Support NeoGAF

[Humdinger]

It'll stop when you stop giving these people money to make games

I know the second picture is Obsidian employees, but do we know what role they play? Please tell me they are marketers or community managers, or maybe graphic artists.

 

[FunkMiller]

I think your original line was that there wasn't a spectrum of how many arms and legs human beings have. Recently someone I vaguely know had to have part of their leg amputated. He's still a human being though.

If a game offered him the choice of letting his avatar represent him, a human being who no longer has two full legs (he's got about one and a half now), I don't think anyone would be rushing to dictionary dot com to demand that the game recategorise him as something other than a human being.

You've obviously not been paying attention to the debate you'd been trying to take part in because you've mistakenly said sex, when you should have said gender elsewhere in the post btw. While sex is a spectrum (intersex people exist), I think that trans people are more commonly found talking about gender, not sex. But I'm not an expert.

The way to think about it is probably to remember that trans is short for transgender.

You didn't even read my posts, did you?

You've massively side stepped the point I was making. Which is, to clarify, that the backlash against pronoun inclusion in video games has been exacerbated by the trans movement's inability to accept biological reality, and their willingness to lambast and insult anyone who disagrees with their position.

This debate is not, and has never just been about gender. And it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Largely because the inability to accept biological fact has been a driving and determining factor in why games like Avowed are facing this kind of backlash for the inclusion of pronouns.

And sex is not - for about the millionth time - on a fucking spectrum

 

[FunkMiller]

What is normal and how far back are we going?

That sex is binary, and about 300,000 years.

 

[chakadave]

Damn the FREE SPEECH ABSOLUTIST in action

He didn’t say that it should be stopped….

 

[SportsFan581]

That sex is binary, and about 300,000 years.

Shit, I hope we'll still have the tech to make my blood pressure meds or I'm really screwed. Though I think I might be in trouble in this scenario anyway.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

You didn't even read my posts, did you?



This debate is not, and has never just been about gender. And it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Largely because the inability to accept biological fact has been a driving and determining factor in why games like Avowed are facing this kind of backlash for the inclusion of pronouns.

And sex is not - for about the millionth time - on a fucking spectrum

I think that trans people do accept biological reality though. They say that their bodies are one sex or another but their gender doesn't fit with that.

 

[chakadave]

The solution is to not buy woke slop, and it seems like people started doing so this year. High profile flop after flop. Publishers are gonna stop it themselves because they want to stay in business eventually.

Agreed

Saying it is unacceptable isn’t a universal belief.

Games generally are made to make a male feel good about doing heroic things.

These people in the above picture don’t understand that desire. It goes back to all sorts of media. From movies to books.

Men like action and adventure.

Women like romance.

This is why it feels so weird when they write a male fantasy.

 

[FunkMiller]

I think that trans people do accept biological reality though. They say that their bodies are one sex or another but their gender doesn't fit with that.

Ah yes. When people like JK Rowling and Richard Dawkins have stated that sex is binary, they have all accepted that position with good grace.

 

[Kdad]

What is normal and how far back are we going?

I asked...no relevant answers yet.

 

[Bernardougf]

I think that trans people do accept biological reality though. They say that their bodies are one sex or another but their gender doesn't fit with that.

Agressive transformative surgery and hormone abuse definitely is not what we in the health care area would call "accepting biology"

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Which is what? The highlighted portion makes it seem like a Japanese LGBTQ person who makes games or Japanese gaming can't pursue a similar representation as the West Independent of how it's occurring in the U.S.

This is not about lgbtq. Have you been reading this thread at all? Have you even been paying any attention at all?

 

[SportsFan581]

I asked...no relevant answers yet.

Even as a liberal myself, I get that there are some things here that are up for debate. The MTF participants in women's contact sports, or maybe some concern about curriculum if parents feel like it could confuse young children, etc. I don't see how the mere accommodation for someone with gender dysphoria in a video game is that big an issue, just use the typical pronouns assigned to the gender of the character you created and move on. Obviously, most people do not experience gender dysphoria, I don't see why we need to demonize the people that do. Let them live their lives in the best way they can while you do the same, it literally doesn't effect you.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Ah yes. When people like JK Rowling and Richard Dawkins have stated that sex is binary, they have all accepted that position with good grace.

Have you got a sort of word blindness? You're insisting that trans people are claiming extra sexes to make your argument work, but as I said in my previous post, I think it's the person's relationship with gender, not sex, which is the defining part of their identity that's at the heart of the matter.

 

[T-0800]

I think that trans people do accept biological reality though. They say that their bodies are one sex or another but their gender doesn't fit with that.

Then lets get rid of gender. Just male and female. Who cares how you decorate the tree as long as you understand that it is in fact a tree.

 

[chakadave]

Ah yes. When people like JK Rowling and Richard Dawkins have stated that sex is binary, they have all accepted that position with good grace.

It isn’t usually trans that have the issue. It is gown lonely women. And white knights.

