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[ChorizoPicozo]

Gran Turismo 7 is not a live service game.

but it is.

The GaaS initiative, however, was not inherent to the Bungie acquisition.

it was the other way around. Bungie's acquisition was inherent to the GaaS initiative. in other words; it was because their GaaS initiative that sony acquired Bungie.

And I already brought up the strong possibility of HD2 not being the exact same project as what originally started in 2016. I bet everything on the game massively changing once the GaaS initiative started to roll out in 2019.

you are missing the point. Every game suffers iterations and changes. the point is that Arrowhead was not a new studio and outside the PoV, the core mechanics were established in the first game. it's monetization was highly praised (opposite to Bungie's) and still Arrowhead struggled with content and balancing, also Sony with servers and the PSN account fiasco. all of that suggest an organic learning

You know Sony was producing Concord way before they acquired Firewalk, right?
Exactly the same case as what you said here:

nope. Firewalk was tied to probably monsters. arrowhead/HD can't be equated to firewalk/Concord whatsoever. (Sony had to buy the IP from Probably Monsters for example)

but let's assume you are right....you know what is the difference? .... that Sony acquired Firewalk.... and that game was a complete failure and the studio is now dead.

 

[awwr999999]

DS2 on Xbox after 6 months.

All Xbox has to do to have DualSense now is offer Xbox owners a free 'upgrade' to Windows11.
Sony allowing DualSense to work off of Sony's HW will go down as the biggest IP mismanagement in the history of gaming.
Adding a proprietary plug (DualShock2) would have given them something like 17 years of PlayStation having the best controller.
"Our new DualSense controller is going to revolutionize gaming - make sure it has USB-C and works on Windows."

 

[nial]

but it is.

It isn't, and Sony agrees.

it was the other way around. Bungie's acquisition was inherent to the GaaS initiative. in other words; it was because their GaaS initiative that sony acquired Bungie.

Right? I'm just saying that the GaaS initiative did not really depend on Bungie's future performance. Sony was absolutely ready for any moment in which they could shit the bed, the whole center of live service expertise or whatever was not a long-term plan, and the GaaS initiative would keep going anyway.

you are missing the point. Every game suffers iterations and changes. the point is that Arrowhead was not a new studio and outside the PoV, the core mechanics were established in the first game.

That's true, but I think you're underestimating the initiative's effect on Helldivers 2 and how it went on to be designed.

it's monetization was highly praised (opposite to Bungie's)

If you're implying that due to this, Bungie had zero input on Helldivers 2 compared to Concord, I wouldn't go that way. Post-purchase monetization was by far the most praised aspect of Concord, it's nothing different compared to Helldivers'.

and still Arrowhead struggled with content and balancing, also Sony with servers and the PSN account fiasco. all of that suggest an organic learning

I don't get what you're trying to tell me here, but k.

nope. Firewalk was tied to probably monsters. arrowhead/HD can't be equated to firewalk/Concord whatsoever. (Sony had to buy the IP from Probably Monsters for example)

but let's assume you are right....

You don't have to assume anything, I'm just correct.

PlayStation and Firewalk Studios announce publishing partnership for a new, original multiplayer IP

Firewalk’s AAA team sets its sights on creating memorable multiplayer moments for players.

blog.playstation.com

Concord wasn't produced by XDEV America without reason.

you know what is the difference? .... that Sony acquired Firewalk.... and that game was a complete failure and the studio is now dead.

Except that we don't really know if Sony didn't go to Arrowhead as well (which, looking at the acquisitions Sony did at the time, is totally plausible), and poor company insight is a tale as old as time.
What matters is that Sony still managed to score a win regarding the GaaS initiative this year (several ones if we count the MLB games, actually), so I really doubt it's something that they're deeply regretting, as much as people want to believe.

 

[Dafegamer]

That's where I was going, did you have this same concern when Santa Monica Studio cancelled Darkside back in 2014? And keep in mind that it was single-player, something that SMS is obviously good at. We know that TLOU Online was canned because ND didn't want to invest its development resources on a single GaaS project, while abandoning single-player games. And honestly, this is more on ND's local management than anything else, but I firmly believe that they do deserve a second chance.

