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Chris Dring at GDC: Xbox sales flatlining in Europe, majority of Xbox games coming to PS5 at some point, MS putting less focus on GamePass

FalconPunch

Gold Member
Counter strike 2
Dota
lol
Escape from Tarkov
WOW
Pretty much most of PCVR games, most importantly HL Alyx
Sons of the forest
Football Manager (On Console)
Valheim
Lethal company
Palworld (On Xbox)
Guild Wars 2
Phasmophobia
iRacing (Will never be relevant on console due to it's montization.)
Valorant


There's many more, aside from the fact that the xbox library aside from a couple trash games is not available on PS and most likely won't fully be (doubt they'll bother porting old games)

We could go on all day but:

1) We already know you don't argue in good faith when it comes to PC/Steam
2) You don't own a PC.

And finally 3, your next argument will be that the list of games is all trash or uninteresting or that you don't need to spend a lot of money on a PC to run them (How is this bad?).


it's ok, the PS5 is great, I have a big collection of games for it and mostly play there. But it's not the be all end all.
Again, most of the games you listed, especially those of the strategy genre would play poorly on console. All those FPS with no aim assist are dead in water on console. The games that usually don't come to console are games that usually don't play well on console. Those who are interested in those games know where to find them.
 

jm89

Member
It’s funny how you can see the Sony warriors shifting focus to PC in real time. Here we are in an Xbox thread and half the posts are people who have never used a gaming PC in their life whining about the pitfalls of the platform. Those sony ports were a tough pill to swallow for a lot of you.
lucy-weird.gif
 
Pretty incredible on how bad a job that Phil has done. I think this is probably a hot take on here, but feel like it's just obvious that he has been worse than Mattrick. He has completely killed this brand, to the point it nearly has no market. He has spend BILLIONS on devs and publishers and still don't compare with Nintendo and Sony in terms of exclusives. He completely trained the little fan base they have to not buy games which is now causing them to have to go to PC and now their biggest competitor, PS5.

I get some of this are rumors but the fact they seem to be going in on a handheld, while they already have 2 skus and would need a third for the lowest leader in this industry is just insanity. I also say this as someone who wants gamepass to fail as subscription services absolutely suck and we need less of them in the world, why would you abandon that now? You invested so much, you pretty much need to go all in with in and Xbox is just gonna have to live with the results regardless. Don't get me wrong, it was a stupid bet to make, but what is the genius plan to gain market share without that?

He just doesn't seem to understand the market and what consumers what, at all. I think back to that podcast he did last year where he talked about how starfield being an 11 out of 10 and how they lost the most "important" gen because of digital libraries and just wonder to myself, how the hell did this guy get to the head of Xbox. He is just absolutely clueless.
 
1. Fire Phil
2. Single SKU going foreard
3. All 1st party games available on GP but not at launch
4. No more games on PS5, Switch and PC unless it’s an indie game - you want to play ESVI, you buy an Xbox

Satya, call me anytime.
U forgot exclusive games, don’t know how they expect to sell consoles without exclusive games, day one pc games are not exclusive.
 

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
Pretty incredible on how bad a job that Phil has done. I think this is probably a hot take on here, but feel like it's just obvious that he has been worse than Mattrick. He has completely killed this brand, to the point it nearly has no market. He has spend BILLIONS on devs and publishers and still don't compare with Nintendo and Sony in terms of exclusives. He completely trained the little fan base they have to not buy games which is now causing them to have to go to PC and now their biggest competitor, PS5.

I get some of this are rumors but the fact they seem to be going in on a handheld, while they already have 2 skus and would need a third for the lowest leader in this industry is just insanity. I also say this as someone who wants gamepass to fail as subscription services absolutely suck and we need less of them in the world, why would you abandon that now? You invested so much, you pretty much need to go all in with in and Xbox is just gonna have to live with the results regardless. Don't get me wrong, it was a stupid bet to make, but what is the genius plan to gain market share without that?

He just doesn't seem to understand the market and what consumers what, at all. I think back to that podcast he did last year where he talked about how starfield being an 11 out of 10 and how they lost the most "important" gen because of digital libraries and just wonder to myself, how the hell did this guy get to the head of Xbox. He is just absolutely clueless.

