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PLAYSTATION 6: Potential Innovations, Features, Business Strategies & More (Speculation)
- Thread starter thicc_girls_are_teh_best
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
I know, I'm talking about the next, next one.
I think what would matter more is PS5's sales performance in its later years. If it has a similar decline in 2026-2027 as PS4 had in 2019-2020, no doubt they will looking to release the PS6 in holiday 2027, IMO.
Well, I'm not too knowledgeable of what decline PS4 saw between 2019 and 2020, or if it was steeper than a typical decline for a system in its last years. But I do know the pandemic and lockdowns, plus the chip shortages, definitely cut into some PS4 hardware sales that could've been had in 2021 and 2022 for certain.
The system's still getting a trickle of systems out every week in places like Japan, but that number could've been higher and more sustained between 2021 and 2022 if it weren't for the shortages and pandemic. Sony (and, well, everyone) would like to avoid something like that happening again a few years from now, but unless there's a dearth of big market-driving software to pull in latecomers around 2026 and later, or prices for the console don't drop down to an adequate enough level by that time to encourage purchases, I don't expect that situation to play out.
Which means they wouldn't be in a rush for a late 2027 launch, and that's an extra year of polish for any launch titles and the such.
Good question. Before SAM and BAR came about I'd of said there was zero chance, because there's just too many bottlenecks with PCIe for CPU & GPU communication, and too much a need in duplicate system resources like RAM. SAM & BAR don't completely solve that problem, but they have been showing to help somewhat in cutting down on the amount of traffic data needs to move between CPU RAM and GPU RAM just so the latter can do anything.
Still though, it's not a completely resolved issue, and PCs generally are scalable so users can brute force the problem away if they get fast enough CPUs, powerful enough GPUs and large enough RAM capacities for system memory. Consoles don't have that luxury, not to mention, they have to fit within a certain TDP limit and size constraints. Overall hUMA memory solutions (like what the current consoles have) still win out over non-hUMA like seen on PC, when comparing against similar specs and resources doing similar tasks.
The APUs, having the CPU & GPU in the same package, also cut down on a lot of the latency in those two things communicating with each other, plus allows for things like the GPU snooping CPU cache, that separate CPU/GPU setups on PC can't replicate (but again, with freedom to scale performance, they don't necessarily need it). There's also the fact that a lot of computing's been moving to putting memory and processing closer to each other in the same package, not further away, and moving towards more hUMA-style setups. So I can't see consoles suddenly moving away from that next generation.
Really the one big benefit moving back to split CPU & GPU dies would bring, besides possibly more powerful GPUs than an APU-centric design, is lower latency memory for the CPU, since they'd use DDR instead of GDDR. But you can resolve that very easily in a hUMA design with an APU package either by changing the RAM type to something like HBM or, more likely, adding more performant and a larger capacity of cache in the APU package for the CPU. Sony have already done things like cache scrubbers with the GPU; if there's benefit to extending that to the CPU, I guess they can add it there as well as a customization for the PS6, if they want to keep RAM affordable and stick with something like say GDDR7 (or better to say, GDDR7W).
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Whatever Sony or MS can come up with $500 US ($600-650 CDN) is fine with me as long as it can consistently do awesome 4k/60 fps/RT and fully BC. BC boost mode would be awesome too. If the hardware can do solid visuals at 120 fps even better.
A 4k optical drive is a must as I got 4k movie discs and dont have a dedicated player. They are still around $300 CDN and not really going down in price like the DVD/BR days where players were rock bottoming to $100 or less. But when the new consoles come out and 4k players are down to $100 or less then digital only consoles are good with me.
I hope no console maker chases 8k gaming.
A 4k optical drive is a must as I got 4k movie discs and dont have a dedicated player. They are still around $300 CDN and not really going down in price like the DVD/BR days where players were rock bottoming to $100 or less. But when the new consoles come out and 4k players are down to $100 or less then digital only consoles are good with me.
I hope no console maker chases 8k gaming.
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yurinka
Member
Yes, maybe they could have the normal and cheaper PS6 disc reader, and then a more expensive BC disc + memory cards reader.
I don't know the specifics, but I think Sony patented it for gaming, and that other companies made prototypes or not sure if comercialized something very similar for non-gaming.
Yes, 32GB is more realistic. I was just making a fan wish, in case prices of RAM decrease in the following years.
Right now once installed the console loads it from the HDD/SSD. And periodically the console checks if the proper disc is inserted while playing to make sure you didn't sell it/only had it because you rented it/a friend was who bought it etc.
They only would need fo remove this check.
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simpatico
Member
To sell me on a PS6
-Make a public commitment to backwards compatibility
-Great first party content I can't get on PC. Sony studios seem united in bringing their politics into their games. Let's go back to Uncharted and D Souls. Or hell all the way back to Metal Gear and Final Fantasy. Black label PSX games look so kino now compared to the blue jelly bean cases
-Make the hardware available. Apple can do it, it's not impossible
-The monthly fee is a mofo... try to offer some gamepass stuff if you guys are depending on it to keep the lights on
-Make it look like a sweet high end Sony AVR (how do they miss this every time? They have the technology!) Really lean into that HiFi aesthetic that made Playstation seem so cool during the first couple boxes.
-Use the money you're now saving on optical drives, printing discs and shipping discs to getting that monthly fee thing down
-Make a public commitment to backwards compatibility
-Great first party content I can't get on PC. Sony studios seem united in bringing their politics into their games. Let's go back to Uncharted and D Souls. Or hell all the way back to Metal Gear and Final Fantasy. Black label PSX games look so kino now compared to the blue jelly bean cases
-Make the hardware available. Apple can do it, it's not impossible
-The monthly fee is a mofo... try to offer some gamepass stuff if you guys are depending on it to keep the lights on
-Make it look like a sweet high end Sony AVR (how do they miss this every time? They have the technology!) Really lean into that HiFi aesthetic that made Playstation seem so cool during the first couple boxes.
