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[midnightAI]

And yet they ignored the thousands of girls (and boys) abuse under grooming gangs.

Does that change the fact this is a crime though?

Should they ignore this because they didnt do their job properly previously? of course they shouldnt

 

[midnightAI]

that's a crime if it's beyond question the minor is in fact a minor. This did not occur in real life. In theory there was every chance the girl was an adult and presenting as a minor. Do you see the legal difficulty in treating VR as real life?

What? so she isnt real now? a person wasnt there (a minor, under 16) to receive the abuse? what am reading?

Why on earth do you think this is being investigated?

 

[Three]

I don't think anybody is saying they support the people doing this. But what does this mean? Does today's policing unquestionably belong in the digital space? Should you be investigated for shooting an avatar in a game where they aren't expecting to be shot? These questions need to be worked out.

Do you trust our existing police forces to set new standards and lines as VR becomes more widespread?

And what crime was committed here?

It already is in the digital space regarding minors and indecency online, why wouldn't this extend to VR? That is probably why this is being investigated at all.

 

[gaming_again]

What? so she isnt real now? a person wasnt there (a minor, under 16) to receive the abuse? what am reading?

Why on earth do you think this is being investigated?

I didn't say she wasnt real. Where are you getting that from?

It's being investigated because who ever is in charge of the police considers the internet to host greater threats than real life, because our institutions are obsessed with image over reality.

I'm never going to convince you and you won't convince me. We have a fundamentally different view of policing, criminality, and what the internet constitutes.

 

[Three]

It's being investigated because who ever is in charge of the police considers the internet to host greater threats than real life, because our institutions are obsessed with image over reality.

This is complete hogwash. This is like saying "why are you arresting me for stealing when some dude is probably murdering somebody somewhere. you must consider stealing a greater threat than murder!"

 

[gaming_again]

This is complete hogwash. This is like saying "why are you arresting me for stealing when some dude is probably murdering somebody somewhere. you must consider stealing a greater threat than murder!"

No, it's because if I write something deemed offensive to somebody on Twitter, I am more liable to get into trouble than if I steal a bike outside of a gym. And it's not because it's easier for me to be traced.

If you can't see the obsession with image over reality in how information is presented to us today from institutions, then I don't know what to say. We occupy totally different mindsets. To my mind it is the primary story of the 2000s.

 

[midnightAI]

I didn't say she wasnt real. Where are you getting that from?

It's being investigated because who ever is in charge of the police considers the internet to host greater threats than real life, because our institutions are obsessed with image over reality.

I'm never going to convince you and you won't convince me. We have a fundamentally different view of policing, criminality, and what the internet constitutes.

Because you said 'This did not occur in real life', just because its in VR/or online is irrelevant, it was still said to a real human being (In this case a minor, which is the law that has been broken).

 

[gaming_again]

Because you said 'This did not occur in real life', just because its in VR/or online is irrelevant, it was still said to a real human being.

It's not irrelevant because VR/online is not real life. It is fake and malleable and if we start treating it as a real life we're going to run into trouble at a civilisational scale.

 

[midnightAI]

It's not irrelevant because VR/online is not real life. It is fake and malleable and if we start treating it as a real life we're going to run into trouble at a civilisational scale.

The people giving and subjected to the abuse are real though, in that sense there is no difference, just because you sit behind a keyboard. Otherwise you or I could go on a racist tirade, start saying whatever we wanted to underage kids, send death threats to anyone we wanted.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Yes, of course its a crime, you cant go around saying sexual things to a minor, its that simple and is the same for many countries not just the UK.

I guess you might want to look into your kids school library then..

Or is it okay if it's state sanctioned for 11+?

 

[gaming_again]

The people giving and subjected to the abuse are real though, in that sense there is no difference, just because you sit behind a keyboard. Otherwise you or I could go on a racist tirade, start saying whatever we wanted to underage kids, send death threats to anyone we wanted.

Well I agree none of those are pleasant, but I don't know if you can class abusing somebody on the street and sending text messages to somebody as the same thing. I am uncomfortable with words being classed as abuse without there being a physically threatening element there as well.

