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[spindoctor]

Everything you wrote here makes sense and would explain why people voted him in. But I have a question about what happened in Gujarat. When you've got a former Parliament official and others repeatedly calling the mayor, police chief, and opposition members of the state government, for a period of over 5hrs, and not one person shows up to help them; that makes it sound like government collusion. Throw in multiple reports of the mobs using voter lists and detailed hand outs of which business belong to their intended targets, and it sounds like some one up high was providing information and also insuring that police stayed out of the way.

The New PM; how high up the power ladder was he in Gujarat at the time?

He was the chief minister of Gujarat at the time.

The Supreme Court of India has absolved Modi so the matter is legally closed now. His role in the whole thing now lies in the grey area between guilt and responsibility. A lot of what you say actually did happen and I saw it with my own eyes (I live in Gujarat). The part about having lists is especially true. Mobs of people would roam around, vandalize and burn Muslim owned stores but the store owned by the Hindu right next door would be left untouched. They had access to detailed records only available to the government. It's likely that some mid level bureaucrats were handing them out. No one will ever know whether or not they did it because they were ordered to. The same goes for the police. They didn't do enough to stop the violence. Again, no one will know whether they were ordered to do so or whether they were afraid or whether they believed it was just. However, the one thing that I do believe to be true is that Modi failed in his duty to maintain law and order in the state. Thousands of people died and many more had their lives ruined. For this reason alone I do not believe he deserved to be rewarded with the highest post in the country. That said, hundreds of millions of people voted and gave him the largest majority India has seen in 30 years. That's how democracy works. He replaces a Prime Minister who stood by mute as his ministers stole billions upon billions of dollars from the exchequer. A change from a government that was a coalition of so many small parties that an inordinate amount of time was spent pacifying those partners instead of actually governing, which has resulted in alarming inflation and general reduced economic growth across all metrics. The people of the country severely punished the outgoing government for their misrule and they truly believe that Modi can right the ship.

The article by the way is mostly horseshit. It cherry picks examples of really dark times in Indian history as if that is how life here is all the time, or as if the BJP is some fanatic right wing religious political party. This is not true. The party has indeed extracted political benefit by taking advantage of religion in the past, but they have spent most of the last 20 years trying to distance themselves from this notion that their identity is tied to religion. At this point I would call them right of center. India does not suddenly become a hostile place for religious minorities just because the BJP has come to power.

 

[xenist]

Wut?

I'm saying that trying to learn about Modi should have occurred before the elections. India isn't some irrelevant country. Who leads it for the coming years should have been a concern already. Instead western media have left these election fly in under the radar only to start with the stories after they were over.

 

[kurisu_1974]

The fact that people are reacting to Modi only after he got elected is ridiculous. It's fucking India not some two bit banana republic.

As someone who has to deal with Indian "techies" on a daily basis, and having a wife that worked there, that made me smile.

 

[bearythebear]

Jesus Christ. The OP is hyperbolic as fuck. I hope that it isn't the only source you guys trust. India has been on an economic slump. The pervious government was super corrupt.

People have voted for him because he is probable one of the least corrupt politicians in India and a strong leader. Indians want change, and he's the best person to deliver that. I dunno if things will get better, but at least things will change.

 

[schuey7]

Well that's a horribly biased article and I think that the work that Mr. Modi will do in the future is the only way in which he can prove that Indians have made the right choice in electing him.
We Indians have voted for him because we are tired of corrupt politicians stealing billions of dollars and the stalled economy and job situation.I personally feel that Muslims are also going to prosper under his governance .

 

[airmangataosenai]

In general people only care about these things briefly if there's widespread violence, and they just treat third world nations as an "Other" where everything is crazy anyway. As discussed in my other thread on Thailand, that country is now a day or two away from a fascist regime being appointed through a military coup to re-write the constitution to essentially null all future election results and no one seems interested in the story in the slightest.

 

[ebullientprism]

Thats a totally unbiased article. No sir, no prejudice there at all.

LOL.