-Use the money you're now saving on optical drives, printing discs and shipping discs to getting that monthly fee thing down
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Alex Anderson
Member
Hapdick feedback plz
WitchHunter
Banned
Games on ssd like pendrives/cartridges if blu ray sales catch rock bottom.
AI retardation giving you tips on how to deal with the boss. And you can't turn it off. It will be as annoying as GOWR's Freya.
You have played more than 12 hours today, now I'll suspend myself, and you go out do some housework. Tomorrow your allowance will be 4 hours tops. Thanks for your understanding. Do not exceed the recommendations, otherwise your parents will be alerted.
You only have 12 more minutes, I advise against trying this boss, because on average it takes 15 minutes to beat it.
Your heart rate and blood pressure is very high, you also have an erection.
Otherwise same as PS5, just a tad bit faster and looking even more sterile. Compared to PS4s, these PS5s look like an evil mastermind/a surgeon's plaything.
BUT... if they finally tell us about how to spot the ufos amongst the populace, noone will play games, everyone will get the glasses from They Live and start hunting.
+1: You can buy a "virtual?" familiar for the PS6, which will do fucking important things for you, like whatever the fuck.
AI retardation giving you tips on how to deal with the boss. And you can't turn it off. It will be as annoying as GOWR's Freya.
You have played more than 12 hours today, now I'll suspend myself, and you go out do some housework. Tomorrow your allowance will be 4 hours tops. Thanks for your understanding. Do not exceed the recommendations, otherwise your parents will be alerted.
You only have 12 more minutes, I advise against trying this boss, because on average it takes 15 minutes to beat it.
Your heart rate and blood pressure is very high, you also have an erection.
Otherwise same as PS5, just a tad bit faster and looking even more sterile. Compared to PS4s, these PS5s look like an evil mastermind/a surgeon's plaything.
BUT... if they finally tell us about how to spot the ufos amongst the populace, noone will play games, everyone will get the glasses from They Live and start hunting.
+1: You can buy a "virtual?" familiar for the PS6, which will do fucking important things for you, like whatever the fuck.
HighPoly
Banned
50 Teraflops
I mean, if PS5 PRO will make 23 TF, I believe in 2x performance on next console
And maybe, things like this would be possible in real time!
I know 50 teraflops is nothing compared to 4090, but as you all know consoles don't need to be extremely powerfull...
cause games will always run sub 4K with some kind of DLSS or FSR...
They will always put 30 fps on quality mode, and the newer technologies will bring us a cheaper ray tracing...
using less hardware resources...
I mean, if PS5 PRO will make 23 TF, I believe in 2x performance on next console
And maybe, things like this would be possible in real time!
I know 50 teraflops is nothing compared to 4090, but as you all know consoles don't need to be extremely powerfull...
cause games will always run sub 4K with some kind of DLSS or FSR...
They will always put 30 fps on quality mode, and the newer technologies will bring us a cheaper ray tracing...
using less hardware resources...
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foamdino
Member
I'm glad the next gen speculation has started. These are my favourite threads and I want to be immersed for the whole ride...
Personally I feel that the quality of gfx is now so damn good that I would rather next gen didn't focus on more or better pixels.
I think behind the scenes Cerny etc al, will be trying to work out how to make software dev more sustainable. 300 million budgets are on the horizon and that's simply not sustainable for anyone other than Sony and Rockstar. And even then I think Sony first party releases are risking not making a return on investment.
So designing a system that is sympathetic to building games quickly so that budgets don't spiral out of control would, I suspect, be a high priority for Cerny.
As for hw...
The jump from PS3 to PS4 was the ram. That was the thing that made PS4 games stand out. Simple ram config and large enough for dev ambitions.
PS4 to PS5 was storage speed (if not capacity). I could not go back to long loading times of last gen. This single change has ensured that I have spent far more game time on PS5 than on prior gens, even if I am playing cross gen games, the quality of life improvement is massive.
Based on these last two jumps forward, I don't think looking at PC GPUs and arguing about zen5 Vs zen7 etc is particularly meaningful.
These CPU/APUs provide a baseline in capabilities but are not the core thing that Cerny designs around.
I can see something like a system design that can deal with raw assets and handles lods internally with no dev input (like nanite but in hw). Ray tracing in theory frees up dev time to not have to manually place lights and bake assets etc. I think there will be more tech on these lines, simplify dev to get back to small teams able to create good games without huge budgets.
Something has to be done or AAA Dev will collapse under it's own weight. On the business side the "solution" has been to cram micro transactions into every game to recoup Dev costs. We can see that's failed and produced horrible experiences.
Only thing I think for certain is that ram capacity will be at least 32g as that is always a hard limit that Devs will want moved up. Everything else is up in the air for me, which makes speculation more interesting.
Personally I feel that the quality of gfx is now so damn good that I would rather next gen didn't focus on more or better pixels.
I think behind the scenes Cerny etc al, will be trying to work out how to make software dev more sustainable. 300 million budgets are on the horizon and that's simply not sustainable for anyone other than Sony and Rockstar. And even then I think Sony first party releases are risking not making a return on investment.
So designing a system that is sympathetic to building games quickly so that budgets don't spiral out of control would, I suspect, be a high priority for Cerny.
As for hw...
The jump from PS3 to PS4 was the ram. That was the thing that made PS4 games stand out. Simple ram config and large enough for dev ambitions.
PS4 to PS5 was storage speed (if not capacity). I could not go back to long loading times of last gen. This single change has ensured that I have spent far more game time on PS5 than on prior gens, even if I am playing cross gen games, the quality of life improvement is massive.
Based on these last two jumps forward, I don't think looking at PC GPUs and arguing about zen5 Vs zen7 etc is particularly meaningful.
These CPU/APUs provide a baseline in capabilities but are not the core thing that Cerny designs around.
