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[VN1X]

But VN1X just threw down the gauntlet when he posted a video challenging the Islamic position lol. This thread is supposed to be about Christianity. When dogma wars start breaking out then so are the bans. Just saying of course.

Ah it only comes from a place of understanding and learning tbh. It's not as if Islam is something that's foreign to the west and something Christians have to deal with. It's important to know the differences and the beliefs of other people.

That said I'm not well versed in either position yet so I'm still on my journey of learning myself so you won't find me 'throwing down the gauntlet' lol. And please lets keep things civil here? Why even bring up bans in the first place. :/

 

[Dice]

So I think it is pretty easy to see Christianity has many different sects with very different perspectives. Traditions of apostolic succession differ greatly from protestant strains, yet each also have their own divisions and debates among themselves other over what the correct view is and what one must do or not do in order to be considered believing God and properly obeying him to satisfactory level. I think it is nearly impossible to really claim that which position is correct is easy to discern and prove to others.

Rather, there is a great cloud of best guesses and each person is choosing that which is most convincing to them. However, if one is merely inferring ultimate truth and selecting for themselves what seems most reasonable, effectively making themselves their own authority on ultimate truth, this is actively contradicting the very nature of a religion based on divine revelation. The whole point of the revelation is to clarify truth in a manner that supersedes all our confusion and guessing, to keep authority in God. The testimony and evidences for the gospel are touted strongly, yet what to do about the gospel to be a real Christian has become matters of deep contention in every single facet.

So here we run into the primary twofold problem that Christianity faces. First, if God went to such incomprehensibly great lengths to cross the chasm between us and him, becoming human, dying for our sins, granting the Holy Spirit, preserving the evidences of the passion of Christ, authoritatively establishing the Church through many miracles done by his apostles and such, then why have things now reached a place where it seems everyone is left clueless and guessing? If the love of God does not change, why does it seem that his level of effort to clarify and guide the Church in unity has?

Second, regardless of how you answer that, it would seem by the fact Christians are so confused and divided and best-guessing their way through it all, he doesn't seem to much care if they are actually able to figure out the correct way to believe and be Christian. It is either less defined than anyone thinks, or failure is simply met with so much mercy that the defined path is left unclear because he covers for it. However, this would seem to contradict the message of the bible, wherein a message of strictness seems pretty evident among his apostles. So, similar to the first part, if God in the bible seems to care so much about his standards for Christians, why does he seem so ineffectual to get the message through to them?

For both of these, even disregarding the presence or absence of miraculous intervening efforts on his part, it would seem that he has made everything involved, made humans to be and think and function as they do, made language as a primary means of learning, divinely inspired the specific message intended to effect learning among the creatures he designed to receive that lingual message, and granted believers his Holy Spirit to convict, guide, and inspire them concerning the correct interpretation. All of this does not seem to be a recipe for failure, yet here the religion stands terribly divided and confused among itself as to what the true form of it is, which is not a result expected from a religion of revelation, much less one of internal divine enlightenment of the revelation (example Luke 24:45).

What are your thoughts on these quandaries? If God still loves the world, why are we here?

 

[King Dazzar]

If God still loves the world, why are we here?

I would never assume to know God's plan. But my understanding is that this is a time of grace with God and that it wont remain that way. Things are to get much, much worse, before they get better.

 

[Dice]

I would never assume to know God's plan. But my understanding is that this is a time of grace with God and that it wont remain that way. Things are to get much, much worse, before they get better.

Okay but if such is the case, do you think said absence of clarity for Christians will end and some sort of authoritative verification will establish itself? Granted, capacity for doubt is infinite, so you will never remove all possibility of alternative, but as I described you have the issue of all well-intentioned followers unable to prove their case of chosen best-guess rubbing against supposed revelation even after decades of personal education and study trying to find the “true” Christianity.

 

[-Minsc-]

But VN1X just threw down the gauntlet when he posted a video challenging the Islamic position lol. This thread is supposed to be about Christianity. When dogma wars start breaking out then so are the bans. Just saying of course.

I typically gloss over the majority of the posted videos, for better or for worse. If I sense they are trying to prove Christianity or tear down another view then I'll use a rule of thumb and consider it not worth my time.

 

[King Dazzar]

Okay but if such is the case, do you think said absence of clarity for Christians will end and some sort of authoritative verification will establish itself? Granted, capacity for doubt is infinite, so you will never remove all possibility of alternative, but as I described you have the issue of all well-intentioned followers unable to prove their case of chosen best-guess rubbing against supposed revelation even after decades of personal education and study trying to find the “true” Christianity.

For me that's all about getting lost in the detail which isn't a priority for me. As my granddad used to say, there should be less Catholics and Protestants and more Christians. With the limited, but generally good interactions I've had with the different churches. People may choose to focus on one aspect of Christ more than another, but I've found there's common ground for all. And not everyone is pushing there own personal interpretation of things or struggling to find clarification. I've usually found the opposite. Maybe I've just been lucky. There certainly has been a couple of times when I've wondered about something a church may be saying or why they think about something in a particular way. And I've enjoyed exploring it. But in general its not been an issue or a need for me to agonise over.

My spiritual journey has been very much focused on allowing God to show me the way and communing with Christ and God. I definitely hit challenging moments of thought along the way or bits which I seek more wisdom on. And whilst at times it can be great to get other peoples perspective and insight and explore what a church may have to say. My relationship with God, Christ and the Bible has been enough to give me the clarity I need as I progress.

 

[Chaplain]

New Resources:





Video: How Can I Be Happier? - Part 1 - Simon Edwards

In the relentless chase for happiness, are we missing the profound truth that fulfillment lies beyond the material wealth? Delve into the elusive nature of contentment in our modern world and discover timeless biblical wisdom that provides insights and solutions.

Video: How Can I Be Happier? - Part 2 - Simon Edwards

We all want to be happy. Studies show that there is a direct link between happiness and a feeling of meaning or purpose. In part two of this talk, Simon explores how according to the Bible, the secret to happiness, meaning and purpose is scandalously simple.

Video: Is it justified to be afraid of dying? - John Wyatt OBQs 13/10/23



Video: C.S. Lewis on Progress, AI, and Gender - with Annie Crawford

I had a great discussion with Annie Crawford. She’s written two wonderful articles for the Symbolic World Blog and is offering a course on C.S. Lewis’ Ransom Trilogy on the Symbolic World website. Check out our discussion about C.S. Lewis, AI, progress, gender, laughter, science, and the mystical.

Video: Understanding Islam: The Life and Work of Muhammad - Peter Saunders interviews Jay Smith

Muslim tradition teaches that Muhammad was born in Mecca, and then moved to Medina (both in central Arabia) in 622 A.D., and that during this period he received the Qur’an and became the paradigm for the Islamic religion practiced today. But what do other historical sources reveal? This webinar will evaluate the historical record of Muhammad using evidence from the 7th century and before and comparing it with traditional teaching.

Video: Molly Worthen: The conversion of an agnostic professor of religion to Christianity

Molly Worthen is a journalist and associate professor of history at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. For the past decade she has pursued a career researching the religious and intellectual history of North America. As well as writing books such as 'Apostles of Reason: The Crisis of Authority in American Evangelicalism', she is regular contributor to publications such as the New York Times, The Atlantic and The New Yorker.

 

[Chaplain]

New Resources:

Video: Weird and Weirder — Why the West is So Different

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,” says the Declaration of Independence. But is it really self-evident? What is the basis of equality? How have we come to think the way we do about the world? Glen Scrivener and Andrew Wilson discuss the making of the Western Mind and discuss how we became WEIRD (Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, Democratic) as they trace the history of the West up to 1776. They make the case that far from being neutral, or self-evident, the values which many hold dear in the West today can be traced back through figures like Luther, Augustine, Paul, and ultimately to Jesus. They show that in spite of its secular pretensions the West remains a place thoroughly shaped and marked by a Christian worldview. So are we really post-Christian? Or is Christianity the only framework that can really make sense of the things we value most?

Video: Why I believe in God: John Lennox interviewed by Dr. Amy Orr-Ewing

In a Premier Unbelievable special, celebrating his 80th birthday, the indomitable Christian apologist, Emeritus Professor of Mathematics at the University of Oxford, and renowned ethicist, Dr. John Lennox, engages in a candid and unreserved interview with fellow Christian apologist and Oxford-educated theologian, Dr. Amy Orr-Ewing. A long-standing friend of Unbelievable, John delves into his life journey, from a childhood in Ireland, to studying Mathematics at University of Cambridge, speaking and defending his Christian faith from Russian to East Germany, and his electrifying debates with formidable atheists such as Richard Dawkins, Peter Atkins, Christopher Hitchens and Peter Singer. This illuminating discussion also delves into the AI and the future of humanity, the problem of evil and other profound questions that continue to captivate the minds of believers and sceptics alike.

Video: Why Would a Good God Allow Suffering? - Alanzo Paul

"Amidst life's adversity, can we find comfort in connection with God? ... Heartfelt questions deserve thoughtful answers. Join us as we explore issues of life, philosophy, meaning, and faith..."

