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[Gamer_By_Proxy]

To me I don’t have issue, western devs can design their characters however they want….my issue comes from them criticizing Asian devs for designing their characters however they want.

Freedom should work both ways.

It’s not about freedom, it’s about the patriarchy. Whatever that means.

 

[Pejo]

i dont think saying selene is ugly or unatractive is a good way to make a point. She just looks like an average real person.

One could argue that video games have even more power to portray an average-looking Joe or Jane as the protagonist, in contrast to Hollywood, because in video games, gameplay, mechanics, and graphics play a major role in the appeal of the medium. In Hollywood, actors are used to bring people to theaters, for example.

Do you think these ladies (as much as I respect them in real life) made into a cast advertised in a video game would sell 1m copies? I don't understand what the argument is. The point of videogames is not to make everything as mundane as real life, it's to entertain. Cute girls doing bombastic things on the screen is entertaining.

 

[Cert.in.Death]

This is how you know making the lady characters unattractive has nothing to do with DEI. It's not like Beyonce or Jennifer Lopez are super popular (somewhat due to their looks). But I do like when some devs make their female character unattractive, because that too also tells a story.

Like.................

Unattractive? Evidence to the contrary:

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Do you think these ladies (as much as I respect them in real life) made into a cast advertised in a video game would sell 1m copies? I don't understand what the argument is. The point of videogames is not to make everything as mundane as real life, it's to entertain. Cute girls doing bombastic things on the screen is entertaining.

I mean:

 

[Fake]

Do you think these ladies (as much as I respect them in real life) made into a cast advertised in a video game would sell 1m copies? I don't understand what the argument is. The point of videogames is not to make everything as mundane as real life, it's to entertain. Cute girls doing bombastic things on the screen is entertaining.

You can make an argument with people that don't have.

They show picture of real life women, but is that what they really want from a sci-fi/roguelike game? For what purpose?
Again, in case some folks here really missed out, the game flopped pretty hard. I don't even consider using that for a counter-argument.

I remember the same kinda of people using the 'new' Fate from Mirror Edge Catalyst.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

You can make an argument with people that don't have.

They show picture of real life women, but is that what they really want from a sci-fi/roguelike game? For what purpose?
Again, in case some folks here really missed out, the game flopped pretty hard. I don't even consider using that for a counter-argument.

I remember the same kinda of people using the 'new' Fate from Mirror Edge Catalyst.

when i see Returnal i think of Metroid. What if then Selene was Samus? Well, Metroid is no really a best selling franchise either.

 

[Pejo]

I mean:

I don't get the point that you're trying to make with this. That she purposefully toned down her looks for this role? I didn't see the movie so if there's a theme in the movie itself that's relevant you'll have to explain it to me. If it's just that movie itself exists, it's not the same thing. It isn't fiction, not really. It's one of those "based on a true story" films, where the framework is based on reality and then liberties are taken to make it fit a movie that people would want to go see. Could they have made her attractive? Probably. But if you're sticking to the "the character makes sense with the story" thing, I'm assuming her looking like that is integral to the plot. Opposite situation of the returnal lady that a 140lbs 45 year old lady would be zip zapping across alien landscapes like a hyped up gladiator.

Anyways, this is way far off topic to the thread, but I don't buy into the need to make videogame characters ugly.

 

[Crayon]

I'll never understand this mindset of not wanting your main character to be a standard in beauty. And they can even do this while conforming to their DEI rules. Black, Latin, Indian, Asian (and lesbian) women can be beautiful as fuck. Or is 'ugly' one of the underrepresented groups spelled out in their DEI rules ?

It can be really effective to have a plain, or even ugly protagonist for your story. In most of these cases though, they are doing it for the wrong reasons.

I was actually really impressed with Alloy when I first saw her. She's not ugly lol. She does look like an average girl, though. That was before the current... trend though. Anyway I found it refreshing.

 

[Moriarty1889]

A leak from a former ND employee alleges that the reason for fugly women characters in their game is to not alienate transpeople.

Yes...

You heard that right...

Yes that sounds exactly like what a ND employee of today would say……fucking weirdos that they are.

 

[Pejo]

It can be really effective to have a plain, or even ugly protagonist for your story. In most of these cases though, they are doing it for the wrong reasons.

