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Ubisoft seeks to replicate the success of Ghost of Tsushima in Japan with Assassin's Creed Shadows
Embearded
Member
I think you guys are arguing without good reason. Historical accuracy only matters if the developers are aiming for it and are marketing the game as an accurate one.
Having weapons that came later or having a black samurai doesn't really matter as long as they don't include a stupid "based on real events" screen in the beginning.
Having weapons that came later or having a black samurai doesn't really matter as long as they don't include a stupid "based on real events" screen in the beginning.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
My issue with Ghost isn’t even that, it’s how characters behave.
I give you example: In Sekiro when first face Genichiro and if you managed to beat him another Shinobi will cut you down and do you think Genichiro gives fuck about not winning “honourably“? Fuck no! He has a goal and he will do what takes to achieve it, heck his even willing give up his humanity to save his clan, honour has no room in winning a war.
Meanwhile in Ghost Jin warn his uncle that his running in to a trap but that idiotic uncle doesn’t care because his willing to get his men killed as long as he fights ”honourably”. That’s not fucking “honourable” that’s just being bad general which in real world would get you killed off by your superior.
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Pejo
Gold Member
Then how do you explain seppuku/harakiri, if honor wasn't historically a factor in Japanese culture. I'm not arguing against your point btw, I just think that the angle in Ghost is plausible. Stupid and could have been written better, but still plausible.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Honor is from victory not from getting your men killed and losing the war for sake of fighting ”fair”.
CartesianMan
Member
GoT get boring after a while. It' feels like Insomniac Game. Glossy AAA. It's ok at the begining and get repetitive soon.
Reminds me of Horizons. Also there is not depth in the open world.
Sory to say that but not sory. I hope Shadows to be better.
Reminds me of Horizons. Also there is not depth in the open world.
Sory to say that but not sory. I hope Shadows to be better.
Pejo
Gold Member
Sure, as an ideal. But war was very much fought with sacrifice and poor decisions to save face for generals/leaders. Hell look at the American Revolutionary war where the Brits lost because they would line up in straight lines in the middle of a field and die from people hiding in forests picking them off etc. It's not a made up concept. Again, I'm not saying it's honorable or a good idea or whatever, but it is plausible from a historical angle that his uncle would think that way.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Yes bad decision in tactics or disadvantage in battle but not actively knowing there is a trap but going in anyway because it’s “honourable“ way to fight, that just fucking stupid.
But in Ghost Khan is even more stupid, he captures Jin, his biggest threat and even kill his friend front him but instead of kill him as well, he tries convince him to join and then leaves him absolutely unharmed so his allies can rescue him…..WHY? And he brags about how studied Japanese culture and he knows how they think.
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Pejo
Gold Member
Yea, that part is extremely poor "James Bond" tier writing, I agree. And I'm not saying what they did was good or whatever, just that it was plausible enough to not cause a major rift in the plot for me.
I think you and I had more of a discussion about these plot points tonight than anyone at Sucker Punch did lol.
Hypnotoad
Member
I predict scores in the 8 to 9 range for Shadows since they have money bags going to Sweet baby and other affiliated protection rackets. "Gaming journalists" meanwhile will add points to display their ideological purity and keep their "exclusive" access to Ubisoft.
Tams
Member
If we're going to be really pedantic, the whole Mongol invasion is a wash in Japanese history.
If that storm hadn't happened, Japan would have been invaded very easily. The Japanese forces sent to defend Kyuushu were a sad, ragtag group - and that's the best Japan could offer at the time.
Come On Tars
Member
Masterofchapter
Banned
Lol ghost plays like a game from ps2 with better graphics nothing really great about it even ac 3 more revolutionary than ghost that's a PS3 title
ChuckeRearmed
Member
They can probably sell the game where Yasuke teaches japanese fire and creates the foundation of the original rice kingdoms 
Also if they add more cringy dialogues to the game, it will probably sell more.