First of all, even if you count Japan Studio (which was factually an internal restructuring, that's why you got fucking Astro Bot in the first place), it's just 5, not 6. And they literally did? They closed 4 whole studios in the span of 3 frickin' years! Three of them at the same time, even!

We know Sony is willing to give them another chance, so no worries until they finally release their new game; if that bombs ONCE AGAIN, it's sadly on Media Molecule.

I don't care about what you say. If Sony says that those games are first-party, then they are first-party. Plus, Hermen Hulst supervised both Rise of the Ronin and Stellar Blade, why would they not count, at all? You know his job is more of overseeing projects rather than managing studios, right? Local studio management exists for a reason.

Even if that actually happened, they would still be first-party. MLB The Show isn't suddenly not first-party just because it's multiplatform, you're bringing exclusivity out of nowhere here.
Death Stranding is still a first-party game, DS2's copyright doesn't state that it's produced by SIE without reason.

The blame for what? Because for what I'm seeing, Sony has been producing a fair amount of games once the Hulst-era projects started to roll out.

Who says I wasn't upset about the SMS situation? Trust me I was, I just wasn't a member on this board at the time, but boy trust me I definitely was. I would have laid out the same fire in calling out Sony's mishaps.





They closed Japan Studios(2021, a whole division of SIE btw, which is even worse, London Studios(2024) Pixel Opus(2023), Studio Manchester (2020), Firewalk(2024)
Neon Koi(2024, closed without a single game released, which is also worse) that's 6 Studios



If those games release on multiple devices (pc excluded) then those are third party releases. We don't call COD first party games, despite MS owning the IP or not? Maybe for you but first party has a different meaning for me.



Hulst took over in 2019, given that it takes 3 years in general to develop games at the least
Can you tell me all those game he greenlit that weren't cancelled or are in dev hell?

Returnal released in 2021, R&C released in 2021, GOW Ragnarok released in 2022, meaning the only possible known so far would be Spiderman 2 and GOW Ragnarok which would be a reach for the later that Hulst would be responsible for it

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

It isn't, and Sony agrees.

it is.

Gran Turismo 7 Has a "Really High Number of Active Users", Says Kazunori Yamauchi

Photo by Roger Sieber Since its release nearly two years ago, Gran Turismo 7 has seemingly performed well in PlayStation's largest and most important markets, but neither Polyphony Digital nor Sony has released any specific sales or player numbers. When series creator Kazunori Yamauchi was ask

www.gtplanet.net

Kazunori Yamauchi: Online code refactored for Gran Turismo 7 to expand features

Speaking at the World Finals of the 2022 Word Series in Monaco, Kazunori Yamauchi has revealed to Traxion.GG the challenges behind creating Gran Turismo 7's online system.

traxion.gg

Kazunori Yamauchi Responds to Gran Turismo 7 Fan Outrage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EuN_w133gg Following one of the most difficult days in the 25-year history of Gran Turismo, series founder Kazunori Yamauchi has released a statement to fans regarding the future of Gran Turismo 7 -- just two weeks into the title's life. The letter from Yamauc

www.gtplanet.net

"Sony’s leading live service game, Gran Turismo 7"...

"When you develop a software programme, the core code needs to be refactored every once in a while to accommodate new elements for the future,”

“We had to refactor everything which will allow for future advancements to the software.

“Now we have a clean code that we can expand upon and add more features to.”

“[Gran Turismo 7] has been a success, and we have been able to maintain a really high number of active users throughout the release. That’s something very unique to Gran Turismo that other titles have not been able to see,” Yamauchi-san explained.

“When we released the Spec II update, the number of active users jumped up to double of what it was before that,” Yamauchi-san revealed. “I’ve heard in the video game industry that is quite rare.”

Spec II introduced seven new cars, an all-new snowy rally track, new single-player content, a new rotating set of “Weekly Challenges”, new license tests, four-player split screen, Photomode and Scapes enhancements, and the introduction of the all-new AI system, Gran Turismo Sophy 2.0, as a special mode in the game.

It’s also worth noting that the update brought a small game economy change that — until it was patched out in v1.41 —.


from chat GPT :
characteristics of a a live service game
1. Regular Updates and Content Drops
2. In-Game Events and Season
3. Microtransactions and Monetization
4. Persistent and Evolving World
5. Community Engagement and Social Feature
7.Focus on Player Retention

... longer term point of view.
just like live/ongoing games.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.


