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[feynoob]

So are you asking me a question or insulting me under the pretext of a question?

It's not insult, I am just surprised that you are ignoring the most important part. MS needed to invest on their brand, they didn't. Phil took a brand which MS ignored internally.

Phil had control of Xbox as an overseer for two years before Matt even left and took his spot less than a week after he did. He had control of Xbox for 4 years as top brass and 2 years as 2nd from the top overseeing studios before he he got more responsibilities.

Phil didn't have authority. Don mattrick is the one who had authority during that time. By the time Phil took over the responsibly, he had tons of issue to fix.
From bad Xbox image, to expensive priced system which was weaker than the PS4.

You're acting like Phil was some new guy with no influence thrown into the position at random. You and OP are overlooking the fact that Phil is the one who delayed removing Kinect as a bundle for the Xbox One, and making the bad timed exclusive choices with the wrong games.

I can give you this part. Entire MS is to blame for this, and him included.

He destroyed the image of the console further by choosing the broken Assassin's Creed Unity as the leading holiday game bundled with the console, which hurt the brands reputation as everyone ran to buy it at it's cheap holiday price, souring many. He is the one who wasted money on several dead-end games like Quantum Break and released them unfinished, he is the one that created the modern term "console exclusive" to cover-up the lack of actual exclusives, he is the one that slow-walked addressing the Halo Master Chief Collection disaster, and we all know how that turned out. He is also the one who pushed the "did you see it?" Titanfall PR.

This was don mattrick fault.
If he actually invested on first party studios, none of this would have happened.
Xbox was forced all kind of bad deals, due to how bad first party studios were.

Phil isn't blameless either.

He is also the one who pulled away from VR after promising it, he is the one who still tried to keep Kinect around after removing it from bundles, including spending money on deals for late kinect software releases up until 2017, 3 years after Kinect was no longer sold with every Xbox One. He is the one who pushed Cortana voice commands on the Xbox One in 2016, he is the one that caused Xbox to fall behind on indies despite the 360 starting the modern Indie gaming industry, and had to make a new program to catch up with Sony on indies. He is the one who made the then unpopular decision to push releasing Xbox games on PC because the Xbox One had no traction in 2016.

Why don't you list the actual Xbox problems, during his era?
Like the lack of MS involvement on the brand?
The lack of investment from MS itself?
Or how about the lack of MS to actually invest in their brand without needing Phil at all?

The guy got a sinking ship, and actually put in a position where gamers want Xbox now.

I am not absolving him all his problems. I am pointing the fingers at the people who put Xbox in that situation, and that person is not Phil.

Keep in mind that MS actually wanted to shutdown Xbox and sell them. That was the situation of Xbox one.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstec...ned-xbox-brand-after-the-xbox-one-launch/amp/

 

[Henry Panic]

It's not insult, I am just surprised that you are ignoring the most important part. MS needed to invest on their brand, they didn't. Phil took a brand which MS ignored internally.


Phil didn't have authority. Don mattrick is the one who had authority during that time. By the time Phil took over the responsibly, he had tons of issue to fix.
From bad Xbox image, to expensive priced system which was weaker than the PS4.


I can give you this part. Entire MS is to blame for this, and him included.


This was don mattrick fault.
If he actually invested on first party studios, none of this would have happened.
Xbox was forced all kind of bad deals, due to how bad first party studios were.

Phil isn't blameless either.


Why don't you list the actual Xbox problems, during his era?
Like the lack of MS involvement on the brand?
The lack of investment from MS itself?
Or how about the lack of MS to actually invest in their brand without needing Phil at all?

The guy got a sinking ship, and actually put in a position where gamers want Xbox now.

I am not absolving him all his problems. I am pointing the fingers at the people who put Xbox in that situation, and that person is not Phil.

Keep in mind that MS actually wanted to shutdown Xbox and sell them. That was the situation of Xbox one.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstec...ned-xbox-brand-after-the-xbox-one-launch/amp/

All you're doing is deflecting blame. Phil was in charge of studios, he was there when new ones were added before the Xbox One launched.

Everything I listed are things Phil did in power. The Xbox One brand could have shaken off the reveal because they turned back the clock before launch, but he was in control the whole time, Matt was long gone.

Microsoft had nothing to do with Phil choosing to make Assassin's Creed Unity the headline bundle for the holidays. He chose the game because he thought it would be a good move and overhyped it, so much so he ignored negative previews and overshipped the Unity bundle in multiple countries along with a price cut because he was trying to make Xbox One catch up to the PS4 by any means.

The result of that was millions buying Xbox One for AC: Unity and having a sour taste, several on social media were talking about returns.

You can't blame MS for any of that, Phil did that, Phil did Titanfall PR (not the deal), Phil did Screamride, Phil did Shadow Tomb Raider for $100 million, Phil did Cortana voice commands, Phil kept dead Kinect going for another 3 years, Phil did Evolve, Phil did Black Desert, Phil did Super Lucky's Tale, Phil kept smart glass going after it clearly failed, and Phil had to explain to people confused what "console launch exclusive" meant.

I still remember when Scorpio launched people were complaining about the narrator saying "console launch exclusive" before each game, and realizing Scorpio wasn't launching with any real exclusives period. That was when Phil got even more money to spend on the gaming division.

You can't simply write this off and pretend Phil was on his first day at the job.

If Phil had $100 million to spend on Tomb Raider, $500 million to spend on other timed exclusives and the Scorpio console, millions for Scream Ride and Quantum Break, over $100 million fixing Halo MCC, and over $200 million in Halo 5 marketing, development, and server maintenance, millions for voice commands with Cortana in multiple languages, and millions to Remedy for Quantum Break 'tv show', then it's silly to believe Microsoft wasn't investing in Xbox.

He could have used all that money and more on something more practical and beneficial to the brand. He had been in charge since the launch of the Xbox One, even a little before then. Then previous to that, he was overseer of studios second in command.

Bringing up that the Xbox brand was on the chopping block In 2014 doesn't negate the fact he was in charge and made dumb decisions that hurt the brand even more AFTER he stopped Xbox from being chopped. It's 2022 bro. 2013 was almost a decade ago.

The guy saw the problems with Kinect, and took it out of the box selling the console by itself. But still for another 3 years, spent millions keeping Kinect alive and making deals with devs to release games on it, including one of their own. Who's to blame for that? Who decided to spend all that money on a barely used accessory?

You're right, it's not all his fault but you have to be naive to not realize he was the primary source of the problem, and still is.

If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Redneckerz]

You posted directly in them,

Really? Show me. Because i am not that active.

you aren't adding anything here.

Neither are you with you every post outright refuting what anyone says, so come again?

If you don't like the thread then I'm not sure why you posted.

I told you, you should have read that.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

I think when most people talk about the first party output dropping, they mean 2016 - 2020. When playstation had 2-3 big titles a year and xbox had like a forza and gears.

"2nd half of 360" wouldn't be Xbox One though.

It's a very well known thing that around 2013~2014, MS management were seriously considering shuttering the Xbox brand altogether.

It was 2014, and that has nothing to do with games and Phil doing poorly with them or gaming studios, that is a defense that requires moving the goal posts and trying to switch the topic just like the other thread, there seems to be know one able to defend Phil on games without moving the goal posts, that tells you all you need to know.

Even you along with him, have went after games at Microsoft, the fact that this isn't an issue until you compare Phil to any of his predecessors says all you need to know.

You are blind as fuck, if you can't actually see the games those studios made.

You don't know what the majority of those studios would have made, because many of them didn't get a chance to put out a game. You're making things up. that's the part of this Phil defense that is the most disturbing, you have to lie to defend him.

fixing that Xbox disaster is now being called destroying it.

Because it's a fact, he had 20 studios ready, and he spend 3 years destroying most of them or deconverting them away from games. Including letting some games go, and even YOU posted he regretted some of the closures, but for some reason you aren't reading your own posts. YOU even admitted what Phil called a "misstep" closing a studio. He had some questions about several closures actually, because he made them without planning ahead or thinking about he talent he was removing.

Living in bubble seems nice.

What imaginary major game releases from the acquisitions you think released this year in 2022? Zero.

Kinetic sport is rare most successful game.

Yeah, it was.

Dude didn't even bother expanding his 1st party studios.

Increased studios from 15 to 20 the same year Xbox One came out earlier. You just say stuff without checking.

May I remind you of what they thought of Xbox?

The TV thing is out of context and has nothing to do with games or game studios because Microsoft already announced that games would be at E3 and the reveal was to get non-gaming stuff out the way. The trolls and fanboys are what made that TV thing stick and people to get confused about it being what the long-term controversy was actually about, and it was about check-in policies, kinect ID, and used games, all of which were reversed before launch.

Considering you seem to call yourself an Xbox fan, the fact you're using a anti-Xbox fan talking point to defend Spencer is nothing more than ridiculous and self-destructive to your own argument. Which BTW, there isn't much of one.

Once again you try to defend Phil in a games/game studio discussion with something that has nothing to do with either (and out of context) which only makes it clear you can't actually defend his actions. Phil made his mistakes over years, not one day, you can't blame things on Don and Phil "inheriting" years after the "inheritance" that doesn't make anysense.

He destroyed studios with no replacement plan, you won't address that, he got rid of talent, you won't address that, he purposefully let go of COD rom his OWN words because he wanted to focus on FP and never did, you never address that, he cancelled a bunch of game projects without reason given, you won't address that.

Even YOU admit he said (probably unintentionally) that he regretted a closure, if you look at his Twitter he regretted several mistakes he made. But you are pretending that never happened.

From leading produce that used to be part of Xbox FP,


News from 2017, https://gamingbolt.com/crackdown-3s...ic-problem-microsoft-is-facing/comment-page-1

The Xbox's state of exclusives and first party games is alarming.​

Microsoft Game Studios has been hit by constant delays, cancellations, closures and more this generation. Studios they have worked with, such as Insomniac and Remedy, have moved on from wanting to work exclusively with them – in Remedy’s case, after a decade long relationship of exclusivity – major games have released after long delays and been half baked and undercooked, such as ReCore and Quantum Break, major studios like Lionhead have been closed, and multiple major games have dragged on in development for years before being cancelled eventually- such as Scalebound, Fable Legends, and the Phantom Dust sequel we were promised (we ended up getting a remaster of the original Xbox game instead).