Also if they add more cringy dialogues to the game, it will probably sell more.
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SJRB
Gold Member
And yet it was a huge success. Now why was that?
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Were they not?
Were then Samurai not around during the Gempei Wars in the 12th century? Is Minamoto no Yoshitsune (born around 1159) not one of the most famous Samurai in history?
To be fair, I don't have many books on Japanese history, but I do have this one that is pretty clear Samurai existed in the 1100s. The book is even titled Samurai Civil War. Pretty clear, unless you know more than a scholar of Japanese history, in which case I'd love to hear it.
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Masterofchapter
Banned
Sony fanboys overhyped it, even turd get to shine in fanboys mentality right
Masterofchapter
Banned
Were they not?
Were then Samurai not around during the Gempei Wars in the 12th century? Is Minamoto no Yoshitsune (born around 1159) not one of the most famous Samurai in history?
To be fair, I don't have many books on Japanese history, but I do have this one that is pretty clear Samurai existed in the 1100s. The book is even titled Samurai Civil War. Pretty clear, unless you know more than a scholar of Japanese history, in which case I'd love to hear it.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
A Reddit post from a random user. Really?
Anyway, I didn't say GoT was historically accurate, or try and claim it would be more historically accurate than AoC.
I only addressed your claim that Samurai did not exist in the 13th century.
midnightAI
Member
It's nice to want things
Angry_Megalodon
Banned
custardbun01
Member
I loved Ghost, it nailed the feeling and the vibe, but yeah it’s hardly historically accurate for the period.
Ubi games make great worlds to look at, and expect it to be no exception, but recent AC games are also all let down but their crappy combat and stiff mechanics. I’m not sure I can bring myself to play another one after battling to enjoy Valhalla and ultimately abandoning it.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
They probably will come close. These games sell, and this one's already selling a lot.
captainnapalm
Member
I really don't get the Ghost of Tsushima thing. As a PC gamer, I've found a lot of the Sony games overrated but Tsushima takes the cake. Just a typical snooze fest open-world game. And the setting was really dull I found. Other than the nice combat, I'd take most AC games over it. Pre-woke Ubisoft at least.
yurinka
Member
You are lying, he or Ubisoft never said that they hope to replicate GoT sales in Japan.
The gamesindustry.biz interviewer, not the producer, said that western games normally don't sell a lot in Japan, but GoT sales in Japan are an indicator of what it's possible to sell there for a western dev.
What the producer said is that since this AC game is set in Japan they hope to sell more than than with the previous AC games.
As I remember the best selling AC game worldwide is Vallhalla (counting also digital). It would be interesting to see its sales in Japan.
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Woopah
Member
In terms of physical sales in Japan, Vahalla sold 61,345 on PS4.
The most popular games there were AC II and AC III, which both did around 150,000 physical between PS3 and 360.
As you say, Western games can do well in Japan. Aside from GoT, we saw GTA5, Minecraft, Apex Legends and Luigi’s Mansion 2/3 doing very well there.
Last year, Spiderman 2 and Hogwarts Legacy were in the top 3 PS5 games physically in Japan.
Sleepwalker
Member
Putonahappyface
Gold Member
Not a chance in hell it'll do at well as Ghost of Tsushima, especially with a certain consultant involved.
yurinka
Member
Ok thanks.
Well, we should add there the digitial copies (worldwide 80% of the total this past quarter in PS, and should be lower in Japan and for AC Vallhalla because the percentage keeps growing over time) and the PS5 copies. I don't think that in total, when adding digital and PS5 (plus maybe PC and Xbox copies), AC Valhalla achieved 150K in Japan but may be somewhere close, above 120K-130K.
Yes, there are some rare cases but it's true that Japan is a weird market where most top games are local.
Regarding Luigi's Mansion, I bet 99% of its players doesn't know the country of its lead dev team.
