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[Mr Moose]

I thought we knew this already, I might be imagining it.
Edit:

Game Dev - Forbes: Bungie would have been in jeopardy if it weren't for Sony purchase

Bungie’s management is not blaming Sony for the company's layoffs. Some employees were told that if the Sony buyout did not happen, the studio would have been in jeopardy, according to a new Forbes report made by someone with verified insider knowlodge: Management said other levers were looked...

www.neogaf.com

 

[SimTourist]

Bungie really took Activision and Sony for a ride, good on them tbh

 

[Hudo]

Hot take: Bungie and Microsoft needed each other and were both too stupid to realize it.

 

[Roman Empire]

Bad company management and shit CEOs? Tell me a more iconic duo.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Man what a disaster. All Sony had to do was sit back and watch Xbox implode on itself.

Instead they panic-bought the most expensive thing at the worst possible time.

 

[wipeout364]

If only Sony had held out for another few months they may have gotten bungie at Fire Sale prices

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

And exactly the reason for my post in the other thread. They may have let actually skilled and valuable people go because they couldn't afford them, not because they were secretly bad apples. This shit happens all the time. Money is a hard line and if you can't afford good workers you start gambling on replacing them with wild cards you can afford if at all.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Watching these big acquisitions turning into trashy investments has been delightful to see. Now i'm just waiting for the Activision castle of cards to really start to crumble.
It's just a shame that people always end up losing there jobs in the process though.

 

[proandrad]

The best thing that could have happen to bungie was Sony completely taking over to fix this shit show.

 

[gatti-man]

Misrepresentation of finances would mean a lawsuit

You’d be surprised. You can mislead and still get by legally if you’re careful. For example I know of a company that sold itself for way more than it should by having the owners fire all management and working the store for a year for free. This juiced their profit margins by quite a bit new owners were shocked when their margins were trash.

Well yeah you have to pay management…. That’s how people can mislead without it being fraud. You can hide things while still being legal because there is a certain amount of expected DD outside companies should do. Easy to miss things etc.

 

[blastprocessor]

so much stinky gaas no wonder jim Ryan left the room

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

that's pretty clear

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I'm still scratching my head as to why they spent 3.6 fucking billion dollars on one studio. They could have spent that money elsewhere and acquired several smaller studios.

1. Market pressure
2. GaaS strategy
3. Sony din't have FPS games

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

too many people focus on 1 IP.

i heard the opposite.

 

[CSJ]

And now everyone is an M&A expert. Lol.

The way the games industry is going, are the experts okay?

 

[Nvzman]

There was a good article on Kotaku yesterday about CEO Pete Parsons spending lots of money on his collection of cars despite mass layoffs. https://kotaku.com/bungie-pete-parsons-layoffs-classic-cars-sony-buyout-de-1851610196

This is actually a spectacularly stupid fucking article and the people complaining about this are some grade-A whiny, invasively aggressive bitches.

What in the honest fuck does a guy spending his own money on his hobbies have anything to do with layoffs. How the hell do these pretentious douchebags even know that was money that even came from his CEO position and not just something he invested years ago? Are you just not allowed to do what you want with what you earn simply because you're rich? Its not like he took company funds or treated Bungie/MS executives to a spa or something like that, its literally his own money on his own hobby. Next time these losers on Twitter/X/Kotaku have a staff member lose a job at their employment, we should just shame them for spending money on a new phone or Funko Pops or whatever stupid shit they spend their money on.

This is why I hate social media, people really need to get a life and just fuck off. I couldn't care less about Bungie after Halo but this article makes me irrationally angry for all sorts of reasons. The dude earned his keep, he can do whatever the fuck he wants, he didn't make the money by bitching on Twitter after all. This type of stuff also shows me how fantastically business-illiterate people are, he holds zero personal financial liability on the business, there is no correlation between his own personal saving habits and the business's financial position. If you save your money long enough no matter where you work, you can afford things, what a surprise.

 

[A.Romero]

Of course, why else would they sell?

People have a hard time grasping this concept and think companies would do better without being acquired but there is a reason they are selling them.

 

[Jack Package]

Jason Jones continuing to be a fucking scumbag, I see.

 

[PSlayer]

So they're basically admiting to dump their bags on Sony? what a shit deal.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Man what a disaster. All Sony had to do was sit back and watch Xbox implode on itself.