Further evidence of how bad things have gotten can be gleaned from the fact that of the big major exclusives for Xbox One announced for next year – Sea of Thieves, State of Decay 2, Crackdown 3, and Ori and the Will of the Wisps – three were originally intended for release this year and are only releasing next year after being delayed; meanwhile one was announced all the way back in 2014 (Crackdown), one in 2015 (Sea of Thieves), one in 2016 (State of Decay), and one in 2017 (Ori), which reveals the problem right away- games are taking far too long to come out, getting repeatedly delayed, and all the while, new games are not being announced. The major upcoming exclusives for Xbox, not counting the annual Forza cycle, have included Crackdown and Sea of Thieves for years now. It’s getting a bit frustrating for Xbox fans.

At some point you have to throw the "he did nothing wrong and only inherited problems" in the trash when the facts come out. We are still in the same slump NOW in 2022, and in fact won't see any fruits "maybe" until 2023, assuming that Phil doesn't push for more delays or cancellations, again.

This has been going on the same way since Phil started pushed his own management and idea going into 2015. In 2017 and 2019 the above article is exactly the same, in 2020 and 2022 nothing has changed.

 

[feynoob]

"2nd half of 360" wouldn't be Xbox One though.



It was 2014, and that has nothing to do with games and Phil doing poorly with them or gaming studios, that is a defense that requires moving the goal posts and trying to switch the topic just like the other thread, there seems to be know one able to defend Phil on games without moving the goal posts, that tells you all you need to know.

Even you along with him, have went after games at Microsoft, the fact that this isn't an issue until you compare Phil to any of his predecessors says all you need to know.



You don't know what the majority of those studios would have made, because many of them didn't get a chance to put out a game. You're making things up. that's the part of this Phil defense that is the most disturbing, you have to lie to defend him.



Because it's a fact, he had 20 studios ready, and he spend 3 years destroying most of them or deconverting them away from games. Including letting some games go, and even YOU posted he regretted some of the closures, but for some reason you aren't reading your own posts. YOU even admitted what Phil called a "misstep" closing a studio. He had some questions about several closures actually, because he made them without planning ahead or thinking about he talent he was removing.



What imaginary major game releases from the acquisitions you think released this year in 2022? Zero.



Yeah, it was.



Increased studios from 15 to 20 the same year Xbox One came out earlier. You just say stuff without checking.



The TV thing is out of context and has nothing to do with games or game studios because Microsoft already announced that games would be at E3 and the reveal was to get non-gaming stuff out the way. The trolls and fanboys are what made that TV thing stick and people to get confused about it being what the long-term controversy was actually about, and it was about check-in policies, kinect ID, and used games, all of which were reversed before launch.

Considering you seem to call yourself an Xbox fan, the fact you're using a anti-Xbox fan talking point to defend Spencer is nothing more than ridiculous and self-destructive to your own argument. Which BTW, there isn't much of one.

Once again you try to defend Phil in a games/game studio discussion with something that has nothing to do with either (and out of context) which only makes it clear you can't actually defend his actions. Phil made his mistakes over years, not one day, you can't blame things on Don and Phil "inheriting" years after the "inheritance" that doesn't make anysense.

He destroyed studios with no replacement plan, you won't address that, he got rid of talent, you won't address that, he purposefully let go of COD rom his OWN words because he wanted to focus on FP and never did, you never address that, he cancelled a bunch of game projects without reason given, you won't address that.

Even YOU admit he said (probably unintentionally) that he regretted a closure, if you look at his Twitter he regretted several mistakes he made. But you are pretending that never happened.

From leading produce that used to be part of Xbox FP,


News from 2017, https://gamingbolt.com/crackdown-3s...ic-problem-microsoft-is-facing/comment-page-1


At some point you have to throw the "he did nothing wrong and only inherited problems" in the trash when the facts come out. We are still in the same slump NOW in 2022, and in fact won't see any fruits "maybe" until 2023, assuming that Phil doesn't push for more delays or cancellations, again.

This has been going on the same way since Phil started pushed his own management and idea going into 2015. In 2017 and 2019 the above article is exactly the same, in 2020 and 2022 nothing has changed.

All could have fixed, if MS didnt change the direction of Xbox to TV. Something you dont want to admit.
MS were capable of strengthening their 1st party during xbox 360, yet they ignored, something you dont want to admit.

Ask yourself this question again. If MS invested on xbox during OG xbox and X360 building their 1st party and not focus on TV, would xbox one situation exist?

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

All could have fixed, if MS didnt change the direction of Xbox to TV.

They didn't. Again, for a self-claimed Xbox fan you use a lot of fabricated anti-Xbox talking points, They had more games than Sony did at the start of the Xbox One, got praised for it, and had wall to wall games at E3. Any TV stuff that wasn't an optional feature was reversed, or was already a small minimal option.

Ask yourself this question again. If MS invested on xbox during OG xbox and X360 building their 1st party and not focus on TV, would xbox one situation exist?

Ask yourself, why keep being dishonest about how things actually happened?

15-20 game studios in 2013, wall-to wall games at E3, a year and a half of praise for Xbox having games compared to the PS4, praised time exclusives, or 2nd party exclusives, along with FP exclusives, long dead franchises always wanted by fans was also revived, your whole timeline of events is fictional.

Games and Studios didn't become a problem until Phil got involved, and so did the coverage and praise for games, and now we are still waiting for games.

 

[feynoob]

They didn't. Again, for a self-claimed Xbox fan you use a lot of fabricated anti-Xbox talking points, They had more games than Sony did at the start of the Xbox One, got praised for it, and had wall to wall games at E3. Any TV stuff that wasn't an optional feature was reversed, or was already a small minimal option.

I am not xbox fan.
Second, ms DESTROYED xbox with that TV direction.

Ask yourself, why keep being dishonest about how things actually happened?

15-20 game studios in 2013, wall-to wall games at E3, a year and a half of praise for Xbox having games compared to the PS4, praised time exclusives, or 2nd party exclusives, along with FP exclusives, long dead franchises always wanted by fans was also revived, your whole timeline of events is fictional.

Games and Studios didn't become a problem until Phil got involved, and so did the coverage and praise for games, and now we are still waiting for games.

Because MS investing on xbox would have changed the entire course of xbox one.

The issue which was the game output would have been fixed by the output of those new studios.

If MS bought remedy, respawn, bethesda, cpdr while they were focusing on xbox, you would have seen alot of big games exclusive to xbox.

MS didnt bother securing those studios during OG xbox and xbox 360.

 

[UltimaKilo]

They didn't. Again, for a self-claimed Xbox fan you use a lot of fabricated anti-Xbox talking points, They had more games than Sony did at the start of the Xbox One, got praised for it, and had wall to wall games at E3. Any TV stuff that wasn't an optional feature was reversed, or was already a small minimal option.



Ask yourself, why keep being dishonest about how things actually happened?

15-20 game studios in 2013, wall-to wall games at E3, a year and a half of praise for Xbox having games compared to the PS4, praised time exclusives, or 2nd party exclusives, along with FP exclusives, long dead franchises always wanted by fans was also revived, your whole timeline of events is fictional.

Games and Studios didn't become a problem until Phil got involved, and so did the coverage and praise for games, and now we are still waiting for games.

I don't understand the Phil hate. Is MS out of the woods? No. However, when he took over the division at Microsoft, the pressure from MS and investors was to shut down the XBOX division entirely, and it may have come close to that. Few, if any people are having that discussion over at Microsoft today.

They're betting big on streaming and are looking 10+ years out. It's a sound, yet expensive business strategy.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

I am not xbox fan.
Second, ms DESTROYED xbox with that TV direction.

Nope, fanboy myth, was never the focus of the controversy prelaunch, and then what was the controversy was reversed.

Xbox went from a prelaunch controversy tot he best launch in Xbox history, the best launch window in Xbox history, selling more than the 360 and Xbox 1 as the fastest selling console, gained praise for a year+ for games compared to the PS5 while people were calling Killzone a tech demo and making fun of Knack, had a bunch of TP exclusives full and timed releasing in that period, MS had FP output starting the gen off good, and this was when it was $100 more than the competition (though that price would be a problem later), AND several big future announcements were made (later cancelled by Phil) for 2015 the next year, AND a loved franchise was revived.

Because MS investing on xbox would have changed the entire course of xbox one.

At this point it's clear you're just here to rewrite history, Xbox was investing billions into Xbox One, everything your saying is easily disprovable looking at what Xbox One had it's first full year, and what they announced at E3 within that year, and what they announced at the E3 before launch leading up to the launch. That wasn't done with $10.

Nothing like that was done by Phil, and STILL hasn't been done by Phil in 2022.

I don't understand the Phil hate. Is MS out of the woods? No. However, when he took over the division at Microsoft, the pressure from MS and investors was to shut down the XBOX division entirely, and it may have come close to that.

Nadella, investors was a rumor.

It also has nothing to do with games and studios there is no "hate" for Phil, that's a terrible dumb dodge from the fact we are still waiting for games in 2022. Him stopping what he helped contribute to, the killing of Xbox, is not a "defense" for Phil destroying what was 20 studios, a bunch of TP agreements, losing COD to focus on FP from his own mouth which still hasn't happened, not replacing any studios, losing a ton of talent, later REGRETTING he did that, and STILL mismanaging the studios he later acquired which is why we are still waiting for games.

It's just a fact of all the Xbox heads, Phil has been the worst at managing studios and getting quality games out. There's threads and posts here about that constantly The only reason why people are pretending this isn't the case is because he's being compared to ALL the predecessors, which means DON, and people don't like Don, so they will defend Phil against done. Problem is, they have to go away from games to do it.

Phil OTHER than Games and game studios, has done a fine job with things like Game Pass, BC (enhanced BC btw) which I use and like, and several other features, not to mention having Xbox return to having the most powerful console in a gen again, though we still need to see some game really show us what the hardware can do, we've had a good demo so far with Flight Simulator but we need it in an actual game.

 

[feynoob]

Nope, fanboy myth, was never the focus of the controversy prelaunch, and then what was the controversy was reversed.