Video: The Roots and Rise of Antisemitism - Revelation 12:1-12

Around the world and close to home, protesters are taking their rhetoric against the Jewish community to the streets. Violent language and calls to actions targeting Israel are no longer hidden but spoken aloud for all to hear. In this message, Skip Heitzig discusses the rise of antisemitism with Johnnie Moore and God's protection of His people from Bible times to present day.

Video: Disney at 100. Has it still got the power to enchant us?

This October marks Disney’s 100th birthday. Since Disney are in the ‘enchantment’ business, we're dedicating a special episode to discussing its cultural impact. Two guests join Belle and Justin. Yaroslav Sky-Walker is the assistant Priest of Holy Trinity Church, Sloane Square In his spare time, Yaroslav reads theology and writes slightly histrionic film reviews… many of which you can find on Seen and Unseen. Esmé Partridge is a writer and MPhil candidate in the Philosophy of Religion at the University of Cambridge. She also works at the intersection of religion and politics, focusing on religious freedom and interfaith relations.

 

[Chaplain]

New resources:

Do Science and Faith Mix? - John Lennox

“They mix very well” is the opinion of physicist and Christian John Lennox. In this video, John explores the history, limits, and nature of science, and argues that faith in God is perfectly compatible with scientific inquiry. Atheism and science, however, may not sit together so comfortably.

What About Other Religions?

Is Christianity exclusive, or is there room for other religions in a Christian view of God? Sara Stevenson explores concepts such as pluralism, exclusivity and the unique role of Jesus as she questions whether Christianity offers an exclusive path to truth.

How Can Anyone Believe in a Dead Man Rising?

Is the resurrection of Jesus merely wishful thinking? Simon Edwards questions the evidence for an event that stands as a lynchpin to Christianity and explores whether any alternative explanations can withstand scrutiny. Is the resurrection of Jesus a matter of faith or fact?

Why Trust the Bible?

Issues of patriarchy, power and historical accuracy are just some of the objections to the Bible’s trustworthiness. Making the case for the Bible’s textual integrity by analysing the evidence, Clare Williams shares how its story is ultimately about one central figure – Jesus who came to save.

Is the Bible Good News for Women?

Christianity claims to be good news, but is this the case for women? Lara Buchanan opens up the Bible to see how the Christian story offers a message of equality and empowerment.

Why Would A Good God Allow Suffering?

No matter who we are or what we believe, the reality of suffering is something we all have to deal with. Delving into theological and philosophical perspectives on this complex issue, Alanzo Paul explores this topic from the logical problem of evil, to the deep significance of Christ’s suffering and resurrection.

Jesus and the Failures of the Church

From scandals and injustices to remarkable contributions, Sam Allberry explores the complex tapestry of church history.

Alistair Begg - The Role of the Holy Spirit

In this episode, Jonny Ardavanis sits down with Alistair Begg, the founder of the Truth For Life and discuses the role of the Holy Spirit

Edited

 

[Chaplain]

New Resources:

Video: Q&A on John Lennox's Latest Book - A Good Return

In this Q&A, John Lennox discusses his book "A Good Return," addressing the secular-sacred divide in work. He emphasizes the importance of all professions from a Christian perspective, advocates for integrity, encourages critical thinking, and explains what "witnessing" looks like in the workplace.

Video: Glen Scrivener: Why Christianity made us believe in Kindness, Equality & Progress

Glen Scrivener is an author, speaker, filmmaker and director of the charity Speak Life. His most recent book ’The Air We Breathe’ has been widely praised as a guide to ‘how we all came to believe in freedom, kindness, progress and equality’.Glen’s book is a whistle stop tour of 2,000 years of history showing why it was the Christian revolution that gave the West its moral instincts on compassion, equality, consent, freedom and progress.

Video: What is God Like?

Dr. Craig kicks off a new animation series examining the attributes of God. What is God really like? What attributes does he have? Why are they important for us to know?

Video: John Lennox Unlocks the Truth about AI, Consciousness, and God (Must-See Insights!)

In this Practical Wisdom special, renowned apologist and Oxford mathematician John Lennox reveals the truth about Artificial Intelligence (AI), consciousness, and our understanding of God. What is the truth about AI and its implications on our understanding of consciousness and the divine? Join us for this thought-provoking conversation! Discover the latest advancements in AI and how they intersect with our beliefs and perceptions of the world. John Lennox sheds light on the ethical, philosophical, and existential questions arising from this technological revolution and explores new perspectives on AI's role in our lives, the nature of consciousness, and the profound connection to spirituality and God.

Video: A Conversation About God | Dr. John Lennox | EP 394

Dr. Jordan B Peterson sits down with mathematician, author, and theologian Dr. John Lennox. They discuss the axioms and dangerous aims of transhumanism, the interplay between ethical faith, reason, and the empirical world that makes up the scientific endeavor, and the line between luciferian intellectual presumption and wise courageous exploration.
(0:00) Coming up
(0:33) Intro
(1:19) The “unbridgeable gap” between science and Christianity
(5:46) Is the human soul a microcosm of the cosmos?
(10:01) Evidence of a Creator, a “word-based universe”
(15:01) Truth exists
(18:03) Statistical analysis, the ethical dimension of science
(23:41) Prioritization of facts is done through ethics
(26:18) Thought and time: from where does the revelation spring?
(33:23) Transhumanism: an extension of demented protestantism
(37:18) The death of God, the death of man
(43:28) The weight of being, the problem of physical death
(46:37) You cannot breed for evolutionary fitness
(50:24) Third Wave Biology, Questioning Darwin
(52:59) The wisdom not to cross the line
(59:27) Knowing good and evil vs. defining it as subjective
(1:02:04) The three sources of moral knowledge
(1:04:03) The basis for human dignity
(1:09:48) Sacrifice and maturity
(1:15:17) The female crucifixion
(1:18:18) Death is not the end
(1:19:51) Voluntary exposure to build strength
(1:24:34) Lazarus, leaving the darkness

 

[Liljagare]

I still cannot believe in a God that tells me to kill the enemies of my faith, or the children of my enemies, or the firstborns of my enemies, which unfortunately includes the faith of Jesus and Christianity. :\

 

[Chaplain]

I still cannot believe in a God that tells me to kill the enemies of my faith, or the children of my enemies, or the firstborns of my enemies, which unfortunately includes the faith of Jesus and Christianity. :\

Jesus never taught anyone to kill in His name.

"I am utterly ashamed that the name of Christ has ever been associated with an AK-47 or a terrorist bomb. Those who pick up weapons to defend Christianity are not following Christ, they are DISOBEYING Him... One of the central historical features of the New Testament is the trial of Jesus. It is crucially important, and I discussed this with the late Christopher Hitchens. I said: Christopher, I agree with you. This is the unacceptable face of religion. But don’t you realize that it’s the charge of fomenting political violence that put Jesus on trial in the first place? He was accused of terrorism, to put it in modern language. ... When Pilate investigated him, he knew, of course, that Jesus had not resisted arrest. When Simon Peter took a sword to swipe the head off the high priest’s servant, he wasn’t very good and he cut his ear off. Now, if I might say something about that: I believe Jesus put the ear back on, but you would be very poetically dim not to see what’s being said. If you take up weapons to defend Christ or his message, you cut the ears off of people in a big way." (Oxford Professor John Lennox)

 

[Liljagare]

Jesus never taught anyone to kill in His name.

Christianity as a religion itself says to kill a whole lot of people, how do you build peace on earth with this, I for one, cannot stand behind any of this.

2 Chronicles 15:12-13 ESV
And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.

Luke 19:27 ESV
But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’”

Deuteronomy 17:1-20 ESV
“You shall not sacrifice to the Lord your God an ox or a sheep in which is a blemish, any defect whatever, for that is an abomination to the Lord your God. “If there is found among you, within any of your towns that the Lord your God is giving you, a man or woman who does what is evil in the sight of the Lord your God, in transgressing his covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have forbidden, and it is told you and you hear of it, then you shall inquire diligently, and if it is true and certain that such an abomination has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out to your gates that man or woman who has done this evil thing, and you shall stone that man or woman to death with stones

Leviticus 20:10 ESV
“If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Exodus 22:19 ESV
“Whoever lies with an animal shall be put to death.

Leviticus 20:27 ESV
“A man or a woman who is a medium or a necromancer shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones; their blood shall be upon them.”

Leviticus 21:9 ESV
And the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by whoring, profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire.

Deuteronomy 17:12 ESV
The man who acts presumptuously by not obeying the priest who stands to minister there before the Lord your God, or the judge, that man shall die. So you shall purge the evil from Israel.


Deuteronomy 13:13-18 ESV
That certain worthless fellows have gone out among you and have drawn away the inhabitants of their city, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, then you shall inquire and make search and ask diligently. And behold, if it be true and certain that such an abomination has been done among you, you shall surely put the inhabitants of that city to the sword, devoting it to destruction, all who are in it and its cattle, with the edge of the sword. You shall gather all its spoil into the midst of its open square and burn the city and all its spoil with fire, as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God. It shall be a heap forever. It shall not be built again.

