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[Topher]

iPod was far from their only mistake. Look where Sony were in 2000 vs where they are today. I think it's much more illogical that people retain faith in a company with that track record.

Nothing you are saying is going to make the $52 billion console market evaporate into thin air.

 

[Thief1987]

Whose alt was awaken from its slumber?

 

[m14]

It's like if the football game whatever the fuck that's called these days or GTA6 didn't come to the console. With how many they sell each year and with people who buy consoles just for those games, it would affect business.

It would make their console business non viable.

Nothing you are saying is going to make the $52 billion console market evaporate into thin air.

And nothing from Sony's track record suggests they won't have their lunch eaten once again by a more innovative company.

 

[Mr Moose]

It would make their console business non viable.

 

[Thief1987]

And nothing from Sony's track record suggests they won't have their lunch eaten once again by a more innovative company.

Ok. You can dream about that during your restless nights, no one stop you. What's the point of your blabbering?

 

[Kerotan]

Black Ops 6 sales were down 15% on MW3, which is a huge disappointment for MS considering the following factors.

MW3 was one of the worst-rated games in Call of Duty's history, and its sales were down considerably over MW2. Modern Warfare 3 was a cheap glorified DLC which resulted in a sales disappointment and was destroyed by the reviews from critics and user reviews. MS fucked around and found out.

Here are the UK monthly charts for the MW3 release month :

Call of Duty couldn't stop video game sales dipping in November | UK Monthly Charts

Over 4.55 million video games were sold during November in the UK, a drop of 3% over the same period in 2022. This is a…

www.gamesindustry.biz

It's not looking good for the COD franchise. MS ruined another IP and Bobby Kotick cashed out like a bandit.

MS got screwed over big time by Kotick who got lucky with the 2020 COVID/WZ revival but has since run the franchise into the ground. The smart thing would have been to either properly remaster MW2 2009 last year or a $50 MW2 expansion. And next year do likewise or a BO1 remaster.

 

[mayham2199]

And nothing from Sony's track record suggests they won't have their lunch eaten once again by a more innovative company.

Haha of course that can happen to any company including MS. You don't think they've had their lunch eaten as well? Your basically saying "Hey businesses fail". Cool we all know that.

 

[Topher]

And nothing from Sony's track record suggests they won't have their lunch eaten once again by a more innovative company.

Nothing from Apple's track record prior to the late 90s suggested they would be one of the richest companies in the world one day either. And yet here we are. At the same time, Michael Dell was mocking Apple and telling them they should give their stockholders their money back. Turns out Dell was the one that had to do just that. So what does any of this prove about the future? Jack shit. You wanting shit to go south for consoles simply because Xbox isn't doing so well doesn't mean it is going to happen.

 

[Ebrietas]

A major Xbox first party game underperforming in sales is somehow bad news for Sony and great news for MS?

 

[m14]

You think PlayStation would survive as a viable business without GTA/COD/EAFC?

Ok. You can dream about that during your restless nights, no one stop you. What's the point of your blabbering?

I'm sorry if you found my history lesson upsetting. What in particular about my posts do you disagree with?

Nothing from Apple's track record prior to the late 90s suggested they would be one of the richest companies in the world one day either. And yet here we are. At the same time, Michael Dell was mocking Apple and telling them they should give their stockholders their money back. Turns out Dell was the one that had to do just that. So what does any of this prove about the future? Jack shit. You wanting shit to go south for consoles simply because Xbox isn't doing so well doesn't mean it is going to happen.

That's your interpretation of my posts. I understand it's uncomfortable to be reminded of Sony's repeated failings, but it's odd to pretend that their current position is unassailable given their history.

 

[Mr Moose]

You think PlayStation would survive as a viable business without GTA/COD/EAFC?

Switch is doing just fine.
Like I said, it would affect sales and business. It wouldn't kill the brand though.

 

[m14]

Switch is doing just fine.
Like I said, it would affect sales and business. It wouldn't kill the brand though.

Switch does well because it caters to a very different market. And they have much stronger first party ip and games.

 

[Mr Moose]

Switch does well because it caters to a very different market. And they have much stronger first party ip and games.