Xbox went from a prelaunch controversy tot he best launch in Xbox history, the best launch window in Xbox history, selling more than the 360 and Xbox 1 as the fastest selling console, gained praise for a year+ for games compared to the PS5 while people were calling Killzone a tech demo and making fun of Knack, had a bunch of TP exclusives full and timed releasing in that period, MS had FP output starting the gen off good, and this was when it was $100 more than the competition (though that price would be a problem later), AND several big future announcements were made (later cancelled by Phil) for 2015 the next year, AND a loved franchise was revived.

So you didnt learn anything from that video.
I cant believe you are ignoring the video, which MS/Xbox made, in order to support your fantasy.

At this point I here to rewrite history of Xbox one launch

That is what you are doing.
Good luck with your quest soldier.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

So you didnt learn anything from that video.

Because it's not relevant to the conversation, it doesn't address anything I gave you that you dodges, and is as off-topic as your first post.

You can't get away with trying to run with an irrelevant video, you haven't addressed a single thing because you simply can't. Every time you tried defending Phil you went off topic of games and game studios.

There's already a long list of sources already showing that almost everything you've claimed is either false and made up, or you can't back up. I'm still waiting for proof about those game studios not having the right games for the Xbox One, the ones that we didn't see anything from because they were cancelled before they showed up. Your video doesn't address that.

it doesn't address 20 studios being gimped by Phil either. Or him (and you) regretting several decisions. Or that the Xbox was "destroyed" because of something that wasn't even the main controversy prelaunch, or the fact you ignored how the Xbox One actually started out, successfully, with a ton of games and praise for its games compared to the competition.

Meanwhile it's 2022 and still no games. If you can't actually defend Phil spencer and can't address any claim you made or any point I brought to you without going off subject, just say you can't defend Phil.

 

[feynoob]

Because it's not relevant to the conversation, it doesn't address anything I gave you that you dodges, and is as off-topic as your first post.

You can't get away with trying to run with an irrelevant video, you haven't addressed a single thing because you simply can't. Every time you tried defending Phil you went off topic of games and game studios.

There's already a long list of sources already showing that almost everything you've claimed is either false and made up, or you can't back up. I'm still waiting for proof about those game studios not having the right games for the Xbox One, the ones that we didn't see anything from because they were cancelled before they showed up. Your video doesn't address that.

it doesn't address 20 studios being gimped by Phil either. Or him (and you) regretting several decisions. Or that the Xbox was "destroyed" because of something that wasn't even the main controversy prelaunch, or the fact you ignored how the Xbox One actually started out, successfully, with a ton of games and praise for its games compared to the competition.

Meanwhile it's 2022 and still no games. If you can't actually defend Phil spencer and can't address any claim you made or any point I brought to you without going off subject, just say you can't defend Phil.

good luck man.
Piece of advice, watch the entire document. It could help you alot.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Threads like these take a lot of liberties with why and how specific things happened. It’s why deep dives such as what is happening ITT is kind of worth taking with a grain of salt.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Feynoob

Still haven't addressed a single thing or explained Phils decisions this entire thread. Just went off-topic, and looking through seems there's two other people you also didn't address.

If you really believed Phil was a flawless leader then you should be able to explain him reducing 20 studios to 5, the same ones you are now saying didn't have the games Xbox needed despite not knowing what games they were making, and the SAME studios you said before didn't exist and claimed Phil didn't closed, so you changed your stance multiple times. You were also saying Xbox "needed" games like Flight simulator (what?), while also saying yourself Phil regretted lionhead, but then also at the same time saying that it was also a studio Xbox didn't need. But if Phil looks at it as a "misstep" wouldn't that means he wasn't thinking about it clearly when he closed them? Are you saying Phil was fibbing when he said it was a misstep?

Phil did good stuff, just not in games and studios then, or now in 2022.

I hope for you that nothing else gets delayed in 2023, because if it does that thread is going to take down the servers.

Threads like these take a lot of liberties with why and how specific things happened. It’s why deep dives such as what is happening ITT is kind of worth taking with a grain of salt.

Documents, news articles, and quotes can't really be taken with a grain of salt. For example, the guy posted above talking about Phil shutting down FP studios who worked FOR xbox, or the news article pointing out the delays, closures and cancellations at the time. Or the easy to find new articles or game release lists showing that Xbox One had games, or how people were comparing it early on favorably to the PS4 in terms of major releases, https://www.denofgeek.com/games/ps4-vs-xbox-one-6-months-later/

ow as far as the big retail exclusive games are concerned, I have to say that Microsoft is winning the battle so far on that front. The Xbox One came out strong with launch titles like Dead Rising 3 and Ryse: Son of Rome. In the months since, they’ve added such gems as Plants vs. Zombies: Garden Warfare, Kinect Sports Rivals, and, of course, the big system seller, Titanfall.

The PS4’s big exclusive titles, on the other hand, have left a little bit to be desired so far. Killzone: Shadow Fall turned out to be a clunky and generic shooter, while Knack is an absolute lesson in boredom and frustration (and this is coming from someone whose favorite game genre is action-platformers a la Jak and Daxter). Luckily, a few of the PS4’s heavy hitters have finally begun to roll out, like the unbelievably fun Infamous: Second Son.

That side is accurate ,Grain of salt is saying things like "those studios are not what MS needed they couldn't do games like that" when we never saw what those studios could put out, or that Phil was perfect and "inherited" every single mistake including his own decisions years after he took power.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Documents, news articles, and quotes can't really be taken with a grain of salt. For example, the guy posted above talking about Phil shutting down FP studios who worked FOR xbox, or the news article pointing out the delays, closures and cancellations at the time. Or the easy to find new articles or game release lists showing that Xbox One had games, or how people were comparing it early on favorably to the PS4 in terms of major releases, https://www.denofgeek.com/games/ps4-vs-xbox-one-6-months-later/


That side is accurate ,Grain of salt is saying things like "those studios are not what MS needed they couldn't do games like that" when we never saw what those studios could put out, or that Phil was perfect and "inherited" every single mistake including his own decisions years after he took power.

I know you put a lot of time in this thread so I understand why you may not see the problem, but to me it's pretty obvious. It's one thing to state that developers x, y, z, were closed down, and its one thing to conclude that it was either a good thing or a bad thing, but this isn't a black and white matter in most cases. I doubt any of the shuttered studios were healthy companies who were at their peak. If you take the time to look at some of the closures, like Lionhead, they simply were not delivering for one reason or another. It costs money to run a studio, pay the employees, etc. If the powers that be give you a budget you have to find a way to operate within that budget. This isn't a knock against you, but some of the takes ITT and not just from you seem to fill in the blanks with conjecture.

 

[feynoob]

If you really believed Phil was a flawless leader

That is where your mistake is.
This isn't Phil problem.
It's MS. They own Xbox brand.

They almost killed their brand, when they went the TV direction. The YouTube documentary, which I sent you talk more about it, and about how they were disorganized.

Your argument studio should be directed against MS. If you really believe that Phil was bad for the brand, why didn't Xbox fire him? Just like how they fired don mattrick. Why did they stick with him all through those years?

You clearly know why. You are just hung up on MS mistakes. Without Phil, the brand we know as Xbox wouldn't have existed at all.
As adamsapple said, MS investors wanted MS to sell Xbox brand.

 

[feynoob]

I know you put a lot of time in this thread so I understand why you may not see the problem, but to me it's pretty obvious. It's one thing to state that developers x, y, z, were closed down, and its one thing to conclude that it was either a good thing or a bad thing, but this isn't a black and white matter in most cases. I doubt any of the shuttered studios were healthy companies who were at their peak. If you take the time to look at some of the closures, like Lionhead, they simply were not delivering for one reason or another. It costs money to run a studio, pay the employees, etc. If the powers that be give you a budget you have to find a way to operate within that budget. This isn't a knock against you, but some of the takes ITT and not just from you seem to fill in the blanks with conjecture.

All he sees is a list.
He could have saved himself the trouble, if he actually bothered what those studios were doing in the first place, and why Xbox/Phil had to close them.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

All he sees is a list.
He could have saved himself the trouble, if he actually bothered what those studios were doing in the first place, and why Xbox/Phil had to close them.

per phil, on Lionhead:

In the 2021 documentary Power On: The Story of Xbox, Microsoft admitted that their handling of Lionhead Studios was a mistake. Phil Spencer, the current head of Xbox at Microsoft, admitted that forcing Lionhead to work on Kinect and the impact of that on the quality of their games was at fault. Spencer said "You acquire a studio for what they’re great at now, and your job is to help them accelerate how they do what they do, not them accelerate what you do."[61]

Sounds to me like he saw the problem, the solution wasn't a good one, but you can tell a lot by what he said there. This is what he should be looking at instead of just lists.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

I know you put a lot of time in this thread so I understand why you may not see the problem, but to me it's pretty obvious. It's one thing to state that developers x, y, z, were closed down, and its one thing to conclude that it was either a good thing or a bad thing, but this isn't a black and white matter in most cases. I doubt any of the shuttered studios were healthy companies who were at their peak. If you take the time to look at some of the closures, like Lionhead, they simply were not delivering for one reason or another. It costs money to run a studio, pay the employees, etc. If the powers that be give you a budget you have to find a way to operate within that budget. This isn't a knock against you, but some of the takes ITT and not just from you seem to fill in the blanks with conjecture.

Except several of the 20 studios were either coming off highs/mids, or for many, didn't even have a chance to put out a game.

Your argument can apply to the acquisitions as well, all these delays, or game cancellations and refocuses, you could argue that we ended up with worse studios using your same logic, and it's taking them just as long if not longer to to produce results. You also lose talent, Lionhead is a bad example because Phil himself said the decision was a "misstep" and Sarah bond said she regretted it.

You are arguing the same flawed logic he is with pretending the studios that he closed were ALL bad based on nothing since we didn't see anything, while ignoring he didn't replace them, and then later brought studios due to him having no studios, and still we are waiting to see if any of these studios are worth anything for major releases, and assuming they will ALL be top tier quality. That doesn't make sense. Especially since for some of those studios they actually came off good performing or better games, and the rest of those earlier closures we have no idea what they would have done.

You're right it costs money to run a studio, Phil closed studios to keep putting money in things that wouldn't work like Quantum Break, Scaledbound two more times before cancelling, 343i without restructuring it, and Crackdown 3, among other odd decisions.

