Support NeoGAF

[SmokedMeat]

I've watched dozens of previews, even the 2x90 minutes playthrough. Never seen a quest heading into some pronoun or woke agenda. Until this thread with the screenshot of the character sheet, I wouldn't have known.

If they have an agenda to shove down our throats like Dragon Age Veilguard, then they're masters of hiding it. Or further down the line in the game, but I mean, typically you can sniff from the beginning a game that was designed around these agendas.

I haven’t seen anything either. If it’s not being brought up in the writing and only relegated to a character screen then I’m not bothered.

 

[kindaGoth]

It’s not “horrifying” for anyone necessarily. It just lets us know where their priorities most likely lie in terms of everything from hiring practices to the fiction of the game. It’s not a death kneel but it’s a red flag if you have any awareness of context and patterns in entertainment.

You start to wonder if they hire the best people to make the game or if they hired the most “diverse” group they could find to make the game. And then you have to question if that’s the best way to make a quality product.

All this from pronouns? Well yeah, that’s how defined the lines in our culture war have become and we have seen how that can effect a mainstream piece of entertainment.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Modern Problems require Modern Solutions

 

[adamsapple]

I haven’t seen anything either. If it’s not being brought up in the writing and only relegated to a character screen then I’m not bothered.

No one has, this is all just an overblown reaction based on the one picture with the giant superimposed thumb.

 

[samoilaaa]

Remedys last two games were Alan Wake 2 and Control.......what am i missing?
Alan Wake 2 was the shit and Control was my GOTY of 2019.

Veilguard I havent actually given a chance, I didnt like the artstyle or the changes to the gameplay loop, but I plan on giving it a chance during the Christmas holiday ill judge it myself.
Concord was a damn bomb from the get go, even if it had nothing but macho white men, its a game no one wanted.....not because it was woke but cuz it was like 8 years too late on release.

cmon dont bullshit , when the game was announced threre was huge hype and once they said that the game has a second protagonist the hype lowered then the SBI stuff came out and the hype went downhill

if the game had only alan as protagonist and no SBI stuff the game would have sold alot better

 

[Jack Videogames]

Can orcs kiss? You seem well up on orc lore

Me am not that kind of orc

 

[NickFire]

No one has, this is all just an overblown reaction based on the one picture with the giant superimposed thumb.

You might think it’s overblown. That’s fine. A lot of people are just sick of this nonsense though. And their opinions matter just as much as anyone else’s.

Honestly, I think this is another example of Xbox having no one capable of doing anything to make its product better beyond spending enterprise money on acquisitions. A bold leader could have used this to get positive word of mouth for the brand with the people who pay the bills. Tell the devs get it out, let one of the asroturfers leak it, and voila positive word of mouth with people who keep refusing product after product because of DEI. But I guess it’s hard to win awards from the journalist crowd by catering to the audience.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Having pronouns isn’t a deal breaker. It’s when it’s all up in your face is when it is.

Starfield had pronouns and I can’t think of a moment that it mattered. Howarts Legacy had them too. Didn’t make that game worse.

 

[adamsapple]

You might think it’s overblown. That’s fine. A lot of people are just sick of this nonsense though. And their opinions matter just as much as anyone else’s.

No one's opinion is invalid, I'm pointing out how people have likened this to 'evil' or insert any synonym when we don't even know the extent in this case, yet.

Is it going to be like Dragon Age's Taash stuff? Or is it just going to be something relegated to the character creation and stat screen with only minimal impact on how characters refer to you like Baldurs Gate 3, Hogwarts, Starfield etc? We simply do not know that.

 

[RavageX]

How'd that work out for dragon age?

Oh right, it didn't.

That went well past pronouns.

Not only did they mess up how they introduced the game with the first trailer, going into detail about their "changes" didn't help either.

 

[Kacho]

No one's opinion is invalid, I'm pointing out how people have likened this to 'evil' or insert any synonym when we don't even know the extent in this case, yet.

Is it going to be like Dragon Age's Taash stuff? Or is it just going to be something relegated to the character creation and stat screen with only minimal impact on how characters refer to you like Baldurs Gate 3, Hogwarts, Starfield etc? We simply do not know that.

Pronouns are visible every time you pull up a character sheet. It’s stupid.

 

[Kvally]

Pronouns are visible every time you pull up a character sheet

 

[Kacho]

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean

 

[Peroroncino]

greaaaat... ;/

well I'll gamepass it, if I smell any more wokeness I'll just delete it

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Pronouns are visible every time you pull up a character sheet. It’s stupid.