I guess my 'what crime has been committed here' comment was wrong, because in the eyes of the law a crime was committed. I question if it should be a crime, though.

If we are going to step into VR in a big way, I want to see a proper discussion on the role of the firms, the regulators, parents, the online participants, and lastly, the law. I don't want us to transpose what we have now onto the digital space. I don't think it's suitable at all.

 

[Optimus Lime]

The fact that there are people in this thread who are taking this seriously are so fucking funny to me.

There's a real easy way to fix this 'problem'. Show your kids where the 'off' switch is and teach them how to use it.

Touch grass, you clowns.

 

[Three]

No, it's because if I write something deemed offensive to somebody on Twitter, I am more liable to get into trouble than if I steal a bike outside of a gym. And it's not because it's easier for me to be traced.

Where is the evidence for this? It seems to be all based on your dismay that another crime is being investigated. It's more akin to somebody telling you a stolen bike is being investigated and you trying to suggest it isn't a crime because murder is more serious. What would you rather? "We are not investigating your reported crime because there are more serious crimes out there".

 

[midnightAI]

I guess you might want to look into your kids school library then..

Or is it okay if it's state sanctioned for 11+?

Is that directed as abuse at the child? come on now, dont be silly, or any word could not be used as abuse as its written down somewhere as informational text

(and I' pretty sure my child has never read that book, and any books of that nature require permission from the parent)

 

[gaming_again]

Where is the evidence for this? It seems to be all based on your dismay that another crime is being investigated. It's more akin to somebody telling you a stolen bike is being investigated and you trying to suggest it isn't a crime because murder is more serious. What would you rather? "We are not investigating your reported crime because there are more serious crimes out there".

It's that I don't consider rude words to be worthy of police time.

Evidence is in the numerous counts of people being investigated for online actions every day versus the ballooning real life crime stats.

You are framing my argument as a zero-sum approach to police resources but that isn't what I'm saying. Triage regarding crime isn't a bad argument in and of itself, though. But I'm not saying that.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

The fact that there are people in this thread who are taking this seriously are so fucking funny to me.

There's a real easy way to fix this 'problem'. Show your kids where the 'off' switch is and teach them how to use it.

Touch grass, you clowns.

I think you've missed the point slightly..

The problem isn't the fact of turning the computer 'off', it's the fact the police are 'investigating' it in the first place..

You know, while real people are being killed, daily. Grooming gangs rape kids, daily. Imported drug dealers operate with impunity, using kids, daily.

You know, real things. That police pretend don't happen.

 

[midnightAI]

I think you've missed the point slightly..

The problem isn't the fact of turning the computer 'off', it's the fact the police are 'investigating' it in the first place..

You know, while real people are being killed, daily. Grooming gangs rape kids, daily. Imported drug dealers operate with impunity, using kids, daily.

You know, real things. That police pretend don't happen.

Yes, they are stopping all other investigations to all solve this case.

(by the way, most cases like this are done by the Cyber Crimes unit (and CEOP), you know, employing more staff to help prevent crimes like this)

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Is that directed as abuse at the child? come on now, dont be silly, or any word could not be used as abuse as its written down somewhere as informational text

An 11 year old can go home, stick things up their bum without the parents knowing (Because the book says it's okay), causes damage and it's fine.. no worries, it's informational anyway

(and I' pretty sure my child has never read that book, and any books of that nature require permission from the parent)

That book was in my kids school library, for 11+. Any kid could take it. My son brought it home as he couldn't believe it himself and he was working in the library dealing with all books, he was 13

If you want to pretend these things are not happening, go ahead

But they are.

 

[Three]

It's that I don't consider rude words to be worthy of police time.

Evidence is in the numerous counts of people being investigated for online actions every day versus the ballooning real life crime stats.

You are framing my argument as a zero-sum approach to police resources but that isn't what I'm saying. Triage regarding crime isn't a bad argument in and of itself, though. But I'm not saying that.

Yet you've still provided no data on any of this. The fact that other crimes occur doesn't mean they are not given priority over online actions. You don't even know how much police time has been allocated to any of this. The only thing you know is that this crime is being investigated. That's all you seem to be dismayed by for some reason.