I don't see what's so hard to realize Phil had a bunch of studios with unknown potential and he quickly without thinking over years just decided to not only close them, but remove the infrastructure which would have made it easier to rebuild. The did nothing for two years, then brought a bunch of new studios that we are still waiting for games for since 2017, which have not proven they were worth the purchase yet, and several of these studios were brought as they were already in the middle of game development and those games still have not come out.

To me its irrelevant about the what ifs, I'm only mentioning them because the other side is pretending that one part of the what ifs was fact, was confirmed somehow and wasn't a what if.

My issue is that he hasn't produced anything regardless of which set of studios you look at yet, and for some reason the defense to that is that he "inherited" a mess yet he has been the head guy at Xbox since early Xbox One. That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

All he sees is a list.
He could have saved himself the trouble, if he actually bothered what those studios were doing in the first place, and why Xbox/Phil had to close them.

Yes, the studios you DON'T KNOW what they were doing, the ones you keep fibbing about pretending that you now other than the couple you keep bringing up.

You even said Phil regreted closing one of them and are backpedaling on your own post.

We got people FROM FP studios at Xbox saying he was destroying First-party.

You can't make stuff up and then say it's a fact when you have no proof whatsoever. Your whole argument is make believe assumptions, based on baseless speculation about studios you don't know about. We don't know what most of those studios were working on, that's the only fact about them that's true.

At the same time you're also making up that the studios he acquired we also know they are better, yet just like the former we DON'T know what they are working on, which has been the source of many complaints here, a lack of transparency, cancellations, and delays, including from you, which you are now trying to pretend hasn't happened.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

They almost killed their brand, when they went the TV direction.

And had the best launch, had more favorable games compared to the PS4, had a bunch of studios, had a bunch of games announced, had great TP exclusive deals full and timed, and for some reason you want to pretend that didn't happen.

Last I checked I'm the only one posting actual proof and links to what actually happened back then in my posts, while you keep "saying" things happened with no proof.

Everyone knows Xbox One made mistakes and it's a failure, but this thread is about games and game studios, and you haven't defended Phil on being the worst Xbox leader on that from this whole thread, and every defense involves moving away from games and game studios, every single one, including your boy bentanchorbolt who is also pushing baseless speculation and not looking at actual links and information from 2013-2017+, there's no need to speculate if the information from then is clear right in front of you.

 

[feynoob]

Yes, the studios you DON'T KNOW what they were doing, the ones you keep fibbing about pretending that you now other than the couple you keep bringing up.

You even said Phil regreted closing one of them and are backpedaling on your own post.

We got people FROM FP studios at Xbox saying he was destroying First-party.

You can't make stuff up and then say it's a fact when you have no proof whatsoever. Your whole argument is make believe assumptions, based on baseless speculation about studios you don't know about. We don't know what most of those studios were working on, that's the only fact about them that's true.

At the same time you're also making up that the studios he acquired we also know they are better, yet just like the former we DON'T know what they are working on, which has been the source of many complaints here, a lack of transparency, cancellations, and delays, including from you, which you are now trying to pretend hasn't happened.

And had the best launch, had more favorable games compared to the PS4, had a bunch of studios, had a bunch of games announced, had great TP exclusive deals full and timed, and for some reason you want to pretend that didn't happen.

Last I checked I'm the only one posting actual proof and links to what actually happened back then in my posts, while you keep "saying" things happened with no proof.

Everyone knows Xbox One made mistakes and it's a failure, but this thread is about games and game studios, and you haven't defended Phil on being the worst Xbox leader on that from this whole thread, and every defense involves moving away from games and game studios, every single one, including your boy bentanchorbolt who is also pushing baseless speculation and not looking at actual links and information from 2013-2017+, there's no need to speculate if the information from then is clear right in front of you.

Dense level is 10/10.

 

[Henry Panic]

This really does look like a "Phil is invincible" thread. It's been hours and my post hasn't been responded to yet.

I think the issue is the denial that Phil made mistakes, the problem appears to be that some think Phil should be absolved of EVERYTHING after Matt left, a view which I don't find to be realistic.

 

[feynoob]

This really does look like a "Phil is invincible" thread. It's been hours and my post hasn't been responded to yet.

I think the issue is the denial that Phil made mistakes, the problem appears to be that some think Phil should be absolved of EVERYTHING after Matt left, a view which I don't find to be realistic.

The issue is more than Phil. Xbox one state didn't happen over night. Xbox didn't have a dry first party overnight.

These are red flags, which MS should have fixed early, when their Xbox brand was growing fast. They didn't.

Look at Sony. They invested heavily on 1st party during PS3. And their PS4 become a hit. Why couldn't MS do the same?


They didn't even want to buy Sega.

There were three companies at that point in time, I think this was [Sony], Sega and Nintendo. There was always talk maybe we buy Sega or something like that. That never materialised, but we were actually able to license them what they call Windows CE, the younger brother of Windows, to run on their system [Dreamcast] and make that their platform.

For Bill [Gates] this wasn't enough, he didn't think that Sega had enough muscle to eventually stop Sony so we did our own Xbox thing. There were some talks but it never materialised because Sega was a very different bird. It was always Sony and Nintendo, right? And Nintendo had some financial trouble at that point in time, so Sony came out with the PlayStation and bang! They took off, and everyone else was left behind.

We can blame Phil as much as we want to, but the real culprit is MS unwillingness to invest in their brand. Their TV stance, and their focus on kinetic is what destroyed the Xbox brand.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

And had the best launch, had more favorable games compared to the PS4, had a bunch of studios, had a bunch of games announced, had great TP exclusive deals full and timed, and for some reason you want to pretend that didn't happen.

Last I checked I'm the only one posting actual proof and links to what actually happened back then in my posts, while you keep "saying" things happened with no proof.

Everyone knows Xbox One made mistakes and it's a failure, but this thread is about games and game studios, and you haven't defended Phil on being the worst Xbox leader on that from this whole thread, and every defense involves moving away from games and game studios, every single one, including your boy bentanchorbolt who is also pushing baseless speculation and not looking at actual links and information from 2013-2017+, there's no need to speculate if the information from then is clear right in front of you.

I don’t understand your disconnect other then you are being willfully obtuse so you don’t have to admit you are wrong or at the very least overlooking reality. The biggest games in the Xbox One launch window were third party games from Respawn, CryTek, and Insomniac, in fact the only launch games from MS were Forza 5, Kinect Fitness and Kinect Sports. Doesn’t sound at all like a company with a bunch of quality studios pumping out big games. All the other big games announced like Sea of Thieves and Crackdown 3 were delayed year after year after year, while other big games like Scalebound and Fable Legends were cancelled, for obvious reasons.

Xbox One had shit 1st party support long before Phil cleaned house. How this is even a debate is beyond me. Like feynoob said and even MS confirms, the big fuck up was putting too much resources into Kinect because when it was axed the brand had a serious identity issue.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

I don’t understand your disconnect other then you are being willfully obtuse so you don’t have to admit you are wrong or at the very least overlooking reality. The biggest games in the Xbox One launch window were third party games from Respawn, CryTek, and Insomniac, in fact the only launch games from MS were Forza 5, Kinect Fitness and Kinect Sports.

Xbox One had shit 1st party support long before Phil cleaned house. How this is even a debate is beyond me

Interesting how you stop at launch and don't go further out.

The point was that the first YEAR or so had FP games, TP exclusive games including the ones you mentioned and somehow are being willfully disingenuous and skipped, as well timed TP exclusive games. This all was reduced/removed when Phil started digging in.

What I also find very curious about your post, is you completely dodged they had 20 studios ready, and won't explain how you "know" that those studios weren't doing anything worth making in comparison to the nothing we got post-acquisition's, when we NEVER saw what they were?

I never argued Xbox One has the best FP, but as I had PROVEN with evidence via link, people did say it was better than the PS4's at the time, and there were MORE higher quality and quantity of them than any year under Phil using objective measurements. So you're conflating random things to try and muddy the main point, which is he has been bad with games and game studios since the early days.

You haven't even said that's wrong, you're just moving the goalposts, omitting things I've said, and are arguing from a different angle. You don't even mentioned why games that were more promising where cancelled, while a game that could not live up to its promise, Crackdown 3 was still going under him.

You also bring up Kinect, but completely omit the fact Phil delayed removing Kinect from Xbox One, and still supported the peripheral until 2017 wasting money on it. Who fault is that?

I don't like the putting words in my mouth either (never argued the Xbox One FP before Phil was the best, I said it was more and better than the nothing Phil put out, that he didn't built off of or improve and got rid of, and I also didn't say Kinect wasn't a problem, etc)

and then you pretend the debate is about "Xbox One had shit 1st party support long before Phil cleaned house. How this is even a debate is beyond me" when that is not what I was arguing at any point. I simply said that it was better before him, not that it was top class. He is the one who decided not to build off it and cause more waiting after his aquisitions.

Would you not say since 2017 until now Phil hasn't been mismanaging studios? Just look at the cancellations, delays, what happened with 343i (wayyyy too late might I add), and the whole thing with Fable recently etc etc etc? Are you really going to say he's been running a smooth ship and agree with Feynoob's argument that all this is STILL the fault of some guy who left in 2013? almost 10 years later? Come on.

They didn't even want to buy Sega.

Why would they buy a company that had almost all their 6th gen output flop or break even, leading to them shrinking their game releases, also a company that had flops all over their consoles that already had better selling alternatives for the same games, and would go and buy more viable studios?

What's even more odd is that you didn't even respond to what he asked you, first you are blaming stuff Phil did from 2015 until now in Don, then changed to MS as a whole, and now you're going all the way back to the 2000s talking about a potential Sega deal? That's not even what he was asking you or the discussion in this thread you brought up, which was about the Xbox One.

What's funny about this is that MS could have brought Sega from 2015-2019 iirc for dirt cheap because they were in a slump, their market cap was in shambles, and they were relatively worth pennies, and Phil never considered buying them at the cheapest price they could have brought Sega at since Xbox entered the business, and even though they are higher now, they are STILL cheap the last couple years and Phil still hasn't bothered. That's on Phil from 2015-2022, there's no one else you can blame for that.