 

[yogaflame]

I agree. For me, the Force and push for twisted dei and twisted woke agenda especially gender ideology is also wha's killing movie and tv industry. Hopefully and praying with the new political climate. Its about to change.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

Elon and alleged game developer grummz should get together and make a game of their own.

So should neogaf, that will stop all the complaining. Neogaf should also create its own console, PC handheld, PC operating system and graphics card business so they can stop crying about Nvidia, Windows, the Steam Deck/ROG Ally and every modern console.

 

[Kotaro]

Even as a liberal myself, I get that there are some things here that are up for debate. The MTF participants in women's contact sports, or maybe some concern about curriculum if parents feel like it could confuse young children, etc. I don't see how the mere accommodation for someone with gender dysphoria in a video game is that big an issue, just use the typical pronouns assigned to the gender of the character you created and move on. Obviously, most people do not experience gender dysphoria, I don't see why we need to demonize the people that do. Let them live their lives in the best way they can while you do the same, it literally doesn't effect you.

seems like you don't recognize the fundamental problem. The fundamental problem is that sick men with fetish desire to invade female only space, bathroom, changing room, sports, etc.

Now pronouns is the extension mechanism/tool for this sick men. By having self-designated pronouns, they want to normalize self-ID, they want to be able self-designate their own gender regardless what the nature says. So these sick men want to have rights to female-only spaces. And they want the rest of us to normalize it. The more we tolerate this stupid goddamn pronouns the more we normalize this sick behaviour

 

[StreetsofBeige]

seems like you don't recognize the fundamental problem. The fundamental problem is that sick men with fetish desire to invade female only space, bathroom, changing room, sports, etc.

Now pronouns is the extension mechanism/tool for this sick men. By having self-designated pronouns, they want to normalize self-ID, they want to be able self-designate their own gender regardless what the nature says. So these sick men want to have rights to female-only spaces. And they want the rest of us to normalize it. The more we tolerate this stupid goddamn pronouns the more we normalize this sick behaviour

Agreed.

It's an open door for any shenanigans to incur.

Technically, I can self identify as a woman tomorrow and go into women's bathrooms and locker rooms.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Then lets get rid of gender. Just male and female. Who cares how you decorate the tree as long as you understand that it is in fact a tree.

Decorating the tree's external features doesn't tell you about the inside is the point, I think.

 

[chakadave]

Decorating the tree's external features doesn't tell you about the inside is the point, I think.

You can feel what ever you want doesn’t make it reality. Lots of people feel sick and deranged things.

I agree. For me, the Force and push for twisted dei and twisted woke agenda especially gender ideology is also wha's killing movie and tv industry. Hopefully and praying with the new political climate. It’s about to change.

Politics is downstream of culture. The politics change js because of the culture key the people.

 

[Kdad]

Decorating the tree's external features doesn't tell you about the inside is the point, I think.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Its going to gamepass ... theres no money to be made there...

I remember when not long ago, possibly as recently as earlier this year, certain posters here were trying to shove the narrative "Gamepass increases game sales" down our collective throats

If anything that's even worse than wokeness as narratives go because it's a blatant lie that anyone with 1 brain cell could see through

 

[FunkMiller]

Have you got a sort of word blindness? You're insisting that trans people are claiming extra sexes to make your argument work, but as I said in my previous post, I think it's the person's relationship with gender, not sex, which is the defining part of their identity that's at the heart of the matter.

Good grief. If the trans lobby weren’t obsessed with trying to say sex isn’t binary, there would be far less of an issue. Stop ignoring that very basic fact.

 

[Humdinger]

nm, don't want to get into it...

 

[PandaOk]

seems like you don't recognize the fundamental problem. The fundamental problem is that sick men with fetish desire to invade female only space, bathroom, changing room, sports, etc.

Now pronouns is the extension mechanism/tool for this sick men. By having self-designated pronouns, they want to normalize self-ID, they want to be able self-designate their own gender regardless what the nature says. So these sick men want to have rights to female-only spaces. And they want the rest of us to normalize it. The more we tolerate this stupid goddamn pronouns the more we normalize this sick behaviour

How embarrassing for you.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

Amen.

Having disgusting evil insane things like pronouns and other similar crazy shits like thinking it's somehow alright to wake up one day and be a different gender SHOULD have never even be something that was debatable in the first place let alone allowed into movies and games and even worse pushed towards normal sane people. Two genders only.

 

[LaughingStock]

This pronoun stupidity is mostly and american thing. Like the imperial system. It's insanity.

 

[EviLore]

GAF spends the day arguing the intricacies of gender ideology, meanwhile Kojima is out there retweeting a steady stream of Lea Seydoux nudes

 

[kevboard]

This pronoun stupidity is mostly and american thing. Like the imperial system. It's insanity.

but like many things in popular culture, sadly the US is exporting this shit to the rest of the world.

 

[kevboard]

GAF spends the day arguing the intricacies of gender ideology, meanwhile Kojima is out there retweeting a steady stream of Lea Seydoux nudes

he is a man of culture after all

 

[balls of snow]

Made a bit of money riding the Tesla wave but unless he makes his own game studio his opinions are in the ignore tab.