I can see something like a system design that can deal with raw assets and handles lods internally with no dev input (like nanite but in hw). Ray tracing in theory frees up dev time to not have to manually place lights and bake assets etc. I think there will be more tech on these lines, simplify dev to get back to small teams able to create good games without huge budgets.
Something has to be done or AAA Dev will collapse under it's own weight. On the business side the "solution" has been to cram micro transactions into every game to recoup Dev costs. We can see that's failed and produced horrible experiences.
Only thing I think for certain is that ram capacity will be at least 32g as that is always a hard limit that Devs will want moved up. Everything else is up in the air for me, which makes speculation more interesting.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Lol yea, no publisher is approving that shit. Let me rephrase, how would this work to make sense for both publishers and Sony? I know how DRM works, I'm asking how would the thing you are suggesting work that doesn't just give a disk and allow the person to install the game and then scam people with an empty disk? lol
This sounds like it could do more harm then good.
Maybe, just maybe it could be done with some code or unique identifier on the disk. Like the disk has a code on it, you install the game, remove the disk and it ask for a code. Now, anyone else who has the disk, once they install it and it prompts for this code, someone else using the code removes access from the last system that had it activated on.
So this would make sense for Sony for convince. Make sense for publishers to not feel they are supporting some sort of scam type thing and makes sense for users who want it digital, but want the physical disk for installation or for preservation purposes. I feel, maybe it can be done, but it needs to be well thought out.
daninthemix
Member
Quick question: has any Sony fan ever been recorded as being happy with their hardware right now?
Seems like most of their time and thought-life is spent fantasizing about what might be in the future.
Seems like most of their time and thought-life is spent fantasizing about what might be in the future.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
I mean shit, has any fucking gamer in general ever just not want something more in the future?
Its not like only Sony fans are buying next gen systems so...its not like only Sony fans are upgrading or something odd like that lol
What you are saying applies to the whole industry, as who the fuck isn't fantasizing about what the future holds for this medium?
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Free multiplayer
Robb
Gold Member
I’m not sure what it falls under but I want more (and preferably well thought out and throughly tested) gimmicks. The DualSense is one of the best controllers they’ve made and also allow for fun interactions you can’t find on competing platforms. It feels very ‘Nintendo-like’. More unique stuff like that please.
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Kenpachii
Member
- No disc
- 100 tflops
- raytracing is now the new meta for games
- has DLSS like feature, has Frame gen nvidia like solution, and has DLSS 4.0 whatever that may be alternative.
- no discs anymore, or discs will be basically be nothing more then installation files for a more expensive version
- launches with spiderman 3, uncharted 5, a new game completed based around RT solutions
- 499 base model
- 99 disc expansion option
- 1tb ssd space
- 100 tflops
- raytracing is now the new meta for games
- has DLSS like feature, has Frame gen nvidia like solution, and has DLSS 4.0 whatever that may be alternative.
- no discs anymore, or discs will be basically be nothing more then installation files for a more expensive version
- launches with spiderman 3, uncharted 5, a new game completed based around RT solutions
- 499 base model
- 99 disc expansion option
- 1tb ssd space
Ar¢tos
Member
I just want Sony to make more non-gaas AA games like Concrete Genie and to increase support/funding for 3rd parties doing AA games (like they did with Stray).
And also to stop releasing VR headsets if they have no intention of making software for it. Have a goal of, at least, 2 AA 1st party games per year for the device (although I can see that there is no financial need for this, taking their cut from 3rd party publishers is more than enough to make VR profitable).
And also to stop releasing VR headsets if they have no intention of making software for it. Have a goal of, at least, 2 AA 1st party games per year for the device (although I can see that there is no financial need for this, taking their cut from 3rd party publishers is more than enough to make VR profitable).
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
I'll be looking forward to that cross Gen period where everything is 60fps and not upscaled from 780p.
elbourreau
Member
I
WANT
NEW
F***ING
AAA / AA IP
I mean, come on. I was so pumped when I played Horizon and Ghost of Tsushima last gen. BEst PS4 memories I have.
WANT
NEW
F***ING
AAA / AA IP
I mean, come on. I was so pumped when I played Horizon and Ghost of Tsushima last gen. BEst PS4 memories I have.
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Brigandier
Gold Member
I want a PS6 to come in classic PS1 grey!!!!
Matt_Fox
Member
PlayStation 6 Prediction...
Frictionless instant gaming will be the guiding principle. Western culture is moving ever more towards instant gratification. It's got to be fast or people scroll on by.
Expect the 'quick resume' feature of XSX to be improved further for the PS6.
Expect game libraries to become larger (and storage to become smarter through the cloud). The UI will also find ways to more attractively present your digital library to make you feel more personal ownership.
Sorry to the 'physical media forever' brigade, at this time I think there is zero possibility that a 2028 console comes with an inbuilt disc drive (I suspect you might be able to buy one as a peripheral to play old games and movies on, but PS6 games wont be pressed on disc). Faffing around to change discs is not friction free.
OP, you seem to have a penchant for VR but I think again zero possibility that Sony force a VR headset into every new PS6 purchase. They've never done that with a previous console and wont with this one.
Dualshock innovation with rear paddle buttons and voice commands.
Innovation in cooling tech and power to match the best PC Graphics card from the year prior to release.
Frictionless instant gaming will be the guiding principle. Western culture is moving ever more towards instant gratification. It's got to be fast or people scroll on by.
Expect the 'quick resume' feature of XSX to be improved further for the PS6.
Expect game libraries to become larger (and storage to become smarter through the cloud). The UI will also find ways to more attractively present your digital library to make you feel more personal ownership.
Sorry to the 'physical media forever' brigade, at this time I think there is zero possibility that a 2028 console comes with an inbuilt disc drive (I suspect you might be able to buy one as a peripheral to play old games and movies on, but PS6 games wont be pressed on disc). Faffing around to change discs is not friction free.