 

[nOoblet16]

The OP is inaccurate and biased in many ways and also paints an excessively grim picture, something that isn't there.
You should have seen the options Indians had apart from him, one was an anarchist who cannot for the life of him figure out how administration is suppose to work and constantly turns back on people who put their trust on him and the other is an idiot who can't even deliver a speech without making him look like a fool, while Modi on the other hand is a proven politicians with results. Not hard to see why he won.

Just because he is from a party with religious base does not mean it's bad, the Indian National Congress (centre left) were in power for 10 years and they did fuck all and pretty much stagnated the economy that was built up in the preceding years under the rule of this Hindu Party. The bit about Hitler is inaccurate as well as that's not his own stance, it is common in India to praise Hitler's leadership (not Holocast) because of his dislike for Britain (India was a British colony back then). His state became one of the richest state in the country under his leadership, and India at the moment desperately needs someone who understands and can improve the economy. In all honesty, India needed a man like him considering how much of a mess the previous government made. Also it should be noted that even though the party has hindu religious base, they have their own Muslim wing within the party.

I will keep saying this again and again, just because a government is right wing and has some attachments to religious groups does not automatically mean it's bad, India is still a democracy and the people there still have their fundamental rights, religion will never overrule the constitution in India.

It's not as clear cut as the OP tries to make it. The only reason Hitler was widely revered amongst nationalist organizations back then was precisely because he was against the British, the very people who had their boots on the necks of Indians at that time. So to any person wanting independence and indian nationalism it was a sort of enemy of my enemy is my friend. Not that it's right.

As for his election, it has less to do with entering a sinister period and more to do with the fact economic growth has faltered. Inflation is at massive levels, and this man helped turn his state into the richest in the country and is a shrewd businessman. The Congress party is increasingly looked at as corrupt, inefficient, and doesn't aspire to the same things, instead choosing to pander to minorities or provide subsidies that don't promote economic growth.

Modi may be extremely nationalistic but he's also very smart. The son of a tea stall worker, and one who sold tea himself doesn't become Prime Minister of the world's largest democracy without being a smart politician. He's aligned himself with the ruling party of Punjab in the North, gotten a lot of influential celebrities to run for him, and has utilized social media and digital outreach better than anyone.

To be honest, India needed a man like this. With the sheer number of seats and votes, he can pass most anything he wants. Of course some will complain about the tyranny of the majority, but India had turned into a bureaucratic nightmare where nothing would get done, budgets would be passed and billions siphoned off due to corruption. When you have a country with 26 official languages and the birthplace of 4 of the world's major religions, you need a strong centralized vision. Let's see how he operates.

This is every bit right.

 

[Window]

Seems like more of an article about what a disaster India (economically and culturally) is and has been since independence with some info about how terrible RSS/BJP are (which is all true) and why Modi is terrible by association and because of his own actions. Interesting article to get acquainted with must know facts about the new Indian PM.

As someone who has to deal with Indian "techies" on a daily basis, and having a wife that worked there, that made me smile.

What are Indian "techies" and how are they different than other techies?

His state became one of the richest state in the country under his leadership, and India at the moment desperately needs someone who understands and can improve the economy.

Ignoring the fact that this is being presented as a favourable comparison, to be quite honest I'm not really sure what Modi's economic policy is. His 'strong autocratic leader' philosophy kinda seems at odds to me with his campaign message of 'minimum government maximum governance'. I guess it is somewhat similar to the Pinochet ruled Chile like the author states, I don't know.

 

[Mgoblue201]

The article seems more like an anti-capitalist rant with the Indian election as its theme.

Pankaj Mishra is well-known for his attacks against "consumer capitalism" and globalization. Some of his writing is good, but then again he has the habit of making weird non-sequiturs, such as his subtle conflation between economic liberalization and state sanctioned violence. His intentions aren't necessarily wrong to point out the problems with the entire narrative of India's growth story. From what I understand, however, Modi's election was driven primarily by the newly enfranchised class of voters who favor pragmatism and economic growth over demagoguery and corruption - not just educated, middle class voters, but also poor voters who want a better life. It is those people whom Modi will mostly be responsible toward. Mollifying the hardcore Hindu nationalists (to which Modi has less of an attachment than Mishra suggests) at the expense of economic and institutional reform would be a betrayal of his campaign promises and a misuse of political capital. Yes, India still contains a lot of poverty, repression, inequality, and injustice, but Mishra takes too dim of a view on the progress that's been made. By most measures India is better off than it was 30 years ago in my opinion.