GT7 is a damn live service game.

case closed let's move on

 

[Dafegamer]

Gran Turismo 7 is literally a service game. The devs even said it inherited Features of Gran Turismo Sport and implemented them into 7. It's as service as it gets.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Right? I'm just saying that the GaaS initiative did not really depend on Bungie's future performance

my dude. is the quotes i gave you. Bungie's acquisition was meant to shape sony's GaaS future.

Sony was absolutely ready for any moment in which they could shit the bed, the whole center of live service expertise or whatever was not a long-term plan, and the GaaS initiative would keep going anyway.

absolutely and categorically, NO

That's true, but I think you're underestimating the initiative's effect on Helldivers 2 and how it went on to be designed.

It's helldivers. as I said already. the core design is basically the same. and it's monetization has nothing to do with Bungie's

If you're implying that due to this, Bungie had zero input on Helldivers 2 compared to Concord, I wouldn't go that way. Post-purchase monetization was by far the most praised aspect of Concord, it's nothing different compared to Helldivers'.

the idea, the PR/Marketing beat about it was praised....the game lasted 2 weeks and from the beta there was already concerns about the amount of content avaliable and post lunch support.

I don't get what you're trying to tell me here, but k.

follow the conversation.

Bungie's acquisition was meant to acquire the lessons learned from Bungie to expedite Sony's GaaS success

this has been a complete falirue.

What matters is that Sony still managed to score a win regarding the GaaS initiative this year (several ones if we count the MLB games, actually), so I really doubt it's something that they're deeply regretting, as much as people want to believe.

no thanks to Bungie. which is the point.

 

[Thebonehead]

Who is Herman?

 

[coachmcguirk91]

I'm pretty sure it was at least partially owned by PlayStation (maybe fully?) because they helped fund his studio getting setup to make that first game. It seems to have done well enough over time that Kojima had the money to buy out the IP rights from Sony. From Software did something similar with Elden Ring a while back, buying the IP from Namco.

I wouldnt be surprised if this deal existed before Death Stranding was even developed. Where Sony would own the rights to the game for a set period of time before releasing it to Kojima.This happens in movies industry quite often. Given what happened to the Metal Gear franchise and Kojima, it would be a reasonable assumption.

Or, Sony just decided to give back the IP in exchange for a period of exclusive rights for future Kojima projects like DS2 and Physint. I would be shocked if DS2 does not have at least a 3 year console exclusivity window with Playstation, just given their track record

 

[nial]

Let's agree to disagree with GT, I don't really care either way.

my dude. is the quotes i gave you. Bungie's acquisition was meant to shape sony's GaaS future.


absolutely and categorically, NO

Bolded, in a way, yes, as it's a big live service focused studio.
Come on, why else would they tell Bungie that it would lose its autonony if results were less than stellar? It's definitely something that Sony was taking into account.

It's helldivers. as I said already. the core design is basically the same. and it's monetization has nothing to do with Bungie's

Which would confirm that monetization has generally nothing to do with Bungie? Exactly as evidenced with Concord.

the idea, the PR/Marketing beat about it was praised....the game lasted 2 weeks and from the beta there was already concerns about the amount of content avaliable and post lunch support.

Yeah, sorry, this ain't it. You can make this exact same argument with Helldivers 2.

follow the conversation.

Bungie's acquisition was meant to acquire the lessons learned from Bungie to expedite Sony's GaaS success

this has been a complete falirue.

Bungie's acquisition meant for exactly that is honestly big PR and I don't reallt see it as more than just another profitable asset for Sony. And actually, I think this kinda helps the notion that it was not a good acquisition, at all.

no thanks to Bungie. which is the point.

Neither was Concord a failure thanks to Bungie. Bungie's contribution to this whole initiative would be a big nothingburger at the end of the day, agree with that?

 

[nial]

Who says I wasn't upset about the SMS situation? Trust me I was, I just wasn't a member on this board at the time, but boy trust me I definitely was. I would have laid out the same fire in calling out Sony's mishaps.

To the point in which you would feel this strong about then-current leadership? I personally wouldn't think of one major project fumble as a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Shit happens.