One brand is doing bad even with those big games. Can't think which one it is though...

 

[Topher]

That's your interpretation of my posts. I understand it's uncomfortable to be reminded of Sony's repeated failings, but it's odd to pretend that their current position us unassailable given their history.

Absolutely that is my interpretation of your posts. But I never said Sony's position is "unassailable" at all, now did I?

One brand is doing bad even with those big games. Can't think which one it is though...

Hmm, that means they are destined to continue to fail, doesn't it? COD doomed, confirmed?

 

[Ebrietas]

The industry is a lot bigger than just COD. If it ceased to exist, it's because people lost interest and moved onto other games. PS existed before COD and it will exist after it's gone.

The only entity that loses if COD tanks is the one that just spent $70 billion buying the COD company.

 

[m14]

One brand is doing bad even with those big games. Can't think which one it is though...

I'm genuinely surprised someone would believe that PlayStation is in any way viable without those games, especially when Sony themselves don't.

Absolutely that is my interpretation of your posts. But I never said Sony's position is "unassailable" at all, now did I?

I never put unassailable in quotation marks. But you clearly suggested it was absurd that someone could have any doubts about the future of Sony consoles despite the long list of their failures as a company this century.

The industry is a lot bigger than just COD. If it ceased to exist, it's because people lost interest and moved onto other games. PS existed before COD and it will exist after it's gone.

The only entity that loses if COD tanks is the one that just spent $70 billion buying the COD company.

Jim Ryan: 'Our Business Would Never Recover' If Microsoft Degraded Call of Duty on PlayStation

Sony Interactive Entertainment President and CEO Jim Ryan in the company's response to the UK regulator, the Competition [...]

www.vgchartz.com

 

[Topher]

I never put unassailable in quotation marks. But you clearly suggested it was absurd that someone could have any doubts about the future of Sony consoles despite the long list of their failures as a company this century.

I suggested no such thing. I stated flatly that I thought your logic was flawed and gave reasons why. Nothing more.

 

[Mr Moose]

Absolutely that is my interpretation of your posts. But I never said Sony's position is "unassailable" at all, now did I?



Hmm, that means they are destined to continue to fail, doesn't it? COD doomed, confirmed?

 

[m14]

I suggested no such thing. I stated flatly that I thought your logic was flawed and gave reasons why. Nothing more.

Nothing from Apple's track record prior to the late 90s suggested they would be one of the richest companies in the world one day either. And yet here we are. At the same time, Michael Dell was mocking Apple and telling them they should give their stockholders their money back. Turns out Dell was the one that had to do just that. So what does any of this prove about the future? Jack shit. You wanting shit to go south for consoles simply because Xbox isn't doing so well doesn't mean it is going to happen.

How else to interpret this post other than "history doesn't matter"? You can't argue with the fact of Sony's spectacular past failures so you try to diminish their relevance regarding the future of consoles.

 

[Ebrietas]

Jim Ryan: 'Our Business Would Never Recover' If Microsoft Degraded Call of Duty on PlayStation

Sony Interactive Entertainment President and CEO Jim Ryan in the company's response to the UK regulator, the Competition [...]

www.vgchartz.com

Jesus Christ. He was referring to scenario where COD is exclusive to Xbox or inferior on PS. In other words, a world where COD is still a big deal. And even then the courts didn't agree with him that it would substantially affect PS sales.

If COD itself goes belly up under Xbox "leadership", that only hurts COD and Xbox. Life goes on for everyone else. New games take its place and Sony gets its 30% cut from the biggest games regardless. They're not married to call of duty. Microsoft is.

 

[Mr Moose]

How else to interpret this post other than "history doesn't matter"? You can't argue with the fact of Sony's spectacular past failures so you try to diminish their relevance regarding the future of consoles.

 

[Topher]

How else to interpret this post other than "history doesn't matter"? You can't argue with the fact of Sony's spectacular past failures so you try to diminish their relevance regarding the future of consoles.

Examples that the past, whether it be success or failure, doesn't necessarily determine the future. How was that not obvious? You are really grasping here my man.