 

[BlackTron]

So what you're saying is, everyone talks about how Xbox doesn't have games, but they're gravely mistaken on the reason -it's not that MS first party went down after Kinect, it's that MS first party was always just gears/halo/forza over and over again, but back then they had more third party exclusives so we didn't notice so bad.

Thanks for clarifying?

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Interesting how you stop at launch and don't go further out.

The point was that the first YEAR or so had FP games, TP exclusive games including the ones you mentioned and somehow are being willfully disingenuous and skipped, as well timed TP exclusive games. This all was reduced/removed when Phil started digging in.

What I also find very curious about your post, is you completely dodged they had 20 studios ready, and won't explain how you "know" that those studios weren't doing anything worth making in comparison to the nothing we got post-acquisition's, when we NEVER saw what they were?

I never argued Xbox One has the best FP, but as I had PROVEN with evidence via link, people did say it was better than the PS4's at the time, and there were MORE higher quality and quantity of them than any year under Phil using objective measurements. So you're conflating random things to try and muddy the main point, which is he has been bad with games and game studios since the early days.

You haven't even said that's wrong, you're just moving the goalposts, omitting things I've said, and are arguing from a different angle. You don't even mentioned why games that were more promising where cancelled, while a game that could not live up to its promise, Crackdown 3 was still going under him.

You also bring up Kinect, but completely omit the fact Phil delayed removing Kinect from Xbox One, and still supported the peripheral until 2017 wasting money on it. Who fault is that?

I don't like the putting words in my mouth either (never argued the Xbox One FP before Phil was the best, I said it was more and better than the nothing Phil put out, that he didn't built off of or improve and got rid of, and I also didn't say Kinect wasn't a problem, etc)

and then you pretend the debate is about "Xbox One had shit 1st party support long before Phil cleaned house. How this is even a debate is beyond me" when that is not what I was arguing at any point. I simply said that it was better before him, not that it was top class. He is the one who decided not to build off it and cause more waiting after his aquisitions.

Would you not say since 2017 until now Phil hasn't been mismanaging studios? Just look at the cancellations, delays, what happened with 343i (wayyyy too late might I add), and the whole thing with Fable recently etc etc etc? Are you really going to say he's been running a smooth ship and agree with Feynoob's argument that all this is STILL the fault of some guy who left in 2013? almost 10 years later? Come on.



Why would they buy a company that had almost all their 6th gen output flop or break even, leading to them shrinking their game releases, also a company that had flops all over their consoles that already had better selling alternatives for the same games, and would go and buy more viable studios?

What's even more odd is that you didn't even respond to what he asked you, first you are blaming stuff Phil did from 2015 until now in Don, then changed to MS as a whole, and now you're going all the way back to the 2000s talking about a potential Sega deal? That's not even what he was asking you or the discussion in this thread you brought up, which was about the Xbox One.

What's funny about this is that MS could have brought Sega from 2015-2019 iirc for dirt cheap because they were in a slump, their market cap was in shambles, and they were relatively worth pennies, and Phil never considered buying them at the cheapest price they could have brought Sega at since Xbox entered the business, and even though they are higher now, they are STILL cheap the last couple years and Phil still hasn't bothered. That's on Phil from 2015-2022, there's no one else you can blame for that.

Stopped at launch, but specifically brought up SoT and Crackdown 3. Hmmm, weird take but alright let’s roll with it since revisionist history is the theme of this thread.

And what goalposts am I moving, exactly? Is there some claim that I’ve made which I’m now walking back or deviating from?

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Stopped at launch, but specifically brought up SoT and Crackdown 3. Hmmm, weird take but alright let’s roll with it since revisionist history is the theme of this thread.

This is you,

The biggest games in the Xbox One launch window were third party games from Respawn, CryTek, and Insomniac,

Also noticed you skipped addressing the other issues in your post and saying i said something I didn't so there you go.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

This is you,



Also noticed you skipped addressing the other issues in your post and saying i said something I didn't so there you go.

You can quote the whole post but I guess it works best for your argument to quote a single sentence that at first glance sounds like it supports your claim. Come on dude, at least try to not come off so transparent. Who do you think you’re fooling?

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

You can quote the whole post but I guess it works best for your argument to quote a single sentence that at first glance sounds like it supports your claim.

You mean the thing you've been doing.

But the issue here is, I didn't cut anything out of context, You said launch window, listed games, and stopped at launch. There were games beyond where you stopped at from the latest announcement/released you listed in 2014, that was the point you're omitting games. It's you trying to fool not me.

I've been consistent on this same thing multiple posts now, that's not going to work. You also again, skipped over the other points I pointed out, and no apology was given for misquoting me and saying I said something that I didn't. multiple times in one post.

We have no need to go around in circles, we already established our views.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

You mean the thing you've been doing.

But the issue here is, I didn't cut anything out of context, You said launch window, listed games, and stopped at launch. There were games beyond where you stopped at from the latest announcement/released you listed in 2014, that was the point you're omitting games. It's you trying to fool not me.

I've been consistent on this same thing multiple posts now, that's not going to work. You also again, skipped over the other points I pointed out, and no apology was given for misquoting me and saying I said something that I didn't. multiple times in one post.

We have no need to go around in circles, we already established our views.

So I didn’t bring things up after launch window according to you, and therefore you believe that means I have an agenda or at the very least was intentional with it? This is the liberties you take that I accused you of earlier. It’s conjecture. You are twisting literally nothing into meaning something. Come on dude, even you aren’t that silly.

I get it, winning at internet conversation is something you value but let’s be honest in our discussion otherwise why waste your time? Seems silly to me but if this is what you find valuable who am I to argue?

At any rate, MS Game Studios is doing pretty well under Phil since 2017. Sea of Thieves, Forza Horizon 4 and 5, Motorsport 7, Psyconauts 2, Halo Infinite, MS Flight Sim, Deathloop, Ghostwire Tokyo, Grounded, The Outer Worlds, Gears 5, etc. Plus under Phil there was a bunch of day and date GP releases which were pretty good from 3rd parties, etc. 2022 was a dumpy year but so far I’ve got no complaints since he’s taken over. Never had a shortage of things to play. Not sure if this is what you wanted to hear argument wise but I can talk about whatever I want to this is where I’m directing the convo.

 

[feynoob]

Why would they buy a company that had almost all their 6th gen output flop or break even, leading to them shrinking their game releases, also a company that had flops all over their consoles that already had better selling alternatives for the same games, and would go and buy more viable studios?

Sega is bad, but your 20 studios are great for MS/Xbox. Great logic there.

What's even more odd is that you didn't even respond to what he asked you, first you are blaming stuff Phil did from 2015 until now in Don, then changed to MS as a whole, and now you're going all the way back to the 2000s talking about a potential Sega deal? That's not even what he was asking you or the discussion in this thread you brought up, which was about the Xbox One.

Why don't you understand the stuff that going before that? Like how Xbox found itself on that position. Have ever considered asking yourself that question. Because it would give you the answers you are looking for.

What's funny about this is that MS could have brought Sega from 2015-2019 iirc for dirt cheap because they were in a slump, their market cap was in shambles, and they were relatively worth pennies, and Phil never considered buying them at the cheapest price they could have brought Sega at since Xbox entered the business, and even though they are higher now, they are STILL cheap the last couple years and Phil still hasn't bothered. That's on Phil from 2015-2022, there's no one else you can blame for that.

Blame MS for not spending their money. They already declined Sega when it was really cheap.
They had so many opportunities, that they didn't take them at all.
Phil isn't Xbox owner, but MS. They are the ones who approve these spending, not Phil. They have the final say in these matters, and how Xbox can spend their budget, or how much they can get.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Oh, is this the thread in which we can trash MS/Xbox openly?....

There is something that I haven't seen talked about:

Xbox's identity. Back in the day Online Multiplayer/Co-Op was revolutionary. Nowadays that has become the norm, is not special or unique anymore.

I don't want to be the one saying "to be fair" to a triple trillion-dollar company.

But just think about it:

Imagine Halo coming out without multiplayer or a single-player campaign.

No one is expecting God of War to have a multiplayer offer at all.

and now, just a "mode" is not enough.

multiplayer has become like their own product/service. Meaning = a full team of devs.

and AAA single-player expectations are also absurdly big.

This fact puts xbox first party in a very difficult position: They need to deliver at both aspects of game development.

Did you know that scalebound was supposed to have a multiplayer component? I didn't. Is this an MS/Xbox mandate?

some people would dismiss multiplayer games as "easier to make" and viceversa with Single-Player games like "boring or One and Done".

These two aspects of game development design-philosophy can not be more at odds with each other= the expertise necesary to be good at them.

And I will repeat myself. MS can buy all the studios in the world....the effort of making successes in both spaces, can not be bought.

MS has shown incompetence at single-player AAA GOTY videogames production.

Also, MS has shown lack of innovation or just the mere creation of a new Multiplayer IP that could replace Halo/Gears, reinvigorating Xbox's own identity.

So. I believe next year is going to be a pivotal moment not just for xbox but the entire industry. I strongly expect to be the year that sets the tone for rest of the generation.

 

[Henry Panic]

The issue is more than Phil. Xbox one state didn't happen over night. Xbox didn't have a dry first party overnight.

These are red flags, which MS should have fixed early, when their Xbox brand was growing fast. They didn't.

Look at Sony. They invested heavily on 1st party during PS3. And their PS4 become a hit. Why couldn't MS do the same?


They didn't even want to buy Sega.




We can blame Phil as much as we want to, but the real culprit is MS unwillingness to invest in their brand. Their TV stance, and their focus on kinetic is what destroyed the Xbox brand.

That's nice, but this is the post I'm waiting for your response to: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/xbox...-tp-exclusives-with-fp.1648123/post-267197703

thanks.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Xbox One had plenty of TP exclusives until Phil cut up the studios and ran on fumes from 2015 until the acquisitions started in 2017 because he focused on hardware and services. It also had a higher FP and TO presence early on.

It was Robbie Bach who cut the studios , If you're going to troll at least get some facts right.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

All you're doing is deflecting blame. Phil was in charge of studios, he was there when new ones were added before the Xbox One launched.

