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Historic nuclear deal reached between Iran and world powers

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R

Roland_Gunner

Member
Hix said:
Meanwhile the Iranian people suffer under the oppressive regime and atheists, gays, journalists et al, wonder how such liberal bastions as the US can throw them under the fucking bus.
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When the preliminary deal was announced there were huge genuine celebrations from people in Iran because they are tired of being ground down by the sanctions regime. Iran isn't going to be a democratic paradise but this is an important first step in bringing them into the world community.
 
S

Suen

Member
Kolx said:
Iran also support the killing of innocents in Syria and support a sectarian war against Sunni in Iraq. Iran is NOT even a bit better than of the country you mentioned so if you want to condemn any of the actions these countries did maybe you should have some consistency and condemn Iran as well.
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Iran has been supporting Iraq since day one last year when ISIS invaded and started ethnically cleansing areas of any non-Sunnis (and now they've started killing any Sunni that goes against them). They've provided weapons, training and support to groups that consist of Iraqis fighting for their country to not only protect the Shia majority who are frequent targets of ISIS but to liberate Sunnis IN Sunni areas under ISIS control including Tikrit, Baiji, various parts of Diyala and Anbar (ongoing process). The PMU, in cooperation between Iraqis and the assist from Iran, now consists of brigades formed of other minorities including Shabaks, Christians, Yezidis and even Sunni tribes. So sure, if you want to say that all those minorities including Sunnis kill Sunnis en masse, something which is bs then be my guest. GCC media and the western media tried so hard to paint it as a Shia militia group that was out to ethnically cleanse Sunnis (God forbid Iraqis ever having a right to defend their own country without being labeled something by some terrorist sympathizer or westerner abroad, guess they can't even defend themselves from ISIS without being labeled). When their bullshit didn't fit what the PMU did they tried report about crimes being reported from unreliable witnesses, even using footage from Syria showing ISIS looting homes as proof. When those reports stopped resurfacing and Iraqi Sunnis went back to their cities now free from ISIS, resumed their ordinary life and thanked the army and PMU western news outlets. toned down on it. Now that the group is even more diverse than before they've toned down even more. A fucking laughing stock, and what's worse is that they are seen as credible news outlets by the majority of the western world for the simple fact that they are western. It's like swallowing whatever shit RT, Fox News and Dailymail comes out with.

Stop talking nonsense and drop the bullshit from the western news about a sectarian war going on. ISIS invaded and killed countless of minorities back in 2014 (they did it for years before that but never mind). They killed over 2000 Shias belonging to the army in a day, a video they recently released to show proof of. What was the retaliation from the Iraqi Shia? None. The answer back was to defend the country and liberate Sunni Iraqis from ISIS, and that's including areas where the very same Sunni population had supported them. It is an extremist Sunni group killing any non-Sunni in Iraq. It is an extremist Sunni group killing Sunnis in Iraq. It is innocent Sunnis traveling to Shia areas in Iraq for a better and safer life, not the other way around. It is Iraqi Shia hosting those Iraqi Sunnis, taking risks of unintentionally helping ISIS fighters hiding among them which results in new suicide bombers and car bombs killing those very same Shia that helped Sunnis escaping from ISIS en masse. If there was a sectarian was going on they wouldn't fucking travel to Shia majority cities for protection. Seriously the western narrative can eat shit, there's only one thing going on: ISIS and it's supporters in Iraq vs Iraqis. Done. The western world and GCC can paint it as much as they want as a sectarian war in an attempt to fragment the country, but unless Iraqis want it to happen they, and believers like you won't.

Oh and btw:

U.S paid and bribed Sunni tribal chiefs that were allied and supported with Al-Qaida to switch sides and "fight" against them in Anbar back when U.S. forces were still in the country. When they left, money stopped rolling in and Iraq's govt. where having none of that shit (of bribing and paying terrorists money to not support terrorist organizations) Anbar went pro-IS again.

The Iraqi constitution US was actively involved in creating is sectarian to its very core, from the top positions of the government down to the military.

US talked about supporting Sunni groups and alike in Iraq directly without needing any permission from Iraq's central govt. There were talks about creating mini-states in the country, a proposal the administration rejected later. I guess it's not sectarian while the U.S. does it eh?

U.S. has among the most sectarian, repressive monarchies and dictatorships as allies.