He’s absolutely worse than Mattrick

Phil has had over a decade to make great games that define the Xbox brand like the 360 era and he’s utterly failed
 

Sleepwalker

Member
Again, most of the games you listed, especially those of the strategy genre would play poorly on console. All those FPS with no aim assist are dead in water on console. The games that usually don't come to console are games that usually don't play well on console. Those who are interested in those games know where to find them.

I am not arguing otherwise, his point whoever is that all games are available on console, which is factually not true. lol
 

cireza

Member
Not going to throw money at the company you have been advertising for free for the last decade, sorry to kill your mood. I did it in the past (PS3/PSP/PSVita) and they basically took my money and fucked me (two unreliable PS3s with their shitty customer "service", leaked my credit card on the net, zero comprehension of the handheld market, abandon support for Vita and their shitty memory cards). I am not the kind of person who forgets. They are not getting a penny from me anymore.
 
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Fabieter

Member
Hmm, I recall saying in the past that the vast majority of consoles gamers will still be console gamers regardless. I still believe that to be true. But "no one"? Nah....that just doesn't make any sense.

If you have life long console gamers saying they are looking to pc than I highly doubt it will stay at the vast majority.
 

Oppoi

Member
Ah yes, everyone is going to get "ass fucked" if Xbox exits the home console market when they were the ones who introduced the concept of having to pay to play games online (they even tried to introduce this on PC once, laughably) and they are still attempting to sell overpriced proprietary storage solutions in 2024.

Give me a break.
Wz11GTn.jpg
Always amusing when apologists make the case that if a the monopolistic company worth three of the big ones in this image would stop bleeding money trying to take control the industry by force... why that would be chaos!
 
Redfall should have been the shoe up the ass Phil needed. I stand by my original take that Phil saying they can't turn it around with a couple 11 out of 10 games was when I lost all faith in the guy. That should be the main goal no matter what your market share is because that's literally what gamers want!
 

Kacho

Gold Member
He just doesn't seem to understand the market and what consumers what, at all. I think back to that podcast he did last year where he talked about how starfield being an 11 out of 10 and how they lost the most "important" gen because of digital libraries and just wonder to myself, how the hell did this guy get to the head of Xbox. He is just absolutely clueless.
This isn't exclusive to Phil. It's a cultural problem within Xbox and Microsoft as a whole. No matter who they replace Phil with, whether it be Bond, Booty, etc, they will be just as out of touch.
 
These definitions of low-mid-high end pc's are getting a little crazy for me. Are you considering a $500-$600 card mid-tier? Because that is enough to get you beating consoles handily. If so, where does high end start? Even if it starts at 4080, you have several hundreds of more dollars to go for a 4090 so why would you not simply afford that?
600 gpu is not mid-tier, it's low tier. I would say yes, 4080 and 7900xtx is high tier and 4090 is enthusiast. Also the gpu is only 1 of the components, you need everything else as well, high end cpu, board, memory, cooling, nvme, case, etc, etc.
So if you're talking a high tier experience, you're definitely talking multiple $1000's. And guess what, that's only lasting you for about 2 years, in 2 years time if you want to remain in the high tier, you have to rebuy most of those components all over again (y)

So yeah, I think my point still stands. If you can afford high end PC gaming, the $400 or $500 for a console that lets you play a bunch of quality exclusives is pretty much peanuts, why wouldn't you have both?
 

Crayon

Member
600 gpu is not mid-tier, it's low tier. I would say yes, 4080 and 7900xtx is high tier and 4090 is enthusiast. Also the gpu is only 1 of the components, you need everything else as well, high end cpu, board, memory, cooling, nvme, case, etc, etc.
So if you're talking a high tier experience, you're definitely talking multiple $1000's. And guess what, that's only lasting you for about 2 years, in 2 years time if you want to remain in the high tier, you have to rebuy most of those components all over again (y)

So yeah, I think my point still stands. If you can afford high end PC gaming, the $400 or $500 for a console that lets you play a bunch of quality exclusives is pretty much peanuts, why wouldn't you have both?

If that's thigh end, then yah that person could def impulse buy a PS5. Or at least plan to buy one easily.
 