Instead they panic-bought the most expensive thing at the worst possible time.

Sony and Microsoft have mastered the art of acquiring damaged goods.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

The best thing that could have happen to bungie was Sony completely taking over to fix this shit show.

Pretty much.

Isn't that most likely what Sony was after?

 

[clarky]

Pretty much.

Isn't that most likely what Sony was after?

No way you pay 3.6 billion expecting this shit show.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

No way you pay 3.6 billion expecting this shit show.

I didn't follow all the drama, but I assume Sony was aware that Bungie was in a very bad state.

Would make sense if they added a clause that said they would be able to take full control over Bungie.

 

[Kerotan]

Misrepresentation of finances would mean a lawsuit

Yeah I was thinking the same.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

I didn't follow all the drama, but I assume Sony was aware that Bungie was in a very bad state.

Would make sense if they added a clause that said they would be able to take full control over Bungie.

You don't pay that amount for a company in shambles, much less let them have full control after the acquisition. The deal is shady, to say the least. It's against any common sense. If somebody is managing so badly that the company needs salvation, why are they kept in charge? Only two logical reasons:

- Sony didn't know the actual situation (which tells us about Sony's incompetence)

- Sony knew and some individuals received money under the table.

With the data we have, we may conclude that this has been made in bad faith for one or both parties.

And besides, the acquisition of Firewalk, a brand-new studio with zero track record founded, among others, by ex-Bungie devs. This stinks. I hope HQ in Japan starts looking into the matter and calls in the katana boys.

 

[clarky]

I didn't follow all the drama, but I assume Sony was aware that Bungie was in a very bad state.

Would make sense if they added a clause that said they would be able to take full control over Bungie.

Things where a lot roseier back then, then lightfall happened.

Then TFS got delayed resulting in the longest season ever in D2.

 

[jakinov]

This is a not that interesting. They pretty much said this yesterday when they said they were running in the red from trying to do too much. Bungie was acquired arouhd the time when debt was cheap and there was a lot of money going around. This is the time when companies were worth billions despite not making money because they were growing.

 

[Trogdor1123]

This take makes zero sense. First of all, they were adding staff, you would contract staff iff it was insolvency, and they had put several well received expansions. They had cash.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Things where a lot roseier back then, then lightfall happened.

Then TFS got delayed resulting in the longest season ever in D2.

Bungie was a complete trainwreck before Destiny 1 released.

Activision killed the Destiny-deal for a reason.

 

[clarky]

Bungie was a complete trainwreck before Destiny 1 released.

Activision killed the Destiny-deal for a reason.

I liked Destiny, some of the stuff they have put out since Halo has been great.

Not privy to the inner workings of Bungie 10 years ago personally.

 

[SlimySnake]

$3.6 billion on a dying studio. I wouldnt be surprised if Jimbo was fired over this acquisition. What a fucking disaster.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I liked Destiny, some of the stuff they have put out since Halo has been great.

Not privy to the inner workings of Bungie 10 years ago personally.

For sure, Destiny was awesome. It's my second most-played game ever.

But it's development was a complete disaster and they initially had much bigger plans for it.

Same for Destiny 2.

 

[{insert code here}]

Dammmm... So, while Bungie was struggling with its finances Parsons was raiding the cash reserves to line his own pockets? If it was Jason Jones doing that I wouldn't be mad at him because he started Bungie, was there for 30 years, it's his baby he can do whatever he wants with it.

 

[StueyDuck]

I bounced from destiny ages ago, but I am genuinely surprised they fucked up so hard with the game.

I mean the people I use to play with are die hards, they didn't do anything but play destiny.

How you drop the ball so badly with a rabid fan group like that is kind of impressive

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I thought we knew this already, I might be imagining it.
Edit:

Game Dev - Forbes: Bungie would have been in jeopardy if it weren't for Sony purchase

Bungie’s management is not blaming Sony for the company's layoffs. Some employees were told that if the Sony buyout did not happen, the studio would have been in jeopardy, according to a new Forbes report made by someone with verified insider knowlodge: Management said other levers were looked...

www.neogaf.com

Source: Paul Tassi

 

[adamsapple]

$3.6 billion on a dying studio. I wouldnt be surprised if Jimbo was fired over this acquisition. What a fucking disaster.