Everything I listed are things Phil did in power. The Xbox One brand could have shaken off the reveal because they turned back the clock before launch, but he was in control the whole time, Matt was long gone.

Microsoft had nothing to do with Phil choosing to make Assassin's Creed Unity the headline bundle for the holidays. He chose the game because he thought it would be a good move and overhyped it, so much so he ignored negative previews and overshipped the Unity bundle in multiple countries along with a price cut because he was trying to make Xbox One catch up to the PS4 by any means.

The result of that was millions buying Xbox One for AC: Unity and having a sour taste, several on social media were talking about returns.

You can't blame MS for any of that, Phil did that, Phil did Titanfall PR (not the deal), Phil did Screamride, Phil did Shadow Tomb Raider for $100 million, Phil did Cortana voice commands, Phil kept dead Kinect going for another 3 years, Phil did Evolve, Phil did Black Desert, Phil did Super Lucky's Tale, Phil kept smart glass going after it clearly failed, and Phil had to explain to people confused what "console launch exclusive" meant.

I still remember when Scorpio launched people were complaining about the narrator saying "console launch exclusive" before each game, and realizing Scorpio wasn't launching with any real exclusives period. That was when Phil got even more money to spend on the gaming division.

You can't simply write this off and pretend Phil was on his first day at the job.

If Phil had $100 million to spend on Tomb Raider, $500 million to spend on other timed exclusives and the Scorpio console, millions for Scream Ride and Quantum Break, over $100 million fixing Halo MCC, and over $200 million in Halo 5 marketing, development, and server maintenance, millions for voice commands with Cortana in multiple languages, and millions to Remedy for Quantum Break 'tv show', then it's silly to believe Microsoft wasn't investing in Xbox.

He could have used all that money and more on something more practical and beneficial to the brand. He had been in charge since the launch of the Xbox One, even a little before then. Then previous to that, he was overseer of studios second in command.

Bringing up that the Xbox brand was on the chopping block In 2014 doesn't negate the fact he was in charge and made dumb decisions that hurt the brand even more AFTER he stopped Xbox from being chopped. It's 2022 bro. 2013 was almost a decade ago.

The guy saw the problems with Kinect, and took it out of the box selling the console by itself. But still for another 3 years, spent millions keeping Kinect alive and making deals with devs to release games on it, including one of their own. Who's to blame for that? Who decided to spend all that money on a barely used accessory?

You're right, it's not all his fault but you have to be naive to not realize he was the primary source of the problem, and still is.

If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you.

Kinect was likely supported due to sunk cost fallacy. I doubt even if he wanted to nix it completely it would have been signed off on since the success of the Xbox One was developed around Kinect being a big part of the platform, and that includes a number of studios that were diverted to support it. I believe Kinect was the major blow to the brand, bigger than everything else, and not in so many words both Phil and others within MS have admitted as much.

I think people love to pretend Xbox is doing far worse than it actually is and it’s exacerbated by 2022 being a bad year for their 1st party, but since Phil was named de facto boss in 2017 or 2018, they’ve shipped a number of very good titles, such as Forza Horizon 4 & 5, Halo Infinite (which people forget won a number of GOTY awards), Gears of War 5 and the killer Hivebusters DLC, MS Flight Sim, Grounded, Ori & The Will of the Wisps, etc. And studios they’ve bought have yielded Deathloop, The Outer Worlds, Ghostwire Tokyo, not to mention with Starfield slated for next year along with Forza Motorsport 8, Redfall, etc. Yeah, it’s not PS level bangers in regards to sales and meta critic, but it’s not as weak as so many of the dorks here like to pretend it is.

And for the bad you credit to Phil, don’t forget the good: Game Pass, crossplay, and back compat, just to name a few. Nobody is going to hit a home run with each decision they make, but he’s made some big ones that have paid off and carried the brand.

And this is largely why this gen feels like it’s worth owning both a PS5 and Series X if you like games. Anyone who doesn’t find value in what Xbox is doing is probably far too cynical to actually enjoy the art form they claim to love.

 

[feynoob]

That's nice, but this is the post I'm waiting for your response to: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/xbox...-tp-exclusives-with-fp.1648123/post-267197703

thanks.

Here is my response to you.

All you're doing is deflecting blame. Phil was in charge of studios, he was there when new ones were added before the Xbox One launched.

You mean these studios?

Since people would keep bringing this nonstop. Here is all their list (Bethesda not included)

343 Industries	Redmond, Washington	2007	—	Established by Microsoft to oversee the development of Halo following the departure of Bungie Studios.
The Coalition	Vancouver	2010	—	Formerly named Microsoft Studios Vancouver and Black Tusk Studios. Oversees development of the Gears of War series.
Compulsion Games	Montreal	2009	2018	Founded by ex-Arkane Studios developer Guillaume Provost. Developers of Contrast and We Happy Few.
Double Fine Productions	San Francisco	2000	2019	Founded by Tim Schafer after his departure from LucasArts. Developers of Psychonauts and Brütal Legend.
The Initiative	Santa Monica, California	2018	—	Established to act as a first-party developer similar in role to Santa Monica Studio. Led by Crystal Dynamics veteran Darrell Gallagher.[101][102]
inXile Entertainment	Tustin, California	2002	2018	Founded by Brian Fargo and specializing in role-playing games. Developers of The Bard's Tale series and the Wasteland series.
Mojang Studios	Stockholm	2009	2014	Developers of Minecraft and Crown and Council.
Ninja Theory	Cambridge	2000	2018	Developers of several projects including Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice.
Obsidian Entertainment	Irvine, California	2003	2018	Development team that specializes in open-world role-playing games. Developers of Pillars of Eternity, The Outer Worlds, Avowed and Grounded.
Playground Games	Leamington Spa	2010	2018	Developers that work with Turn 10 Studios on the Forza Horizon series.[103]
Rare	Twycross	1985	2002	Developers of numerous popular games since the Nintendo 64 era. Modern releases include Sea of Thieves and Everwild.
Turn 10 Studios	Redmond, Washington	2001	—	Established by Microsoft to develop the Forza Motorsport series and associated Forza Tech engine.
Undead Labs	Seattle	2009	2018	Developers of the State of Decay series.
World's Edge	Redmond, Washington	2019	—	Created internally to oversee the Age of Empires franchise.[104]
Xbox Game Studios Publishing	Redmond, Washington	2000	—	Xbox Game Studios' first-party publishing arm.

Former[edit]​

Sold or spun off

• Access Software/Salt Lake Games Studio/Indie Games — Links series — Sold to Take-Two Interactive
• Bungie — Halo series — Became independent
• Lift London — Removed from Microsoft's games business[105]
• Twisted Pixel Games — The Gunstringer, LocoCycle, The Maw, 'Splosion Man series — Became independent
• Wingnut Interactive — Peter Jackson's joint venture game studio — Sold to WingNut Films[106][107]

Closed or consolidated

• Aces Game Studio — Microsoft Flight Simulator series — Closed
• BigPark — Kinect Joy Ride, Joy Ride Turbo — Consolidated
• Carbonated Games — Closed
• Digital Anvil — Brute Force, Freelancer — Consolidated[108]
• Ensemble Studios — Age of Empires series, Age of Mythology series, Halo Wars — Closed
• FASA Studio — MechWarrior series, Shadowrun, Crimson Skies series — Closed
• Good Science Studio — Kinect Adventures, Kinect Fun Labs, Kinect Star Wars — Consolidated
• Hired Gun — Halo 2 PC port — Consolidated[109]
• Lionhead Studios — Fable series, Black & White series — Closed
• Microsoft Studios Japan — Phantom Dust — Closed
• Microsoft Studios Victoria — Closed
• Press Play — Max: The Curse of Brotherhood, Kalimba — Closed
• Team Dakota — Project Spark — Consolidated
• Xbox Entertainment Studios — Closed (TV and movie studio)
• Xbox Live Productions — Consolidated (Publishing arm)

.

Everything I listed are things Phil did in power. The Xbox One brand could have shaken off the reveal because they turned back the clock before launch, but he was in control the whole time, Matt was long gone

These were not enough. Check the output of some of those studios.
MS needed to open their wallet for capable studios.

Microsoft had nothing to do with Phil choosing to make Assassin's Creed Unity the headline bundle for the holidays. He chose the game because he thought it would be a good move and overhyped it, so much so he ignored negative previews and overshipped the Unity bundle in multiple countries along with a price cut because he was trying to make Xbox One catch up to the PS4 by any means.

Due to how bad his first party studios were.
Phil wouldn't have been in this situation, if MS were to actually invest in their own first party.
You are arguing about 3rd party game, but not the state of the first studios he was left with.

The result of that was millions buying Xbox One for AC: Unity and having a sour taste, several on social media were talking about returns.

Again, 3rd party game.

You can't blame MS for any of that, Phil did that, Phil did Titanfall PR (not the deal), Phil did Screamride, Phil did Shadow Tomb Raider for $100 million, Phil did Cortana voice commands, Phil kept dead Kinect going for another 3 years, Phil did Evolve, Phil did Black Desert, Phil did Super Lucky's Tale, Phil kept smart glass going after it clearly failed, and Phil had to explain to people confused what "console launch exclusive" meant.

A bunch of nonsense, which MS is responsible for.
Xbox isn't the one making those programs. It's MS. Do you think Xbox one is the one that made Cortana?
Who do you think was responsible for kinetic Creation?
Guy dropped kinetic from Xbox one bundle, and made Xbox the focus of games again.

I still remember when Scorpio launched people were complaining about the narrator saying "console launch exclusive" before each game, and realizing Scorpio wasn't launching with any real exclusives period. That was when Phil got even more money to spend on the gaming division.

You can't simply write this off and pretend Phil was on his first day at the job.

Poor studios, which MS is responsible for.
Phil isn't spending his pocket money here.
MS is the one that is funding Xbox.

If Phil had $100 million to spend on Tomb Raider, $500 million to spend on other timed exclusives and the Scorpio console, millions for Scream Ride and Quantum Break, over $100 million fixing Halo MCC, and over $200 million in Halo 5 marketing, development, and server maintenance, millions for voice commands with Cortana in multiple languages, and millions to Remedy for Quantum Break 'tv show', then it's silly to believe Microsoft wasn't investing in Xbox.