Deuteronomy 13:7-12 ESV
Some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. And all Israel shall hear and fear and never again do any such wickedness as this among you.

Deuteronomy 17:2-5 ESV
“If there is found among you, within any of your towns that the Lord your God is giving you, a man or woman who does what is evil in the sight of the Lord your God, in transgressing his covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have forbidden, and it is told you and you hear of it, then you shall inquire diligently, and if it is true and certain that such an abomination has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out to your gates that man or woman who has done this evil thing, and you shall stone that man or woman to death with stones.

John 3:18 ESV
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

1 Samuel 15:2-3 ESV
Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

2 Chronicles 15:13 ESV
But that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.

Ezekiel 35:7-9 ESV
I will make Mount Seir a waste and a desolation, and I will cut off from it all who come and go. And I will fill its mountains with the slain. On your hills and in your valleys and in all your ravines those slain with the sword shall fall. I will make you a perpetual desolation, and your cities shall not be inhabited. Then you will know that I am the Lord.

“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

“Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple.” So they began by killing the seventy leaders. “Defile the Temple!” the LORD commanded. “Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!” So they went throughout the city and did as they were told.” (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

“You are my battle-ax and sword,” says the LORD. “With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. “As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem,” says the LORD. “Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy,” says the LORD. “I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out,” says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)

This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: ‘I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.’ (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)

This all is for peace between us all, right? No wonder why the world is as it is. Love begets love, most religions are about hatred and will spawn nothing but.

 

[King Dazzar]

2 Chronicles 15:13 ESV
But that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.

I'm not going to spend my time going through every quotation. But you seemed quite focused on the one I've quoted from you. For me its all about context. My understanding is that this was after many had lost there way from God and wanted to return to God. As part of returning to God's good Grace. They all made a public oath together with a personal covenant with God. To seal with God how serious and dedicated to him they were, they were willing to themselves, be put to death should they break it. For me it was about proving/reassuring God that they wouldn't go astray and forsake him.

Without that context you could easily read those words in a number of ways, whilst missing the real intent. This doesnt mean they were going to go on a rampage throughout the world killing everyone who didn't believe, for example.

I hope you manage to spend an equal time on many of the good readings with a balanced open mind too.

 

[Pancakes and Sausage]

New to this thread and it’s interesting to read people’s perspectives.

When Jesus was asked what the most important command was, He said to love God with all your heart and to love your neighbour as yourself - meaning treat everyone as well as you treat yourself.

We are also told to judge nobody, feed the hungry, help the poor and the widows - help marginalized people.

Is this not what Christianity is? Following Jesus?

 

[Chaplain]

Video: Is religion good or bad for society? Ben Shapiro vs Alex O'Connor (12/1/23)

The Big Conversation is a unique video series from Unbelievable? the flagship apologetics and theology discussion show from Premierunbelievable.com In this bonus episode of The Big Conversation' formidable Daily Wire host and renowned political thinker Ben Shapiro goes head-to-head with Oxford graduate of philosophy and theology, now international public speaker and debater, Alex O’Connor. Hosted by Andy Kind, Shapiro and O'Connor debate Is religion good or bad for society? What is the concept of free will? Does it even exist? What about the idea of the self, and the foundations of morality in society, and do we all have to agree on them?

Ben Shapiro is a distinguished figure in the realm of political discussion, recognised for his bold opinions and remarkable debating skills. Ever-innovative in thought and influential in culture, Shapiro brings a fresh and compelling perspective to this philosophical conversation.

Atheist Alex O’Connor, the YouTuber formerly known as the Cosmic Sceptic, and host of the Within Reason podcast brings thoughtful philosophical rigour and insight to provoke deliberation on varying timeless faith-science-philosophy topics. Religion’s effects in the evolution of consciousness, Nihilism’s counter to the concept of free will and, ultimately, the basis of varying worldviews serve as crucial discussion points in this thought-provoking exchange.

 

[Chaplain]

Video: Christmas Through the Ages - Romans 1:1-4; Galatians 4:4-5 - Skip Heitzig

"Christmas, alongside Easter, is a principal celebration in Christianity, commemorating the birth of Jesus Christ. This event, known as the incarnation, is seen as God manifesting in human form through Jesus (Philippians 2:5-7). Pastor Skip explores the origins and purpose of Christmas, referencing biblical passages like Romans 1:1-4 and Galatians 4:4-5. He points out that Christmas's roots trace back to Genesis 1-3, where the Protoevangelium in Genesis 3:15 introduces the concept of a Messiah who will overcome evil, marking the beginning of the promise fulfilled in Jesus. The lineage from Adam to Jesus, as detailed in Genesis, demonstrates God's ongoing promise. The importance of Jesus' birth is highlighted by its timing - "the fullness of the time" (Galatians 4:4-5), symbolizing a period ripe for the Messiah's arrival. This period was characterized by Israel's spiritual longing under oppression, a unified Hellenistic culture thanks to Alexander the Great, and the expansive, peaceful Roman Empire that facilitated the spread of Jesus' teachings. Pastor Skip emphasizes that Jesus, pre-existing in heaven, came to earth to redeem humanity, contrasting this divine mission with secular representations like Santa Claus. He also encourages exploring the profound impact of Jesus’ birth on the world, including its influence on various aspects of society such as holidays, hospitals, and education. The teaching also includes practical aspects, urging believers to use Christmas as a time to reflect on and discuss the implications of Jesus' coming, particularly focusing on John 3:16. This reflection should encompass God's love, the transformative impact of Jesus' birth, and the spirit of giving epitomized by God sending His Son. Additionally, Pastor Skip suggests using the Christmas season for evangelism and outreach, highlighting its potential as a powerful tool for sharing the Christian faith."

 

[Chaplain]

Video: True Spiritual Awakening - Dr. John Lennox and Dr. James Tour on Scripture Meditation & God's Voice

"In their conversation, Dr. James Tour and Dr. John Lennox discuss various topics, focusing on the integration of Christian faith with academic and scientific pursuits. They explore the challenges and societal pressures faced due to their faith, particularly in academic settings. They emphasize the importance of daily scripture study and prayer in their lives, sharing personal experiences and the impact of these practices. The discussion also covers the transformative power of living authentically according to one's faith, the role of evangelism, and the significance of incorporating Christian beliefs in all life aspects, including family and work. This conversation provides insights into living a faith-filled life in a modern, scientific world." (1/12/24)

 

[Chaplain]

Video: 50 Years Studying the Resurrection: Magnum Opus by Gary Habermas

"The conversation between Dr. Sean McDowell and New Testament scholar Dr. Gary Habermas is a detailed and comprehensive discussion on the historical case for the resurrection of Jesus Christ. In their conversation, Dr. Gary Habermas, after 32,000+ hours studying the resurrection of Jesus, focuses on the minimal facts approach, which he considers the strongest evidence. This approach concentrates on a core set of facts about Jesus' life, crucifixion, and post-death appearances that are widely accepted by scholars, including skeptics. Habermas' latest 1,100-page volume, developed over 18 years, is an exhaustive analysis of every detail related to the resurrection, aiming to address both skeptics and believers. The discussion also touches on how resurrection scholarship has evolved in the past 50 years. Habermas notes a shift towards greater scholarly acceptance of certain facts about Jesus' life and resurrection claims, even among skeptical scholars. This change is partly due to a growing appreciation for historical methods and new archaeological findings, providing a more solid foundation for the historical case of the resurrection." (1/16/24)

Video: Hasn't the Church Done More Harm Than Good? - Clare Williams

"The charge that the church has done more harm than good is a moral objection. Even when Christians do good works, is it enough to redeem the church's reputation and chequered past? Clare Williams explores this difficult question and how Christians can respond sensitively." (1/16/24)

 

[Chaplain]

New Resource:

Video: Carl Trueman: Classical Theology and the Modern Mind

"Theologian Carl Trueman's lecture focuses on the relevance of classical theology in addressing modern challenges within Protestantism, particularly in the Reformed and Evangelical traditions. Trueman emphasizes the continuity of theological concepts from the early church through the Middle Ages to the Reformation, underscoring that modern Protestants cannot disregard foundational doctrines like those of Thomas Aquinas. He critiques the modern Protestant tendency towards ahistoricism and anti-creedalism, advocating for a re-engagement with historical theology to enrich contemporary Christian understanding and practice. Trueman delves into the pathologies of the modern mind, highlighting the antihistorical and anti-creedal tendencies that pervade both secular and Christian cultures. He argues for the importance of understanding the development of doctrine and the role of church history in shaping theological thought. Trueman presents classical theology as an antidote to these modern pathologies, suggesting that a deeper engagement with the theological formulations of the past can provide a more robust framework for addressing contemporary issues. He encourages a return to a contemplative engagement with theology, where the study of God and His nature is seen as an end in itself, rather than merely instrumental to other ends." (Jan 17, 2024)

 

[Liljagare]

I'm not going to spend my time going through every quotation. But you seemed quite focused on the one I've quoted from you. For me its all about context. My understanding is that this was after many had lost there way from God and wanted to return to God. As part of returning to God's good Grace. They all made a public oath together with a personal covenant with God. To seal with God how serious and dedicated to him they were, they were willing to themselves, be put to death should they break it. For me it was about proving/reassuring God that they wouldn't go astray and forsake him.