They closed Japan Studios(2021, a whole division of SIE btw, which is even worse

You're not getting it, it being a whole division means that what happened was an internal reorganization. Pretty much every department is still around with most of the people still being employed.

London Studios(2024) Pixel Opus(2023), Studio Manchester (2020), Firewalk(2024)
Neon Koi(2024, closed without a single game released, which is also worse) that's 6 Studios

Fair, I did forget about Studio Manchester (which I strongly suspect was planned to be closed before November 2019, but whatever). It's 5-6 studios vs. 4.

If those games release on multiple devices (pc excluded) then those are third party releases. We don't call COD first party games, despite MS owning the IP or not? Maybe for you but first party has a different meaning for me.

Which, again, doesn't matter (and neither does my own perspective). Sony considers both to be first-party productions, so that's what they are.

Hulst took over in 2019, given that it takes 3 years in general to develop games at the least
Can you tell me all those game he greenlit that weren't cancelled or are in dev hell?

Returnal released in 2021, R&C released in 2021, GOW Ragnarok released in 2022, meaning the only possible known so far would be Spiderman 2 and GOW Ragnarok which would be a reach for the later that Hulst would be responsible for it

I already did, but k. I still don't get why you keep pretending that Astro Bot was not a thing.

Stellar Blade, Concord, Astro Bot, Until Dawn, Lego Horizon Adventures, Death Stranding 2: On the Beach, etc. here.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Bolded, in a way, yes,

not in a way. it was explicity stated by Jym Ryan.

as it's a big live service focused studio.

Nope. but as partner to help Sony achieve its GaaS ambitions.... as stated by Jim Ryan himself.

Come on, why else would they tell Bungie that it would lose its autonony if results were less than stellar? It's definitely something that Sony was taking into account.

why? because Sony was going to spent 3.6 Billion dollars.

Which would confirm that monetization has generally nothing to do with Bungie? Exactly as evidenced with Concord.

let's assume what you are saying is right. it would confirm the complete waste of Bungie's acquisition.

Yeah, sorry, this ain't it. You can make this exact same argument with Helldivers 2.

no. because HD2 lasted long enough to prove it's business model worked.

Bungie's acquisition meant for exactly that is honestly big PR and I don't reallt see it as more than just another profitable asset for Sony

it wasn't. this is why Sony basically had to take over. Bungie's cluster fuck/financial problems are pretty well reported at this point.

. And actually, I think this kinda helps the notion that it was not a good acquisition, at all.

"notion" uh?.

Thread 'Rumor: Sony leadership feels that Bungie is a failed investment' https://www.neogaf.com/threads/rumo...s-that-bungie-is-a-failed-investment.1668608/

"oh no it's just rumor"....sony had to step in to restructure Bungie and even take a development team away from them.

Neither was Concord a failure thanks to Bungie. Bungie's contribution to this whole initiative would be a big nothingburger at the end of the day, agree with that?

this is your issue:
you are trying to separate sony's GaaS initiative and Bungie's acquisition.

you can not do that.

what i am saying is that Sony didn't need Bungie to find success with GaaS games.

this:
Bungie's contribution to this whole initiative would be a big nothingburger

That is the fucking point.
Sony spent 3.6 Billions for NOTHING but problems.

agree with that?

 

[Dafegamer]

You're not getting it, it being a whole division means that what happened was an internal reorganization. Pretty much every department is still around with most of the people still being employed.

You would have a point if Team Asobi would be consisting of like hundreds of devs, but Team Asobi only has 60+ devs(80??) japan studio had like 500+ (maybe even reaching the 1000s)employees, that would've been a extreme "reorganization" then

I already did, but k. I still don't get why you keep pretending that Astro Bot was not a thing.

As I've said I'm well aware of ASTRO BOT, still can you name other significant games? I bet you can't, which would prove my point

 

[saintjules]

 

[Clear]

Seriously, does anyone think that the Death Stranding brand has much value beyond its connection with KojiPro?

Would a sequel/spin-off made by another dev generate the same interest?

For me, the answer is obviously not.

Which begs the question as to why would Sony want to hold onto the IP in opposition to its creator? It would make no sense, whatsoever.

We've seen how the market reacted to MGS minus Kojima. and that franchise is a way less flaky proposition than DS.