 

[m14]

Jesus Christ. He was referring to scenario where COD is exclusive to Xbox or inferior on PS. In other words, a world where COD is still a big deal. And even then the courts didn't agree with him that it would substantially affect PS sales.

If COD itself goes belly up under Xbox "leadership", that only hurts COD and Xbox. Life goes on for everyone else. New games take its place and Sony gets its 30% cut from the biggest games regardless. They're not married to call of duty. Microsoft is.

COD remains a big deal, as shown by the sales numbers in this thread. Sony could not contemplate a future without COD on their platform and the statements from the former PlayStation CEO make that very clear.

 

[Mr Moose]

COD remains a big deal, as shown by the sales numbers in this thread. Sony could not contemplate a future without COD on their platform and the statements from the former PlayStation CEO make that very clear.

What platform?
Only one of those increased in sales since MW2.
CoD needs PS as much as PS needs CoD.

 

[m14]

Examples that the past, whether it be success or failure, doesn't necessarily determine the future. How was that not obvious? You are really grasping here my man.

I never said it did. It's just curious how many posters such as yourself are keen to handwave away Sony's past failures and pretend that they have no bearing on how the future of consoles may play out.
Have Sony become a bigger company since the year 2000 or a diminished one? That doesn't mean they will fail in future but it does suggest that the excessive confidence in Sony from many posters on here isn't justifiable.

What platform?
Only one of those increased in sales since MW2.
CoD needs PS as much as PS needs CoD.

Does someone need to explain the concept of Gamepass again?

 

[Topher]

That doesn't mean they will fail in future

Good. We agree then. That's all I've been saying.

 

[Mr Moose]

I never said it did. It's just curious how many posters such as yourself are keen to handwave away Sony's past failures and pretend that they have no bearing on how the future of consoles may play out.
Have Sony become a bigger company since the year 2000 or a diminished one? That doesn't mean they will fail in future but it does suggest that the excessive confidence in Sony from many posters on here isn't justifiable.


Does someone need to explain the concept of Gamepass again?

Since you like quoting people from the Activision thing, you seem to have missed Bobby's comment.

FTC hearing: Kotick says Gamepass is value-destructive, doesn't agree with Microsoft's strategy

Jimbob redeemed?

www.neogaf.com

 

[BigLee74]

And this is a real samurai.....

Hey! Thats a stanurai/samuranley!

 

[ZehDon]

What platform?
Only one of those increased in sales since MW2.
CoD needs PS as much as PS needs CoD.

Not really, visible by three key reasons: history, PSN subscribers, and COD marketing.
COD continues to drive PlayStation's PSN subscriptions because its required for its addictive multiplayer. Sony moved away from producing its own titles to drive PSN subscriptions during the PS4 era, relying mostly on third parties to do the heavy lifting, which a few exceptions, like GT. One of Ryan's initiatives was his GaaS push, which while serving as a microtransaction engine, also help ween PlayStation off its fundamental need for third parties to push PSN for it. Given PSN is where PlayStation makes a sizeable chunk of its profits, this is a pretty smart move for their long term survival despite the shit slung his way.
In addition, Sony wouldn't have outbid Microsoft for the marketing rights basically since the PS4 if COD wasn't a fundamental driver for them. Whoever has COD in their corner gets those sweet platform royalties and online subscription dollars. That brand association takes a while to die off, as we saw with the first COD iterations during the PS4 era where Xbox was still posting majority sales riding high from the 360, so expecting it to change over night doesn't make sense. I'd also wager Microsoft is easing into its owner role, likely to let regulators relax after the tumultuous acquisition process, before going hard on the Xbox marketing for future iterations.
If Call of Duty wasn't on PlayStation, do you think the +30 million annual players would just... stop? They haven't stopped in nearly 15 years, despite the marketing deal changing hands. In fact, they migrated from Xbox to PlayStation, following their favourite game. Without Call of Duty, PlayStation wouldn't survive in its current form - as Jim Ryan testified. (That's part of the reason for this GaaS push). COD is, and will continue to be, an absolutely core pillar for PlayStation. PlayStation, however, just so happens to be fans current platform of choice - a choice that's changed in the past, and may change again in the future.