Without that context you could easily read those words in a number of ways, whilst missing the real intent. This doesnt mean they were going to go on a rampage throughout the world killing everyone who didn't believe, for example.

I hope you manage to spend an equal time on many of the good readings with a balanced open mind too.

Naturally, I love the Gospels of St Thomas. Probably the better part of what was skipped in our modern bibles.

But, christians and the organization sure doesn't like it.

“Blessed are those who have been persecuted in their heart.
They are the ones who have truly come to know the Father.”

 

[King Dazzar]

Naturally, I love the Gospels of St Thomas. Probably the better part of what was skipped in our modern bibles.

But, christians and the organization sure doesn't it.

“Blessed are those who have been persecuted in their heart.
They are the ones who have truly come to know the Father.”

Yeah, I've not got much more to add really unfortunately. I'm loving my relationship with God and Christ and just starting on Romans after enjoying Acts. But my journey is certainly not without its doubts and tests. The small amount of interaction I've had with my local church and those Christians has been very positive. I took my first holy communion on Christmas Eve, which I loved. So I'm still exploring the organised aspects of faith. But I know from exploring my baptism that communities can vary a lot... all I can do is wish you well on your journey.

 

[Liljagare]

Yeah, I've not got much more to add really unfortunately. I'm loving my relationship with God and Christ and just starting on Romans after enjoying Acts. But my journey is certainly not without its doubts and tests. The small amount of interaction I've had with my local church and those Christians has been very positive. I took my first holy communion on Christmas Eve, which I loved. So I'm still exploring the organised aspects of faith. But I know from exploring my baptism that communities can vary a lot... all I can do is wish you well on your journey.

It is usually when you start asking questions that you really see the true colours of groups.

Much luck and love on your journey!

 

[Chaplain]

New Resources:

Video: Thomist Predestination vs Calvinist Predestination Calvinism and Catholicism (w/ Redeemed Zoomer)

00:00 Introduction
03:00 Which ‘One True Church’ is the One True Church?
11:00 Is Eastern Orthodox the safer ‘One True Church’ option?
16:00 Discussion of the infallibility of the ‘One True Church’, Catholic vs. Protestant
18:00 How does the Catholic Church perceive Protestants?
24:00 Sola Fide / Faith Alone Salvation
29:00 The Calvinist ‘Elect’ and Salvation
34:00 Predestination and Salvation
41:00 Thomist Predestination vs Calvinist Predestination
53:00 Calvinist view on ‘The Fall’
57:00 Faith and Works
1:18:30 The Magisterium and it’s Teachings
1:23:00 Catholic Church on marrying a non-Christian
1:30:40 Veneration of the Saints

Video: DEBATE: Is the Doctrine of Purgatory True? (Horn vs. White)

00:00:00 - Introduction
00:03:08 – Horn Opening
00:18:05 – White Opening
00:33:12 – Horn First Rebuttal
00:40:23 – White First Rebuttal
00:47:37 – Horn Second Rebuttal
00:51:46 – White Second Rebuttal
00:56:23 – Cross-Examination
01:37:40 – Audience Q+A
01:59:30 – Horn Closing
02:04:19 – White Closing

Video: Margarita Mooney Clayton: The Wounds of Beauty

What does truth have to do with beauty, and what does beauty have to do with goodness? Princeton Theological Seminary’s Margarita Mooney Clayton and host Eric Metaxas sit down to discuss the meaning of beauty as defined by figures such as St. Augustine, Plato, and C.S. Lewis, and its great significance for a materialistic generation.

Video: Alister McGrath - C. S. Lewis: His Significance for Personal Faith and the Ministry of the Church

C. S. Lewis is widely regarded as one of the most important and accessible Christian writers of recent year. In this lecture, Professor Alister McGrath of Oxford University will speak on how Lewis can help us consolidate and develop our personal faith and resource the preaching and outreach of churches. How can Lewis encourage us and help us to grow in our faith, or even explain our faith to friends and family? How can Lewis help preachers and apologists communicate and commend Christianity? There is growing interest in Lewis as a resource for personal faith development and church outreach. In this lecture, Professor McGrath will explain why and point to ways in which Lewis can enrich the life of faith.

Video: John Lennox: Science DOESN'T Explain What You Think It Does (Brilliant Insights!)

0:00: John Lennox discusses the relationship between science and faith, addressing Dawkins' claim that science disproves God.
8:38: The misconception that God and science are alternatives in terms of explanation, and the difference between the two.
16:11: Lennox addresses the problem of meaning in our world, and the semantics of language which suggests there is a mind behind it.
24:30: Lennox challenges Stephen Hawking's statement that the universe can create itself from nothing, and questions the definition of 'nothing' by scientists.
32:33: Scientists are now questioning Neo-Darwinism and discuss the role of divine input in biological evolution.
41:06: The discussion covers topics such as the importance of evidence, Wittgenstein's philosophy, and the agenda of transhumanism.
48:54: Are miracles a violation of the natural law?
57:17: The changing questions of meaning and identity, and the potential consequences of bioengineering on human identity.
1:05:30: Are there other forms of intelligence in the universe?
1:20:53: Why is there suffering in the world and how do we face it, particularly in the context of the existence of a good and all-powerful God?
1:29:34: Is Christianity a unique religion and are other religions false?

Video: Marriage, Family, and Parenting - Paul Washer

0:00 - Introduction
6:26 - Are you putting ministry above your family?
18:13 - Be subject to one another?
27:20 - An area I have failed in.
28:46 - A husband needs his wife's respect.
1:09:28 - Now, as a Christian, how do I train my daughter?
1:20:52 - How do I discern if my child is truly saved?
1:27:46 - How do I prevent my child from being self-righteous?
1:33:14 - What about sinful aspects of my spouse's culture?
1:37:27 - What about parental authority?
1:44:56 - What about a husband who neglects his wife?
1:50:32 - How do you maintain joy in the home?

Video: Four Pillars of Walking with God - Paul Washer

Joy comes before obedience, rather than after. If you don't understand that, you will really be messed up all of your days. Joy is not the result of obedience, joy is the result of what God has done. So now your joy is fixed on a fixed and stable source. When your joy is based on your performance it is going to be up and down like the wind.

Video: Lauren Windle: Finding God as a recovering drug addict

Lauren Windle is a journalist, author, speaker and presenter who specialises in faith, recovery and love. She is the author of 'Notes on Love: being single and dating in a marriage-obsessed church' and the upcoming 'Notes on Feminism: Being a woman in a male-led church'. Justin and Belle chat with Lauren about her own story of addiction, recovery and faith, the intersection between Christianity and feminism from her perspective within the church, and the pervasive questions being asked by today’s culture.

Video: Islam and Christianity - Andy Bannister interviewed by Stefan Gustavsson

Do Muslims and Christians worship the same God? Has the Bible really been corrupted? How do we engage the gospel with Muslims? These are difficult questions, and so many of us struggle to effectively witness to the Muslim community. This talk seeks answers to these and more as we desire to be faithful followers of Christ in our words and to love our Muslim neighbors well.

 

[Chaplain]

New Resources:

Video: Rebecca McLaughlin - Is Easter Unbelievable?

"Rebecca McLaughlin (PhD, Cambridge University) recounts a conversation with her barista friend who identifies as an atheist. Her friend questions the idea of a resurrection and McLaughlin argues that Christianity is not based on blind faith but rather on historical evidence. McLaughlin outlines three main questions to consider regarding the Easter story: Is Jesus' life historical? Is Jesus' death ethical? Is Jesus' resurrection credible? McLaughlin argues that Jesus' life is well documented historically, even by non-Christian sources. She refers to scholar Bart Ehrman who acknowledges Jesus as a historical figure. McLaughlin also argues that the gospel accounts, while written decades after Jesus’ death, were based on eyewitness testimony. Next, McLaughlin addresses the question of whether Jesus’ death is ethical. She argues that Jesus’ death was not simply punishment for sin, but an act of unity between God and humanity. Finally, McLaughlin tackles the question of the resurrection’s credibility. She argues that the empty tomb and the early eyewitness testimonies are strong evidence for the resurrection."

Video: Malcolm Guite: Preparing Your Heart for Lent and Easter

With twinkling eyes, a wild beard, wit, and a profound understanding of the Gospel, acclaimed poet, songwriter and Cambridge Chaplain Malcolm Guite will help prepare our hearts and minds for the sacred season of Lent and Easter. Dr. Guite will point to ways to deepen our prayer life, come alongside others, face the pain of Christ’s suffering and know the joy of the resurrection! His approach to drawing near to Jesus through the Scriptures, poetry and music will move your heart and give your mind much to contemplate.