 

[midnightAI]

An 11 year old can go home, stick things up their bum without the parents knowing (Because the book says it's okay), causes damage and it's fine.. no worries, it's informational anyway

That book was in my kids school library, for 11+. Any kid could take it. My son brought it home as he couldn't believe it himself and he was working in the library dealing with all books, he was 13

If you want to pretend these things are not happening, go ahead

But they are.

Its still very different to adult strangers telling your children they would like to shove their bits inside your childrens bums don't you think? (and no, I dont think that book should be allowed, like I said, when my children where that age they had to send permission forms to us to sign before they could participate in any lesson that talked about sex ed. (there were also no books in their library of that nature, or at least not that i'm aware of, in that instance the school should have been notified of its content, but the school my kids went to were very strict on anything of that nature without permission, same went with any photographs no matter how innocent such as school trips)

 

[gaming_again]

Yet you've still provided no data on any of this. The fact that other crimes occur doesn't mean they are not given priority over online actions. You don't even know how much police time has been allocated to any of this. The only thing you know is that this crime is being investigated. That's all you seem to be dismayed by for some reason.

Correct, I'm not going to go around digging up stats. This is an online discussion, not work. There are plenty of them that back up my point.

I've explained what my 'some reasons' are many times. You are using faux naivety and misunderstanding to dismiss my point in an effort to make it look ridiculous instead of outright saying you think it's ridiculous. It's an insincere and boring technique.

 

[justiceiro]

The BBC has not yet confirmed on which platform the attack on the young girl's avatar took place but Meta has said in a statement: "The kind of behaviour described has no place on our platform, which is why for all users we have an automatic protection called personal boundary, which keeps people you don't know a few feet away from you.

Sooo.. case closed?

 

[midnightAI]

Sooo.. case closed?

It will be the verbal abuse the child suffered not anything visual, its still the correct course of action to investigate it due to the nature of the alleged abuse and their age even if nothing comes of it.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Its still very different to adult strangers telling your children they would like to shove their bits inside your childrens bums don't you think?

To even think we have to have this conversation is crazy in itself. Of course it's wrong, it's all bloody wrong, it's been going wrong for years and we're seeing the results

Sexualising an avatar? The police getting involved? Kids involved? Weird books in school. The whole premise itself is just odd

We're fucked aren't we. Rabbit hole after rabbit hole of utter weird shit with no end in sight.

All I can say is I'm trying to bring up someone in the next generation that isn't a weirdo, infact, he's probably the most well rounded human I know.

That's all I can do now and hope it doesn't get to him

 

[Three]

Correct, I'm not going to go around digging up stats. This is an online discussion, not work. There are plenty of them that back up my point.

I've explained what my 'some reasons' are many times. You are using faux naivety and misunderstanding to dismiss my point in an effort to make it look ridiculous instead of outright saying you think it's ridiculous. It's an insincere and boring technique.

You suggested your perception was evidence already and now refuse to provide data when I asked. There is nothing insincere about what I'm saying. I sincerely don't understand why you're up in arms about this lesser crime being investigated just because more serious crimes exist or occur. Those aren't being ignored for this and you've provided nothing to suggest they are.

 

[midnightAI]

To even think we have to have this conversation is crazy in itself. Of course it's wrong, it's all bloody wrong, it's been going wrong for years and we're seeing the results

Sexualising an avatar? The police getting involved? Kids involved? Weird books in school. The whole premise itself is just odd

We're fucked aren't we. Rabbit hole after rabbit hole of utter weird shit with no end in sight.

All I can say is I'm trying to bring up someone in the next generation that isn't a weirdo, infact, he's probably the most well rounded human I know.

That's all I can do now and hope it doesn't get to him

Thats all you can do, and yes, the world is getting weirder, and everyone is offended by everything (that does my nut in, sometimes it is warranted but 90% of the time people just want to complain about something, anything, guess that's why I like Ricky Gervais)

 

[Banjo64]

The UK Police need national reform.

They claim they are understaffed so can’t investigate burglaries and robberies but will happily investigate something like this.

They can’t control the streets (as we’ve seen with recent ‘protests’).

Just completely ridiculous.

