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[winjer]

It's more about the way of looking at things than the substance. You see the same thing with Gaza. It's an analytical argument that is baing made. Which is this plus this equals that. Germany losing WW1 + Treaty of Versailles + Great Depression = WW2. Nato Expansion + Ukraine moving to the West = Ukraine invasion etc. As the West was involved in some of these things. therefore we are culpable or so the argument goes. It has nothing do with wrong or right as to why it's an analytical argument. The problem is that these arguments do not account for morality or more importantly the human aspect. They are saying the same thing about Gaza. If Hamas kills 50 people and Israel kills 100 people then it's worse because 100 is greater than 50. However going after terrorists and killing civilians by mistake is not morally the same as purposely killing civilians.

Yes, these are events, manipulated to make up the excuse for aggression.
Russia needed a way to justify it's invasion , even if it's just a blatant lie.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

There's no point keep quoting me, I already said I don't agree with any of it

It's all bullshit.

 

[Nonehxc]

Black Sea Fleet departed Novorrosisk towards...

CRIMEA

Destination of Russian Fleet Revealed After Departure from Novorossiysk

It has been disclosed where the large group of Russian warships that departed from Novorossiysk is headed.

mil.in.ua

Are they nuts? There's a lot of Sea Babies awaiting them.

By now I fully expect them to try their deranged and retarded version of the Normandy Landings and try to land in Odessa and we can have a great ONCE IN A LIFETIME LITERALLY (for them) rendition of the steps scene from Eisenstein' s Battleship Potemkin.

 

[BlackTron]

Oh what short memories we have

It's getting harder these days to differentiate who is actually living in a fantasy land.

I looked up the article that you referenced (because it is just a screenshot) https://www.cato.org/commentary/washington-helped-trigger-ukraine-war#

Let us take the statements of your article at face value.

Evidence grew in recent years that the United States had begun to treat Ukraine as a NATO ally in all but name. Steps included pouring nearly $3 billion in “security assistance” (primarily weaponry) into the country since 2014. Such armaments included the deadly Javelin anti‐tank missiles. Military collaboration also included joint military exercises between U.S. and Ukrainian troops—and between NATO and Ukrainian forces. A segment on National Public Radio in 2019 featured U.S. officials preening about how such measures had strengthened Ukraine’s deterrence capabilities.


In his article, Dorfman documented the extent of other provocative military measures Washington pursued with respect to Ukraine. The CIA “made a series of covert moves that have helped prepare the Ukrainian security services for the current crisis. Shortly after Russia annexed Crimea in 2014, the agency initiated secret paramilitary training programs for Ukrainian special operations personnel in the U.S. and on Ukraine’s former eastern front.”

So the U.S. began pouring this damning security assistance and training into Ukraine immediately after Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine. This is something I didn't know until you dropped this article, thanks.

So after they went in and took their stuff, Russia said "you better not get cozy with any defensive alliances to keep that from happening again or else it'll happen again". Well there you have it. They warned us, so it's our fault! We should have just let it happen, like they told us to!

I think you just don't want even .0000001% extra risk of a nuclear missile landing on your head to stand up for people across the world is what this is really about.

There's no point keep quoting me, I already said I don't agree with any of it

It's all bullshit.

Even the contents of your linked article?

 

[Liljagare]

So the U.S. began pouring this damning security assistance and training into Ukraine immediately after Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine. This is something I didn't know until you dropped this article, thanks.

So after they went in and took their stuff, Russia said "you better not get cozy with any defensive alliances to keep that from happening again or else it'll happen again". Well there you have it. They warned us, so it's our fault! We should have just let it happen, like they told us to!

I think you just don't want even .0000001% extra risk of a nuclear missile landing on your head to stand up for people across the world is what this is really about.

Pretty much all of the "western world" militaries started in 2015 to send down trainers/educators to Ukraine to try and prepare for a war with Russia.

Sweden alone sent down over 10000 officers. Everyone knew what was coming, but noone really wanted to provide more proper support back then.

Such a shame and shade. :/

 

[BlackTron]

Pretty much all of the "western world" militaries started in 2015 to send down trainers/educators to Ukraine to try and prepare for a war with Russia.

Sweden alone sent down over 10000 officers. Everyone knew what was coming, but noone really wanted to provide more proper support back then.

Such a shame and shade. :/

I knew preparations were being made for some time, but didn't realize the onset of scaling up occurred as a direct reaction to Crimea.

 

[Liljagare]

I knew preparations were being made for some time, but didn't realize the onset of scaling up occurred as a direct reaction to Crimea.

Everyone saw the painting on the wall, but, still kept proper aid to a minimum. :/

The west had tons of issues, Brexit, Trump, closure of nuclear plants.

I still think Putin had a very big thick finger stuck up everyones butt regarding all that though..