Video: Dr. Amy Orr-Ewing: Is Jesus the Only Way?

"Dr. Amy Orr-Ewing addresses one of the most important questions anyone can ask, “Is Jesus the Only Way?” In other words, is the Gospel of Jesus Christ the only way to enter into a relationship with the Creator of the world, find forgiveness of sins and receive the gift of eternal life? In today’s pluralistic world in which the idea that truth is relative and that there can be many ways to God, the proclamation of Jesus in John 14:6 can be seen as radical. There Jesus states, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” Join us for this presentation as Amy unpacks this important topic."

Video: Justin Brierley and Tom Holland: Are we witnessing a rebirth of belief in God?

"'Christianity is outdated. A cultural relic from a less enlightened time. Superstition for the masses – not the kind of thing intelligent people believe in nowadays.' That's the general message New Atheism put out into the world in the noughties. And for a while it felt like Dawkins and Hitchens and co might have had the last word. In Alastair Campbell's memorable phrase, it seemed as though the UK at large 'didn't do God' any more. And yet. Over the last few years, something's started to shift. Podcaster and author Justin Brierley has been hosting high-profile debates between Christians, atheists, and agnostics for nearly two decades, and in that time he's seen the conversation change. A new set of so-called secular thinkers are turning away from the materialist non-story of reality and reconsidering how the Christian story speaks to today’s meaning crisis. In this live episode, hosts Paul Woolley and Grace Fielding chat to Justin and Tom Holland, author of the bestselling book 'Dominion' and host of the hugely popular podcast 'The Rest is History'. Together, they explore why new atheism is growing old and the Christian view of reality is making a comeback."

Video: Jonathan Pageau: What atheists get wrong about the Bible, religion and Jordan Peterson

"Jonathan Pageau is a French Canadian icon carver, public speaker and YouTuber exploring the symbolic patterns that underlie our experience of the world. He's also the editor of the Orthodox Arts Journal and host of the Symbolic World blog and podcast. Jonathan is also known for his friendship with Jordan Peterson, another thinker invested in symbolism, psychology and pointing people back to Christianity as the modern West navigates a ‘meaning crisis’. Jonathan talk to Justin and Belle about meaning, symbolism, atheism and the meaning crisis as we ask whether we can re-enchant… just about everything!" (3/13/24)

Video: William Lane Craig Defends the Canaanite Slaughter

"William Lane Craig is a Christian philosopher and public speaker, who today makes his third appearance on Within Reason. We discuss why Richard Dawkins refuses to debate him, and whether Old Testament slaughter can be justified." (3/17/24)
00:00 What Dr Craig Thinks of Richard Dawkins
04:50 What Are Richard Dawkins’ Biggest Pitfalls?
11:19 Will Science Eventually Answer the Mysteries of God?
18:23 Why William Defends the Slaughter of the Canaanites
22:51 The Innocent People & Children of Canaan
32:02 Divine Command Over Objective Morality
44:53 Who Does God Wrong in the Canaanite Slaughter?
49:08 How Can One Know it is Truly a Command of God?
54:39 Is This Slaughter a Genocide or Not?
59:33 If Dr Craig Was a Canaanite
1:04:58 Conclusion

Video: The Ontology of Artificial Intelligence - with John Vervaeke and DC Schindler

This is a discussion that Ken Lowry kindly organized on his YouTube channel and podcast, Climbing Mt. Sophia. The panel includes me, John Vervaeke (@johnvervaeke) and DC Schindler. We talk about the ontology of artificial intelligence from different perspectives: the scientific, philosophical, and spiritual or theological perspectives.

Video: C.S. Lewis & Medieval Wisdom for Modern Christians with Chris R. Armstrong

The Middle Ages are often dismissed as a period of corruption and decay in the church. As a result, the riches and wisdom of the medieval period have remained largely inaccessible to modern Christians. Historian Chris Armstrong helps us see beyond modern caricatures of the medieval church to the animating Christian spirit of that age. During this webinar, we'll explore how the gospel speaks to ordinary, embodied human life in this world. His book, Medieval Wisdom for Modern Christians, explores key ideas, figures, and movements from the Middle Ages in conversation with C. S. Lewis and other thinkers, helping contemporary Christians discover authentic faith and renewal in a forgotten age.

Video: Is the Bible True? | Full Talk

The recording of my recent talk at the 2024 Apologetics Canada Conference, which took place at Northview Community Church in Abbotsford, British Columbia.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Happy Easter everyone! I’ll be missing worship tomorrow as we are hosting Easter for the first time ever but I hope you all have a fantastic day!

 

[Chaplain]

Happy Resurrection Sunday!

"... Jesus Christ has come into the world in order that we might have "life in all its fullness" (John 10:10; 20:31). It is Jesus Christ who brings life to the world. It is Jesus Christ who is the bread of life (John 6:35); it is he who is the resurrection and the life (John 11:25). Through the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the authentic mode of existence which God intends for us becomes a present real possibility. That which we could never attain for ourselves is made available for me by God as a gift. The gospel promises eternal life to those who believe (John 6:40, 51, 53-58), and that eternal life manifests itself in the present as authentic, believing, and redeemed existence, a foretaste of what is yet to come." (Scientist/Theologian Alister McGrath)

 

[Pyramid Song]

He is risen, folks

 

[Chaplain]

Video: Christian revival: fantasy or reality? - UnHerd LIVE

"With recent examples of high-profile atheists publicly converting to religious faith, or aligning with ‘cultural Christianity’, it seems the tide might be turning against secularism in Britain and America. But do stars of the rationalist movement finding faith mark a greater social shift? Joining UnHerd to discuss this very question are presenter of ‘The Surprising Rebirth Of Belief In God’ podcast Justin Brierley, host of ‘The Sacred’ Elizabeth Oldfield and Alex O’Connor, otherwise known as the ‘Cosmic Skeptic’." (5/14/24)

 

[Chaplain]

Video: The New Religion - Tom Holland | Maiden Mother Matriarch 81

My guest today is Tom Holland, co-host of the Rest is History podcast, and author of many books, including 'Dominion: The Making of the Western Mind.'

We spoke about the new book that Tom is working on, focused on the ideological revolution of the 1960s, which he compares to a second Reformation. He argues that the current culture wars are in fact theological wars between two different Christian factions, and that the newer faction is gaining in dominance.

In the extended part of the episode, we spoke about what true dechristianisation looks like, and why it is such a frightening prospect to anyone raised within the Christian moral framework.

02:36 A second reformation
11:00 Culture wars as a civil war in Christianity
15:00 Moving with the vibes
19:32 Euthanasia
21:31 Can the second reformation be classed as heresy?
24:41 A return to paganism?
28:20 Christian frameworks rebranded as universal

"That life is precious, particularly the lives of the most vulnerable, has been crucial to the practice of Christianity since the very beginning. One of the markers of a Christian city, archaeologically as opposed to a pre-Christian city, is the absence of small baby bones in the sewage. In pre-Christian cities, babies were literally thrown out with the trash. With the coming of Christianity, that practice ended. In the 4th century, in the wake of Constantine's conversion, people would search rubbish dumps outside cities for abandoned babies, who would either be left to die or be captured by slavers, raised to be slaves or prostitutes. This practice reflects a commitment to preserving the lives of the most vulnerable. The arguments against abortion draw on that tradition. However, the idea that underpins the right to choose is rooted in the belief that all human beings should have bodily autonomy, which is also a radical teaching of Christianity. The whole abortion debate is, in a sense, an argument over which aspect of these biblical teachings to emphasize. The fact that the anchor within scripture has been loosed makes the arguments even more intense because you can't draw on scripture to press your case. Instead, you have to rely on impressions, gut instincts, and appeals to emotions, suggesting that if you don't feel a certain way, you're evil. Both sides make that case. They no longer draw on theological roots, but the wellsprings are theological." (Historian Tom Holland)

 

[Chaplain]

New Resources:

Video: "Theological BULLSH*T!" Richard Dawkins Challenges Ayaan Hirsi Ali's New-Found Christianity

Dawkins reiterates the fascination he's always had for what I might call "austere theism," the hypothesis of God as Creator, though not as Comforter. He doesn't hear Hirsi Ali discussing that hypothesis as a plank in her argument. She indicates that she finds it interesting too, but she also seems to think it isn't a rationally resolvable question. As shorthand, she says it can't be "proved." Here, I'll bluntly say she isn't going to be helped by certain Christian voices, like e.g. Alister McGrath. The word "proof" clouds the issue. It isn't a question of "proof." It's a question of what seems to offer our best fit.

Video: Sex, Marriage, & Human Nature with Carl Trueman

“It’s the common sense position. Marriage is the context in which children can be protected… We have laws about marriage to protect children. That is why the state has an interest in marriage because the state has an obligation to protect children.” Historian and theologian, Carl Trueman discusses the crumbling state of marriage, relationships, and sex and what we can do to fix it on this episode of Exclusives with Lila Rose.