OP, you seem to have a penchant for VR but I think again zero possibility that Sony force a VR headset into every new PS6 purchase. They've never done that with a previous console and wont with this one.
Dualshock innovation with rear paddle buttons and voice commands.
Innovation in cooling tech and power to match the best PC Graphics card from the year prior to release.
Badlucktroll
Member
I bet it will be able to brute force emulate some PS3 games but it will only be a few for PS plus
Matt_Fox
Member
Happy for a month at least. That golden honeymoon period... Original PlayStation with Ridge Racer, PS2 with SSX, PS3 with Motorstorm, PS4 with...um... Knack, and PS5 with Astro's Playroom.
Klik
Member
I wouldn't be so sure about that. If something like RTX 5090 comes out in late 2024, in late 2026 we get something like RTX 6080 that is more powerful than 5090 and in late 2028 we get RTX 7070 that is surely more powerful than 5090.
So if PS6 comes out in late 2028(which is highly likely) we could get something like RTX 7070 in PS6 which would be more powerful than 5090.
Just why are you so eager for new hardware ? Devs can't even keep up with PS5 and publishers don't want to. You're going to play crossgen PS5 titles that are actually PS4 games (no new trends, no new ways to make games, no new IPs).
If this is because this gen is shit, salvation won't come from skipping it entirely.
If this is because this gen is shit, salvation won't come from skipping it entirely.
PatientGamer
Member
I feel like this generation will be the longest of all time. The pandemic held both MS and Sony back at least 2 years from their usual schedule of 6-7 years, so I wouldn't expect a new console until the end of this decade.
It also feels like there's barely any decent software out for both consoles. It's been a pitiful 2023 so far, and 2024 is barely any better for either platform holder.
Feels like we're just about to head into the 2008-2009 period of the PS5 where the 2nd phase of heavy hitters are on their way.
It's a shame that there's so few new IP. This truly is the remaster generation; what's the point of having a next-gen console if you're just going to play old games with shinier graphics.
It also feels like there's barely any decent software out for both consoles. It's been a pitiful 2023 so far, and 2024 is barely any better for either platform holder.
Feels like we're just about to head into the 2008-2009 period of the PS5 where the 2nd phase of heavy hitters are on their way.
It's a shame that there's so few new IP. This truly is the remaster generation; what's the point of having a next-gen console if you're just going to play old games with shinier graphics.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Yuck, no disc drive would be a gross move.
yurinka
Member
Sony's subscription has twice the subscribers than GP, generates way more revenue than GP, and unlike GP it's profitable because they don't lose as much sales and don't pay as much as MS to include there 3P games because they put old games there.
Maybe the reason of being more successful than GP is having more games and with an average better MC.
simpatico
Member
GP is optional. You have to have a Sony sub to access the features in most games. It's a bit of a hostage situation.
Zathalus
Member
On the hardware front it's going to be the same as the PS4/PS5, look at what PC is doing a few years before and extrapolate from there. I fully expect the leap from PS5 to PS6 to be smaller then the PS4 to PS5 was in both CPU and GPU (outside of RT and AI). It seems likely the GPU will be roughly 4x in raster but with much bigger leaps in RT and AI. Some increase in SSD speeds are also likely but I wouldn't expect another massive leap, PCIE 5 drives are running very hot just for a doubling in transfer speeds.
As for VR? I think the reception of PSVR2 as well as the dire sales of Quest 3 firmly put a nail in any dreams of it being more then a niche gaming segment. Bundling it with the console seems foolhardy, a very large segment of the population still finds VR uncomfortable to use. I highly doubt PSVR3 will be a thing.
Streaming and Cloud on the other hand will be pushed heavily. With the success of the Portal as well as the continued growth and development of Cloud technologies (Sony themselves heavily investing into it) I think both the Steaming and portability thereof will continue to get greater focus.
I don't see the PC strategy focus changing either, the entire venture has been extremely profitable for Sony and the ROI for them is very high. They even have contractual obligations for it for the next 10 years. I highly doubt day one (outside of some GaaS) ever becomes a thing, so the continued strategy of a 2 years gap would likely work for them.
As for VR? I think the reception of PSVR2 as well as the dire sales of Quest 3 firmly put a nail in any dreams of it being more then a niche gaming segment. Bundling it with the console seems foolhardy, a very large segment of the population still finds VR uncomfortable to use. I highly doubt PSVR3 will be a thing.
Streaming and Cloud on the other hand will be pushed heavily. With the success of the Portal as well as the continued growth and development of Cloud technologies (Sony themselves heavily investing into it) I think both the Steaming and portability thereof will continue to get greater focus.
I don't see the PC strategy focus changing either, the entire venture has been extremely profitable for Sony and the ROI for them is very high. They even have contractual obligations for it for the next 10 years. I highly doubt day one (outside of some GaaS) ever becomes a thing, so the continued strategy of a 2 years gap would likely work for them.
vivftp
Member
It's been a while since we heard a peep on the ReRAM front. Maybe the pandemic sidelined any plans they had and they'll get back on track. My hope is that with the joint venture plant with Sony and TSMC going live in late 2024 that Sony will utilize this plant to get their ReRAM plans off the ground. I would imagine that at first this tech would be implemented in high end products like their Alpha cameras where charging a premium is expected. Then after 3 or so years of perfecting manufacturing and hammering costs down, then maybe it'd be ready to be put into the PS6 as the primary storage. Here're the stated raw speeds of ReRAM back around 2019:
- 128GB (8x 128Gb) - 25.6GB/s read, 9.6GB/s write.
- 256GB (16x 128Gb) - 51.2GB/s read, 19.2GB/s write
yurinka
Member
No, the only thing that requires the Sony sub is the online multiplayer for paid games, exactly like in GP/Xbox.
Not sure if they changed it in Xbox, but at least some time ago you had to pay the MS sub to play F2P MP games, while in PS you didn't need it.