 

[Roberts]

One of the unpleasant things I forgot to write in 'The most pleasant and the most unpleasant event in 2024 for you' thread is that we focus too much on this shit. It just comes off as childish and I can't comprehend why many of you get triggered by this. Isn't it way more important to discuss the game itself and how well it achieves its own goals?

 

[JackMcGunns]

The fact that it has pronouns is not an issue, the question is, does it have They/Them?

 

[John Bilbo]

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean

I think it means that if you are a white dog with blue fur you are supposed to dry your tears with single dollar bills while shaking a bit.

 

[Kacho]

The fact that it has pronouns is not an issue, the question is, does it have They/Them?

Does a bear shit in the woods?

 

[Black_Stride]

cmon dont bullshit , when the game was announced threre was huge hype and once they said that the game has a second protagonist the hype lowered then the SBI stuff came out and the hype went downhill

if the game had only alan as protagonist and no SBI stuff the game would have sold alot better

Yeah you are totally right.
The game went from 1% disliking it, to 2% disliking it once Saga was revealed, to 3% disliking it by launch when the trailers heavily featured Saga.
Total night and day difference once people found out about Saga.

The sales were so hurt, not because the game didnt have a physical or Steam release, not because it released at a heavy time (Spider-Man 2, Assassins Creed Mirage, Forza Motorsport, Mario Wonder, Like a Dragon Gaiden, Mortal Kombat 1, Phantom Liberty)..........................but because of Saga......damn dat hoe for tanking the sales of Alan Wake 2.

Seriously.
Anti-Woke culture is reaching a fever pitch.

Not that it mattered in the grand scheme, they still had the cash to finish the two expansions and start working on Control 2 and Federal Bureau of Control.

 

[nemiroff]

I've watched dozens of previews, even the 2x90 minutes playthrough. Never seen a quest heading into some pronoun or woke agenda. Until this thread with the screenshot of the character sheet, I wouldn't have known.

If they have an agenda to shove down our throats like Dragon Age Veilguard, then they're masters of hiding it. Or further down the line in the game, but I mean, typically you can sniff from the beginning a game that was designed around these agendas.

Yeah, I think you're right. The funny thing is, when I started playing the game, even though I don't like the concept of these pronouns, I probably wouldn't have noticed or just grimaced and moved on.

Anti-Woke culture is reaching a fever pitch.

It's not surprising that we're seeing an overcorrection these days after the intense woke push from a few years ago. I had hoped one side would try to break the cycle. It's like an annoying, giant fucking harmonic oscillator.

 

[samoilaaa]

Yeah you are totally right.
The game went from 1% disliking it, to 2% disliking it once Saga was revealed, to 3% disliking it by launch when the trailers heavily featured Saga.
Total night and day difference once people found out about Saga.

The sales were so hurt, not because the game didnt have a physical or Steam release, not because it released at a heavy time (Spider-Man 2, Assassins Creed Mirage, Forza Motorsport, Mario Wonder, Like a Dragon Gaiden, Mortal Kombat 1, Phantom Liberty)..........................but because of Saga......damn dat hoe for tanking the sales of Alan Wake 2.

Seriously.
Anti-Woke culture is reaching a fever pitch.

Not that it mattered in the grand scheme, they still had the cash to finish the two expansions and start working on Control 2 and Federal Bureau of Control.

i dont care about your likes/dislikes comparison , people said in forums that they didnt buy the game because of woke stuff

just check the alanwake subreddit when the 2nd protagonist was announced

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Yeah you are totally right.
The game went from 1% disliking it, to 2% disliking it once Saga was revealed, to 3% disliking it by launch when the trailers heavily featured Saga.
Total night and day difference once people found out about Saga.

The sales were so hurt, not because the game didnt have a physical or Steam release, not because it released at a heavy time (Spider-Man 2, Assassins Creed Mirage, Forza Motorsport, Mario Wonder, Like a Dragon Gaiden, Mortal Kombat 1, Phantom Liberty)..........................but because of Saga......damn dat hoe for tanking the sales of Alan Wake 2.

Seriously.
Anti-Woke culture is reaching a fever pitch.

Not that it mattered in the grand scheme, they still had the cash to finish the two expansions and start working on Control 2 and Federal Bureau of Control.

Another thing too is that the franchise itself isnt even a big seller. Name one person the past decade begging for an AW2 sequel.