Video: Teach The Truth By Living It

Dr. Peter Kreeft speaks about the mission of Christians, which is evangelization. This is not just for priests or religious, but for all the baptized. As followers of Jesus, we are called to be his witnesses, and by this witness many can come to believe.

Video: Where is God in my friend's suicide? Live Q+A Amy Orr-Ewing Jesse Fellingham Ben Thomas Ruth Jackson

Amy Orr-Ewing, a public theologian, said that the Christian belief is that human life is precious because humans are created in the image of God. She argued that suffering hurts so much because we are made in God’s image and that God doesn’t abandon us in despair. Dr. Ben Thomas, a medical doctor, added the importance of submitting to God’s will and the dangers of finding truth in oneself. He argued that the postmodern view that there is no absolute truth is linked to the rise in anxiety. The discussion also explored the concept of free will, referencing a story shared by Jesse Fellingham, an Instagrammer, about how he rejected God but later had a healing experience. Fellingham said that God reveals himself in many ways and that we can choose to accept him or not.

Video: Lee Strobel and the Question of Whether God is Real

"In the discussion, Lee Strobel, a former atheist and investigative journalist, delves into his journey from skepticism to faith. He discusses his initial motivations for investigating the evidence for Christianity, driven by his wife's newfound faith and his own desire to disprove it. Strobel emphasizes the importance of approaching the question of God's existence with intellectual honesty and a willingness to follow the evidence wherever it leads. Throughout the conversation, Strobel highlights key aspects of his investigation, including the historical reliability of the Gospels, the evidence for Jesus' resurrection, and the transformative power of faith in the lives of believers. He emphasizes that his conversion was not based on blind faith, but rather on a careful examination of the evidence and a rational conclusion that Christianity offered the most compelling explanation for the facts. Strobel also addresses common objections to faith, such as the problem of evil and suffering. He acknowledges the difficulty of these questions but suggests that faith provides a framework for understanding suffering and finding meaning in the midst of it."

Video: Chinese Mafia Leader Gives His Life to Jesus (Testimony)

"Toby, a former Chinese Mafia Leader, describes his difficult childhood and how he found his faith. Toby grew up in a difficult household. His father was a first-generation Singaporean Christian who was violent and did not have a close relationship with Toby. Toby also struggled in school because of a learning disability. At the age of 11, Toby’s family moved to New Zealand where he experienced racial slurs and bullying from other students. This experience led Toby to get into fights and eventually join a gang. Toby’s older brother was already involved in the gang, and after a fight, Toby was approached by the gang leader who offered him protection. Toby’s mom was worried about him joining the gang and pleaded with God to help him. Toby rose quickly in the ranks of the gang and became the right-hand man to his boss. Even though Toby was successful in the gang, his home life remained difficult. He got into another violent fight with his father and felt hopeless. However, he remembered what his mom had told him as a child, to use the name of Jesus if he was ever in trouble. Toby said Jesus’ name and this marked a turning point in his life."

Video: Slavery in the Bible: Atheist-Christian Dialogue (Trent Horn, Gavin Ortlund, Josh Bowen, Kipp Davis)

In this dialogue Trent Horn, Gavin Ortlund, Josh Bowen, Kipp Davis discuss slavery in the Bible, following up on early videos.

Video: Truth in True Crime (ft. J. Warner Wallace)

What can we learn from murder investigations about human nature, living the good life, and how to find genuine happiness? The answer might surprise you. J. Warner Wallace has been a crime detective for decades, and in this interview, he shares personal stories and insights from his life and career. Each of these insights provides corroborative evidence that Christianity is true.

 

[Chaplain]

Video: Why Does God Judge Humans? | Thomas R. Schreiner

"Andy Schmidt and Thomas R. Schreiner delve into the themes of sin, judgment, and the nature of God's goodness, as discussed in Schreiner's book "The Justice and Goodness of God." Schreiner, a seasoned theology professor and pastor, begins by explaining the impetus for his book, which stemmed from his recent work on a commentary on Revelation and the pervasive questions among young Christians about the compatibility of a good God with the existence of hell and judgment. He underscores that understanding God's holiness is crucial to grasping the necessity of judgment, arguing that God's perfect goodness inherently rejects sin. The discussion also explores how historical figures like Thomas Jefferson approached the teachings of Jesus, highlighting the selective acceptance of Jesus' moral teachings while rejecting his divine claims. Schreiner emphasizes that this rationalistic approach is inconsistent and underscores the importance of accepting the entirety of Jesus' teachings. The conversation touches on theological debates such as the nature of the soul's death in Genesis, the distinction between Old and New Testament understandings of the afterlife, and the relationship between the Tree of Life and eternal life. Ultimately, Schreiner asserts that the doctrine of judgment is good news, as it underscores God's goodness and justice, offering salvation through Jesus Christ." (6/20/24)

 

[Chaplain]

Video: PILOT EPISODE: The Promised Land Series

"Witness the epic tale of perseverance and leadership in our new comedy show, where the greatest challenge isn't the desert's heat, but the hearts of the people." (7/1/24)

 

[Liljagare]

There is strenght in faith, there is more strenght in kindness.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Our sermon this morning was on the book of Esther. I never realized it till the pastor pointed out that “God” doesn’t appear in the book once.

 

[Chaplain]

New Resources:

Video: How Does God’s Character Comfort My Anxious Heart? Alistair Begg and Jonny Ardavanis

In this episode, Jonny Ardavanis sits down with Alistair Begg and together they discuss how the character of God provides stability, serenity, and peace to the child of God.

Video: Long Live The King: A Life Devoted To Christ - Paul Washer

This sermon explores the deep significance of Jesus’ life as our ultimate example, focusing on His humility and total dependence on the Father. Even though Jesus was fully God, He chose to live as the “Second Adam,” perfectly obedient and reliant on God to undo the damage caused by the first Adam’s fall. The message emphasizes the vital importance of communion with God, showing that true strength and wisdom come from a life of prayer and intimacy with Him. It’s a call to believers to recognize their own weaknesses, lean on God for strength, and live each day seeking His glory and advancing His kingdom. Through this, we are reminded that our spiritual life thrives only when rooted in a deep, ongoing relationship with our Heavenly Father.

Video: Exploring the theology of work and business with Michael Ramsden

Michael Ramsden discusses the importance of finding purpose in one's work from a Christian perspective. He emphasizes that a core principle is understanding that your worth is not defined by what you do but by whom you were created by. Ramsden argues that people often confuse their identity with their job title or function, and this can lead to feelings of emptiness or purposelessness, especially when faced with unemployment or retirement. He contrasts this with the idea of a calling, where your work should serve a higher purpose. This purpose is not about achieving fame or fortune, but about fulfilling a role that aligns with your values and God’s plan for your life. Ramsden acknowledges that finding your calling can be difficult. He offers some suggestions, including reflecting on whether you’ve ever gone to work simply because you felt called to do so, and being open to the possibility that God may reveal your purpose to you over time.

Video: Bishop Barron Presents | Jonathan Pageau - Recognizing Patterns

Jonathan Pageau discusses his background growing up in Quebec, Canada, where Catholicism was the dominant religion but became more secularized over time. He talks about finding the beauty and richness of the Christian tradition through the Church Fathers and the way they interpreted the Bible. Barron also shares his experience of coming of age in a time when the Catholic Church had become more rationalistic and focused on historical criticism of the Bible. He contrasts this approach with the patristic way of reading the Bible, which looks for the deeper meanings and connections within the text. Pageau highlights the importance of the Church Fathers in helping him understand the Bible as a unified story with a coherent message. He emphasizes the role of typology, a symbolic way of reading the Old Testament that foreshadows the New Testament. Barron mentions how his generation was discouraged from this practice. Barron and Pageau discuss the importance of the Church as a physical and symbolic gathering place for Christians. They talk about how the Church building itself can be a representation of the heavenly Jerusalem. Pageau argues that the Church Fathers saw the world as a microcosm, with the Church at the center, and and the Eucharist as the center of the Church. The conversation then turns to Maximus the Confessor, a Byzantine theologian who Pageau sees as offering a way of understanding Christianity that is both coherent and relevant to the modern world. Maximus emphasizes the importance of unity and purpose, and how everything in creation is ultimately oriented towards God. Barron brings up the topic of the papacy and how it can be understood as a visible sign of unity for the Christian Church. Pageau acknowledges the importance of Peter in the New Testament but cautions that any intermediary figure can become prideful. He suggests that the Eastern Orthodox Church sees the papacy as an example of this pride.

Video: Mike Rowe Uncovers Hope in Possum Trot with Bishop W.C. Martin | The Way I Heard It

"Bishop Martin and his wife Donna were the inspiration for the film Sound of Hope: The Story of Possum Trot, which details their miraculous journey navigating the foster care system in a small Texas town and how they inspired the parishioners of Bennet Chapel Church to adopt 77 children."

