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[carlosrox]

By 1997 it had to compete with games like Blood, Shadow Warrior, Duke Nukem 3D, Quake, Turok and Hexen II, all better more innovative games.

People acting like Doom 64 was among the best FPS of the era are revisionists Nintendo fanboys.

Again, it's not a dick measuring contest, but Doom 64 is easily on par with any of those games.

So I guess we all Nintendo Fanboying over this multiplatform game in 2021?

Cool theory bro.

Sorry, but Doom 64 is an awesome game. I see a buncha morons try to tell me Doom 3 isn't amazing either, guess that's just the Nintendo fanboy talking huh?

 

[Griffon]

I think the tepid reception Doom 64 received back then on the N64 was actually fair.

Everybody was moving on from old 3d engines with sprite characters, and frankly, the level design of Doom 64 got nothing on the Playstation port of Doom 1 & 2 (that psx port was really fucking good). You bought an N64 for Goldeneye or Turok, not for some slightly painted-on Doom wad.

Besides, I got Doom 64 last year when it was rereleased, I played the first 3 maps, and then completely forgot about it. For me it's a telling sign that it wasn't that amazing.

So yeah, meh.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

It aged like fine wine. Art direction in HD for this look fantastic today. Still hate those fucking Triforce maps though.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

Alien Isolation. Apparently everyone thinks it's amazing now. I thought it was brilliant until Alien showed up after you find a key code, but after that the game was pants. I just couldn't handle the whole 'walk at snail's pace while sneaking around and hope Aliens doesn't kill you right before you save the game' gameplay. I mean I could tolerate that for a while, but 20 hours of it? No thanks. Still don't understand why people refer to this repetitive and mundane game as masterpiece.

It perfectly captured the feelings of the first movie. 14 or 16 hours would have been more doable, though.

 

[01011001]

It's not just that though.

Doom 64 is appreciated today in the N64 scene because it's a technically more advanced DOOM game than any of the other console ports and even the PC version as well. It has very complex level design with no compromises, more so than DOOM 2 even, while the other console ports had to make sacrifices to the original levels, runs smoother than all N64 fps games (basically, it's perfect 30fps at all times) and actually uses the hardware to push the DOOM engine further (it's still the same engine).

Games like Turok and Goldeneye are more advanced, of course, but unlike DOOM 64, they have been surpassed by modern 3D FPS standards and their technical faults are showing. Turok is now mostly known for it's fog and Goldeneye for it's unstable frame rate. Which is bullshit IMO but that's how it is. DOOM 64 on the other hand is still the most advanced classic DOOM that was released officially. It has the complex architecture and labyrinthine design a DOOM game needs but dialed to 11, all the monsters a DOOM game needs and the speed/smoothness a DOOM game needs. People even consider it as the real DOOM 3. It's a DOOM without faults (except for the stupid shotgun reload animations missing).

this is what I'm saying. back in the day Doom 64 was simply a slightly more advanced Doom game, but it didn't do much new or amazing. while other games tried new things and back in that day came across as way more modern and advanced. you have to remember that Doom was still basically the first generation of actual FPS games and Doom 64 didn't really advance the series.

looking back Doom 64 is simply a Doom game, and that type of shooter with that style aged really well.
so it's a case of a game that was seen as super boring and outdated due to newer style shooters at the time, but a game that is now beloved because while it was somewhat outdated it is precisely the style of oldschool shooter many love nowadays.

that and newer versions are simply way better than the N64 version and way more enjoyable.

 

[Romulus]

Lots of VR games but that's only because the install base is now really growing. I would say Walking Dead Saints & Sinners stands out. Gory, incredibly made survival.
Racing and Flight sims, even ports to VR are just breathtaking. Stuff like Iracing is what I imagined the future of gaming would be like, yet 95% gamers have no clue at all

 

[01011001]

Again, it's not a dick measuring contest, but Doom 64 is easily on par with any of those games.

So I guess we all Nintendo Fanboying over this multiplatform game in 2021?

Cool theory bro.

Sorry, but Doom 64 is an awesome game. I see a buncha morons try to tell me Doom 3 isn't amazing either, guess that's just the Nintendo fanboy talking huh?

why the fuck are you triggered by this? it's the truth and it explains why Doom 64 was dismissed at the time, that's the theme of this thread after all. it makes sense why Doom 64 was not as loved back then as it is now. there were more "advanced" looking and playing shooters at the time, while Doom 64 was literally just another Doom game with basically zero innovation. back in the early days of 3D that would be a reason why a game would be seen as mediocre.

and the reason why it is loved NOW is because it is a good Doom game that is a direct successor in terms of gamedesign to Doom 1 and 2 and many people missed it back in the day. Doom 64 aged way better than many N64 games precisely because it didn't try anything new and just used the working Doom formula in a new engine. so its conservative design and SNES era gameplay helps it NOW that retro shooters are in style.

that doesn't defend the bad reviews it got back in the day, that is simply due to GAME REVIEWERS BEING ASBOLUTE SHIT and why I always say DO NOT READ REVIEWS simply watch gameplay, play a demo etc. because game reviews are bullshit and useless. it takes as much as the reviewer having a bad day at the time of the review and it tanks the score. barely any reviewer actually analyses gamedesign and looks at games from many angles to see why a certain design decision was made and if it makes sense. they play a game, if they die one too many times they say it's a bad game because they can't fathom that they simply suck, no it has to be the game... look at early reviews of Demon's Souls... says it all

all these points explain is simply why the general audience of shooters didn't pick it up back in the day

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

not for some slightly painted-on Doom wad.