 

[Mr Moose]

Not really, visible by three key reasons: history, PSN subscribers, and COD marketing.
COD continues to drive PlayStation's PSN subscriptions because its required for its addictive multiplayer. Sony moved away from producing its own titles to drive PSN subscriptions during the PS4 era, relying mostly on third parties to do the heavy lifting, which a few exceptions, like GT. One of Ryan's initiatives was his GaaS push, which while serving as a microtransaction engine, also help ween PlayStation off its fundamental need for third parties to push PSN for it. Given PSN is where PlayStation makes a sizeable chunk of its profits, this is a pretty smart move for their long term survival despite the shit slung his way.
In addition, Sony wouldn't have outbid Microsoft for the marketing rights basically since the PS4's launch if COD wasn't a fundamental driver for them. Whoever has COD in their corner gets those sweet platform royalties and online subscription dollars. That brand association takes a while to die off, as we saw with the first COD iterations during the PS4 era where Xbox was still posting majority sales, so expecting it to change over night doesn't make sense. I'd also wager Microsoft is easing into its owner role, likely to let regulators relax after the tumultuous acquisition process, before going hard on the Xbox marketing for future iterations.
If Call of Duty wasn't on PlayStation, do you think the +30 million annual players would just... stop? They haven't stopped in nearly 15 years, despite the marketing deal changing hands. In fact, they migrated from Xbox to PlayStation, following their favourite game. Without Call of Duty, PlayStation wouldn't survive in its current form - as Jim Ryan testified. (That's part of the reason for this GaaS push). COD is, and will continue to be, an absolutely core pillar for PlayStation. PlayStation, however, just so happens to be fans current platform of choice - a choice that's changed in the past, and may change again in the future.

I can't read all that, my eyes go blurry.
PS doesn't have CoD marketing and it increased in sales over MW2.
I've already said PS would take a hit if it didn't have big games like CoD, whatever the football game is and GTA. Those games would also take a hit without PS.

 

[ZehDon]

I can't read all that, my eyes go blurry....

Why did you bother replying to a post you didn't read?

 

[DForce]

No, multiple people are disagreeing because they don't like having their world view challenged. These are people surprised that COD's sales on Xbox are lower when it's being offered for "free" on Gamepass.
I never said that the top 20 are the "only games that matter":

Uh, go back to what you said.

And how many of those are among the most played PS5 games each month? Because that's what ultimately matters.

You believe what ultimately matters is if they're in the top most played games EACH month.

That's dumb. lol

There have been MANY successful games this generation and you won't find them in the top 20 for MONTHS. What matters is if they're making money.

 

[Mr Moose]

Why did you bother replying to a post you didn't read?

I read the first line, and bits of it. It's like a mini thicc_girls_are_teh_best post. My brain goes

I've read it all now, I think. And I partly agree with you, I've said it myself before about the GaaS shite, they need some winners there as a just in case. The original 3 year deal was shit.
But as I was saying, when the majority of your sales come from PS then if you miss out on PS it will affect both.

 

[onQ123]

Whose alt was awaken from its slumber?

I thought it was Mr Funsocks last time but it turns out this guy been here for years & just couldn't take it anymore lol

 

[m14]

Uh, go back to what you said.



You believe what ultimately matters is if they're in the top most played games EACH month.

That's dumb. lol

There have been MANY successful games this generation and you won't find them in the top 20 for MONTHS. What matters is if they're making money.

Sony are surely very happy that so few of their first party games are in the top 20 most played on their own platform. As much as posters such as yourself like to believe that Sony exclusives are the most important games ever, they are largely irrelevant compared to EAFA/2K/COD/GTA/Fortnite and the top 20 proves that.

 

[Mr Moose]

Sony are surely very happy that so few of their first party games are in the top 20 most played on their own platform. As much as posters such as yourself like to believe that Sony exclusives are the most important games ever, they are largely irrelevant compared to EAFA/2K/COD/GTA/Fortnite and the top 20 proves that.

Sony's exclusives aren't yearly franchises like some of those. And some of them sell 10+ even 20+ million. Keep trying, you'll get there eventually.