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Woopah
Member
PS5 version sold 4,227 physical copies first week so wouldn't have made much difference, but yes the digital PS4 copoed and PC will have added a few 10,000s more. I agree with your estimate
People probably don't know about Luigi's Mansion, but I doubt it would change their decision to purchase. They wouldn't care about the nationality of the devs, just like they don't care about it for Fortnite or Minecraft.
It's more about the product itself than who makes it.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
If I wanted to advocate for video games being art, GTA would be very far down the list of games I’d use.
yurinka
Member
Both are art and products, like movies or books.
The only difference there is that you hate Ubisoft and like GTA.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Overhyped lol. For me it ranks among the best games they’ve ever made. It’s extremely well put together.
geary
Member
Now tell us how Origins sold in Egypt, compared with Odyssey or Valhalla, how Odyssey sold in Greece compared with Origins or Valhalla and how Valhalla sold in northern Europe/UK compared with Odyssey and Origins.
Woopah
Member
We don't have charts for Greece and Egypt and the UK charts doesn't always give us numbers .
Valhalla was the 7th best selling UK game in the UK (usual caveats apply) in 2020. Origins ranked 4th in 2017 and sold 679,965
For Odyssey we only have physical numbers, but it ranked 14th in 2018 and sold 305,937.
Hope this helps.
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ThatPolishGuy
Member
Hmm.
I enjoyed GoT for what it was. And I never thought it was historically accurate. The game had it's pros and cons- some stuff was getting repitive. Anyways the Kurosawa mode indicated that it's kind of inspired by movies. So it did have that vibe. DLC felt pretty fresh to me, and I thought the story was better than in main game.
AC: Shadows on the other hand I read the first article in which someone from Ubi claimed we will experience literally the history of Japan. Not like towns, some of historical events or historical characters. And now I see people talking like no one at Ubi has said that... And even Ubi is dodgy and doing a 180 on this. For me it's kind of funny.
That's basically what's wrong with AC: Shadows. Ubi has started to market it like it's literally based on a written history book. That and only that.
And since we're talking about taking liberty's with historical accuracy, nice research by Ubi when they even mix seasons in Japan, could be an error in Shadows trailer only, but I guess we will find out soon enough and it didn't inspire much confidence on japanese side of internet from what I basically scrolled through or watched some japanese vids. Some japanese were even praising Tsushima, while being negative about Shadows. They even brought back this article and mixing of seasons. Not Yasuke, not Black Samurai, not taking liberty's with weapons or bombs. This plus a bunch of other stuff. Some were mad they didn't get japanese male character, like in previous entries of the series. Which seems like a valid argument.
For me it's not day one. It's wait and see the reviews first. I'm just not convinced that AC: Shadows will be my cup of tea - since they started doing a it marketing with experience history of Japan as it was, to it's fiction but we have characters which are based on history. And that rap music bits, meh - Tsushima had amazing music and I dig Rise of The Ronin ost too but something seems off about this game on a bunch of levels. Maybe I will grab it at huge discount or extra cheap second hand... It all depends on reviews. Kunoichi vertical movement seemed pretty cool though.
BTW. I'm playing Rise of The Ronin right now and I absolutely enjoy combat, no climbing on huge towers to uncover the map, game is really responsive, even with totem raising and map clearence. Feels like a breath of fresh air from AC formula.
Surely some stuff sure gets repitive, like in GoT. And I don't think it's 100% historically accurate either... I mean English man flying with some kind of jet boots...
Anyways it fun, fresh, responsive - sometimes Rise of The Ronin reminds me a bit of The Witcher 3 in things like flames/lighting, wind, texture work, engine feel- anyways I didn't finished it yet and it got kind of confusing for me at the end so it has some cons too, not only pros I mean I once sided with shogunate and got a it's a definitive end talks from anti-shogunate characters while at war, and the next time I was in their base talking and doing anti-shogunate quests for them and they were only "like loook whoo it is", lol. It felt a bit dumb and confusing . But I poured like 100h and I'm at the end of the story I think. And I think its enjoyable for what it is and feels like devs did the game they wanted to do and it just clicks really well even if they are some things that get repitive or some performance issues.