Having faster SSDs than the ones they have in PS5 (specially if they also improve compression) they wouldn't need a quick resume, feature that already isn't missed with the PS5 loading times + skipping menus screens feature.
As I remember PS already had voice commands since the PS4, and since the Dual Sense has mic you could already use it for comands.
My idea is that by following the current trend, around PS6 release the physical game sales will be almost zero, and maybe there won't even be PS6 physical disc games anymore, but they may instead sell boxes with PSN codes for gifts, or special/collector editions stuff like illustration cards, artbooks, figurines etc. in the physical stores. I see that in the future physical will be more for that collector edition part than for for the normal game copies.
If PS6 disc games exist, they will represent a tiny portion of their game revenue, so won't care if you go with the disc to your friend's house, or sell it in 2nd hand, or stuff like that.
The unique code is a good idea but if they didn't already implemented it may be due to some reason, like maybe mass produced discs must be exactly the same.
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simpatico
Member
Have GamePass and XBL completely merged now? I'm not too deep into that loop. F2P really isn't on my radar, but I know if you have something like Diablo or Killing Floor and wanted to play online, you can't do it without the sub. I'm certainly not saying MS has a better system. As a PC owner there's 0% chance I'm buying myself an Xbox, but Sony could sway me if they played all their cards right to pick up a PS as a side piece.
yurinka
Member
Yes, XBL Gold was merged with GP being now a third lower GP tier, to somewhat mimic the 3 PS+ tiers.
The thing is that unlike in PS+, where all 3 tiers give you access to online MP for paid games, in the case of GP only the low and top tiers include access to online multiplayer access.
So if have the base GP, which now is the middle tier, and want to play online you only have the option of migrating to Ultimate. Or to wait until your sub expires and get the lower GP tier instead.
The current 3 GP tiers now are:
- Core GP: Online MP in console + 25 games + discounts
- Console/PC GP: a few hundred dowloadable games in one of the two platforms including EA Play + discounts
- Ultimate GP: Online MP in cconsole + a few hundred downloadable games in both platforms including EA Play + discounts + cloud gaming
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Perrott
Member
Speculating on the PS6 launch window games, I'd expect:
- At Launch, In Fall 2028...
- Destiny 3 (Bungie) – PC, PS5 & PS6 cross-gen.
- Marvel's Spider-Man 3 (Insomniac Games) – PS5 & PS6 cross-gen.
- Marvel's Spider-Man Collection (Insomniac Games / Nixxes Software) – PS6 exclusive; including Spider-Man, Miles Morales, Spider-Man 2 and Venom, all remastered with full raytracing and next-gen features support.
- New Astro's Playroom (Team Asobi) – PS6 exclusive.
- New Action IP (Shift Up) – PS6 exclusive.
- Next-Gen Updates – Naughty Dog's New IP, Bend's new IP; Horizon III; the next God of War; Gran Turismo 8...
- Over The Launch Window, In Winter and Spring 2029...
- New IP (Haven Studios) – PC, PS5 & PS6 cross-gen.
- Racing Game (Firesprite) – PS5 & PS6 cross-gen; possibly MotorStorm.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Well about that check, I agree with
EDMIX
on that there'd need to be a way to still validate ownership of the disc even if the disc doesn't need to be used again after the initial install. Otherwise no one on either Sony's side or the 3P side will actually go for it.But I do like the idea of not needing the disc after the install; retro-themed systems like the PolyMega operate in that way and I think if a way can be made to still authenticate ownership, systems like PS6 could do something similar as well.
50 TF sounds just about right....maybe even a bit more than what a next-gen console would need. Honestly the biggest barriers to visual fidelity now are budgets and team sizes; the console tech is more than capable. We saw stuff like HFW somehow getting pulled off on a "weak" 1.84 TF PS4, but that was near the very end of the system's lifespan.
If budgets and team sizes can get reduced to more manageable levels, those types of games could come sooner, and more plentifully. And, they could also take more creative risks here and there as well.
Agreed; game budgets, dev time and team sizes are just ballooning in the AAA space and it has to be solved one way or another. I think companies like Microsoft are flirting a bit too much leaning into AI to fix the problem, because there are still ethical boundaries with AI that, at least, well I don't 100% trust Big Tech companies to care about. I mean, they're already getting busted for using AI-generated art to promote indie games, or AI to do most of the writing in scripts. There has to be a balance between saving money on dev costs but still being ethical about it so you aren't putting large numbers of people needlessly out of work.
So in that regard, I really like the idea here where Sony, Cerny specifically, might focus on hardware customizations that make time-consuming parts of the dev process much quicker and efficient, but not to the extent it's going to risk rampant loss of workforce. PS5 Pro is rumored to be doing something for RT and I'd expect the PS6 to improve even further upon that. An integrated ASIC component in the APU that can adjust LODs on the fly depending on object distance from the player viewpoint would be awesome; of course that would require the highest-detailed assets in RAM, or able to be loaded into RAM quickly enough. We're probably talking about at least 8K assets for next gen, even if internal rendering resolution is sub-4K and output resolution is just 4K in majority of cases.
I guess what would have to be done, is finding a way those assets could be compressed to fit in RAM, and decompressed quickly enough to be used by the GPU. So GPU decompression would be an area to target for that type of optimization. And the auto-LOD adjustment system having some way of knowing what the framebuffer state is like, and AI feedback to contextually be able to determine what assets are needed and at what possible LOD levels. In that sense it could function kind of like a DSP, you're taking the highest-level quality asset compressed in RAM, decompressing it on the fly on the GPU, then doing extremely quick calculations in parallel in real-time to adjust the render LODs for the framebuffer(s).
Quite interesting stuff.