The way some people have reacted to what amounts to contractual renegotiation between Sony and Kojipro, is just so juvenile. Kojima is no doubt a pretty wealthy guy, but there's no way he can fund his own large-scale projects. He's always going to go where the money is, and who's willing to offer him a deal that he finds acceptable.

Keeping the relationship healthy is way more important than the ownership of a particular IP when that IP is inextricably linked with one of the partners. The funding relationship is what's going to dictate release pattern way more than who actually owns the IP.

 

[begotten]

I think its the only way KojiPro even survives. They need to own their IP and have it everywhere, even Physint & Overdose.

Seriously this new KojiPro has been around for like 10 years now, how are they even making money? Partnership money isn't going to support their cadence and the unneccessarily fancy looking studio they work in forever.

10 years and Death Stranding is all they have to show. They've probably made more $ from the first couple of years when they were selling random KojiPro merchandise from hype than from Death Stranding. Overdose is garunteed not to do anything and DS2 might let them make some new hires if it's everywhere.

 

[Markio128]

I came in to read peoples thoughts on this surprising turn of events, only to immediately have to check that I was in the right thread after reading various comments about whether GT7 is gaas or not.

Never change GAF

 

[MiguelItUp]

As it should, happy for Kojima.

 

[A.Romero]

Why are people acting as if the first game didn't go to PC and iPhones? What's wrong with you people?

No idea. Probably because it's Xbox in particular

 

[peronmls]

No, because DS2 is still funded, produced and published by SIE.

I'm talking about after DS2.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Seriously, does anyone think that the Death Stranding brand has much value beyond its connection with KojiPro?

Would a sequel/spin-off made by another dev generate the same interest?

For me, the answer is obviously not.

Which begs the question as to why would Sony want to hold onto the IP in opposition to its creator? It would make no sense, whatsoever.

We've seen how the market reacted to MGS minus Kojima. and that franchise is a way less flaky proposition than DS.

The way some people have reacted to what amounts to contractual renegotiation between Sony and Kojipro, is just so juvenile. Kojima is no doubt a pretty wealthy guy, but there's no way he can fund his own large-scale projects. He's always going to go where the money is, and who's willing to offer him a deal that he finds acceptable.

Keeping the relationship healthy is way more important than the ownership of a particular IP when that IP is inextricably linked with one of the partners. The funding relationship is what's going to dictate release pattern way more than who actually owns the IP.

Finally, some common business sense for a change.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

You would have a point if Team Asobi would be consisting of like hundreds of devs, but Team Asobi only has 60+ devs(80??) japan studio had like 500+ (maybe even reaching the 1000s)employees, that would've been a extreme "reorganization" then

This is not true.

You're confusing SCEI HQ which moved to the US and Japan Studios.

They were never that big. I'm not even sure where you would begin to think they were that big. There's a reason why they weren't able to make really big games and why they struggled to produce games like Last Guardian.

You primarily had 4 teams

Siren Team
Team ICO
Asobi
XDEV Japan

Team ICO became GenDesign and Siren Team became Bokeh Game Studio

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Seriously, does anyone think that the Death Stranding brand has much value beyond its connection with KojiPro?

Would a sequel/spin-off made by another dev generate the same interest?

For me, the answer is obviously not.

Which begs the question as to why would Sony want to hold onto the IP in opposition to its creator? It would make no sense, whatsoever.

We've seen how the market reacted to MGS minus Kojima. and that franchise is a way less flaky proposition than DS.

The way some people have reacted to what amounts to contractual renegotiation between Sony and Kojipro, is just so juvenile. Kojima is no doubt a pretty wealthy guy, but there's no way he can fund his own large-scale projects. He's always going to go where the money is, and who's willing to offer him a deal that he finds acceptable.

Keeping the relationship healthy is way more important than the ownership of a particular IP when that IP is inextricably linked with one of the partners. The funding relationship is what's going to dictate release pattern way more than who actually owns the IP.

Yes, I think this just speaks to the fact that Sony sees the Death Stranding IP as a two-game series. What value does the IP hold to them after DS2 if they aren't going to continue funding the games? Not much.

So there was some sort of business arrangement/deal made between KojiPro and Sony as a result. We don't know the terms. We do know that they must have been favorable to both sides as they continue working together in the future.