 

[winjer]

There is something very wrong with a country that allows real rape cases to just be dropped due to delays, but wastes time with non-sense like this.

Nearly 70% of rape survivors dropped out of the justice system in the fourth quarter of last year, according to official government data.

Amid court delays, low police conviction rates and fears over the trauma of reliving the crime in court, 69.2% of those subjected to a serious sexual assault withdrew from investigations.

Nearly 70% of rape victims drop out of investigations in England and Wales

Exclusive: MoJ statistics unearthed by Labour as party presses Rishi Sunak to improve conviction rates

www.theguardian.com

 

[GHound]

Wait until they get told about the teabagging in Pavlov.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Should have said that he was palestinian or something

 

[Banjo64]

The title is stupid, but the actual content doesn’t seem especially controversial. The actual girl was a juvenile and that behavior is not acceptable. It’s the job of police and courts to investigate. If the claims do not show merit, they will be dismissed. That’s how it works.

Can you please point to me where in UK law it says your digital avatar can’t invade the personal space of another persons digital avatar?

 

[midnightAI]

Can you please point to me where in UK law it says your digital avatar can’t invade the personal space of another persons digital avatar?

Again, you are only picking that part of the story, they verbally abused her, she's under 16, a minor. Stop thinking about it as just an Avatar, a real (young) person was subjected to the verbal (and in this case sexual) abuse.

(and I agree, in this instance the visual aspect should be ignored if what they were playing at the time has no realistic interpretation of the human body or body parts)

 

[midnightAI]

There is something very wrong with a country that allows real rape cases to just be dropped due to delays, but wastes time with non-sense like this.

Nearly 70% of rape victims drop out of investigations in England and Wales

Exclusive: MoJ statistics unearthed by Labour as party presses Rishi Sunak to improve conviction rates

www.theguardian.com

So crimes less than rape shouldn't be investigated? Just because one part of the judicial system is screwed up doesn't mean you stop investigating lesser crimes.

 

[winjer]

So crimes less than rape shouldn't be investigated? Just because one part of the judicial system is screwed up doesn't mean you stop investigating lesser crimes.

I think real crimes, should take precedence over imaginary ones over the internet.

 

[BlackTron]

As a UK citizen, I can't say I'm surprised the police are investigating this.

You can be arrested and charged for posting messages online that cause offence to others. Say the wrong thing or post the wrong image and you'll be getting a visit from the police.

Damn you guys got Thought Police already?

 

[midnightAI]

I think real crimes, should take precedence over imaginary ones over the internet.

Right, 'imaginary', so she imagined the verbal abuse?

And you are assuming that this takes precedence because?

 

[winjer]

Right, 'imaginary', so she imagined the verbal abuse?

And you are assuming that this takes precedence because?

Do you really think that real cases of rape have no precedence over small things like this.
Your lack of priority and morals is staggering.

 

[midnightAI]

Do you really think that real cases of rape have no precedence over small things like this.
Your lack of priority and morals is staggering.

Eh? I never said otherwise (I honestly dont know where you got that from), that does not mean that they shouldn't investigate this, they do have more than one police man/woman/branch/unit working on these cases you know.

 

[Davevil]

 

[Little Mac]

Meanwhile kids have been ritualistically teabagging me in CoD for decades.

 

[winjer]

Eh? I never said otherwise, that does not mean that they shouldn't investigate this, they do have more than one police man/woman working on these cases you know.

They are wasting time on misdemeanors, when real crimes are unsolved. This is completely unfair to victims of real rape, that have their cases dropped due to delays.

 

[Three]

There is something very wrong with a country that allows real rape cases to just be dropped due to delays, but wastes time with non-sense like this.

That has nothing to do with eachother though. This case could likely result in it being dropped due to court delays or low conviction rates too. Judges and Lawyers in courts aren't doing the jobs of police investigations.

Read the article

“Tory cuts have left too few courts, too few judges, too few lawyers and too many complainants unable to put their lives on hold to wait for justice"

Dropping this investigation would do nothing to help here. In fact it will likely result in that "dropped sexual offences" stat increasing if they dropped this. People are complaining just for the sake of complaining.