 

[Imtjnotu]

Neither pronouns or a lack of diversity and inclusion in a game offend me.

Then congrats on being an adult

 

[Barakov]

Gender is not a biological function. Gender is a social, psychological, and cultural construct that is developed through socialization. Gender identity is a person's internal sense of self, whether they see themselves as male, female, or another gender. What 'scientific reality' do you think is threatened. Female and male exist. A spectrum also exists according to DSD. Are you stating that the genetic spectrum found in those with DSD should not be labelled as anything other than male or female...i mean...you're asking for science, so here is science. Make sure to read all the linked refrences and not just rely on wiki.

 

[adamsapple]

GAF spends the day arguing the intricacies of gender ideology, meanwhile Kojima is out there retweeting a steady stream of Lea Seydoux nudes

 

[Myths]

But if it’s fantasy then…

 

[bender]

GAF spends the day arguing the intricacies of gender ideology, meanwhile Kojima is out there retweeting a steady stream of Lea Seydoux nudes

 

[MikeM]

I can’t stand this man.

 

[FunkMiller]

GAF spends the day arguing the intricacies of gender ideology, meanwhile Kojima is out there retweeting a steady stream of Lea Seydoux nudes

Bender beat me to it

 

[GHG]

Google "Lèa Seydoux by Thomas Lavelle".

 

[bender]

Google "Lèa Seydoux by Thomas Lavelle".

I prefer AskJeeves.

 

[Kacho]

I can’t stand this man.

Why?

 

[Kotaro]

GAF spends the day arguing the intricacies of gender ideology, meanwhile Kojima is out there retweeting a steady stream of Lea Seydoux nudes

I prefer Sophie Marceau or Eva Green for French actress

 

[SportsFan581]

seems like you don't recognize the fundamental problem. The fundamental problem is that sick men with fetish desire to invade female only space, bathroom, changing room, sports, etc.

Now pronouns is the extension mechanism/tool for this sick men. By having self-designated pronouns, they want to normalize self-ID, they want to be able self-designate their own gender regardless what the nature says. So these sick men want to have rights to female-only spaces. And they want the rest of us to normalize it. The more we tolerate this stupid goddamn pronouns the more we normalize this sick behaviour

The sick men and all that is just hogwash, by any statistical measure, IMO. It's not like there are cops positioned at public restrooms, if some sick man wants to walk in the women's bathroom and assault someone they can do that without a dress already. If they aren't really trans, the dress gives them very limited cover (the Freddie Mercury with a vacuum) and if they are (Blaire White, etc.) that's a whole lot to go through and a lot of dollars spent to reach that end. Going even further than that there is historical record of men living as women in the roman empire days, and the first gender reassignment surgery seems like it was back in 1906. Somehow, we've managed to get by.

I'll leave it there since political discussions are kind of out of bounds on here and obviously I have a more liberal/libertarian mindset. We can play madden together or something just fine, but consensus on this issue is unlikely.

If you want to switch over to more troubling stances of the far-left like abolishing the police, aggressive safe spacing, attacks on free speech from either extreme, etc. we can probably find some common ground.

 

[GigaBowser]

Is this really a hill worth dying on in gaming? There's so much other stuff to rally against in gaming this is legit the lowest hanging fruit I've ever seen.

I want jarpanese men to make my gaming nooooooot blue hair women

 

[TheDreadBaron]

Soo, you can make a male character and have NPCs refer to you as he/him, or make a female character and be referred to as she/her, but people are upset because there's more options other people might use that they don't like? There's gotta be a word for that, I'll just call it silly.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Damn look at those tittyballs

 

[darrylgorn]

So should neogaf, that will stop all the complaining. Neogaf should also create its own console, PC handheld, PC operating system and graphics card business so they can stop crying about Nvidia, Windows, the Steam Deck/ROG Ally and every modern console.

Won't work. We'll still have pronouns. People will complain about it until they die.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Meh I just don't care either way.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

It's not "killing art" but it is silly. The idea that some game set in a fantasy realm would have pronouns that just so happen to align with the developers' social media feed is ridiculous. It's forced. There's absolutely no doubt about that.

You guys think that people that identify as literal cats and dragons is just bullshit that will go away? That's what people thought about "they, them" in the beginning. At what fucking point do we draw the line because the absurdity isn't stopping where it is now. The cat people will absolutely demand they're identified as those things and we will have to follow the rules. Wait and see. In the woke culture absolute absurdity is only 6 months from reality.

This.

It's why everything needs a limit or things will just go out of control. And the limit should be put before insane evil disgusting shits like this even reached this point in the first place. Fallout New Vegas, One Punch Man, Berserk and similar are good limits to put things. They got gay etc characters but they didn't push anything but were rather just another set of cool characters in a cool story. Nobody or at least 99% didn't complain or dislike any of those elements in them and that should have been the limit. Problem starts once they push the limit below those which allowed more and more insane sick and twisted evil shit to start being normalized and pushed from that point on. And now we got a bunch of crazy shit that are obviously mental illness being seen as normal which should have never even been debatable or seen as normal in the first place.