I see this as practically a non-issue. Although I am curious if Sony gets any cut/proceeds from the game coming to PC and/or Xbox. I guess we'll never know.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

DS2 on Xbox after 6 months.

doubt it

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Go fuck yourself Herman you stupid cunt

or

.exe

 

[Gamerguy84]

I started this game last night.. It is one beautiful game. Very impressed with the graphics.

 

[FoxMcChief]

I started this game last night.. It is one beautiful game. Very impressed with the graphics.

The engine is fantastic to look at. Gameplay tied to the engine, not so much.

 

[Danjin44]

God I wish Vanillaware would do the same with Muramasa.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Giving a creator back his intertlectual property is nothing but a good thing, when you break it down.

It's like giving a musician their masters.

Gg Sony i say.

 

[Dafegamer]

This is not true.

You're confusing SCEI HQ which moved to the US and Japan Studios.

They were never that big. I'm not even sure where you would begin to think they were that big. There's a reason why they weren't able to make really big games and why they struggled to produce games like Last Guardian.

You primarily had 4 teams

Siren Team
Team ICO
Asobi
XDEV Japan

Team ICO became GenDesign and Siren Team became Bokeh Game Studio

Here is the Archive page of Japan Studios
"Over 400 People at Japan Studios" and this was in 2013, before Japan Studios went on a huge hiring spree and worked on multiple new original IP(sadly most unannounced and cancelled) under new Leadership of the Head of the guy who directed Puppeteer for PS3
Trust me, I'm not making these numbers up. I always try to Fact Check before I post my opinions

 

[nial]

I'm talking about after DS2.

Same case with Physint, you're looking at the next decade at this point (and that's assuming Sony, or any other major publisher for that matter, doesn't work with him anymore).

You would have a point if Team Asobi would be consisting of like hundreds of devs, but Team Asobi only has 60+ devs(80??) japan studio had like 500+ (maybe even reaching the 1000s)employees, that would've been a extreme "reorganization" then

I did not expect such a clueless take as this when you brought up the fact that Japan Studio was a division; given that Team Asobi was a reorganization of the internal development department, it means that the rest of the departments would stay the same for the most part. That's where your 500+ employees come from.

As I've said I'm well aware of ASTRO BOT, still can you name other significant games? I bet you can't, which would prove my point

Ok, Ghost of Yotei? Yep, I absolutely can't name it, you got me.
Nice goalpost moving, btw. Who cares about this meaningless "significant" trait when stuff like Stellar Blade and DS2 add a welcomed variety of style and gameplay to PSS' output? You already said before that you cared about the games, not about Sony's profits.

 

[CuteFaceJay]

I'm confused, wasn't this IP always belonged to Kojima?

that's what I thought. Production didn't start while he was at Komoney did it?

 

[nial]

Here is the Archive page of Japan Studios
"Over 400 People at Japan Studios" and this was in 2013, before Japan Studios went on a huge hiring spree and worked on multiple new original IP(sadly most unannounced and cancelled) under new Leadership of the Head of the guy who directed Puppeteer for PS3
Trust me, I'm not making these numbers up. I always try to Fact Check before I post my opinions

My previous post works enough as a response to this, but I'd just like to point out that by 2013, the production groups had already suffered from significant loss of talent; including The Last Guardian's director, Fumito Ueda.
Also, it wasn't the director of Puppeteer and Demon's Souls 2020, Gavin Moore, who became the head of the division, but rather Allan Becker, famous for previously establishing Santa Monica Studio.

 

[Dafegamer]

Same case with Physint, you're looking at the next decade at this point (and that's assuming Sony, or any other major publisher for that matter, doesn't work with him anymore).

I did not expect such a clueless take as this when you brought up the fact that Japan Studio was a division; given that Team Asobi was a reorganization of the internal development department, it means that the rest of the departments would stay the same for the most part. That's where your 500+ employees come from.

Ok, Ghost of Yotei? Yep, I absolutely can't name it, you got me.
Nice goalpost moving, btw. Who cares about this meaningless "significant" trait when stuff like Stellar Blade and DS2 add a welcomed variety of style and gameplay to PSS' output? You already said before that you cared about the games, not about Sony's profits.