All could have been avoided, if MS were to increase Xbox 1st party studios.
This is what you don't understand.
MS/Xbox lacked proper first party studios, that makes big games for their system.

He could have used all that money and more on something more practical and beneficial to the brand. He had been in charge since the launch of the Xbox One, even a little before then. Then previous to that, he was overseer of studios second in command.

Bringing up that the Xbox brand was on the chopping block In 2014 doesn't negate the fact he was in charge and made dumb decisions that hurt the brand even more AFTER he stopped Xbox from being chopped. It's 2022 bro. 2013 was almost a decade ago.

The guy saw the problems with Kinect, and took it out of the box selling the console by itself. But still for another 3 years, spent millions keeping Kinect alive and making deals with devs to release games on it, including one of their own. Who's to blame for that? Who decided to spend all that money on a barely used accessory?

None of this would have happened, if MS focused more on video games, and not TV.

All your argument makes no sense, as MS was the one who neglected the system.
Games take time and need a lot of studios to make games for your system.
Those Xbox studios at that time, weren't qualified for that.
MS played around Xbox 360, and found the harsh truth during Xbox one.

All the list you have here are the result of MS not investing on their system.

 

[Shadowstar39]

For me, 360 was just the console to get because everything was jump shipping from PS to Xbox. From DMC, Resident Evil, Tekken to Final Fantasy. Personally I just knew I had games I wanted to play.

All those games were on ps3 too. Who cares if they weren't exclusive. No reason to buy a different console over as they elwere on both

 

[Henry Panic]

Here is my response to you.

You mean these studios?

Interesting, I mention Phil was in charge of studios and present BEFORE the Xbox One launched, and you give me a list of studios that were brought near the end of it's life after 2018.

I think I get where this is going, this is a troll.

Due to how bad his first party studios were.
Phil wouldn't have been in this situation,

First party has nothing to do with Phil not getting or reading the room for his bad third party timed picks, ignoring early negative reception from Unity, and then pushing and overproducing the Unity bundle anyway because he wanted to outsell the PS4 in the US and UK.

You are arguing about 3rd party game, but not the state of the first studios he was left with.

Is this a troll? You just argued that poor First party was to blame for Phil's bad Third party decisions. We both know that's baloney. All this Hurt the brand image of the Xbox One further long after launch.

A bunch of nonsense, which MS is responsible for.
Xbox isn't the one making those programs. It's MS. Do you think Xbox one is the one that made Cortana?
Who do you think was responsible for kinetic Creation?
Guy dropped kinetic from Xbox one bundle, and made Xbox the focus of games again.

The first sign this is BS is you skipped everything you can't dispute that Phil decided, and jumped right to Cortana.

The second is Phil is the one who pushed for Cortana to be on Xbox One, not MS. He wanted to do it to make Xbox One closer to PC because he wanted to change strategy and have Xbox and PC compliment each other. This is also why he pushed the terrible Win8 based UI updates so hard.

Third, you keep intentionally mistyping Kinect, yet looking through your history you had no issue with that before.

Fourth, Phil did take Kinect out eventually yes, but he also spend money to support it for years. You also claim he pulled Kinect out to focus on games again, which is hilarious, because what games are you referring to? He pulled Kinect out because it made the console $100 more than the competition and wasn't sustainable lmao.

All could have been avoided, if MS were to increase Xbox 1st party studios.
This is what you don't understand.
MS/Xbox lacked proper first party studios, that makes big games for their system.

100% confirmed troll.

All that billions of spending had nothing to do with poor first parties, quoting myself:

If Phil had $100 million to spend on Tomb Raider, $500 million to spend on other timed exclusives and the Scorpio console, millions for Scream Ride and Quantum Break, over $100 million fixing Halo MCC, and over $200 million in Halo 5 marketing, development, and server maintenance, millions for voice commands with Cortana in multiple languages, and millions to Remedy for Quantum Break 'tv show', then it's silly to believe Microsoft wasn't investing in Xbox.

As I said here, this was Phil being stupid with at minimum, over a billion dollars just with what I noted here, likely another billion in poor choices I did not list.

You can't argue MS did not invest when Phil wasted billions while the competition was doing better spending less, and making better choices. MS didn't neglect jack shit lmao.

Phil got even more money to make two new Xbox Ones, and somehow had no games ready to launch with either of them other than timed indie deals with a BIGGER warchest. Then he got an even BIGGER monetary deposit AFTER Scorpio.

Excluding the prices for buying studios, Phil from 2013-2022 has to have at least wasted $6 or $7 billion dollars before you add any studio acquisitions. Sony nor Nintendo wasted that much money in that same period, and got better results QUICKER Internal AND external.

Lol neglect? Nothing but trolls here, poor OP is oblivious but nothing new.

Kinect was likely supported due to sunk cost fallacy.

Kinect wasn't losing money before he took it out. That was the whole point of bundling it. He had no reason to keep supporting it after he did, even supported it AFTER One S removed the port. He had a bunch of unsold Kinects sitting on shelves for years after he separated it, but kept producing more to sell.

and for the bad you credit to Phil, don’t forget the good:

And this is largely why this gen feels like it’s worth owning both a PS5 and Series X if you like games. Anyone who doesn’t find value in what Xbox is doing is probably far too cynical to actually enjoy the art form they claim to love.

I disagree. This is a thread about internal exclusives made by first or third parties and the biggest games you listed that they have put out, that are also the most prominent this gen, are:

Halo, Gears, Forza.

You then bring up games I can play on the PS5, indie level titles, and upcoming titles that were delayed and originally were supposed to come out this year.

You have to lock yourself in a box to pretend 2022 isn't bad. You can't look at 2022 independently unless you're a casual jumping into next gen for the first time. For gamers who follow the industry frequently, or who already have an Xbox or both consoles, 2022 was a continuation of the same old same old.

Even you trying to defend 2022 with Halo, Gears, Forza, some fun indies, or a few modest titles that aren't AAA is the same thing we hear every year.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Kinect wasn't losing money before he took it out. That was the whole point of bundling it. He had no reason to keep supporting it after he did, even supported it AFTER One S removed the port. He had a bunch of unsold Kinects sitting on shelves for years after he separated it, but kept producing more to sell.




I disagree. This is a thread about internal exclusives made by first or third parties and the biggest games you listed that they have put out, that are also the most prominent this gen, are:

Halo, Gears, Forza.

You then bring up games I can play on the PS5, indie level titles, and upcoming titles that were delayed and originally were supposed to come out this year.

You have to lock yourself in a box to pretend 2022 isn't bad. You can't look at 2022 independently unless you're a casual jumping into next gen for the first time. For gamers who follow the industry frequently, or who already have an Xbox or both consoles, 2022 was a continuation of the same old same old.

Even you trying to defend 2022 with Halo, Gears, Forza, some fun indies, or a few modest titles that aren't AAA is the same thing we hear every year.

Kinect was dead in the water. Sony and MS were looking to capitalize on what made the Wii special but neither one of them had the right ingredient and therefore the attempts made weren't anything meaningful. Like I said, the support probably stuck around longer than it should have due to sunk cost fallacy, and I doubt the folks above him were willing to cut their losses so soon after spending the kind of money both on the tech and studios that made the games, but I can't prove that point (and you can't disprove it) so I guess we are stuck on that.

You have to lock yourself in a box to pretend 2022 isn't bad. You can't look at 2022 independently unless you're a casual jumping into next gen for the first time. For gamers who follow the industry frequently, or who already have an Xbox or both consoles, 2022 was a continuation of the same old same old.

I find the bolded to be particularly silly as well. I'm 39 years old and own all current gen consoles, as well as all the consoles from the last gen and the one before it. YOU might need to play mental gymnastics to make your own justifications, but I don't. We agree that 2022 sucked, I said as much and you are saying as much. Unsure why this is such a point of contention.

Even you trying to defend 2022 with Halo, Gears, Forza, some fun indies, or a few modest titles that aren't AAA is the same thing we hear every year.

I didn't defend 2022. Your take here is not accurate.

I disagree. This is a thread about internal exclusives made by first or third parties and the biggest games you listed that they have put out, that are also the most prominent this gen, are:

Halo, Gears, Forza.

Sea of Thieves and Grounded are not available on other consoles, nor is Flight Sim. And this ignored other points made about 3rd party games launching day and date on Game Pass, not just once or twice, by many times, most recently with High on Life.

You may not like the current trajectory of Xbox and this is fine, but Phil has done a good job from where I am sitting. I am not starved of games to play, and as someone who has been playing games for over 3 decades and owns all the consoles, I guess I have the luxury of viewing this with a more clear outlook on games. It's a good time to own a PS5 and Series X.

 

[Henry Panic]

MS has shown incompetence at single-player AAA GOTY videogames production.

Also, MS has shown lack of innovation or just the mere creation of a new Multiplayer IP that could replace Halo/Gears, reinvigorating Xbox's own identity.

This partially touches on the problem.

With the Original Xbox from day 1, through most of the 360, Halo was always a big name but there were other games that defined Xbox consoles.

Despite being on many platforms several multiplat series were "Xbox games" including franchises like Splinter Cell that used to be huge, in addition, MS would always have system selling First party in some capacity from Fable to Viva Pinatas.

But when the Xbox One launched and the Kinect fad ended, Xbox has struggled so much with brand identity that it's still considered a Halo Gears Forza box.

Xbox has failed to either replace, or have new games join those 3 in representing the brand in a big way.

One of the reasons for this is a lack of follow-ups. Through the entire Xbox One generation there were more one-offs than ever because games did not meet whatever metric heads of Xbox wanted. Even if the games had great reviews and loyal followings from gamers, they would be scraped.

Forza actually wasn't a hit out the gate like Halo and Gears, it took 3 games before Forza reached a high sales milestone, gained positive reputation from gamers, and was recognized as a force across the industry often compared favorably to GT.

Forza Horizon also took 3 games to become a large franchise with a high number of players for more modern times.

No franchise can be built from the ground up if Xbox scraps a game everytime it doesn't sell millions out the gate. Look at Uncharted, Infamous, and others.

Even Nintendo built franchises, Xenoblade started out as a niche game fans in the US were begging Nintendo to bring over. Now Xenoblade is a much bigger and more successful franchise.