 

[kurisu_1974]

What are Indian "techies" and how are they different than other techies?

You can go be the passive aggressive defence force somewhere else. I'm sure most people know about outsourcing and how it affects quality except apparantly you.

 

[pappe]

This article portrays BJP as some sort Hindu supremist party and some shit but people who are aware and are bothered to read up even a little bit should research the Operation Blue Star and the attack at the Golden Temple and the Sikh riots which was conducted under the rule of Congress.

Anyways, Modi has been given the clean chit by the Supreme court so we can do nothing but give him a benefit of doubt and close the matter.

What this article does not show is how Modi has transformed Gujarat into one of the richest stated in India and totally turned around the development of that state. The biggest proof is how every MNC look forward to have their manufacturing plant or base in Gujarat. This track record is one of the reasons why people from the urban areas have voted for Modi. (going by what the people I interact with on a regular basis think.)

Congress on the other hand have done nothing but stall the development of the country for the past 5 yrs. The first 5 yrs were brilliant amazing growth and development since their second term has started there has been hardly any growth, the inflation levels have reached beyond any sensible levels and not to mention the scams!!

Oh god the scams!!! Unbelievable amount of money has been pulled by the ruling party in the past 5 yrs.

Robert Vadra the son in law of Sonia Gandhi the leader of Congress. His net worth was 1lakh 10 years ago. Now its over 300 crores!!! How? coal scam, adarsh scam, BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS of our hard earned money paid in taxes has been pocketed by these fucking corrupt bastards.

There is tremendous angst against the Congress party among the masses. THAT is the reason why Congress has been told to fuck off by the people.

I wont even go into how stupid and clueless their PM candidate was.

 

[archnemesis]

Out of curiosity, what is a lahk and a crore?

 

[whatsinaname]

You can go be the passive aggressive defence force somewhere else. I'm sure most people know about outsourcing and how it affects quality except apparantly you.

He isn't being passive aggressive. He is calling you out (and so am I) for being condescending to and stereotyping a large part of an entire country's workforce. And also for basically saying that you think India is a two bit banana republic.

Out of curiosity, what is a lahk and a crore?

lakh = 100,000
crore = 10,000,000

 

[leadbelly]

It's not as clear cut as the OP tries to make it. The only reason Hitler was widely revered amongst nationalist organizations back then was precisely because he was against the British, the very people who had their boots on the necks of Indians at that time. So to any person wanting independence and indian nationalism it was a sort of enemy of my enemy is my friend. Not that it's right.

Erm, you're missing the part where the founder referred to the purging of the Jews as "race pride at its highest". The Jews here being compared to Muslims.

 

[gutter_trash]

India got nukes. Pakistan got nukes.

what me worry?

 

[diaspora]

India got nukes. Pakistan got nukes.

what me worry?

The Cold War has been going on for decades, I'd be more concerned about Pakistan's current levels of degradation.

 

[MisterFalcon]

India got nukes. Pakistan got nukes.

what me worry?

An attack by Pakistani terrorists (totally not organized by ISI, really !) on the Indian parliament, the Mumbai attacks (again, not ISI at all !) or a minor border war did not result in nucear missiles flying.

 

[Stannis Baratheon]

Saw this on John Oliver. Crazy, but nothing new for India.

 

[Souldestroyer Reborn]

Hopefully he brings Pakistan into line.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

Hopefully he brings Pakistan into line.

Yes, he's going to bring a nuclear-armed country into line. Good luck with that.

 

[crazy monkey]

India got nukes. Pakistan got nukes.

what me worry?

they will kill each other. If you are not there why are you worried? They won't by the way.

 

[FZZ]

Lol at the responses about Pakistan in this thread.

Also Pakistan =/= ISI. Even though it's their intelligence agency, ISI operates on their own and does whatever the fuck they want. The government can't even get a hold on them because they've become their own entity.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Why is everyone electing nationalistic neo-liberals all of a sudden

Didn't all the fascist regimes of the early 20th century came about because of financial turmoil?