Any CEO can just pay other devs to develop (timed?) exclusives for them. Phil Spencer did the same, yet it didn't stop people from criticizing how he handled MS First Party Studios. The point I'm making is, for some reason people think Hermen Hulst is immune from criticism, while its ok to call out Phil Spencer all the time. It shouldn't be controversial to say that the way Hulst has handled Sony's own in-house devs regarding game releases, has been abysmal so far. They really misjudged the reliance on gaas, over their established mastery of great single player games, even putting most of their FP funding towards Service Games(55%). Now that the results are showing it's been a misfire so far with the cancellation of games and closure of Studios. Sony also not having a roadmap makes it worse I'll admit.

 

[Dafegamer]

My previous post works enough as a response to this, but I'd just like to point out that by 2013, the production groups had already suffered from significant loss of talent; including The Last Guardian's director, Fumito Ueda.
Also, it wasn't the director of Puppeteer and Demon's Souls 2020, Gavin Moore, who became the head of the division, but rather Allan Becker, famous for previously establishing Santa Monica Studio.

I admit I got it mixed up, Gavin Moore became Creative Director of Japan Studios, and yes Allen Becker as Studio Head. Still Japan Studios was the biggest Gaming company of sony with over 400+ employees at the time. They lost more than 80% of their staff after the "reorganization"

 

[Stu_Hart]

Kojima can keep that IP. It's one of the most boring games I've played. For me, it will be remembered as a good sleeping pill as I would play it at night till I get sleepy.

 

[nial]

I admit I got it mixed up, Gavin Moore became Creative Director of Japan Studios, and yes Allen Becker as Studio Head. Still Japan Studios was the biggest Gaming company of sony with over 400+ employees at the time. They lost more than 80% of their staff after the "reorganization"

No, because you keep ignoring whatever I tell you.

I did not expect such a clueless take as this when you brought up the fact that Japan Studio was a division; given that Team Asobi was a reorganization of the internal development department, it means that the rest of the departments would stay the same for the most part. That's where your 500+ employees come from.

 

[nial]

Any CEO can just pay other devs to develop (timed?) exclusives for them.

It's not as simple as that, what you're mentioning are simple paid third-party exclusives such as Final Fantasy VII Rebirth that don't see much (or any) involvement of Sony.
If Sony is producing and publishing the game, they take the responsibility of funding and management of the project, it's no different from any game of their internal studios in that they still have to oversee everything that's going with the project.

Phil Spencer did the same, yet it didn't stop people from criticizing how he handled MS First Party Studios.

From what I remember MS barely did that, but I don't care that much, honestly. I haven't paid attention to Xbox for a while.

The point I'm making is, for some reason people think Hermen Hulst is immune from criticism, while its ok to call out Phil Spencer all the time.

Who? If anything, people shit on Hulst way too much and most of the time for stuff that isn't even up to him. I've seen folks blaming him for things like the PS5 Pro pricing, while he has absolutely nothing to do with that.

It shouldn't be controversial to say that the way Hulst has handled Sony's own in-house devs regarding game releases, has been abysmal so far.

Ok, please tell me which Sony studios you believe have done a poor job in getting their projects out, and please take into account current conditions regarding game development cycles.

They really misjudged the reliance on gaas, over their established mastery of great single player games, even putting most of their FP funding towards Service Games(55%).

Way too overblown when that obviously includes Bungie's funding (which isn't anything small, even when it comes to supporting released games). The idea that they were abandoning single-player projects is ridiculous.

Now that the results are showing it's been a misfire so far with the cancellation of games and closure of Studios.

It was nothing perfect, but that's the nature of the market and Sony already knew it. They were clear in that they just needed a few big hits to make up for the entire initiative, and what's most important is that these games should be generating continuous revenue going forward as opposed to their SP titles. I don't really blame them for going that route, especially when basically everyone did.

Sony also not having a roadmap makes it worse I'll admit.

Roadmap for what?

 

[Dafegamer]

No, because you keep ignoring whatever I tell you.

Ok, so where did the rest go? They had to be relocated to somewhere or not?

 

[nial]

Ok, so where did the rest go? They had to be relocated to somewhere or not?

Nowhere? They're departments, they just stay there (or for that matter, move onto new offices).
You think Japan Studio was an actual company with its own HQs and everything? My man, it was just an internal organization of SIEJ, it was all within the Tokyo headquarters.