August 2024 Circana: Here are the best-selling games of the year so far

1. EA Sports College Football 25
2. Helldivers 2
3. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 (2023)
4. EA Sports MVP Bundle
5. Elden Ring
6. Dragon's Dogma 2
7. MLB The Show 24***
8. WWE 2K24**
9. Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth
10. Hogwarts Legacy
11. Tekken 8
12. Madden NFL 25
13. NBA 2K24**
14. Madden NFL 24
15. Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League
16. Minecraft****
17. Grand Theft Auto V**
18. EA Sports FC 24
19. Persona 3 Reload
20. Marvel's Spider-Man 2
Here's US ($ sales) from August.

 

[DForce]

Sony are surely very happy that so few of their first party games are in the top 20 most played on their own platform. As much as posters such as yourself like to believe that Sony exclusives are the most important games ever, they are largely irrelevant compared to EAFA/2K/COD/GTA/Fortnite and the top 20 proves that.

Based on your logic, Capcom is not happy because Resident Evil games are no longer in the top 20 of the most played games.

Elden Ring is no longer in the top 20 on any platform.

Hogwarts is no longer in the top 20 on any platform.


And how are their games largely irrelevant to games like NBA 2K when it only sells 10 million copies on MULTIPLE platforms and it's a game that's ONLY popular in the US?

You're bringing this ridiculous Twitter Xbox fanboy logic to this forum and it's not working. lol

 

[Mr Moose]

Based on your logic, Capcom is not happy because Resident Evil games are no longer in the top 20 of the most played games.

Elden Ring is no longer in the top 20 on any platform.

Hogwarts is no longer in the top 20 on any platform.


And how are their games largely irrelevant to games like NBA 2K when it only sells 10 million copies on MULTIPLE platforms and it's a game that's ONLY popular in the US?

You're bringing this ridiculous Twitter Xbox fanboy logic to this forum and it's not working. lol

He's trying to hard like his job depends on it. Wait a minute... Greenberg, is that you? M m14

 

[ZehDon]

... But as I was saying, when the majority of your sales come from PS then if you miss out on PS it will affect both.

Short terms, sure, but long term - the kind of time frame Jim Ryan was inferring? Not a chance. Games drive platforms, platforms don't drive games - as Xbox is learning. Call of Duty gamers have demonstrated they're not platform loyalists - they follow their game. There's a reason Jim Ryan said PlayStation would never recover if it lost Call of Duty, but no one said Call of Duty would be irrevocably harmed.

 

[Mr Moose]

Short terms, sure, but long term - the kind of time frame Jim Ryan was inferring? Not a chance. Games drive platforms, platforms don't drive games - as Xbox is learning. Call of Duty gamers have demonstrated they're not platform loyalists - they follow their game. There's a reason Jim Ryan said PlayStation would never recover if it lost Call of Duty, but no one said Call of Duty would be irrevocably harmed.

Not according to Phil Spencer and Starfield.
I guess we'll see if it ever happens.

 

[m14]

Sony's exclusives aren't yearly franchises like some of those. And some of them sell 10+ even 20+ million. Keep trying, you'll get there eventually.

It's bold to make this attempt at being patronising just a few posts after admitting a mere ten lines of text are too much for your brain to process.
I never disputed that some Sony games sell millions, they just aren't in anywhere near the same ballpark of relevance or value of the bigger third party franchises.

Based on your logic, Capcom is not happy because Resident Evil games are no longer in the top 20 of the most played games.

Elden Ring is no longer in the top 20 on any platform.

Hogwarts is no longer in the top 20 on any platform.


And how are their games largely irrelevant to games like NBA 2K when it only sells 10 million copies on MULTIPLE platforms and it's a game that's ONLY popular in the US?

You're bringing this ridiculous Twitter Xbox fanboy logic to this forum and it's not working. lol

You're really stuck on this top 20 comment, aren't you?
The makers of RE, Elden Ring and Hogwarts aren't attempting to sell consoles, unlike Sony.
Sony are chasing GAAS for a reason.

NBA 2K is a massive yearly franchise and makes a fortune through microtransactions.
Basketball is the second most popular team sport in the world and 2k has many players outside the US. So yes it more than slightly overshadows Sony's first party games. That's why currently two games from the NBA 2K franchise are in the PS5 top 20 most played. That's why Sony are currently offering PS5 and NBA 2K25 bundles.