I was actually really impressed with Alloy when I first saw her. She's not ugly lol. She does look like an average girl, though. That was before the current... trend though. Anyway I found it refreshing.

Original Aloy concept was cute as a button though. I know a lot of people like the way she currently looks, but I would have loved playing Horizon as this QT 3.14.

 

[Last Hearth]

Original Aloy concept was cute as a button though. I know a lot of people like the way she currently looks, but I would have loved playing Horizon as this QT 3.14.

Call me shallow but the odds of me playing Horizon would go from 0% right now to maybe if it on sale on Steam if the MC looked like that.

 

[Fake]

when i see Returnal i think of Metroid. What if then Selene was Samus? Well, Metroid is no really a best selling franchise either.

Well, you are wrong if you think that way. Metroid legacy, as much as I hate Metroid series myself, is galaxies ahead of whatever Returnal tried to did.

The game flopped, launch on PC and flopped again. People kinda avoid talking because they know very deep what the real issues of this game. Tried to push 'people hate roguelike', but we have amazing rouguelike games selling damn well.

Opinions? We both have differents, we can't agree in tastes, but this game is not near as a success as people want to be.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I don't get the point that you're trying to make with this. That she purposefully toned down her looks for this role? I didn't see the movie so if there's a theme in the movie itself that's relevant you'll have to explain it to me. If it's just that movie itself exists, it's not the same thing. It isn't fiction, not really. It's one of those "based on a true story" films, where the framework is based on reality and then liberties are taken to make it fit a movie that people would want to go see. Could they have made her attractive? Probably. But if you're sticking to the "the character makes sense with the story" thing, I'm assuming her looking like that is integral to the plot. Opposite situation of the returnal lady that a 140lbs 45 year old lady would be zip zapping across alien landscapes like a hyped up gladiator.

Anyways, this is way far off topic to the thread, but I don't buy into the need to make videogame characters ugly.

Thats the point.

I think using 'ugly' undermines any point that is trying to be made.

Video games as a medium are much more receptive to using average-looking people because gameplay, mechanics, and graphics are more important to immersion and engagement than the appearance of characters. Additionally, this medium doesn't revolve around actors like Hollywood does.

in other words and to bring this to the topic: Just because SB has an atractive and sexy character is not going to sell 20M. The irony of this is that games like Nier Automata and Bayoneta are pretty niche games.

 

[wipeout364]

Her experience, wear and tear life has taking on her, overall age when the game starts, etc. Not every character created has to be between the ages of 18-35 and sexy. We all know this happens with men in games. So we shouldn't act surprised with a female character isn't some smoking hot chick.



That's odd.

Not really, you don’t get enough wear and tear in your real life? I spend most of my time dealing with worn out and sick people, not interested in seeing it in games. And I am also happy if all the men are good looking as well.

Also you don’t have to be under 35 to be good looking that’s just crazy talk.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Well, you are wrong if you think that way. Metroid legacy, as much as I hate Metroid series myself, is galaxies ahead of whatever Returnal tried to did.

The game flopped, launch on PC and flopped again. People kinda avoid talking because they know very deep what the real issues of this game. Tried to push 'people hate roguelike', but we have amazing rouguelike games selling damn well.

Opinions? We both have differents, we can't agree in tastes, but this game is not near as a success as people want to be.

I don't think Metroid sells as well as the Mario games or even Zelda's games. It's even more niche than NieR: Automata and Bayonetta.

The point is: If Returnal had a character like Samus, it wouldn't magically sell 10 times more

 

[Crayon]

Original Aloy concept was cute as a button though. I know a lot of people like the way she currently looks, but I would have loved playing Horizon as this QT 3.14.

I wouldn't have minded that, largely because it's closer to what I expect (at least back then). I think the way she ended up is more interesting, though.

 

[NanaMiku]

Well, Nikke is pretty big. Some mobile games held offline collaboration and put offline ads in my country. That's one sign of successful mobile games. Nikke is one of them.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Hope that means more sexy big budget games from them. They should make a third person shooter for consoles and pc based on their mobile game Nikke after they release Stellar Blade.

 

[RickSanchez]

Just as all male characters aren't handsome Chris Hemsworths.

But that's just it. Male main characters are all very much the Chris Hemsworth type, aren't they ? You never see the purple asylum and their kin mention that. Nathan Drake, Kratos, Joel Miller, Master Chief, Isaac Clarke, Doomguy, Solid Snake, Sam Fisher, Adam Jensen, Cloud Strife, Leon Kennedy, all of them tall, handsome, fit & rugged looking men. Absolutely not representative of the average gamer.