Xbox hasn't done this since Forza and Forza Horizon. That needs to change if we want to see more than the same Halo Gears Forza in the future.

 

[feynoob]

Interesting, I mention Phil was in charge of studios and present BEFORE the Xbox One launched, and you give me a list of studios that were brought near the end of it's life after 2018.

I think I get where this is going, this is a troll.


First party has nothing to do with Phil not getting or reading the room for his bad third party timed picks, ignoring early negative reception from Unity, and then pushing and overproducing the Unity bundle anyway because he wanted to outsell the PS4 in the US and UK.



Is this a troll? You just argued that poor First party was to blame for Phil's bad Third party decisions. We both know that's baloney. All this Hurt the brand image of the Xbox One further long after launch.



The first sign this is BS is you skipped everything you can't dispute that Phil decided, and jumped right to Cortana.

The second is Phil is the one who pushed for Cortana to be on Xbox One, not MS. He wanted to do it to make Xbox One closer to PC because he wanted to change strategy and have Xbox and PC compliment each other. This is also why he pushed the terrible Win8 based UI updates so hard.

Third, you keep intentionally mistyping Kinect, yet looking through your history you had no issue with that before.

Fourth, Phil did take Kinect out eventually yes, but he also spend money to support it for years. You also claim he pulled Kinect out to focus on games again, which is hilarious, because what games are you referring to? He pulled Kinect out because it made the console $100 more than the competition and wasn't sustainable lmao.



100% confirmed troll.

All that billions of spending had nothing to do with poor first parties, quoting myself:



As I said here, this was Phil being stupid with at minimum, over a billion dollars just with what I noted here, likely another billion in poor choices I did not list.

You can't argue MS did not invest when Phil wasted billions while the competition was doing better spending less, and making better choices. MS didn't neglect jack shit lmao.

Phil got even more money to make two new Xbox Ones, and somehow had no games ready to launch with either of them other than timed indie deals with a BIGGER warchest. Then he got an even BIGGER monetary deposit AFTER Scorpio.

Excluding the prices for buying studios, Phil from 2013-2022 has to have at least wasted $6 or $7 billion dollars before you add any studio acquisitions. Sony nor Nintendo wasted that much money in that same period, and got better results QUICKER Internal AND external.

Lol neglect? Nothing but trolls here, poor OP is oblivious but nothing new.



Kinect wasn't losing money before he took it out. That was the whole point of bundling it. He had no reason to keep supporting it after he did, even supported it AFTER One S removed the port. He had a bunch of unsold Kinects sitting on shelves for years after he separated it, but kept producing more to sell.




I disagree. This is a thread about internal exclusives made by first or third parties and the biggest games you listed that they have put out, that are also the most prominent this gen, are:

Halo, Gears, Forza.

You then bring up games I can play on the PS5, indie level titles, and upcoming titles that were delayed and originally were supposed to come out this year.

You have to lock yourself in a box to pretend 2022 isn't bad. You can't look at 2022 independently unless you're a casual jumping into next gen for the first time. For gamers who follow the industry frequently, or who already have an Xbox or both consoles, 2022 was a continuation of the same old same old.

Even you trying to defend 2022 with Halo, Gears, Forza, some fun indies, or a few modest titles that aren't AAA is the same thing we hear every year.

To save you time.

MS spending money buying studios. Xbox one gets released. MS with new studios making games for their new console. Less decisions choosing bad games for the brand. More out 1st party from their studios. Less embarrassment for the console and the brand.

MS went a head to Xbox one with minimal first party studios. Some of their studios weren't equipped to make big games like rival studios. And some others were struggling to make good games.
Couple that with MS message about TV, which damaged their reputation with their fans, and the broken management during Xbox one TV debacle.

All that mess could have been avoided, if MS invested on their system.

You keep blaming Phil. But have you ever considered who was the one who started this mess? Who was the one who put Xbox in that position?

 

[bentanchorbolt]

One of the reasons for this is a lack of follow-ups. Through the entire Xbox One generation there were more one-offs than ever because games did not meet whatever metric heads of Xbox wanted. Even if the games had great reviews and loyal followings from gamers, they would be scraped.

Xbox hasn't done this since Forza and Forza Horizon. That needs to change if we want to see more than the same Halo Gears Forza in the future.

I agree with this. Halo/Gears/Forza are the marquee IPs for the brand but outside of that they have failed to build anything else, despite seeing some levels of success with a few titles, they just didn't follow up for one reason or another. I personally liked Quantum Break and it was a shame the game didn't get a follow up or a spiritual successor, or that MS didn't try to work with them and get Control as an exclusive IP, etc. ReCore could have been good with a follow up.

The only games I can think of that saw support like you are talking about is Ori and State of Decay.

 

[Henry Panic]

Kinect was dead in the water. Sony and MS were looking to capitalize on what made the Wii special but neither one of them had the right ingredient and therefore the attempts made weren't anything meaningful.

Kinect broke records and succeeded in capitalizing on the Wii for years before it died.

You're also still arguing sunken cost when there wasn't one. You also don't produce more Kinects if there's no userbase years later, this looks like another troll.

You may not like the current trajectory of Xbox and this is fine, but Phil has done a good job from where I am sitting.

100% troll confirmed.

I never said anything about Phil's trajectory, nor do I care if you think Phil is doing a good job, I never gave my position on that because the conversation was about me explaining to another user mistakes Phil made that they believed he did not.

You're trying to make it seem like I'm arguing Phil has done nothing good and am attacking him without cause, but that wasn't what the conversation with Fey was about. It was me pointing out questionable moves made entirely by Phil himself to show that he was part of the problem.

I do not like how you're trying to misdirect the conversation.

We agree that 2022 sucked, I said as much and you are saying as much. Unsure why this is such a point of contention.

Even you trying to defend 2022 with Halo, Gears, Forza, some fun indies, or a few modest titles that aren't AAA is the same thing we hear every year.

I didn't defend 2022. Your take here is not accurate.

This you?

Anyone who doesn’t find value in what Xbox is doing is probably far too cynical to actually enjoy the art form they claim to love.

Have you ever considered that the reason why fans are mad is because they are waiting for THEIR idea of what value is that may be different from your own?

Have you ever considered that the games of 2022 you listed to defend their output so far this gen may not be what some people are looking for, or don't do anything to address the core problem?

No, you attack people who are disappointed so far this gen with how the brand has been handled, and dismissing the many reasons why they would be.

Sorry, not dealing with sanctimonious trolls.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Kinect broke records and succeeded in capitalizing on the Wii for years before it died.

You're also still arguing sunken cost when there wasn't one. You also don't produce more Kinects if there's no userbase years later, this looks like another troll.



100% troll confirmed.

I never said anything about Phil's trajectory, nor do I care if you think Phil is doing a good job, I never gave my position on that because the conversation was about me explaining to another user mistakes Phil made that they believed he did not.

You're trying to make it seem like I'm arguing Phil has done nothing good and am attacking him without cause, but that wasn't what the conversation with Fey was about. It was me pointing out questionable moves made entirely by Phil himself to show that he was part of the problem.

I do not like how you're trying to misdirect the conversation.



This you?



Have you ever considered that the reason why fans are mad is because they are waiting for THEIR idea of what value is that may be different from your own?

Have you ever considered that the games of 2022 you listed to defend their output so far this gen may not be what some people are looking for, or don't do anything to address the core problem?

No, you attack people who are disappointed so far this gen with how the brand has been handled, and dismissing the many reasons why they would be.

Sorry, not dealing with sanctimonious trolls.

If I knew this was going to boil down into you accusing me of being a troll and then saying nonsense like I'm trying to "misdirect the conversation" and "attacking" people, then I wouldn't have wasted my time quoting you in the first place. I see you accusing others of people a troll who don't agree with you, so maybe this is just your thing. It doesn't appear to me you post here in good faith if your recent track record is anything to go off.

At any rate, can't imagine trying to have a real convo if this how you intend on being, so have a good one.

 

[Henry Panic]

To save you time.

MS spending money buying studios. Xbox one gets released. MS with new studios making games for their new console. Less decisions choosing bad games for the brand. More out 1st party from their studios. Less embarrassment for the console and the brand.

MS went a head to Xbox one with minimal first party studios. Some of their studios weren't equipped to make big games like rival studios. And some others were struggling to make good games.
Couple that with MS message about TV, which damaged their reputation with their fans, and the broken management during Xbox one TV debacle.

All that mess could have been avoided, if MS invested on their system.

You keep blaming Phil. But have you ever considered who was the one who started this mess? Who was the one who put Xbox in that position?

Lol, more trolling.

Everything I listed Phil did himself, several of which had nothing to do with first party as you keep falsely going on about. These were all his independent decisions. The rest of your post isn't part of the conversation or writing a fairytale about something no one outside of Xbox could know.

You just pushed a conspiracy theory that Phil ignored Unity reception and overshipped a product not caring about brand damage, because of something that happened a year earlier! That had nothing to do with Unity, a third party game!

I can't wait for you to say Starfield was delayed because Microsoft brought Nokia.

 

[Henry Panic]

I see you accusing others of people a troll who don't agree with you, so maybe this is just your thing.

sanctimonious bullshit

You just attacked every Xbox fan on this forum and elsewhere for having valid issues with Xbox's performance so far this gen! Dismissing any reason they may have and questioned if they cared about the medium if they disagreed with your take that it's not that bad!

I'm done with you two clowns. To think I almost thought maybe you guys wanted a real conversation trolololol.

And this is largely why this gen feels like it’s worth owning both a PS5 and Series X if you like games. Anyone who doesn’t find value in what Xbox is doing is probably far too cynical to actually enjoy the art form they claim to love.

^^^

 

[feynoob]

Lol, more trolling.

Everything I listed Phil did himself, several of which had nothing to do with first party as you keep falsely going on about. These were all his independent decisions. The rest of your post isn't part of the conversation or writing a fairytale about something no one outside of Xbox could know.

You just pushed a conspiracy theory that Phil ignored Unity reception and overshipped a product not caring about brand damage, because of something that happened a year earlier! That had nothing to do with Unity, a third party game!

I can't wait for you to say Starfield was delayed because Microsoft brought Nokia.

Way to ignore the real problem.