As for the the "Twitter Xbox fanboy logic" comment- I guess it's uncomfortable for you and others to read posts that challenge your world view.

 

[Mr Moose]

It's bold to make this attempt at being patronising just a few posts after admitting a mere ten lines of text are too much for your brain to process.
I never disputed that some Sony games sell millions, they just aren't in anywhere near the same ballpark of relevance or value of the bigger third party franchises.

You're downplaying massive sales in some of those franchises. You're going to keep trying. You can do it, I believe in you.

 

[onQ123]

You think PlayStation would survive as a viable business without GTA/COD/EAFC?


I'm sorry if you found my history lesson upsetting. What in particular about my posts do you disagree with?

You're the one that needs the history lesson & guess what?

PS2 made GTA into what it is today , PS3 & Xbox 360 then PS4 made Call of Duty into what it is today, PlayStation is the life line for EA Sports as a whole .


Do you want to continue making a fool of yourself?

 

[m14]

You're the one that needs the history lesson & guess what?

PS2 made GTA into what it is today , PS3 & Xbox 360 then PS4 made Call of Duty into what it is today, PlayStation is the life line for EA Sports as a whole .


Do you want to continue making a fool of yourself?

Yeah I'm not sure the PS3 was equal to the 360 in driving the success of COD in that generation. Some history lesson there.

 

[onQ123]

Yeah I'm not sure the PS3 was equal to the 360 in driving the success of COD in that generation. Some history lesson there.

I'm pretty sure it sold more on PS3 , PS4 & PS5 than it did on Xbox 360 , Xbox One & Xbox Series.

 

[m14]

I'm pretty sure it sold more on PS3 , PS4 & PS5 than it did on Xbox 360 , Xbox One & Xbox Series.

You were referring to the seventh generation as if PS3 and Xbox 360 were equal drivers of COD sales. Try again.

 

[onQ123]

You were referring to the seventh generation as if PS3 and Xbox 360 were equal drivers of COD sales. Try again.

Was it 74% sold on Xbox 360?

 

[DForce]

You're really stuck on this top 20 comment, aren't you?
The makers of RE, Elden Ring and Hogwarts aren't attempting to sell consoles, unlike Sony.
Sony are chasing GAAS for a reason.

NBA 2K is a massive yearly franchise and makes a fortune through microtransactions.
Basketball is the second most popular team sport in the world and 2k has many players outside the US. So yes it more than slightly overshadows Sony's first party games. That's why currently two games from the NBA 2K franchise are in the PS5 top 20 most played. That's why Sony are currently offering PS5 and NBA 2K25 bundles.

As for the the "Twitter Xbox fanboy logic" comment- I guess it's uncomfortable for you and others to read posts that challenge your world view.

No. lol

NBA 2K and Madden are always in the top 20 in the US.
These games are not massive outside of the US. The same goes for College Football 25.

Do most PlayStation gamers care more about Spider-Man 2 and God of War Ragnarok than Madden, NBA 2K, and College Football?
NBA 2K23 was 19th in Europe while God of War Ragnarok was 18th, a game that was released in 2022.

As for the the "Twitter Xbox fanboy logic" comment- I guess it's uncomfortable for you and others to read posts that challenge your world view.

There's no "challenge."

 

[Shakka43]

It would make their console business non viable.


And nothing from Sony's track record suggests they won't have their lunch eaten once again by a more innovative company.

It sure has taken a while though.

 

[m14]

No. lol

NBA 2K and Madden are always in the top 20 in the US.
These games are not massive outside of the US. The same goes for College Football 25.

Do most PlayStation gamers care more about Spider-Man 2 and God of War Ragnarok than Madden, NBA 2K, and College Football?
NBA 2K23 was 19th in Europe while God of War Ragnarok was 18th, a game that was released in 2022.




There's no "challenge."

Well to be fair you're admitting that 2k was in the European top 20.
Madden and especially College Football wouldn't be factors outside the US but EAFC is a huge game in Europe. It is a very popular game even in the US now.