 

[Lord Panda]

Black Sea Fleet departed Novorrosisk towards...

CRIMEA

Destination of Russian Fleet Revealed After Departure from Novorossiysk

It has been disclosed where the large group of Russian warships that departed from Novorossiysk is headed.

mil.in.ua

Are they nuts? There's a lot of Sea Babies awaiting them.

By now I fully expect them to try their deranged and retarded version of the Normandy Landings and try to land in Odessa and we can have a great ONCE IN A LIFETIME LITERALLY (for them) rendition of the steps scene from Eisenstein' s Battleship Potemkin.

Here's hoping /r/UkraineWarVideoReport/ and /r/CombatFootage/ will have some new juicy reef formation videos soon.

 

[Meicyn]

There's no point keep quoting me, I already said I don't agree with any of it

It's all bullshit.

First you dropped in this thread with a “nukes are scary” derivative, then followed up with a screenshot about how Russia invading Ukraine is the fault of NATO while accusing others of… how did it go?

It's getting harder these days to differentiate who is actually living in a fantasy land.

Ah yes, that was it. We’re all living in a fantasy land, and you are not. Now, at the slightest hint of a challenge to your post, you balk and go with this nugget of ”it’s all bullshit” and how you don’t agree with any of this stuff.

Do you actually believe in anything, or is intellectual cowardice your natural state?

 

[Dr.Morris79]

First you dropped in this thread with a “nukes are scary” derivative, then followed up with a screenshot about how Russia invading Ukraine is the fault of NATO while accusing others of… how did it go?


Ah yes, that was it. We’re all living in a fantasy land, and you are not. Now, at the slightest hint of a challenge to your post, you balk and go with this nugget of ”it’s all bullshit” and how you don’t agree with any of this stuff.

Do you actually believe in anything, or is intellectual cowardice your natural state?

And what would be the correct answer from me for your obviously higher brain function then? You've got it all worked out already it seems

I said it's shit. The reason it started is obvious and shit, and here we are.

What is there to challenge exactly? We're all suffering in some form from it. You won't get far trying to jump on me for it, but carry on

And no, I'm starting to not believe in anything anymore

 

[Meicyn]

And what would be the correct answer from me for your obviously higher brain function then? You've got it all worked out already it seems

I said it's shit. The reason it started is obvious and shit, and here we are.

What is there to challenge exactly? We're all suffering in some form from it. You won't get far trying to jump on me for it, but carry on

And no, I'm starting to not believe in anything anymore

Intellectual cowardice it is, then.

It’s not about the correct answer. You are free to express an opposing opinion.

In another far less serious thread, recently I expressed a point of view that winjer wholeheartedly disagreed with, and he typed up a lengthy response directly to me. I didn’t entirely agree with what he said, but he said his piece and I said mine. I didn’t respond because I couldn’t think of an effective retort to convey my thoughts on the matter, so I chose to let it be. Most folks in that thread disagreed with me. And that’s fine. I respect anyone with conviction behind their beliefs. They likewise do the same. We learn from discussions. In rare cases, folks change their minds. I know I have in some circumstances.

But if you don’t believe in what you are saying, then what are you attempting to accomplish, beyond stirring shit up? This is not the gaming discussions forum, and this thread is trying to be serious the same way the Hamas thread is. If you are going to say something controversial, folks are going to come at you, just as they’ve come after me many a time. For whatever reason, you’ve decided to play the role of victim after the fact and want to go all “oh I guess you’re the only smart one mister smarty pants”, and it’s baffling behavior. If you don’t have a good response, that’s okay. But this:

There's no point keep quoting me, I already said I don't agree with any of it

It's all bullshit.

…is a bitch move.

 

[Nikodemos]

So the U.S. began pouring this damning security assistance and training into Ukraine immediately after Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine. This is something I didn't know until you dropped this article, thanks.

So after they went in and took their stuff, Russia said "you better not get cozy with any defensive alliances to keep that from happening again or else it'll happen again". Well there you have it. They warned us, so it's our fault! We should have just let it happen, like they told us to!

This is something vatniks deliberately gloss over when shrieking about "TEH EBIL HATO HAZ ENCROACHED INTO YOOKRAIYN". It all happened after 2014. Prior to that there were only a handful mostly symbolic officer delegations.
Also vatniks absolutely hate it when people point out that the whole shitshow started in December 2013 over a purely economic agreement, that had already been accepted by everybody, including Yanukovich himself, but got dropped by said Yanukovich at the last moment, after an impromptu summons to Moscow a couple days prior to final signature.

 

[Lord Panda]

This is probably one of my favourite Zelenskyy moments:



These goddamn onions, man.

 

[FunkMiller]

And what would be the correct answer from me for your obviously higher brain function then? You've got it all worked out already it seems

I said it's shit. The reason it started is obvious and shit, and here we are.