Looks like MS dodged a bullet, or vetted the acquisition more thoroughly than Sony did.

 

[RickMasters]

Remember how people spent years blaming every problem with this shitty franchise on Activision

I’d say it became obvious that bungie was bungies big problem the moment they then proceeded to implement some of the most agressive pricing tactics I ever seen in a game in the form of destiny 2. It’s like they made destiny 2 just because they came up with a more efficient back end.

 

[RickMasters]

Looks like MS dodged a bullet, or vetted the acquisition more thoroughly than Sony did.

Or Sony are just that desperate for a peice of the gaas pie. I thought they bout but bungie for their ‘expertise’ in Gaas. Wanted them to ‘refine’ the other studios gaas game ideas. This was probably the worst way to spend 3.6 Bn. But bungies boss is laughing. I read somewhere the other day he spent 18 mill on cars pretty much after the aquisition and right before letting off a tonne of staff. Cold blooded!

 

[hemo memo]

So Microsoft and Activision weren’t the problem but actually Bungie.

 

[hemo memo]

Or Sony are just that desperate for a peice of the gaas pie. I thought they bout but bungie for their ‘expertise’ in Gaas. Wanted them to ‘refine’ the other studios gaas game ideas. This was probably the worst way to spend 3.6 Bn. But bungies boss is laughing. I read somewhere the other day he spent 18 mill on cars pretty much after the aquisition and right before letting off a tonne of staff. Cold blooded!

Yeah, Sony went overboard with the idea of GaaS. They had multiple projects and bought a studio with an attractive GaaS shooter. They realized the plan was stupid, canceled the GaaS projects, but are now stuck with Bungie and a $3.6 billion investment. The guy retires, and now it’s another CEO’s problem. Brilliant, Jim.

 

[Chechack]

Im not surprised if Sony buying Bungie turns out to be one huge elaborate money laundering scam by some execs

 

[nikolino840]

That's the reason that i find stupid both larian and moon studios claiming on twitter that indipendent is better...acquisition is more better in this times

Also shawn layden

 

[ManaByte]

Microsoft considered acquiring Bungie and Sega to bolster Xbox Game Pass, internal emails show

Microsoft’s internal documents reveal gaming targets.

www.theverge.com

Bungie, a now Sony-owned studio, was on the list, with Microsoft’s internal document stating that the “acquisition of Bungie will include securing valuable IP, Destiny (and its community) and integration of its dev & live ops infrastructure into Xbox Game Studios.” Microsoft had identified a “high burn-rate” risk for Bungie, alongside NetEase’s $100 million minority stake investment in 2018.

He knew.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Looks like MS dodged a bullet, or vetted the acquisition more thoroughly than Sony did.

Jesus when even Microsoft says “nah this acquisition stinks” you know it had to be bad. This is the same company who bought Skype for $8.5 billion in 2011, the largest acquisition ever at the time.

 

[Mr Hyde]

Looks like MS dodged a bullet, or vetted the acquisition more thoroughly than Sony did.

This deal is so unbelievably bad it physically hurts my head.

3.6 billion$ for:

Layoffs + leadership mismanagement
Canceled TLOU2 live service game
High burn rate
Declining sales for Destiny and its expansions

And now Sony is cutting back on its live service plans. You can't make this shit up. Must easily be seen as the worst studio acquisition of all time.

 

[adamsapple]

Or Sony are just that desperate for a peice of the gaas pie. I thought they bout but bungie for their ‘expertise’ in Gaas. Wanted them to ‘refine’ the other studios gaas game ideas. This was probably the worst way to spend 3.6 Bn. But bungies boss is laughing. I read somewhere the other day he spent 18 mill on cars pretty much after the aquisition and right before letting off a tonne of staff. Cold blooded!

 

[yurinka]

Sony saved Bungie.

Misrepresentation of finances would mean a lawsuit

Yes, the Sony money saved Bungie.

Apparently there isn't misrepresentation of finances, instead just too optimistic estimations of Liftfall performance.

This deal is so unbelievably bad it physically hurts my head.

3.6 billion$ for:

Layoffs + leadership mismanagement
Canceled TLOU2 live service game
High burn rate
Declining sales for Destiny and its expansions

And now Sony is cutting back on its live service plans. You can't make this shit up. Must easily be seen as the worst studio acquisition of all time.