Video: Who Are We? - The Image of God

Historian Tom Wright "delves into the theme of the "image of God," which is introduced in Genesis when God creates humans in His image. Wright points out that in the ancient world, an image was often placed in a temple to represent a deity. However, in the biblical narrative, the whole of creation is seen as God's temple, with humans as the living image of God, tasked with reflecting God’s presence in to the world. This role is akin to being an "angled mirror" that reflects God to the world and the praises of the world back to God. Wright contrasts this biblical concept with the pagan practice of creating carved images to represent gods, which the Bible condemns. He explains that while pagans created lifeless images, the Bible asserts that only living beings—humans—can truly reflect the living God. He also notes that in the ancient world, only kings were sometimes considered the image of a god, but Genesis democratizes this concept, stating that all humans are God's image-bearers, regardless of status."

Video: The doctor taken by Al Qaeda and kept prisoner for 7 years in Africa | Foreign Correspondent

"Veteran reporter Jonathan Holmes returns to the program with an exclusive interview with the Australian doctor held captive by Al Qaeda in the harsh Saharan desert for more than seven years. Dr Ken Elliott and his wife Jocelyn were kidnapped from the West African country of Burkina Faso in January 2016 where they were working. While Jocelyn was released three weeks later, Ken endured brutal conditions. He was quietly released last year at the age of 88. Now the Elliotts have decided to tell their extraordinary story to Foreign Correspondent. Jonathan Holmes has been following their case since the Elliotts were first taken. In 2016 he travelled with a military escort to the remote town of Djibo in Burkina Faso where the Elliotts had lived for more than 40 years and where they ran a hospital offering lifesaving surgery. Days out from broadcast, concerns over Dr Elliott’s safety prevented his report from being shown. Now their story can finally be told. It's one of unimaginable pain and suffering as well as remarkable resilience. It’s also a story of hope, faith and survival against all odds."

Edited

 

[Chaplain]

Video: Men of the Word Conference - September 21, 2024

In 1 Corinthians 16:13, Paul charges his readers to act like men. The Men of the Word Conference has been created to equip Christian men to answer that call. Hosted by The Master’s Seminary, this conference is designed for men of any age who desire to grow in their knowledge of Christ and the application of Biblical truth. The Men of the Word conference will be held September 20-21, 2024 at Immanuel Bible Church in Springfield, Virginia. With H.B. Charles, Abner Chou, Jesse Johnson, Austin Duncan, George Lawson, and Mark Zhakevich.

9:00 am Session 2
Abner Chou, Worship Center
10:30 am Break
11:00 am Session 3
Q&A Panel, Worship Center
12:30 pm Lunch
2:00 pm Seminars
Jesse Johnson
George Lawson
Austin Duncan
Mark Zhakevich
3:00 pm Break
3:30 pm Session 4
H.B. Charles, Worship Center

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

KJV only!

 

[Nydius]

KJV only!

… is borderline idolatry. KJVO folks worship their translation more than the word of God itself and refuse to admit the myriad flaws of Erasmus’ translation.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

Why would you want atheists in this thread, are you going to show proof that Angels exist? I’d suggest just keeping things here with your fellow Christians so you can dive deep into your subject matter without getting into the same tired arguments theist and atheist present to each other.

It’s amazing how whether you have faith in in Jesus, all his teachings, miracles performed and documented, his life, death, resurrection of end or insult people.

I was born Catholic but I keep it to simply Jesus. He came for us ALL, HUMANITY, brothers and sisters and children of God. We base literal time based on his life. If you don’t believe that’s your right and personal beliefs. But to try and negate the son of God who came for us all just for negativity and hatred is all that is. I don’t mock any others beliefs. I guess I’m just dumbfounded just mentioning his name offends or outrages anyone.

 

[Hotel Security]

But to try and negate the son of God who came for us all just for negativity and hatred is all that is. I don’t mock any others beliefs. I guess I’m just dumbfounded just mentioning his name offends or outrages anyone.

It's not Jesus they're hating on. They're hating on organized religions that have had a past of doing bad and bigoted things to certain people over history. But folks can't separate the teachings from the actual church entity so mentions of Jesus and the Church are one and the same to them. It comes off as a bit naive but that's par for the course online. Even devout people often have no idea what the teachings actually say.

That said I do NOT think Catholicism should be dumbed down to be JUST about Jesus...that's doing it a disservice too and I would assume anyone who says this hasn't actually read the Bible. Jesus's own words are against this type of thinking.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

It's not Jesus they're hating on. They're hating on organized religions that have had a past of doing bad and bigoted things to certain people over history. But folks can't separate the teachings from the actual church entity so mentions of Jesus and the Church are one and the same to them. It comes off as a bit naive but that's par for the course online. Even devout people often have no idea what the teachings actually say.

That said I do NOT think Catholicism should be dumbed down to be JUST about Jesus...that's doing it a disservice too and I would assume anyone who says this hasn't actually read the Bible. Jesus's own words are against this type of thinking.

I agree with that, any “church” or building of worship are run by MAN. That isn’t solely a Christian Church problem.

Thats why I personally do what you just said, I believe in Jesus, I believe he was Gods only begotten son, came here so save us all , our eternal souls. I try to just keep things simple and remember his life, message, death, and resurrection.

 

[crobb2305]

in my experience those that proclaim to be christians are the least loving of all the people

jesus would be ashamed of modern day christianity

 

[Moochi]

If God is omniscient, all-powerful, and perfectly good, then why did he put his stamp of approval on every evil thing in the world? If you say it was to create free will, you have to modify the all-powerful part, because he wasn't powerful enough to create a
world in which there were still choices but only good ones. If you try to put the source of evil on a third party like Satan (which he created, in any case), then he can't be omniscient, because he would know that by creating Satan, he was allowing evil and suffering in the world. If he were perfectly good, he could not be omniscient or all-powerful. Following this logic, the only Creator that can exist may have only two out of three of these claimed aspects.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

If God is omniscient, all-powerful, and perfectly good, then why did he put his stamp of approval on every evil thing in the world? If you say it was to create free will, you have to modify the all-powerful part, because he wasn't powerful enough to create a
world in which there were still choices but only good ones. If you try to put the source of evil on a third party like Satan (which he created, in any case), then he can't be omniscient, because he would know that by creating Satan, he was allowing evil and suffering in the world. If he were perfectly good, he could not be omniscient or all-powerful. Following this logic, the only Creator that can exist may have only two out of three of these claimed aspects.

an accusation as old as time : ) formulated in countless variations by opponents of theology, even hundreds of years before Christ (eg. Epicurus)

It's not a debate that can fit on this platform, but as a general hint of where to go with it:

First, consider what this "evil" in the world even is, that you speak of. Is there evil in the natural world at all? When animals kill and eat each other, they do so from out of the same logic & impulses that create their natural variety and beauty, which is to say: the natural world has no evils, there is no "murder" when animals are considered, there is just the working out of ongoing competition of nature as it continues along and expands.

Evil is only a meaningful or coherent word at all when it comes to humans and their actions. We can murder, not just kill; we can betray; we can lie; etc. So then even recognizing that there is something "evil" in our world really amounts to saying: something in humans--which is beyond the natural order--is out of alignment with what they could or should be.

And when you start thinking in that way, you're already doing theology. You're recognizing that there is a sort of distinct gift to humankind's existence which can either be fulfilled into good or can be perverted into evil. If you say, "no I just mean rational good" like some atheists will say, you quickly run into the problem that there is no basis at all for actions like killing to be "evil" unless mankind is indeed separated from nature by some kind of gift of providence, some higher calling. Otherwise, when considering us strictly naturally, frankly we would be more in line with nature if the strong humans simply devour weak ones, because that is the way nature teaches at every level. (Which is why Nietzsche was the only honest atheist; he recognized that the only coherent atheism is one which teaches a very anti-progressive message, that the strong must exert themselves over the weak).

The Bible begins with a vision of our distinct relationship to nature and god; the natural order was "good" in every way until mankind's reach for self-awareness, eating the "fruit of knowledge of good and evil" which suddenly makes us something set apart. And the Bible makes it clear that we are here to reflect God, to be like God within the natural world (because God is not a "thing" at all, not a part of the world), but we stray from that. We have not reconciled ourselves to reach the potential that God has placed in us. We commit evil, deeply perverse evil, while knowing what we do.

The Christian vision is that God is drawing us towards himself as totally separate reflections of him. If we were simply always good from the start, we would not be reflecting God, we would be mechanical automations. God then revealed himself in history through Jesus to show us how he reconciles: that he suffers with us, takes on the burden of the evil we make in this world (by submitting to be brutally murdered by humans who currently despise God when they see him), and by taking on that suffering, shows how we can all similarly reconcile by taking on suffering in this world, by going beyond our natural desire for mere self-aggrandizement and self-preservation, and giving up our lives to those around us like a similar sacrifice. Then we draw closer to realizing our potential as reflections of God, rather than evil.