"But Iran...."

Condemn your own fucking selves first.
 
B

Beelzebufo

Banned
Admiral Woofington said:
Maybe later I might see some positives but right now my concern is my livelihood and my source of income so forgive me for seeing this as a negative. I might come around eventually.
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If nothing else, in the worst case scenario you'll be getting out of a doomed industry a little earlier than everyone else.
 
F

Four_Chamber

Member
Momentous news- trying to figure out how this doesn't have more attention at GAF.

Obama really doing big things as he finishes off his presidency. The infographic speaks volumes- without this deal, Iran would have free rein to do whatever it wants. It's not like the threat of sanctions is gone either, they can snap back fairly quickly.

Of course, you have the GOP groaning already about it without even reviewing the document. I absolutely love the veto option at this point. When oil prices come down, the general public is going to be pretty happy too. And don't even get me started on the fearmongering Israelis like Netanyahu and Bennett right now. It's fickle but more than anything I'm pleased that diplomacy won over the bullshit that has been pushed by Netanyahu for several years. I can't wait until this agreement passes and those hate-mongers are scrambling to invent a new reality.
 
B

Beelzebufo

Banned
Eighty Deuce said:
Let me know when they stop celebrating death to America day. I'll give a shit about Iran then.
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I mean, this can't hurt haha. We finally decided to ignore the raving madman that's been antagonizing them for years and gave them the benefit of the doubt on a deal based on trust.
 
F

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
On the subject of Iran-Iraq relations, I'd like to mention that Iran has provided Iraq with capable weapons to fight ISIS, including a number of Sukhoi Su-25s whose pilots took refuge in Iran during the First Gulf War.

So yeah, politics can be complicated like that.
 
N

NimbusD

Member
Cub3h said:
I can't help but feel that it's a bad idea to let a country that has an annual parade where they chant "Death to America, death to Israel" and where leaders routinely talk about wiping an entire country off the map, have access to nuclear technology.
Do people forget that Iran is either #1 or #2 when it comes to state sponsored terrorism in the world? They've murdered tons of US troops with IEDs in Iraq, sent rockets and equipment to Hezbollah, and now the west should trust them not to misuse nuclear technology?

The Saudis will not take this very well, I fully expect them to already be on the phone with Pakistan in order to arrange for some of "their" nukes to be transferred over if things escalate. They've funded the Pakistani army with billions, in my opinion with this Iran deal in mind.

It just feels like this situation is a giant powder keg waiting to blow up, and this deal does nothing but up the stakes. Can anyone explain to me what we (the West) have to gain from this, as I don't see it.
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I don't think you understand this deal? It's absolutely not just letting them walk their way to a bomb. Why would we do that?
 
A

Arkeband

Banned
Eighty Deuce said:
Let me know when they stop celebrating death to America day. I'll give a shit about Iran then.
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It's been pointed out that 'Death to X' is a colloquialism like how 'Fuck X' is not actually suggesting sexing X up.

If America wasn't King Bastard of the planet, you'd have less of this. Look inward before you condemn outward.
 
F

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Eighty Deuce said:
Let me know when they stop celebrating death to America day. I'll give a shit about Iran then.
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That'd be cool and everything, but they are probably within their rights to demand America to apologize first for the whole Shah mess. Because that silly thing didn't come out of nowhere.

Just saying.
 
S

Suen

Member
Kolx said:
lol yeah right because it's not like they're rebels who fight BOTH Alassad and ISIS in Syria so fuck them let's make the rebellion in Syria look like it's ISIS vs Alassad so Iran don't look so bad supporting him?
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The same rebels that went on to join Al Nusra, ISIS and other terrorist groups when they were outnumbered? Ok.

Or the FSA that went once to a Shia village and killed a portion of them? Ok.

Sounds like decent people alright.

Assad is shit. I'm saying the guys you and your buddies support, wether directly or indirectly, are worse. I'm not praising either of you, nor am I praising Iran's relation with Syria. It's a good alliance though in the sense that it combats Sunni extremism, something the west and it's Arab allies don't want to see ending even when bombs and alike go off in their own countries (England, Spain, US, France etc)
 
E

Eighty Deuce

Banned
Arkeband said:
It's been pointed out that 'Death to X' is a colloquialism like how 'Fuck X' is not actually suggesting sexing X up.