• Layoffs are normal after acquisitions and underperforming projects
• Lightfall underperformed but TFS has been a big success. Destiny 2 performance declines because it's normal at this point of it's lifecycle
• Helping Sony GaaS like MLB, GT7 and Helldivers 2 plus unreleased ones be more successful, making more money
• Helping Sony identify SIE GaaS that won't perform accordingly and cancel them or reduce investment on them before it's too late, saving money
• Marathon game & non-gaming adaptations
• Future Destiny games & non-gaming adaptations
• New IPs & teams like the one they moved to PS Studios incubated by the makers of Halo & Destiny

Very likely Sony will recoup the investment of the Bungie acquisition before the end of this generation, when they discontinue PS5.

I'm still scratching my head as to why they spent 3.6 fucking billion dollars on one studio.

They are the makers of Halo, the main IP of their direct competition, and the fastest selling new IP in gaming history: Destiny, whose sequel must have generated a few billions.

A studio that had a key role redefining/popularizing FPS, online MP and GaaS on console and is one of the key GaaS players in console and PC, so could help them with their "dozen IPs with GaaS" and "expanding to multiplatform" initiatives.

They had multiple games under development and were starting to work to adapt their IPs to movies/tv shows.

To buy Bungie for $2.4B was a good deal (plus $1.2B in retention bonuses, which part of them may not be paid).

 

[adamsapple]

Destiny 2 The Final Shape Reportedly Sold Fewer Copies Than Lightfall

Destiny 2’s latest expansion, The Final Shape, has reportedly sold fewer copies than its predecessor, Lightfall.

thegamepost.com

Sony Overpaid For Bungie, Former Bungie Employees Say​

In the latest newsletter (paywalled), one former Bungie employee told GameFile that The Final Shape expansion, despite getting praise from both fans and critics, failed to outperform Lightfall’s launch sales.

“And yet it sold less than Lightfall,” one former Bungie source told Totilo when comparing the launch sales numbers of the two expansions. “The financials just don’t work. Destiny is an incredibly expensive game to make.”

“I think Sony overpaid for Bungie,” one source told Totilo. “I think Bungie sold things they were just not able to deliver.”

According to three former Bungie sources, Bungie’s leaders “overstated their studio’s financial prospects to Sony, and Wednesday’s cuts were needed to stop continued losses that amounted to an ongoing reality check”, said Totilo in the newsletter.

Other sources said that Bungie failed to meet the financial targets it had promised to Sony and has incurred losses since the launch of the Destiny 2 expansion Lightfall in February 2023.

The underwhelming sales of The Final Shape come at a challenging time for Bungie. The company recently laid off 17% of its workforce, a significant reduction that has impacted various departments.

This decision was part of a broader restructuring effort aimed at addressing the studio’s financial difficulties as it plans to deepen its “integration with Sony Interactive Entertainment, working to integrate 155 of our roles, roughly 12%, into SIE over the next few quarters,” said CEO Pete Parsons in an article released earlier this week.

 

[simpatico]

Reminder: Sony has one of the most expensive M&A teams in the world. They did their homework on Bungie before spending 3.6B on them.

Reminder pt II: How do you get clicks?

Cost doesn't always equate to value. After all a few of their last big purchases were Bungie and Firewalk. Hard to see too much upside in owning either. But hey the team gets paid well at least.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Misrepresentation of finances would mean a lawsuit

That's how you know a lot of these people don't know what they're talking about or how M&A works. Sony would have looked at their financials and would have had a full understanding of their income historically and their costs.

The company simply hit a snag with a couple of titles and their ambitions.

After Halo Reach, they made Destiny, after Destiny they made Destiny 2.

Bungie was trying to make Destiny 2 DLC, Marathon, and other experimental titles at the same time. They ballooned in size in order to try to accomplish that and likely Lightfall didn't have enough people working on it or enough attention and it kicked off a cascade failure in terms of timing and deliverables.

Lightfall not being successful put all the attention on Final Shape but it was also highlighted by rumored reports of poor reception for Marathon. Difficult for a company like this to delay 2 titles immediately after having a previous title underperform.

Santa Monica studios had a similar situation. They had been working on a canceled non-God of War game, and then God of War Ascension underperformed severely.

If Marathon is successful it won't erase Bungie's problems, but they'll be back on a much better footing.