AW1 supposedly eventually sold 4-5M copies, but that was after around 12 years including bargain binning and even getting some sales boosts being bundled with 360 consoles.

So even if AW was the star character, this game wouldnt be a big seller anyway. I dont think any Remedy game has been a giant success. I think their biggest selling game might be Max Payne 3 from the 360/PS3 era.

Their games are similar to Hellblade. A lot of production values, plot and cut scenes, slow paced limited gameplay. Not the type of game that gets tons of sales. So to me, scraping up a few million copies sounds about right.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

i dont care about your likes/dislikes comparison , people said in forums that they didnt buy the game because of woke stuff

just check the alanwake subreddit when the 2nd protagonist was announced

That makes sense too. When a main character is swapped in for someone else you'll get some pushback.

If Spiderman changed from a young white guy to a Latino woman, or Blade got changed from a Black guy to a White girl, you'd get criticism too. Or if a Spiderman movie had a major plot change to be all about Aunt May, people would be pissed too.

Best way to limit negativity on this issue is dont change the narrative or characters too much from the past game or movie and people wont have that to complain against.

 

[Eesha]

PRAUNOUNS???? IN MY GAEM?

that's it, i will proceed to use my most powerful powar bestowned by chuds:

Nothing at all.

 

[RedC]

So even if AW was the star character, this game wouldnt be a big seller anyway. I dont think any Remedy game has been a giant success. I think their biggest selling game might be Max Payne 3 from the 360/PS3 era.

Remedy only served as consultants for Max Payne 3 and Rockstar Studios developed it.

 

[Stuart360]

Thank god for Gamepass, thats all i'll say.

 

[VideoGameEnjoyer]

People have become completely unhinged with this stuff..

 

[Buggy Loop]

That makes sense too. When a main character is swapped in for someone else you'll get some pushback.

If Spiderman changed from a young white guy to a Latino woman, or Blade got changed from a Black guy to a White girl, you'd get criticism too. Or if a Spiderman movie had a major plot change to be all about Aunt May, people would be pissed too.

Best way to limit negativity on this issue is dont change the narrative or characters too much from the past game or movie and people wont have that to complain against.

Sony has put all the cards on the table to erase Peter Parker for the future.

Spider-Man 2's Writers Break Down the Game's Big Spoilers

Insomniac Games' Brittney Morris and Ben Arfmann on creating the twists and turns throughout Marvel's Spider-Man 2' s story campaign.

gizmodo.com

I imagine this place will be in a turmoil when everything going forward is Miles Morales.

 

[_Ex_]

I see the globalist pysop designed to weaken western culture continues. To any game developer/publisher who puts this shit in their game, know that my wallet's pronouns are fuck/you.

 

[Majormaxxx]

GWGB

 

[Kacho]

People have become completely unhinged with this stuff..

What should we do instead?

 

[VideoGameEnjoyer]

What should we do instead?

Nothing...?

Play and form opinions on games based on their merits individually, and not based on if they have some text in a player menu that you have to squint to see?

 

[VideoGameEnjoyer]

This guy was a punchline a year ago. Now you all do your best impersonations.

 

[Buggy Loop]

The fact that it has pronouns is not an issue, the question is, does it have They/Them?

This made me try to look for the character creation in the game and no success so far, but the build from 3 months ago didn't have pronouns

From this video timestamped

So far I haven't seen anyone going through the character creation. I imagine one of the previews must have made their characters are the protagonists don't all look the same. No mention of it anywhere though

But interesting that just 3 months ago it had no pronouns. There's no way that they changed the story/narrative/quests/dialogues to change the agenda in 3 months. So I think this goes hand in hand that the game doesn't seem to be designed around this and not a single video seems to go into woke agenda ala Dragon age veilguard.

This is probably a marketing team at Microsoft that shoved the "choice" down the developers' throat to avoid a backlash or something, or to imitate Baldur's Gate 3. Funny that nowadays its now backlash. I can't imagine how much it sucks for devs to walk on eggshells, between the triggered media throwing you under the bus for not being inclusive and the asmongold army meme'ing on twitch to cancel anything that has a hint of woke.

 

[The Stig]

Everything you said here is completely false. Why don't you do some research before spouting off? Thanks for confirming who the actual clown is.

are you telling me he designed anything in any tesla car? (again apart from the cybertruck body lol) are you suggesting he designed anything related to space x?

and are you going to go even further and tell me he was the brains behind paypal? Go on, double down.

he's a clown

edit - a rich clown

 

[light2x]

I just don't know why this completely unnecessary thing has found its way in most modern AAA games of today when 10 years ago you couldn't find one game with "pronouns".