I've heard someone say that the tendency for voters is to be very democratic in times of prosperity, life is good, people are less stressed.

But in times of financial crisis and such people become more conservative. resources are sparse, life is tougher, its harder for people to make their own. the people become much more harsh on immigrants, welfare for those poorer than themselves and so on. It seems to be the case for Golden Dawn in Greece at least.(in contrast to this financial crisis)

 

[Esch]

Wow, Mishra went all the way here. I guess all we can do is wait and see if Modi really is the Hindu Hitler or not.

 

[gutter_trash]

Honestly, I might live in Europe, we might have those fascist golden dawn idiots in Greece, but I didn't really give a damn. Up until now. This shit is getting global.

establishment parties tend to eventually become currupt. Most European countries change turns between a Socialist party with a Center-Right party over and over again. Both parties being part of the establishment get their mits dirty into corruption.

mix that with economic instability, unemployment with nationalism then you got people laying blame on everyone else, the usual ruling parties, immigrants, banks, foreigner power.

I personally believe that ALL political parties end up slightly corrupt over time.

All these people who vote for ''NEW'' parties that never had power claiming that they are pure are in for a shock when those ''NEW'' parties end up doing the exact same thing as establishment parties.

No matter if it's far left or far right.

 

[RustyNails]

Wow, Mishra went all the way here. I guess all we can do is wait and see if Modi really is the Hindu Hitler or not.

He is probably not Hitler. He is under extra scrutiny over treatment of minorities both from the press and western countries. Any slight against the minorities will be extrapolated 10 times as a criticism of his government. I think he will probably bend over backwards to repair his image with minorities, but we'll see.

 

[Esch]

He is probably not Hitler. He is under extra scrutiny over treatment of minorities both from the press and western countries. Any slight against the minorities will be extrapolated 10 times as a criticism of his government. I think he will probably bend over backwards to repair his image with minorities, but we'll see.

It was an intentional exaggeration. It's definitely a wait and see situation.

By the way, we should really get around to making an international brown/desi-gaf soon.

 

[RustyNails]

By the way, we should really get around to making an international brown/desi-gaf soon.

There is one already Bollywood / Desi Dhaba |OT| Place for dreamers and dream merchants

Not much activity as of late and its mostly bollywood centric.

 

[Esch]

There is one already Bollywood / Desi Dhaba |OT| Place for dreamers and dream merchants

Not much activity as of late and its mostly bollywood centric.

Hmmmm, i'll subscribe but it's kind of a shame it's so filmi centric since I don't watch too many movies

 

[fallagin]

Sunday on HBO's Last Week Tonight, John Oliver interviewed CNN's Fareed Zakaria (an Indian-American Muslim whose father was an Islamic scholar) about the election results and Modi:

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO): Fareed Zakaria Interview Pt. 1

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO): Fareed Zakaria Interview Pt. 2


The BJP's alliance increased its percentage of the Muslim vote by 7% (from 13% to 20%) under Modi:

(Indian election results are here)

So alot of it seems to be that people just wanted someone new? Maybe alot of people just didn't realize where exactly his politics were.

 

[artist]

Eh, a lot of people conveniently trying to sweep the Gujarat riots under the rug - oh the SC has cleared him, we have no choice!

So alot of it seems to be that people just wanted someone new? Maybe alot of people just didn't realize where exactly his politics were.

Yes, they could have put up a donkey in Modi's place and it would have won against Rahul Gandhi.

 

[iamcool388]

I had made a thread on the Election and it did not receive too much of a response. However, the posts that came were of good quality and knowledge, so I am glad that at least a few people are interested in the workings of the largest democracy in the world.

As for the OP, it is hyprbole of the highest order. I dont expect Modi to bend over backwards to appease any minority, and I am extraordinarily happy about it. I'm tired of political parties giving sops, benefits, subsidies and quotas to any and all minorities just to garner their votes. Such vote bank politics only divide the population into groups instead of every person just being an Indian citizen.