And I don't think I will get this with AC: Shadows but I hope to be proven wrong but I have my doubts that this game will be unimmersive instead.
I enjoyed GoT for what it was. And I never thought it was historically accurate. The game had it's pros and cons- some stuff was getting repitive. Anyways the Kurosawa mode indicated that it's kind of inspired by movies. So it did have that vibe. DLC felt pretty fresh to me, and I thought the story was better than in main game.
AC: Shadows on the other hand I read the first article in which someone from Ubi claimed we will experience literally the history of Japan. Not like towns, some of historical events or historical characters. And now I see people talking like no one at Ubi has said that... And even Ubi is dodgy and doing a 180 on this. For me it's kind of funny.
That's basically what's wrong with AC: Shadows. Ubi has started to market it like it's literally based on a written history book. That and only that.
And since we're talking about taking liberty's with historical accuracy, nice research by Ubi when they even mix seasons in Japan, could be an error in Shadows trailer only, but I guess we will find out soon enough and it didn't inspire much confidence on japanese side of internet from what I basically scrolled through or watched some japanese vids. Some japanese were even praising Tsushima, while being negative about Shadows. They even brought back this article and mixing of seasons. Not Yasuke, not Black Samurai, not taking liberty's with weapons or bombs. This plus a bunch of other stuff. Some were mad they didn't get japanese male character, like in previous entries of the series. Which seems like a valid argument.
For me it's not day one. It's wait and see the reviews first. I'm just not convinced that AC: Shadows will be my cup of tea - since they started doing a it marketing with experience history of Japan as it was, to it's fiction but we have characters which are based on history. And that rap music bits, meh - Tsushima had amazing music and I dig Rise of The Ronin ost too but something seems off about this game on a bunch of levels. Maybe I will grab it at huge discount or extra cheap second hand... It all depends on reviews. Kunoichi vertical movement seemed pretty cool though.
BTW. I'm playing Rise of The Ronin right now and I absolutely enjoy combat, no climbing on huge towers to uncover the map, game is really responsive, even with totem raising and map clearence. Feels like a breath of fresh air from AC formula.
Surely some stuff sure gets repitive, like in GoT. And I don't think it's 100% historically accurate either... I mean English man flying with some kind of jet boots...
Anyways it fun, fresh, responsive - sometimes Rise of The Ronin reminds me a bit of The Witcher 3 in things like flames/lighting, wind, texture work, engine feel- anyways I didn't finished it yet and it got kind of confusing for me at the end so it has some cons too, not only pros I mean I once sided with shogunate and got a it's a definitive end talks from anti-shogunate characters while at war, and the next time I was in their base talking and doing anti-shogunate quests for them and they were only "like loook whoo it is", lol. It felt a bit dumb and confusing . But I poured like 100h and I'm at the end of the story I think. And I think its enjoyable for what it is and feels like devs did the game they wanted to do and it just clicks really well even if they are some things that get repitive or some performance issues.
And I don't think I will get this with AC: Shadows but I hope to be proven wrong but I have my doubts that this game will be unimmersive instead.
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Ubisoft: Spends the past few months gaslighting Japanese gamers after releasing a trailer to their new game that shits on Japanese culture; which released to almost unanimous derision by the Japanese gamer base.
The same Ubisoft: "We're being respectful to Japanese history and culture and we want the Japanese player to look at our shitty game filled with modern western DEI politics and think "yes, this is my history!!"
These guys are fucking delusional.
The same Ubisoft: "We're being respectful to Japanese history and culture and we want the Japanese player to look at our shitty game filled with modern western DEI politics and think "yes, this is my history!!"
These guys are fucking delusional.
MatrixReloaded101
Member
This game should sell more than GoT because it’s a bigger IP plus it’s on more platforms day one. But the quality has got to be there, GoT is actually a good game and that’s why it was successful.