Topher

Identifies as young
If you have life long console gamers saying they are looking to pc than I highly doubt it will stay at the vast majority.

The vast majority of console gamers want that simply, cheap console living room gaming experience. A game or two a year going to PC a year or two after launch isn't enough to change that for most, imo.
 

Mr Moose

Member
lol nonsense. Sales split show 15-20% sales go to Xbox. 55-60% go to PS5 and the rest of the 15-20% go to PC in UK. So if they stop portin games Xbox, might as well stop shipping games on PC.

20% might sound low but sometimes it comes down to whether or not you are profitable. So if they skip Xbox, they better hope to make that up on PS5 and PC. And good luck with that.

MS just needs to kill gamepass because they have trained their users to not buy games and wait for them to show up on gamepass. Xbox userbase always used to spend more per user than the PS userbase up until the X1 era. It was only after gamepass did we start to see lower spending on the box. Kill gamepass and you will see people spend more.
In Europe 2023, it went like this: PC > PS5 > Switch > PS4 > Xbox Series.
 

Fabieter

Member
The vast majority of console gamers want that simply, cheap console living room gaming experience. A game or two a year going to PC a year or two after launch isn't enough to change that for most, imo.

1p exclusive were the last straw. Consoles had dozens of (mostly japanese) third party exclusive which they lost throughout the last two gens.

And it's both ms and sony games releasing on pc which makes it even more attractive compared to get both Consoles.

I predict a hard time for sony when nintendo manages to get out a half decent console techwise.
 

Solidus_T

Banned
How do you know? You don't play on PC...
Think Which One GIF
Primarily PC gamer here. Come on dude; you know PC is a hellscape with cheaters. Depending on the game, you won't find EFI hacks, DMA cheats , AHK scripts, pixel bots, etc on console like you do on PC. Yes, you can still find people using those Cronus devices, but not the crazy shit you'll find in Valorant and CS. It's so bad, you could go to Aliexpress and buy a custom Arduino pixel bot with an anime waifu on it for 10 bucks for an easy PC cheat, and a lot of people do this.
 
If that's thigh end, then yah that person could def impulse buy a PS5. Or at least plan to buy one easily.
Exactly, that's all I'm saying. A console costs $500 and "lasts" 6/7/8 years currently. In 8 years you see 4 new generations of GPUs alone. To remain in high end PC gaming you're having to at least triple dip on a new system in that amount of time.
I'm not throwing shade at PC gaming, I'm in that ecosystem for decades, but I think sometimes people try to create an artificial war when there's none to be had.
At high end, console and PC markets are not at all competing. 2 completely different segments and a consumer with very different purchasing power.

Of course if someone is on a tight budget and wants to make their investment last, they will need to make a very informed decision. But chances are they aren't any high end PC gamer. Not for long at least.
 
This isn't exclusive to Phil. It's a cultural problem within Xbox and Microsoft as a whole. No matter who they replace Phil with, whether it be Bond, Booty, etc, they will be just as out of touch.
Maybe. Don't get me started on Booty, he is probably somehow worse than Phil. I would pay legit money to see what he does over the course of a week or even month because I'm convinced he literally does nothing at all.

I just have to think their are better answers internally or someone as an outside hire who could do a much better job, that wouldnt be too hard to find.
 

Kerotan

Member
The opportunity you thought was there was not. The opportunity to build ground for Microsoft would have needed to start in 2014-2016.



The Series S is the better selling system. I don't think the Series S was a mistake. If anything without a significantly cheaper option, this could have been even uglier for Microsoft.



They had to prioritize supply for the US and UK. This almost certainly sent them even further back in Europe, where they actually an opportunity to compete with supply constrained PlayStation. Maybe with a sufficient pricing model and marketing, they could have made an impact there.





You're absolutely correct. GamePass was in fact the real killer here, but it was also a hail mary. Nintendo took a hail mary on Wii and it worked. They took a hail mary on Switch and it worked. Microsoft took a hail mary and it didn't work. Can't blame them, because without GamePass Xbox One probably doesn't sell nearly as well as it did and you're still in the same position that you are now.

The reality is even launching a successor to the Xbox One was a bit of a miracle for Microsoft who wanted out of the hardware business.