Modi has been elected mostly because he is considered a good leader who can turn around the economic fortunes of India. The scale of corruption under the previous government is beyond comprehension. Growth stalled, inflation skyrocketed, unemployment jumped. On the other hand, Gujarat has grown very well in the last dozen years, and thus the contrast was as stark as can be. People forget the power of Word of Mouth advertising. A lot of laborers from other states go to Gujarat to work (as work is more plentiful there than in most other states) and they come back with good stories and pleasant experiences about Gujarat. That definitely added to his votes amongst the working, laborer class.

More eloquent people than me have said it better in this thread, but to reiterate... Calm down world, we did not just elect a Hitler. Jesus fucking Christ.

Eh, a lot of people conveniently trying to sweep the Gujarat riots under the rug - oh the SC has cleared him, we have no choice!

Yes, they could have put up a donkey in Modi's place and it would have won against Rahul Gandhi.

What should we do? Disband the Supreme Court because they dont know their jobs? Disregard their decisions because we do not agree with it?

Its not that people want to sweep the riots under the rug, its just that people have moved on. Since 2001-2, there have not been any communal riots in Gujarat. Thats good enough for most of the country. We are willing to give Modi a chance, if he squanders it, he will be thrown out... just like the present government.

As for putting up a donkey, Arvind Kejriwal was fighting the elections as well... He won 4 seats out of 543. give credit where credit is due.

 

[Mung]

Yes, they could have put up a donkey in Modi's place and it would have won against Rahul Gandhi.

Absolute rubbish, just like that Guardian article. Modi won this election 100%. They believe that he can sort out the huge problems with the economy, corruption etc. Modi wave and all that. I don't dislike Gandhi. If anything, the previous unelectable PM and his awful 'leadership' was to blame for the loss (how many outside asia even know the name of the previous PM?). Singh could not even win a parliamentary seat. Shocking that they installed him as PM.

Anyway, Modi will do a lot of good for India. He can restore the economy and make the nation strong.

The west is fear mongering as usual. That response is purely due to their fear of Modi as a strong pro-indian leader.

 

[nitewulf]

Modi has replaced Mahatma Gandhi, the icon of non-violence, with Vivekananda, the 19th-century Hindu revivalist who was obsessed with making Indians a "manly" nation.

That is a very inadequate and awful description of Vivekananda, who was a great man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivekananda

 

[xenist]

I get and appreciate people with a closer viewpoint to this calling out possible bullshit and providing more details. However, they should also know that this type of scrutiny comes with the territory of playing a world power. You want the importance, you also get the attention. That's the way it goes.

 

[Seanspeed]

At this point, I give up. People of India elected him into office. Maybe there's more to it than we know. Maybe he is a great leader, or maybe he's a scumbag. The fact that he was able to win support blows my mind. Hey, if this shit is all you need to win support, then maybe he's the Prime Minster India deserves and and not the Prime Minister they need.

Maybe the people of India as a whole aren't any better and this sort of thing is relatively common because his beliefs aren't actually considered that 'extreme' in these parts of the world?

Democracy is only as good as the constituents who partake in it.

 

[Seanspeed]

Anyway, Modi will do a lot of good for India. He can restore the economy and make the nation strong.

A lot of people use the same argument for supporting the Golden Dawn in Greece.

I admit, I'm quite ignorant of all this though, so I'm not going to come to any conclusions. Just that extremist beliefs, IF they are there, shouldn't be overlooked just because you think he can help the economy.

 

[gutter_trash]

give this new party 1 year and half and they will be equally involved in corruption and/or become hyper partisan with partisan nominations.

 

[Mung]

A lot of people use the same argument for supporting the Golden Dawn in Greece.

I admit, I'm quite ignorant of all this though, so I'm not going to come to any conclusions. Just that extremist beliefs, IF they are there, shouldn't be overlooked just because you think he can help the economy.

Ok, so we are comparing Modi to fascists and nazis now. Please tell me about these extremist beliefs also. And are they as extreme as the views of the Saudi, Qatari, Bahraini leadership etc. (ie. the West's closest friends?). The 'extremist' and 'minoritism' cards are only applied to threats to the west's hegemony. Currently the west are supporting extremists for example in syria as well.