But you know what ? I'm fine with that! Like you said:

Gaming is fantasy and it's escapism.

If i see a guy like me (average build with a paunch) as a game protagonist that would be more immersion breaking than anything. I admire and look up to these characters. They should be the best they can be, which includes their looks and physique. And it doesn't have to be universal. You have characters like Harrier Dubois from Disco Elysium. He's not a traditional handsome tough guy. That's because he fits in perfectly within the context of his story as a gruff, ugly, depressed man. If your character's looks reflect their situation and life story, that's fine.

But that's applicable only to men, not women. It's all double standards.

 

[Last Hearth]

Her experience, wear and tear life has taking on her, overall age when the game starts, etc. Not every character created has to be between the ages of 18-35 and sexy. We all know this happens with men in games. So we shouldn't act surprised with a female character isn't some smoking hot chick.



That's odd.

I get what your saying, and the developer has every right to a make a game that's about that. It's just not something that would interest me. So I won't be one of its sales.
Am I saying I would never buy a game without attractive females in it. Of course not, there are games that I anticipate and look forward to because they hit right in my interest wheelhouse, either because they're from a developers I really like, or I'm completely sold on the game concept and liked the previews. Other than those, I'm unlikely to pick up anything else as my gaming time is limited, unless it gets very high word of mouth praise from people I trust, and it has certain other factor and makes me pull the trigger, and pandering to my "male gaze" is one of those factors.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

But that's just it. Male main characters are all very much the Chris Hemsworth type, aren't they ? You never see the purple asylum and their kin mention that. Nathan Drake, Kratos, Joel Miller, Master Chief, Isaac Clarke, Doomguy, Solid Snake, Sam Fisher, Adam Jensen, Cloud Strife, Leon Kennedy, all of them tall, handsome, fit & rugged looking men. Absolutely not representative of the average gamer.

I said, "ALL male characters."

Every character you mentioned is the protagonist in their respective game. but in each of those games, for every Nathan Drake that is an idealized male character, there are many more Sullys; who are clearly not.

And of course, many gaming protagonists are idealized. That's the point... i.e. escapism. People want to step outside of the mundane of their everyday lives and play out an adventure as a strapping handsome hero who saves the day. Like, who doesn't want to play that?

But you know what ? I'm fine with that! Like you said:


If i see a guy like me (average build with a paunch) as a game protagonist that would be more immersion breaking than anything. I admire and look up to these characters. They should be the best they can be, which includes their looks and physique. And it doesn't have to be universal. You have characters like Harrier Dubois from Disco Elysium. He's not a traditional handsome tough guy. That's because he fits in perfectly within the context of his story as a gruff, ugly, depressed man. If your character's looks reflect their situation and life story, that's fine.

But that's applicable only to men, not women. It's all double standards.

Totally! Completely agree.

 

[Codeblew]

I mean:

You are proving their point.

 

[Griffon]

Not to derail the dumb debate, but imho half of the ladies on that photo actually look more feminine than the returnal protagonist. And that's at their "worst" in training gear.

 

[mckmas8808]

But then in the game she can jetpack around, jump up and down 40 foot cliffs, and shoot grenades/lasers at frantic speed. Doesn't that clash against her "wear and tear" visual appearance? Seems dissonant with the picture that her character design would indicate. If anything, I think returnal's MC should be a younger, more agile person instead of an old lady.

No because this is all fantasy. It's not based on a real life person or event. Part of creating a character starts with how you want them to be viewed. Be it gender, age, body type, the clothes they wear, etc. But it doesn't have to be directly like to the movements they make in the game. Who wants to play a game like Returnal where the person can't run or jump because they are 50 years old? You're taking their look too literally.

She looks exactly like what I’d expect a female astronaut/scientist to look like. So it fits imo.

I think people are largely ok when ugly characters are used when they make sense, those kinds of people exist. But just over doing it or changing established characters is when it’s stupid.

Exactly!

 

[mckmas8808]

Not to derail the dumb debate, but imho half of the ladies on that photo actually look more feminine than the returnal protagonist. And that's at their "worst" in training gear.

I honestly think you feel this way, because Selene's just has a short haircut.