 

[Dafegamer]

Who? If anything, people shit on Hulst way too much and most of the time for stuff that isn't even up to him. I've seen folks blaming him for things like the PS5 Pro pricing, while he has absolutely nothing to do with that.

I'm not blaming him for the PS5Pro, all my frustrations towards him is mostly geared to the FP output of Sony own studios in recent times

Ok, please tell me which Sony studios you believe have done a poor job in getting their projects out, and please take into account current conditions regarding game development cycles.

ND releasing TLOU1 remake, instead of a new IP for PS5 as their first game on the Platform. The most unnecessary remake ever as TLOU1 is still perfectly playable. It's not even a RE2REMAKE style remake with significant changes to gameplay. I won't even bring up all the remastered that the Sony studios released.

Way too overblown when that obviously includes Bungie's funding (which isn't anything small, even when it comes to supporting released games). The idea that they were abandoning single-player projects is ridiculous.

Nobody said that they abandoned the single players, just that the majority funding being put into something they had no prior experience with, instead of taking careful steps. We've seen how that has affected their overall FP output, which is undeniable at this point

Roadmap for what?

Again, I'll stop responding after this cause I'm feeling like this is meaningless. You know exactly what I mean with Roadmap. We know almost nothing about their games for 2025 or beyond. Before Sony would at least release teasers reassuring that new games in either new or established franchises are being worked on, but they stopped doing that with the PS5 era. The only thing we know is Ghost of Yotei, Fairgames(no gameplay footage)and Death Stranding if you still want to count that as first party. Nothing from Media Molecule, ND, SMS, Housemarque etc. Only leaked stuff or guesses from Job Postings. Again before you bring random games, all my post are regarding their "in-house Devs"

Nial I really like you as a poster and love the conversation we have in the ASTRO BOT threads, but it's clear I'm not as enthusiastic or forgiving like you regarding PlayStation at the moment. I see how you often dismiss other members concerns when it comes to PlayStation in other threads, which is fine of course, but keep in mind that not everyone has the same tolerance. We are 4 years in and it feels like the bad news overshadow the good news from PlayStation lately. Of course there's gems like Returnal, Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart, God of War Ragnarok, but those games are the fruits and leftovers of the previous first party leadership before Hulst took over. I was very enthusiastic in the years 2020-2022, but I then realized that things are starting to crumble with constant delays/cancellations, studio closures, Sony's unwillingness to showcase their first party games, being very "tight lipped", now there's even the case of losing games that were previously considered first party IPs. I'm sorry but it's the back and forth of bad news that is kinda hard to ignore at this point. I hope they will at least deliver at the TGA but it is what it is. That's how I feel at the moment. You can reply and dismantle my posts again if you want but my opinion won't change until I see reassuring things or decisions from Sony.... For now

 

[Dafegamer]

Nowhere? They're departments, they just stay there (or for that matter, move onto new offices).
You think Japan Studio was an actual company with its own HQs and everything? My man, it was just an internal organization of SIEJ, it was all within the Tokyo headquarters.

If that's the case then thanks for correcting

 

[nial]

We know almost nothing about their games for 2025 or beyond. Before Sony would at least release teasers reassuring that new games in either new or established franchises are being worked on, but they stopped doing that with the PS5 era.

The thing is that they have a roadmap (of at least 4 games confirmed for next year), but it's maybe not what you exactly want, and that's ok. I could address the rest, but I think we'll just keep going in circles, so I'll leave it there.
Sorry if I could come across as harsh, I don't dislike you and I don't mind having long ass discussions. Knowing that you like me as a poster was touching, and I do think the same for you, cheers!

 

[skylight]

Also, more importantly, Kojima has the rights to Physint (planned Metal Gear successor).

I didn't know about Physint. When are we expecting a release? Considering he is working on Death Stranding 2 and OD...

 

[VolticArchangel]

DS2 on Xbox after 6 months.

DS2 (and even Physint tbh but we will stick to DS2 for the argument now) are 100% coming to Xbox and Switch 2, but no way in 6 months. That would only be the PC and Mac versions.

My guess would be the same timed exclusive deal, 5 years, and it would launch in 2030 on the Nextbox and Switch 2.