I don't agree that it's just a glorified wad. I mean sure, it is based on the same code but it pushes it to the absolute limit (the lightning alone is leaps above Doom 1 & 2) and is an all-around big upgrade aesthetically. The more horror-esque style goes very well with the sound design (which is much better than in Doom 1 & 2 and among the best on the N64). I don't see any Doom clone coming close visually. Build engine games look worse too.

The remaster looks especially sick:




EDIT:

Check this one out! Brutal Doom 64 is a mod for Doom 64 EX and it makes the game look incredible!

 

[Elysion]

Wind Waker definitely got fairly negative reactions from fans when it was first revealed, with people calling it ‚Celda‘ and whatnot. And I can personally attest to that: Link‘s stupid design was one of the reasons I didn‘t get a Gamecube back then; it was just so… uncool, for lack of a better word. And I think to this day that the character design in WW (and all other Zelda games with that particular artstyle) is ugly as fuck. Just to be clear, I don‘t have a problem with the cel-shading as such (in fact, I think it looks great), but rather how they turned Link into this dopey looking midget.

I genuinely believe that Wind Waker’s artstyle being such a radical deviation from OoT contributed to the Gamecube‘s lackluster sales. OoT was only a couple of years old at the time, and was still considered the holy grail of gaming, so everyone was waiting with bated breath for the next Zelda on Nintendo‘s new console, especially after that famous Spaceworld 2000 teaser. If WW had looked like that, it would’ve been a huge killer app on par with Halo, and the Gamecube‘s sales would probably have been quite a bit stronger early on (though still far behind the PS2).

 

[BlackTron]

N64 magazine also gave it a "meh" review, pointing out it's biggest flaw was simply not being "next gen" enough.

Well, thank goodness we've all moved on from that mentality since then.

 

[01011001]

Wind Waker definitely got fairly negative reactions from fans when it was first revealed, with people calling it ‚Celda‘ and whatnot. And I can personally attest to that: Link‘s stupid design was one of the reasons I didn‘t get a Gamecube back then; it was just so… uncool, for lack of a better word. And I think to this day that the character design in WW (and all other Zelda games with that particular artstyle) is ugly as fuck. Just to be clear, I don‘t have a problem with the cel-shading as such (in fact, I think it looks great), but rather how they turned Link into this dopey looking midget.

I genuinely believe that Wind Waker’s artstyle being such a radical deviation from OoT contributed to the Gamecube‘s lackluster sales. OoT was only a couple of years old at the time, and was still considered the holy grail of gaming, so everyone was waiting with bated breath for the next Zelda on Nintendo‘s new console, especially after that famous Spaceworld 2000 teaser. If WW had looked like that, it would’ve been a huge killer app on par with Halo, and the Gamecube‘s sales would probably have been quite a bit stronger early on (though still far behind the PS2).

you made Toon Link sad!

what do you mean? Wind Waker's art style is so cute tho!

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

Wind Waker's art style is so cute tho!

And very expressive. I love the facial expressions.

Wind Waker wasn't hated by critics, but a lot of die-hard fans hated it solely because of the art style. Some of them even claimed it looks like a SNES game and not "next-gen" enough, which is just ridiculous. I believe the reaction led to Twilight Princess going for a darker and more "realistic" art direction (about as realistic as you can make a game about an elf boy saving a princess in a world that has talking stone-like creatures... and Yetis... and whatever this thing supposed to be). Twilight Princess is a good game in its own right, but I feel it is the safest most risk-free entry of the series. It plays to the likeness of the OOT crowd, which isn't a bad thing perse, but it makes it lack a unique selling point IMO compared to Ocarina of Time, Majoras Mask, Wind Waker, and even Skyward Sword, which all tried doing something more unique.

 

[jufonuk]

Doom 3

 

[DGrayson]

By 1997 it had to compete with games like Blood, Shadow Warrior, Duke Nukem 3D, Quake, Turok and Hexen II, all better more innovative games.

People acting like Doom 64 was among the best FPS of the era are revisionists Nintendo fanboys.

Don't think Nintendo fans have anything to do with this.

 

[Hypereides]

The 7th gen is practically filled with an unusually large amount of low-middling games.

Call me crazy but I think many of those will gain newfound appreciation as time goes by. Some of them just scream cult hit.