 

[Moochi]

I agree, evil is too subjective human concept to debate. Suffering is a more objective concept. Nature is full of purposeless suffering. I've seen people and animals suffer in ways that any human would say it was a mercy to kill them. A truly loving omniscient God would have no reason not to build in limitations to suffering and pain. Some degree of pain and suffering are necessary to build character. However, why would a loving god design small pox, the bot fly, and Leishmaneisis, not to mention a million other natural horrors?
Suffering entering the world because of original sin via a talking snake is a fairy book answer manufactured in an attenpt to reconsille the incompatibility brutal natural world with his goodness.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

Suffering entering the world because of original sin via a talking snake is a fairy book answer manufactured in an attenpt to reconsille the incompatibility brutal natural world with his goodness.

Jumping to conclusions here regarding a talking snake; Genesis is openly poetic in form (even the way the first 2 chapters repeat creation with different orderings, because they are different expressions of creation from two sides), and while scripture tells the truth of man's relation to God and how we are in conflict with Him, it does not tell it flatly in the sense that there must be an actual tree, snake, etc. But that's another topic.

To the main point: the natural world -- considered on its own -- is again neither good nor evil. Every organism is part of the same natural order, even viruses, all vying for dominance and giving rise to enormous diversity and wonders. It's brutal only from the perspective of humans, because we have a different relationship to time, language, self, and morality. When one animal dies in a pack, it's a fleeting moment of violence without past or future; but when a human suffers, they know their past and future, they see their own suffering they live it in a different way and address their pain to others in a different way.


When you say scripture is "attenpt to reconsille [sic] the incompatibility brutal natural world with his goodness," it is quite different indeed -- what we see in mankind across the whole globe, organically since the beginning of humanity, is a powerful desire to reconcile man and God, a sense that we must atone or bridge the gap, usually by sacrificing, as an offering to take away the immense guilt that humans somehow naturally feel... and guilt is not something from the natural order. That desire to fix it, even to sacrifice, is a human universal found in every tribe; Christianity is a distinct answer to it, a revelation of how God becomes the sacrifice rather than demanding that eternal back and forth retribution that trapped mankind across the globe.

 

[Moochi]

Jumping to conclusions here regarding a talking snake; Genesis is openly poetic in form (even the way the first 2 chapters repeat creation with different orderings, because they are different expressions of creation from two sides), and while scripture tells the truth of man's relation to God and how we are in conflict with Him, it does not tell it flatly in the sense that there must be an actual tree, snake, etc. But that's another topic.

To the main point: the natural world -- considered on its own -- is again neither good nor evil. Every organism is part of the same natural order, even viruses, all vying for dominance and giving rise to enormous diversity and wonders. It's brutal only from the perspective of humans, because we have a different relationship to time, language, self, and morality. When one animal dies in a pack, it's a fleeting moment of violence without past or future; but when a human suffers, they know their past and future, they see their own suffering they live it in a different way and address their pain to others in a different way.


When you say scripture is "attenpt to reconsille [sic] the incompatibility brutal natural world with his goodness," it is quite different indeed -- what we see in mankind across the whole globe, organically since the beginning of humanity, is a powerful desire to reconcile man and God, a sense that we must atone or bridge the gap, usually by sacrificing, as an offering to take away the immense guilt that humans somehow naturally feel... and guilt is not something from the natural order. That desire to fix it, even to sacrifice, is a human universal found in every tribe; Christianity is a distinct answer to it, a revelation of how God becomes the sacrifice rather than demanding that eternal back and forth retribution that trapped mankind across the

I've been to hundreds of protestant churches in my life, and discussing the idea that Genesis was non-literal would be like coming out as gay.

Suffering is rarely ever noble, brief, and purposeful. Animals have to die for the ecosystem to continue to exist, but their ability to feel tremendous pain all the way to the end is unnecessary. You may argue that animals don't have the same capacities as us and can't fully comprehend their suffering as a human can, but that only makes them more childlike and innocent. I'm sure you don't want to use the "animals don't have souls" argument, given how unpopular it has become. But then you would be forced to type to define what a soul is, as if it is an objectively real thing that exists.

it's a fleeting moment of violence without past or future;

This is perhaps the silliest statement you've made. Existence is the same for animals as it is for humans. Cognition is a gradient. Smart animals do "see their past and futures". Dogs get ptsd. Elephants mourn their dead. Cats dream. Animals learn from pain and suffering just as humans do. At the bottom of the cognition gradient with insects and such, sure, they're more or less driven entirely by instinct and cannot "learn" except through selection.

God could have created reality in such a way that a creature destined to die would never need to suffer. He DID create such a reality in the metaphorical Genesis story. Eden before the Fall is perfect. The entire Bible is built around a redemption arc for mankind to return to Eden and to God's presence.

Original sin required God to send mankind away, because he cannot tolerate sin in his presence. Whatever that means. What is original sin in your metaphorical interpretation? Why was animal sacrifice required to cover it? How does Jesus work as a suitable replacement for animal sacrifice? You cannot say something is totally metaphorical and dodge thr argument because the faith is built around sin, separation and death, sacrificial redemption, a return to God, and eternal life. If you make Genesis entirely metaphorical you're screwed, honestly. You will have to start making eternal life and resurrection metaphorical, and then you've destroyed the faith.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

You cannot say something is totally metaphorical and dodge thr argument because the faith is built around sin, separation and death, sacrificial redemption, a return to God, and eternal life. If you make Genesis entirely metaphorical you're screwed, honestly. You will have to start making eternal life and resurrection metaphorical, and then you've destroyed the faith.

tons of things going off topic in every direction in your post and I only have a moment, but I want to quickly respond to the part quoted above -- this represents a simpleton's modernist reduction between "literal" and "metaphorical" which was totally alien to the authors and original readers of scripture.

That distinction would draw an invented line between "literal: flatly described events like a news report" and "metaphorical: just lessons and meanings that can be drawn from the text" -- and no one reading/writing scripture in the times it was written would ever recognize either half of this division. They didn't write events flatly; the point was to illuminate historical events through a spiritual lens. The books of the Bible use several wildly different genres to achieve this, but none of the authors would recognize a flat secular-style history as having even the tiniest relationship to their own work -- just as they would be insulted by the concept of a metaphor that simply conveys a universal message rather than a very real historical revelation that happened through history.

If you're not accustomed to hermeneutics of scripture, this can be jarring, but indeed it's absolutely clear that the genres of scripture are totally alien to both "literal" in today's sense and purely "allegorical" readings.

Briefly, what do I mean by a "spiritual illumination of human history" as the primary way to read the text? First, recognize that one of the most enduring genres across the Old Testament is "prophecy," and not prophecy in the sense of "prediction," which again is an alien modernist take on it. The prophecy texts have a very unusual relationship to time: they describe future apocalyptic-like events that will befall the people of Israel etc based on the horizon of the present, as a warning to the present, and as a way of showing the spiritual meaning of the moment and its dangers. Eg. the prophets read God's judgment on the present through the lens of apocalyptic consequences which are both immanent and infinitely distant.

OT's histories are actually very closely related to that, but backwards: instead of showing God's judgment on the present via the future, they are like reverse prophecies which illuminate God's judgment or providence through the events of the past. This means that they spiritually retell their history, but not as mere "allegory" detached from events: God's interventions in history through judgment and providence are real.

An example from a pastor I know: he fasted for weeks during a time of difficult decision making regarding his own church that was in a time of transition of leadership. During the fast, he often felt emptiness and abandonment, not a miraculous presence; but at the end, he had reached a new perspective on the future that clarified the way forward. In fact, looking back on it, he would tell you was able to identify the moment when his despair was actually the crucial turning point in his thinking -- and in reverse, he clearly saw where God intervened there and reoriented him. Now, if he were to write that series of events as the scripture authors did, he would have described God calling out to him on that most desperate day, and telling him the path forward--even though that's a retrospectively revealed truth, not how it was experienced in the moment. But it's not a metaphor or allegorical matter -- in fact the claim would be that God did intervene, and yet his intervention was not something you'd "see" if you were there, or even that he saw until he looked backwards.

Sure, you won't have any belief in that, but notice how it works: God's actions in history are often only recognizable in reverse, when we see where his hand moved things even though we couldn't see it at the time. That's the best way to explain most of the books of the Old Testament: there are like reverse prophecy that reinterprets history to show how God was guiding towards certain realizations or revelations or judgments. They mix styles and elements, and they condense and rearrange and illustrate the events in various ways. Genesis is particularly (and unapologetically) poetic in its opening, and is telling a very "real" thing about God's plans for humanity and our rebellion at the point of our self-awareness -- but it is not a flat account of how a certain garden would look if you were there on the scene watching a weird snake. And yet, they are not allegory or metaphor, but claims that God in fact did drive the events, and actually speak to his people in various ways whether or not it was vocal or present in the way it will be retold, etc.

This is not even to get into Christianity's distinctly renewed relationship to the Old Testament, where Jesus himself constantly uses the formula "you have heard it said __, but I say __" to reinterpret the intention of the commandments etc, and to suggest that the original forms of scripture were incomplete without his completion that finalizes and reinterprets all of it in a new clarity.

 

[paolo11]

Happy Sunday. God bless you all. Jesus wins all the time. Jesus is my Lord and Savior.