Yeah, this is a possible way they can do what
yurinka
was suggesting, but still validating authentic ownership the whole time. Basically Sony'd have to keep a database of all codes server-side and accounts those codes are owned by. Then make sure those systems are connected online, send some command to the system with the current code license to be deleted, so the new system can install the game on its account(s) freely.Not too hard to do, at least in concept. Guess it would come down to how it's programmed and managed.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
100 TFs is insane, little chance that can happen. It wouldn't even be necessary IMO, if a lot of the stuff generic TF would normally do is being offloaded to custom silicon that would be more performant for the task and more energy-efficient as well.
Everything else tho can likely end up happening.
I can get behind some of these for sure. A Quick Resume-like feature could work, as long as it actually works for online games and doesn't introduce system bugs. Maybe Sony can find a way to bring the best aspects of Quick Resume to the Game Cards feature PS5 already supports, but let it be so all games just have automatic access to that feature instead of it varying game-by-game like it does currently.
Agreed that PS6 won't have a built-in disc drive, but disagreed on the idea they won't ship games on disc. Sony are aware that a lot of people simply don't have data plans where they can freely download multiple 100+ GB-sized games a month, or may not have the best internet available in their area. Being frictionless in this regard, I feel it'd be an overstep to not continue pressing games onto physical disc. But, what they COULD do, is limit production to those who preorder or put in orders for physical discs, and ship them out.
So Sony, and maybe 3P publishers, can just arrange it so that if you want a physical copy, you put in an order online for one, they press the discs and package them, then ship them out to you within a couple weeks or whatever. A person who still wants physical games is already okay with it not being a 100% frictionless process to use discs; that's why they go out of their way to buy the optional disc drive, and go out of their way to put in an order for a physical copy of their games. Why then make the discs worthless just by having a DRM code and nothing more? That's cutting off a lot of potential customer and retail partner markets for no sensible reasons.
Besides, even if Sony want people to go digital, having the disc drive be optional already funnels people into buying more content digitally off the store.
As for the VR...well we'll have to disagree on that one
. They haven't included VR as a default yet because it's still maturing tech and has been too expensive. But I think they have several devices now, including PSVR2, that provide enough experience and collective R&D to help them scale down VR design into economical, affordable headsets with cheap BOMs that can be produced and sold at scale. Scalability is the key in this context; they can have an entry headset affordable enough to include with every PS6, that can sell for an affordable MSRP (both the PS6 with a cheap headset, and the headset individually), and scale up in performance for higher-tier VR headset models.Honestly I think VR as a default offering would provide a more impressionable jump in the experience than just even prettier visuals, but I think Sony can find a way to get a good balance with both.
IMO that depends on if AMD can stay relatively close to Nvidia performance-wise. If anything it feels Nvidia are pulling ahead and growing the gap at the high-end. Even if AMD can keep up, these super-powerful cards are just getting more and more power-hungry.
At some point Sony (and Microsoft) have to consider where the GPU power is "good enough" for what'd qualify as a noticeable jump, but still relatively cheap & affordable to make en masse, and provides a power target devs can realistically maximize over the course of the console's lifecycle. Besides, TFs alone aren't a good target for judging scaling of gaming-related GPU performance. If processes of the pipeline like mesh shading and RT are moved to more custom hardware implementations and away from the shaders, you aren't going to need as many shaders to "generically" do those same functions (usually less efficiently than hardware tuned for the task).
That's why, at least in a sense, TF performance somewhere around a 4090 might be all a console actually needs next-gen. Also worth considering is that node processes are giving less boosts in power efficiency the smaller they get, and the smaller nodes are costing more per wafer. So to fit something that's even more powerful than a 5090 in a console TDP and physical footprint, in 2027/2028, for an MSRP around $499 that isn't bleeding lots of money on each unit manufactured, would be an incredible challenge that's likely not worth it in the end anyway.
Especially when, you'd need a big jump in RAM to feed that power with data, which means more memory controllers, which means a bigger chip, which means more heat, which means more elaborate cooling, which means more costs, which means a higher price (or much thinner margins). And at the end of the day, you'll still get more power if you just spend more on building a beefy PC. I think consoles have to differentiate themselves in other ways while still providing sizable performance/fidelity increases, and making extraction of that easier & quicker for developers.
No one's eager for a PS6 to release anytime soon. We're talking 2027/2028 here. But I don't see why being interested in what the next generation of hardware can bring, means dissatisfaction with the current system already out. People can be satisfied with the PS5 and still want to think of possible directions for the PS6, they aren't mutually exclusive things.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
I think this is reasonable. The power jumps we can expect, while maintaining TDPs that fit a console and take into account the reality of smaller nodes costing more, will likely shrink. Plus it's taking longer and longer for devs to fully harness the power of these systems as budgets, team sizes and dev time for AAA games continues to grow.
Well the current state of the VR market is somewhat self-fulfilling where some or many of these companies might've expected the products to sell based on their novelty alone, but without much in the way of a roadmap to push content and marketing long-term. I think outer factors like the pandemic and chip shortages, and internal factors like a priority shift early on to GaaS/live-service, might've taken Sony's focus away from optimally providing for the PSVR2 since they had to get the PS5 supply back on track, and make adjustments to some areas internally.
However, somewhat soft sales for PSVR2 shouldn't be used as an indicator to say there is no larger interest in VR. It just needs to be a lot more affordable, and be something people don't have to go out of their way to enjoy. Like imagine if CD-ROM drives remained optional in the console space well into the 2000s; you'd of gotten none of the widespread game design innovations that came with standardization of the medium, but it'd of been self-fulfilling in a sense because no one took the initiative to prioritize CD-ROM as a system standard.
And, arguably, companies like Sony were able to do this because they had a vested interest in CD-ROM technology. Well, they have a vested interest in VR technology between things like the lenses being used, cameras, and just R&D already invested into the tech as-is. If they could have the foresight to establish some type of standard in VR tech with other companies, that would help with various things related to adoption of standardized features that could help in lowering costs at scale, then companies like Sony can take the initiative to get VR production scalable and cheap enough to include some form of it as a standard in a mainstream system like PS6.