 

[Perry Simm but in space]

I always love it when unfairly dismissed games get rediscovered like that. Also want to recommend Brutal Doom 64, which was my introduction to the game. Even if you hate Brutal Doom. BD64 has a very different tone, more restrained and, like the base game, more horror oriented.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

When DOOM 64 was released, nobody cared. N64 owners were too busy being impressed with the fully 3D graphics of Turok and the upcoming Goldeneye.

Magazines gave it mediocre reviews. I remember C&VG magazine not giving it a full page review at all, they only gave it a "mini" review with a 3 out of 5 score declaring it's "not really DOOM" because it lacked the shotgun reload animations. That was the sole reason i didn't buy this game back then. I loved the reload animations.

N64 magazine also gave it a "meh" review, pointing out it's biggest flaw was simply not being "next gen" enough. They were too busy being impressed with Turok and Goldeneye.

Yet now, DOOM 64 is considered one of the better aged N64 games. People now consider it as the real DOOM 3 game, which completely dismisses the "it's not really DOOM" quote the biggest game magazine in the UK at the time made. And at the same time Turok and Goldeneye are getting more flack as they age. Goldeneye might as well be the complete opposite of DOOM 64 in that it was considered a masterpiece at the time and now it gets mentioned in threads like "Good past games you can't stand playing anymore".

Now there are a ton of games that are considered as "not having aged well". It's the most common thing about old games. There are also a lot of games that were considered good back then and are still good now. But DOOM 64 seems to be one of these rare instances of a game that was considered mediocre or even bad in the past but now it's one of the most appreciated N64 games, to the point i can hardly find anyone saying bad things about it.

Can't recall any other game being treated this way but i'm sure i must be forgetting a few.

That’s what happen when reviewers only care about graphics. Yeah, they learned nothing.

 

[Birdo]

The whole Wii-U library.

 

[Scotty W]

I have played thousands of levels made by the Doom community, starting in 2003. I was hoping Doom 64 would live up to the hype it has generated in the past few years.

But it does not. The skyboxes look nice, but that’s it. The level design is worse than Doom 1 and 2, relying too heavily on stand here to activate, run there quickly to use. One of the levels even plays like the difficulty was artificially inflated to keep people from beating it on a rental.

I wonder if the people praising this know how how amazing the modding community is. No I’m not talking about Brutal Doom. I’m talking about Deus Vult, Scythe, Titan, Ancient Aliens, Alien Vendetta, Kama Sutra. To go from these to Doom 64 is such a letdown.

 

[mancstheps5fanboy]

dismissed? it was a fkin masterpiece of its time.

 

[Apocryphon]

I owned Doom 64, and i dont remember it getting bad reviews.
Also that review doesnt make sense, about the game not being 'next gen enough', look at the ports of Doom on PS1 and Saturn, while DOOM64 blew away PC DOOM graphics wise (except resolution obviously).

Within a six months window we got Doom 64, Hexen 64, Duke Nukem 64, Goldeneye, and Turok.

Goldeneye and Turok were huge, and on the PC Quake was already a thing. Quake 2 was released in December and the following year would bring Unreal, Half Life, and a boatload of other fully 3D shooters.

Doom 64 had coloured lighting which gave it a unique aesthetic, but it went overlooked regardless because the focus at the time was on the next generation of fully 3D games.

Doom 64 is a delight to play though and I'm glad I experienced it at launch.

 

[nkarafo]

dismissed? it was a fkin masterpiece of its time.

I know. But most reviewers didn't think so back in the day.

 

[zaanan]

Prey.

Which one?

 

[Marty-McFly]

Wind Waker definitely got fairly negative reactions from fans when it was first revealed, with people calling it ‚Celda‘ and whatnot. And I can personally attest to that: Link‘s stupid design was one of the reasons I didn‘t get a Gamecube back then; it was just so… uncool, for lack of a better word. And I think to this day that the character design in WW (and all other Zelda games with that particular artstyle) is ugly as fuck. Just to be clear, I don‘t have a problem with the cel-shading as such (in fact, I think it looks great), but rather how they turned Link into this dopey looking midget.

I genuinely believe that Wind Waker’s artstyle being such a radical deviation from OoT contributed to the Gamecube‘s lackluster sales. OoT was only a couple of years old at the time, and was still considered the holy grail of gaming, so everyone was waiting with bated breath for the next Zelda on Nintendo‘s new console, especially after that famous Spaceworld 2000 teaser. If WW had looked like that, it would’ve been a huge killer app on par with Halo, and the Gamecube‘s sales would probably have been quite a bit stronger early on (though still far behind the PS2).

It's very rare you see a Nintendo game get praised for graphics because people have always associated Nintendo with "lesser graphics", or a kiddie stylized look (the "kiddy" thing was big in the Gamecube days) which was absurd in the Gamecube era considering the GC was a little beast and games like Metroid Prime and Windwaker are some of the best looking games of that era.