But I do agree about your comment on the leaders reflecting the people who voted them in. That's why my opinion of the US will always be tainted by the war criminal Bush.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Nawaz Sharif's party PML-N is not islamist.

How is the "Pakistan Muslim League" anything but Islamist?

 

[cametall]

I had no idea Billy Bob Thornton was India's PM. He's really good in Fargo.

 

[RustyNails]

How is the "Pakistan Muslim League" anything but Islamist?

Just like "People's Democratic Republic of North Korea" is neither democratic nor republic. All India Muslim League is as old as Indian National Congress and was established well before the independence and partition, PML is Nawaz Sharif's formation of the original AIML. Here is PML-N's election manifesto. Nothing in there talks about religion and politics. J-I (Jamaat E Islami), now there's an Islamist party.

 

[Jeels]

How is the "Pakistan Muslim League" anything but Islamist?

Rusty explained it well, but really? Come on man. Does the tea party represent the interests of people who consume tea?

"Oh it has Muslim in the name, it must be radical."

 

[benjipwns]

How is the "Pakistan Muslim League" anything but Islamist?

Party names are more brands than accurate descriptors of what they contain within.

 

[King Mac of Furry Frog]

Too lazy to read, going to watch the baseball game while eating hotdogs and drinking Budweiser instead.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Just like "People's Democratic Republic of North Korea" is neither democratic nor republic. All India Muslim League is as old as Indian National Congress and was established well before the independence and partition, PML is Nawaz Sharif's formation of the original AIML. Here is PML-N's election manifesto. Nothing in there talks about religion and politics. J-I (Jamaat E Islami), now there's an Islamist party.

That's their economic platform. You can tell from the way they govern that they're an Islamic party. All their laws with regards to crime/morality are influenced by Islam. They will support publicly-funded Islamic education, death penalty for blasphemy, terrible record on women's rights and so on.

Party names are more brands than accurate descriptors of what they contain within.

It is pretty accurate in this case. They are the right wing in Pakistani politics, an already deeply religious country where religion and politics are expected to mix. And the PML is worst of the major parties in that regard.

 

[kurisu_1974]

Just like "People's Democratic Republic of North Korea" is neither democratic nor republic. All India Muslim League is as old as Indian National Congress and was established well before the independence and partition, PML is Nawaz Sharif's formation of the original AIML. Here is PML-N's election manifesto. Nothing in there talks about religion and politics. J-I (Jamaat E Islami), now there's an Islamist party.

Does this even make sense since there is no separation of church and state in Pakistan? Isn't it very difficult to separate religious Islam from "Islamist politics" in reality, wether they talk about it specifically or not?

 

[xenist]

How is the "Pakistan Muslim League" anything but Islamist?

So I guess the CDU (Christian Democrats) in Germany are religious extremists too?

 

[Gadfly]

So I guess the CDU (Christian Democrats) in Germany are religious extremists too?

came to say the same thing.

To all our Indian gaffers, I understand your frustration but first I think you are mistaken that west, in particular that part of the west you accuse of not liking your new leader because they see their homogeny being threatened, doesn't like this guy. On the contrary, you will see a lot more Republican liking him than "liberal Democrats".

Second, it is not about the person. Every time I saw a politician came in and advocated honesty and at the same time presented him/herself as a no-bullshit man, behind him lined up a lot of corrupt people with their hands in big military contracts.

And some of you may not notice it but you talk about "minorities" exactly the same way racist Republicans here talk about blacks.

And "strong nation", "good for country" ? Really? These are exactly the same terms used by ultra-right fascist and racist everywhere (not claiming you are one).

Now granted people apparently didn't have much choice and when extremists come to power, they have to moderate their stance some. So I hope we will not see a round of discriminatory policies against minorities in the pretext of "getting rid of affirmative action" policies. Should we see a reversal of recent attempts to change the Indians attitudes toward rape and a return to "it's the woman's fault"?

But I have one question. Is it true that this guy has never expressed regret over what happened back then?

Also, people might not like to hear this: But small government, ultra capitalist policies do not work that well in third world countries.