month on the market? Would be interesting to compare!