 

[winjer]

That has nothing to do with eachother though. This case could likely result in it being dropped due to court delays or low conviction rates. Judges and Lawyers in courts aren't doing the jobs of police investigations.

“Tory cuts have left too few courts, too few judges, too few lawyers and too many complainants unable to put their lives on hold to wait for justice"

Dropping this investigation would do nothing to help here. In fact it will likely result in that "dropped sexual offences" stat increasing if they dropped this. People are complaining just for the sake of complaining.

This affects the whole judicial system, if the police, judges and courts are bottleneck by misdemeanors. Especially when it's stupid crap said over the internet.
Meanwhile people are getting raped, robbed and stabbed, and the judicial system does nothing.

 

[Bojji]

I felt sorry for the poor sod. I nudged him and said are you okay mate, he looks up, started grinning and smiling whilst saying 'sleep'. Two minutes later he was crying, then went back to sleep..

He looked rough as arseholes. Something shitty must've happend to him.

In Poland we really don't care about drunk people on the streets so he probably didn't expect any help, just some good nap. But you're a good person so thanks on his behalf.

To even think we have to have this conversation is crazy in itself. Of course it's wrong, it's all bloody wrong, it's been going wrong for years and we're seeing the results

Sexualising an avatar? The police getting involved? Kids involved? Weird books in school. The whole premise itself is just odd

We're fucked aren't we. Rabbit hole after rabbit hole of utter weird shit with no end in sight.

All I can say is I'm trying to bring up someone in the next generation that isn't a weirdo, infact, he's probably the most well rounded human I know.

That's all I can do now and hope it doesn't get to him

This is how rabbit hole looks like in 2024

Do you really think that real cases of rape have no precedence over small things like this.
Your lack of priority and morals is staggering.

Pretty much. Police should be solving crimes like this after they manage to catch people that were hurting others (including children) in reality. But they could be called racist or something so it's safer to do internet stuff.

 

[Juza]

 

[winjer]

Let's remember how the UK police ignore for many years, the real rape of real girls.

Why Did British Police Ignore Pakistani Gangs Abusing 1,400 Rotherham Children? Political Correctness

A story of rampant child abuse—ignored and abetted by the police—is emerging out of the British town of Rotherham. Until now, its scale and scope would have been inconceivable in a civilized country. Its origins, however, lie in something quite ordinary: what one Labour MP called "not wanting to...

www.forbes.com

 

[midnightAI]

They are wasting time on misdemeanors, when real crimes are unsolved. This is completely unfair to victims of real rape, that have their cases dropped due to delays.

And as I have said before, cases like this go to the relevant department, in this case CEOP and/or Cyber Crimes Unit, this wont affect any other crimes unless it then goes to court (unlikely) and if it does go to court then they have a case worthy of going there.

 

[winjer]

And as I have said before, cases like this go to the relevant department, in this case CEOP and/or Cyber Crimes Unit, this wont affect any other crimes unless it then goes to court (unlikely) and if it does go to court then they have a case worthy of going there.

That takes resources and personnel away from departments that investigate real crimes.

But even if we take only internet crimes, why waste time on nonsense like that when there are real crimes, of huge magnitude not being tackled with the importance they deserve?

Over £1.2 billion stolen through fraud in 2022, with nearly 80 per cent of APP fraud cases starting online

Read the latest news and insights from UK Finance: Over £1.2 billion stolen through fraud in 2022, with nearly 80 per cent of APP fraud cases starting online

www.ukfinance.org.uk

 

[midnightAI]

That takes resources and personnel away from departments that investigate real crimes.

Right, so what you are saying is everyone can say whatever they want to whoever they want no matter the age with no repercussions online because you don't think its a real crime? (even though it is)

I don't care about all these other crimes you are bringing up, they are completely irrelevant separate cases dealt with by completely separate departments within and outside the police force. There is ZERO evidence that them ivestigating this case means that a physical rape case will be pushed to the side.

 

[Red5]

That takes resources and personnel away from departments that investigate real crimes.

No one should be above the law, if they broke a relevant law in the UK then they should be prosecuted.

This felony in particular falls on the Cybercrime division, which does not deal with real world rapes, so it does not take away any human resources from the relevant departments.