 

[The Stig]

It’s not “horrifying” for anyone necessarily. It just lets us know where their priorities most likely lie in terms of everything from hiring practices

yeah, so, what?

you're joining dots in the wrong order here. you are assuming.

 

[Moochi]

The pronoun thing wouldn't be a big deal if that's all it was. But it's been a decade of this. Simple pattern recognition is all all you need to identify warning signs that other parts of the game will be tainted. This is a cultural signal. And the culture that it comes from is one that does not glorify hard work or quality criticism. It isn't willing to suffer to create art. It doesn't take risks. It wants acceptance of mediocrity. It rages when it doesn't get then praise it thinks it deserves and would rather "fix" the people who didn't like their game than fix the game itself.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

The fact that it has pronouns is not an issue, the question is, does it have They/Them?

Why would you need to list pronouns if they weren't including they/them in the options?

Pronouns is a canary in the coalmine. You know what their mindset was making the game, and can expect more SBI-ish stuff in the game.
It's not just people freaking out about seeing pronouns.

 

[Drake]

I mean, I see nothing wrong with pointing this out and giving people more information especially when it comes to spending their hard earned money. A lot of people don't like this sort of stuff. If they choose not to buy it when developers decide to include this in their games then that's their choice. It's one of the great aspects of living in a free society.

 

[DVDRick]

guess those "developers" don't get some of this from me

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I mean, I see nothing wrong with pointing this out and giving people more information especially when it comes to spending their hard earned money. A lot of people don't like this sort of stuff. If they choose not to buy it when developers decide to include this in their games then that's their choice. It's one of the great aspects of living in a free society.

Exactly. I'm not going to buy/play South of Midnight cause Compulsion has a racist community manager and it speaks to the mindset of the studio. I don't even know if SBI did anything to make that game crap, yet.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

I think it's mainly that all companions are pansexual, you can romance and make love with them however you like regardless your character genders. I don't really mind as you can fuck more than just humanoids, you do it with fiends, bear, and even fucking mind flayer. But I do think old school gender-locked romance added more depth and authenticity to the characters, like in OG dragon age or mass effect.

Even having the option to fuck a bear is plain disgusting. way different than getting it on with say a alien or succubus chick etc.

I really don't have a problem with that. Keeps everyone happy. Now if Gale started dressing in drag and telling me he is now "she" then we got a major problem.

This.

i dont care about your likes/dislikes comparison , people said in forums that they didnt buy the game because of woke stuff

just check the alanwake subreddit when the 2nd protagonist was announced

Don't even bother even if you are right cause those poster secretly support this evil shit. Not even worth replying to them.

The pronoun thing wouldn't be a big deal if that's all it was. But it's been a decade of this. Simple pattern recognition is all all you need to identify warning signs that other parts of the game will be tainted. This is a cultural signal. And the culture that it comes from is one that does not glorify hard work or quality criticism. It isn't willing to suffer to create art. It doesn't take risks. It wants acceptance of mediocrity. It rages when it doesn't get then praise it thinks it deserves and would rather "fix" the people who didn't like their game than fix the game itself.

Yeah 10 years ago I was still among the neutral or tried to be that didn't let these shit get to me but it's been a long time now and more and more of these sick disgusting evil shit are being shoved so I'm no longer neutral about this. And over these past 10 years you'll see a lot of folks who never used to have problems with this are now hating on it and rightfully so. The evil side definitely aren't helping themselves as the more they push the more hated they become instead of the other way around.

 

[Zacfoldor]

Sideshow Phil

 

[Rockman33]

Maybe they just need an option in the beginning to turn on/off pronouns. Would that make everyone happy?

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

Maybe they just need an option in the beginning to turn on/off pronouns. Would that make everyone happy?

I'll be happy when all woke crap is in an expensive DLC pack.

 

[Rockman33]

I'll be happy when all woke crap is in an expensive DLC pack.

Imagine the blowback if they put pronouns behind a paywall. lol. Would be such a troll move.

 

[kindaGoth]

yeah, so, what?

you're joining dots in the wrong order here. you are assuming.

I explained “so what” in the rest of my post.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

Imagine the blowback if they put pronouns behind a paywall. lol. Would be such a troll move.

I actually expect the opposite to happen one day. Like pay $10 to take out pronouns and swap rainbow flags with American flags . . . then the devs will be pissed seeing how many people actually pay for it.