PlayStation is always going to be the more convenient place to play compared to PC. Games will in large part run better on PlayStation than PC (not necessarily at a higher spec, but less buggy).

Sony is going to jump into handhelds and PC in a large way in the coming years, so it'll be interesting to see a new dynamic of competition between Sony and Nintendo and Sony and Valve, but maybe most importantly Sony and Nvidia.
It only sold because during COVID people couldn't get a PS5 or Xbox X. Most people sold or dumped theirs when they could upgrade. It's a disgrace of a next gen console and it's putting devs in an awkward position.
 
600 gpu is not mid-tier, it's low tier. I would say yes, 4080 and 7900xtx is high tier and 4090 is enthusiast. Also the gpu is only 1 of the components, you need everything else as well, high end cpu, board, memory, cooling, nvme, case, etc, etc.
So if you're talking a high tier experience, you're definitely talking multiple $1000's. And guess what, that's only lasting you for about 2 years, in 2 years time if you want to remain in the high tier, you have to rebuy most of those components all over again (y)

So yeah, I think my point still stands. If you can afford high end PC gaming, the $400 or $500 for a console that lets you play a bunch of quality exclusives is pretty much peanuts, why wouldn't you have both?
What kind of videogames enthusiast buys the newest hardware with the lowest cost to performance ratio every other year? Most builds last close to a decade. There are probably more Steam Deck users... Crypto farms on the other hand...
 
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Clintizzle

Lord of Edge.
I will throw this out there, gamed with some high people "in the know" over the weekend and as of right now, Monday the 25th, I stand by what I said months ago, they are doubling down
Good to know and thanks for sharing. Dont care too much about how Xbox is doing vs PlayStation. I just want to play all the games that the acquired studios are working on as there are surely some that will be certified bangers!
 

Putonahappyface

Gold Member
Let's make things even more bleak by killing off physical media for our consumers and potential customers. Why does Xbox want even less sales I genuinely don't understand there mindset?

kI5Dy6N.gif
 
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Topher

Identifies as young
I will throw this out there, gamed with some high people "in the know" over the weekend and as of right now, Monday the 25th, I stand by what I said months ago, they are doubling down

Glad to hear it. They gotta have something new in the works then. No way they are going to put out an RDNA 3 or 4 version of the same thing they have done and expect different results. Doubling down, to me, means they believe they can compete.
 

GHG

Member
Not going to throw money at the company you have been advertising for free for the last decade, sorry to kill your mood. I did it in the past (PS3/PSP/PSVita) and they basically took my money and fucked me (two unreliable PS3s with their shitty customer "service", leaked my credit card on the net, zero comprehension of the handheld market, abandon support for Vita and their shitty memory cards). I am not the kind of person who forgets. They are not getting a penny from me anymore.

So it is irrational bitterness and hatred towards Sony that has driven you to stan for Xbox until it's last gasp? Even though you're demonstrably not getting what you desire out of the platform?

Episode 2 GIF by Star Wars
 

SkylineRKR

Member
Xbox really is laughing stock in Europe. I would say its at an all time worse, FAR worse than the Xbox One era.

You basically have to look for Xbox stuff, if store chains even carry it. And when they do, its usually a fraction of shelf space compared to even PS4.
 
The orders have been sent, see my post above


army marching GIF
Yes. This Jez guy is just a turd, and the community knows that. And I know he is quite hurt by it. Listening to the Xbox Two podcast and Twitter, I've heard how many fans blame people like him for the negative news/rumors surrounding Xbox. He sounds defeated... but keeps spinning; that's what they do

So, I'm just waiting for the breaking point (which is getting closer and closer).
 
Primarily PC gamer here. Come on dude; you know PC is a hellscape with cheaters. Depending on the game, you won't find EFI hacks, DMA cheats , AHK scripts, pixel bots, etc on console like you do on PC. Yes, you can still find people using those Cronus devices, but not the crazy shit you'll find in Valorant and CS. It's so bad, you could go to Aliexpress and buy a custom Arduino pixel bot with an anime waifu on it for 10 bucks for an easy PC cheat, and a lot of people do this.
Do you do it or personally interact with those that do or is this hearsay?
 
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