If America wasn't King Bastard of the planet, you'd have less of this. Look inward before you condemn outward.
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Yeah, we are definitely the bad guys and the world would amazing without us.
 
F

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Eighty Deuce said:
Yeah, we are definitely the bad guys and the world would amazing without us.
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Concentrating on the Iranian case, do you realize that the Islamic Republic of Iran is a thing due to America and the UK playing too much Age of Empires IRL?

Iran is one fuck up that America needs to help undoing and this is a good step towards that end.
 
B

Beelzebufo

Banned
benjipwns said:
Well, except for that whole nuclear armageddon thing wiping out our present creating a time paradox.
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That's why we'll also send back Governor Schwarzenegger to protect the Obama family line.

Funky Papa said:
Concentrating on the Iranian case, do you realize that the Islamic Republic of Iran is a thing due to America and the UK playing too much Age of Empires IRL?

Iran is one fuck up that America needs to help undoing and this is a good step towards that end.
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I think King Bastard is still a bit much haha
 
A

American Eskimo

Banned
So happy to see this.

Does everybody remember before the last election it seemed like the US media was constantly beating a war drum? Like every night they were talking about WHEN the US would bomb Iran, not if.

Fuck you corporate media.

Thank you John Kerry.

Under a McCain administration we probably would have been at war right now.
 
F

Fallout-NL

Member
Still don't really see why they shouldn't be allowed these weapons.

Sure, I'd prefer it if no one had them, but... yeah, why the US and Israel, but not Iran? It's not like either one of them truly represent the powers of good or some bullshit like that.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
Fallout-NL said:
Still don't really see why they shouldn't be allowed these weapons.

Sure, I'd prefer it if no one had them, but... yeah, why the US and Israel, but not Iran? It's not like either one of them truly represent the powers of good or some bullshit like that.
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Because the U.S. has them. And the world's most powerful military.

Might makes right.
 
S

shinobi602

Member
:lol:

CJ4CURwWgAAkVfm.jpg
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Funky Papa said:
Good grief. This isn't even turning Iran into an ally or "supporting" it. That is not going to happen any time soon. America and Iran are going to remain adversaries for a good while. This is about fostering good relations and helping the country to steer into more agreeable positions, so maybe one day that can finally happen.
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Yep. This is about trajectory. It has improved significantly today.

Thanks EU, John Kerry, and Obama for being diplomats more than warmongers.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
I'm wondering what the fuck people who are against making any kind of deal want? Do they think that a war with Iran is feasible. Do they think the current standard wouldn't stop Iran from making a bomb?

Of course the US doesn't trust Iran. That was why the deal was necessary. Israel and their apartheid state can fuck off to infinity
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
Measley said:
Right wing news and radio is going to be amazing today....
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http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/07/munich-for-our-time.php
MUNICH FOR OUR TIME
The big news of the day is the announcement of the deal with Iran by President Obama and Secretary Kerry. The Washington Post provides the text and video of Obama’s announcement here.

Listening to President Obama this morning, without access to the text of the agreement, I found key concessions made against his previously announced minimum criteria concealed in pleasing formulations presented as great accomplishments. ‘Twas a famous victory.

The deal must be the worst ever entered into by the United States. It is certainly “an historic mistake.” Based in part on Obama’s statement itself and in part on previous news accounts, I think the following summary provided by Omri Ceren provides a useful guide.

(1) The Iranian nuclear program will be placed under international sponsorship for R&D – A few weeks ago the AP leaked parts of an annex confirming that a major power would be working with the Iranians to develop next-generation centrifuge technology at the Fordow underground military enrichment bunker. Technically the work won’t be on nuclear material, but the AP noted that “isotope production uses the same technology as enrichment and can be quickly re-engineered to enriching uranium.” The administration had once promised Congress that Iran would be forced to dismantle its centrifuge program. The Iranians refused, so the administration conceded that the Iranians would be allowed to keep their existing centrifuges. Now the international community will be actively sponsoring the development of Iranian nuclear technology. And since the work will be overseen by a great power, it will be off-limits to the kind of sabotage that has kept the Iranian nuclear program in check until now.