At that point, adoption comes naturally and devs now have all the incentive to consider that tech in aspects of their game design at the core. Sony have the incentive to develop UI experiences at the system level using that tech at its core. And all of that, creates more and more interest with customers. It all feeds into each other.
I think so, too, but in ways that complement the main pillar of their gaming ecosystem, the console. Less so in ways where they mitigate the importance or need of the console.
And that's a key distinction to make.
Eh, it hasn't been that profitable. Many of the more recent ports have not done great numbers, and the last results the previous FY fell short $50 million even while including Destiny revenue. The PC ports are potentially cheap (as we know now, anything under $30 million just required an email for approval), but doing multiple numbers of such ports a year still can add up near $100 million if not more, then you're looking at potential sales, Valve's cut, to get final results.
For example TLOU Remake did ~ $52 million in revenue on PC. But, assuming the port cost was just $30 million, then you take out Valve's 30% cut, and suddenly that port is barely profitable for Sony/SIE. I bet games like Spiderman went over the $30 million threshold, how much over though we don't know. As far as the contractual obligations, that's only been proven with the X-Men game and maybe some of the other Marvel ones Insomniac are working on; none of that would extend to IP SIE themselves own, and even with the Marvel stuff, those contracts can be re-negotiated as needed. We've seen that clearly between Microsoft and Lucasfilm (an arm of Disney) for games like Indiana Jones, for example.
All that said, I think the plans for PC WRT GaaS/live service games will likely remain the same. Most of them I can see coming to PC, most of those being Day 1 releases. There's still a situation where Sony has to convince console owners that version is worth playing even if the online isn't free, meaning they either get rid of paid online or put in lots of free item & cosmetics perks for PS+ subscribers on console, but that's a different bridge to cross.
I'm still trying to picture what a use case for ReRAM would be in a console if you already give it a good enough amount of GDDR-based RAM, and it has a decently fast SSD with robust I/O subsystem to boot. Plus no matter what, ReRAM is still going to be more expensive than NAND.
The byte-addressability is an advantage, but it'd have to come at a much higher bandwidth at modest cost. It looks like you get 200 MB/s for each GB of ReRAM; if Sony were to include something like that in PS6 it probably wouldn't be a large amount, maybe 64 GB at most, and it'd have to serve a point bandwidth-wise between GDDR and the SSD I/O. Personally I'm not necessarily seeing a way it can be increased in bandwidth to, say, 1 GB/s per 1 GB capacity, between 2019 and a little less a decade from then if the only mass-market application is in lower-volume high-end products going to market in 2025.
It feels like ReRAM is a technology that'd be more suitable for a PlayStation console beyond PS6, but I can see it having use in the PS6 gen on the server/cloud side of things, though. Even with the idea of an auto-LOD
foamdino
was saying earlier, which I think would be a great customization (especially if it could also predictively construct higher-level assets from lower-quality LODs and textures, basically something tech like DLSS and XeSS, and FSR to a lesser extent, are doing at the hardware level for framebuffers), I think that could get done with 'regular' GDDR RAM and a good enough SSD with great decompression tech, and really good GPU decompression for GPU-format data. Something to serve that type of system where there's say 32 GB of fast GDDR7 (or GDDR7W) maybe hitting 1 TB/s bandwidth or more, and some 2 TB SSD doing say 12 GB/s raw bandwidths but > 50 GB/s with decompression, would be great if affordable in bandwidth & capacity. So if it were ReRAM, something like 64 GB capacity doing like 224 GB/s of bandwidth, but can that really be ready for a console by 2027/2028?
Dunno; didn't some of the recent leaked info show that most PS5 owners are still buying physical? I mean there is a gradual transition happening, but I'm starting to think growth of digital doesn't have to mean physical is shrinking at a similar rate. In fact that doesn't seem to be the case at all with PlayStation; digital is still growing especially in certain markets but physical is still very strong unlike on Xbox, where physical has basically collapsed.
There isn't much where in the next 4-5 years, physical just has a collapse on PlayStation and that there's no need for physical PS6 games. I can see Sony and other companies doing the incentives for physical as you mention, but they can also still print-to-order physical copies of games for those who order them specifically. These would likely be collectors anyway, so if they have to pay a bit more than the normal price, they won't mind.
Just make sure the actual game data is on the disc, and the disc isn't just a DRM code. But, they can customize codes at pressing for each physical disc made, to help act as an identifier in a database for ownership, without having the user continuously insert the disc for verification, as
EDMIX
was saying.That'd be a solid launch and launch-window lineup...aside maybe Spiderman Collection. I mean if they're already going to have Spiderman 3 there at launch, a collection of the older games would be redundant perhaps. They could offer next-gen updates for those instead.
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tommib
Gold Member
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Gonna cross-post something here, in relation to a potential business model Sony could look into doing during the PS6 generation. It deals with the PS Store on non-PlayStation console devices, and specifically licenses and incentives for cross-buy across native and cloud versions of games.
Basically, assuming Sony do in fact bring the PS Store to other places like PC and mobile, aside from how they handle monetization and incentives for 3P support and equilibrium in revenue flow offset (of some players shifting buying habits to the store on these other platforms instead of the store on the console itself), there are a few ways I could see Sony approaching licenses. Specifically, for people who want a cloud instance of a game on one platform that otherwise lacks a native digital or physical copy.
One of these we can call 'Cloud License 1'. It's where the customer who has an active PS+ subscription (any tier), buys a cloud license of a native game at a cloud-streaming price reflective of some percent of the native game's price. So for example, if the native digital version on PS6 costed $60 at the time of the customer buying Cloud License 1, and they bought Cloud License 1 for $20, they have also effectively unlocked a 33.3% discount towards the native digital version of that game on the PS6, applicable anytime up until that version reaches a new normal price of below $20 for a consecutive 4 weeks or longer.