(2) The sanctions regime will be shredded – the AP revealed at the beginning of June that the vast majority of the domestic U.S. sanctions regime will be dismantled. The Lausanne factsheet – which played a key role in dampening Congressional criticism to American concessions – had explicitly stated “U.S. sanctions on Iran for terrorism, human rights abuses, and ballistic missiles will remain in place under the deal.” That turns out to have been false. Instead the administration will redefine non-nuclear sanctions as nuclear, so that it can lift them. The Iranians are boasting that sanctions against Iran’s Central Bank, NIT Co., the National Iranian Oil Company, and 800 individuals and entities will be lifted. That’s probably exaggerated and a bit confused – CBI sanctions are statutory, and will probably not be getting “lifted” – but the sense is clear enough.

(3) The U.S. collapsed on the arms embargo – Just a week ago General Dempsey told the Senate Armed Services Committee that “under no circumstances should we relieve pressure on Iran relative to ballistic missile capabilities and arms trafficking.” Now multiple outlets have confirmed that the embargo on conventional weapons will be lifted no later than five years from now, and that the embargo on ballistic missiles will expire in 8 years. No one in the region is going to wait for those embargoes to expire: they’ll rush to build up their stockpiles in anticipation of the sunset.

(4) The U.S. collapsed on anytime-anywhere inspections – The IAEA will get to request access to sensitive sites, the Iranians will get to say no, and then there will be an arbitration board that includes Iran as a member. This concession is particularly damaging politically and substantively because the administration long ago went all-in on verification. The original goal of the talks was to make the Iranians take physical actions that would prevent them from going nuclear if they wanted to: dismantling centrifuges, shuttering facilities, etc. The Iranians said no to those demands, and the Americans backed off. The fallback position relied 100% on verification: yes the Iranians would be physically able to cheat, the argument went, but the cheating would be detected because of an anytime-anywhere inspection regime. That is not what the Americans are bringing home.

(5) The U.S. collapsed on PMDs – This morning the Iranians and the IAEA signed a roadmap for a process that would see Tehran eventually providing access for the IAEA to clear up its concerns. This roadmap differs in no significant way from previous commitments the Iranians have made to the agency, except now Tehran will have received sanctions relief and stabilized its economy. Administration officials will have to look at lawmakers and nonetheless promise that this time the Iranians will give the IAEA what it needs.

UPDATE: The Islamic Republic of Iran has posted the English text of the deal here: “Iran reaffirms that under no circumstances will Iran ever seek, develop or acquire any nuclear weapons.” What a relief!
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S

sandy1297

Member
Cub3h said:
It worked for Osirak before, but obviously it should only be considered as the very last option. I could see something similar happening where Israel gets "carte blanche" to fly over / refuel over / potentially even land in Saudi Arabia for a similar mission.

In the end I'm for whatever option that stops a theological regime with little regard for innocent lives from acquiring nuclear weapons.
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but but ... American already have (and used) nucelar weapons
 
D

dabig2

Member
metalslimer said:
I'm wondering what the fuck people who are against making any kind of deal want? Do they think that a war with Iran is feasible. Do they think the current standard wouldn't stop Iran from making a bomb?

Of course the US doesn't trust Iran. That was why the deal was necessary. Israel and their apartheid state can fuck off to infinity
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They just want to repeat Bush's successes with North Korea when he adopted the same cowboy hardline negotiating tactic of "my way or the highway... to war!"
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
dabig2 said:
They just want to repeat Bush's successes with North Korea when he adopted the same cowboy hardline negotiating tactic of "my way or the highway... to war!"
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And look at Kim Jong-il now. He's merely the Eternal General Secretary of the Worker's Party of Korea and Eternal Chairman of the National Defense Commission.
 
K

Kenshin001

Member
Fallout-NL said:
Still don't really see why they shouldn't be allowed these weapons.

Sure, I'd prefer it if no one had them, but... yeah, why the US and Israel, but not Iran? It's not like either one of them truly represent the powers of good or some bullshit like that.
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Maybe look at the circumstances in which the US and Israel developed nuclear weapons and what would be Iran's motivation.
 
D

dabig2

Member
honestrade said:
Terrible deal...the Iranian regime can't be trusted.
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The United States is far, far, far more untrustworthy than Iran. If anything, the Iranian people there should be more wary of a deal than any American, considering not only our tied past together, but in how the US has treated other countries over the past 50 years.
 
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