So for example, if the customer were to immediately go buy the native digital version of that game on PS6, instead of $60, it would cost them $39.96. If they wait to buy that native digital copy when it hits $40, though, then the customer's discount reduces that to $26.64. This specific Cloud License 1 discount can stack on top of general sales promotions and PS Reward points, as well. We can also say 'Cloud License 1' could really be called 'License 1', because this same system can be made applicable for someone buying a native mobile version of the game who then wants to buy a native PS6 or PC version through the storefront, although in those cases you're buying two native copies so it'd be more like you pay say $40 for the mobile version and then $40 for the PS6 version (the difference in price between the two versions would be converted to the percentage discount for the other version, OR an automatic 10% discount for the other version if there is otherwise no price difference). It can also apply for, say, an upgraded 'GOTY' cloud version of that game made available later.
However, the 'Cloud License 1' version can only be accessed as long as the user has an active PS+ (any tier) subscription. When they don't have an active sub, they don't have access to that 'Cloud License 1' version. That would be the only "drawback" of sorts for someone buying a game via 'Cloud License 1' method, and would apply to that cloud version. Conversely, there is also 'Cloud License 2', which is more straightforward. You buy this one at the normal price the game would cost (yes this is somewhat like what Google did with Stadia, but don't let that scare you), but in return you can play that cloud version without needing an active PS+ subscription. You'd just need to (obviously) make sure you have an internet connection of some kind. If at a later point you want to buy another version of that game, say a native PS6 version for example, you can get an automatic 5% discount for that version in doing so. Or, you decide to get a PS+ sub and then buy that version, and the discount doubles to 10%, plus maybe some PS Reward points on top of it or some other perk.
I think they'd have to make PSN and PS+ accounts universal for this to work (i.e one sub across all supported platforms, which IIRC the leaks were suggesting as a game plan anyway), and IMO it should also be paired with other changes like reverting paid online for MP, and doing a-la-cart per-game paid monthly installment options on the store for digital copies, but yeah this is the gist of something I thought about while responding to
yurinka
. And of course, you still have the regular "free" cloud license you get with buying native PS copies of games where you can stream them via Remote Play to devices that support it like the PS Portal or mobile (with the Remote Play app installed). Just thought this type of thing would also be interesting to talk about in relation to next-gen plans that don't hinge on CPU/GPU/RAM specs (aka the usual stuff).
Basically, assuming Sony do in fact bring the PS Store to other places like PC and mobile, aside from how they handle monetization and incentives for 3P support and equilibrium in revenue flow offset (of some players shifting buying habits to the store on these other platforms instead of the store on the console itself), there are a few ways I could see Sony approaching licenses. Specifically, for people who want a cloud instance of a game on one platform that otherwise lacks a native digital or physical copy.
One of these we can call 'Cloud License 1'. It's where the customer who has an active PS+ subscription (any tier), buys a cloud license of a native game at a cloud-streaming price reflective of some percent of the native game's price. So for example, if the native digital version on PS6 costed $60 at the time of the customer buying Cloud License 1, and they bought Cloud License 1 for $20, they have also effectively unlocked a 33.3% discount towards the native digital version of that game on the PS6, applicable anytime up until that version reaches a new normal price of below $20 for a consecutive 4 weeks or longer.
So for example, if the customer were to immediately go buy the native digital version of that game on PS6, instead of $60, it would cost them $39.96. If they wait to buy that native digital copy when it hits $40, though, then the customer's discount reduces that to $26.64. This specific Cloud License 1 discount can stack on top of general sales promotions and PS Reward points, as well. We can also say 'Cloud License 1' could really be called 'License 1', because this same system can be made applicable for someone buying a native mobile version of the game who then wants to buy a native PS6 or PC version through the storefront, although in those cases you're buying two native copies so it'd be more like you pay say $40 for the mobile version and then $40 for the PS6 version (the difference in price between the two versions would be converted to the percentage discount for the other version, OR an automatic 10% discount for the other version if there is otherwise no price difference). It can also apply for, say, an upgraded 'GOTY' cloud version of that game made available later.
However, the 'Cloud License 1' version can only be accessed as long as the user has an active PS+ (any tier) subscription. When they don't have an active sub, they don't have access to that 'Cloud License 1' version. That would be the only "drawback" of sorts for someone buying a game via 'Cloud License 1' method, and would apply to that cloud version. Conversely, there is also 'Cloud License 2', which is more straightforward. You buy this one at the normal price the game would cost (yes this is somewhat like what Google did with Stadia, but don't let that scare you), but in return you can play that cloud version without needing an active PS+ subscription. You'd just need to (obviously) make sure you have an internet connection of some kind. If at a later point you want to buy another version of that game, say a native PS6 version for example, you can get an automatic 5% discount for that version in doing so. Or, you decide to get a PS+ sub and then buy that version, and the discount doubles to 10%, plus maybe some PS Reward points on top of it or some other perk.
I think they'd have to make PSN and PS+ accounts universal for this to work (i.e one sub across all supported platforms, which IIRC the leaks were suggesting as a game plan anyway), and IMO it should also be paired with other changes like reverting paid online for MP, and doing a-la-cart per-game paid monthly installment options on the store for digital copies, but yeah this is the gist of something I thought about while responding to
yurinka
. And of course, you still have the regular "free" cloud license you get with buying native PS copies of games where you can stream them via Remote Play to devices that support it like the PS Portal or mobile (with the Remote Play app installed). Just thought this type of thing would also be interesting to talk about in relation to next-gen plans that don't hinge on CPU/GPU/RAM specs (aka the usual stuff).
Kdad
Member
You misspelled Ridge Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaacer.Deep Down as launch title
Sushi_Combo
Member
Wasted potential of not even considering PS Home for their GAAS initiatives.
Mythoclast
Member
VR will never take off…