What is there to challenge exactly? We're all suffering in some form from it. You won't get far trying to jump on me for it, but carry on

And no, I'm starting to not believe in anything anymore

It's been proved to you repeatedly that any and all NATO action over this situation has been in response to direct Russian aggression. It's also abundantly clear which side is in the right, and which side is not.

Take the L like a man. Don't be like Putin.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Intellectual cowardice it is, then.

It’s not about the correct answer. You are free to express an opposing opinion.

In another far less serious thread, recently I expressed a point of view that winjer wholeheartedly disagreed with, and he typed up a lengthy response directly to me. I didn’t entirely agree with what he said, but he said his piece and I said mine. I didn’t respond because I couldn’t think of an effective retort to convey my thoughts on the matter, so I chose to let it be. Most folks in that thread disagreed with me. And that’s fine. I respect anyone with conviction behind their beliefs. They likewise do the same. We learn from discussions. In rare cases, folks change their minds. I know I have in some circumstances.

But if you don’t believe in what you are saying, then what are you attempting to accomplish, beyond stirring shit up? This is not the gaming discussions forum, and this thread is trying to be serious the same way the Hamas thread is. If you are going to say something controversial, folks are going to come at you, just as they’ve come after me many a time. For whatever reason, you’ve decided to play the role of victim after the fact and want to go all “oh I guess you’re the only smart one mister smarty pants”, and it’s baffling behavior. If you don’t have a good response, that’s okay. But this:


…is a bitch move.

So you want an Internet fight over something I don't agree with to try and prove to me why I was wrong by some social barometer you've set by trying to use someone else on the forum to convey, because my answers wasnt mensa enough in some form for you?

Okay

And playing the 'victim'? What the fuck? we're all victims in this, unless you're not paying your taxes? Bit of an odd one that, but okay

Guess what, I don't agree with any of this

And drop the underhand insults, it's a bitch move.

It's been proved to you repeatedly that any and all NATO action over this situation has been in response to direct Russian aggression. It's also abundantly clear which side is in the right, and which side is not.

Take the L like a man. Don't be like Putin.

Phew, thank god you said this

I agree with it all now. Thanks.

Seriously lads, you can't honestly tell me the billions of dollars and pounds thrown at this thing is a good thing? Surely? If you have been keeping up, even that seems a bit suspect.. There are so many things involved in this and why it actually could have happend it's mind bending. Of course on the face of it, Russia bad, UK US good, yay, but if you've delved into it, it all looks a bit grey, from everyone involved. Which is why I said I don't believe much of anything anymore

Who can you trust? Who do YOU trust?

And I get why you're all jumping on me, it was the 'America poking the bear' dig from the picture. But we do have to be honest and admit it didn't help matters, and neither did the UK.

I'll never concede any of this is good though. Never going to happen.

Carry on soldiers

 

[winjer]

So you want an Internet fight over something I don't agree with to try and prove to me why I was wrong by some social barometer you've set by trying to use someone else on the forum to convey, because my answers wasnt mensa enough in some form for you?

Okay

And playing the 'victim'? What the fuck? we're all victims in this, unless you're not paying your taxes? Bit of an odd one that, but okay

But we are not all victims.
Russia sure as hell are not victims, because they are the aggressor. And this is not the first time they invaded Ukraine.
We in the west are also not victims. Paying cents to help a country defend itself from invasion, does not make us victims.
Just remember that most of the aid we send to Ukraine is decade old equipment. It's surplus on a warehouse.
In some cases it benefits the country giving the equipment, as they get a valid and moral excuse to get rid of older stuff and get new one.
This has a few advantages, such as improving the capability of that country to defend itself, because it has better equipment.
And it helps create new jobs, because companies need more workers to make more equipment.

The real victims are the Ukrainians people. That have to endure, once again, another Russian invasion.
The thousands of dead people, the economic loss, the lost infrastructure, the trauma from war crimes.

 

[STARSBarry]

So you want an Internet fight over something I don't agree with to try and prove to me why I was wrong by some social barometer you've set by trying to use someone else on the forum to convey, because my answers wasnt mensa enough in some form for you?

Okay

And playing the 'victim'? What the fuck? we're all victims in this, unless you're not paying your taxes? Bit of an odd one that, but okay

Guess what, I don't agree with any of this

And drop the underhand insults, it's a bitch move.


Phew, thank god you said this

I agree with it all now. Thanks.

Seriously lads, you can't honestly tell me the billions of dollars and pounds thrown at this thing is a good thing? Surely? If you have been keeping up, even that seems a bit suspect.. There are so many things involved in this and why it actually could have happend it's mind bending. Of course on the face of it, Russia bad, UK US good, yay, but if you've delved into it, it all looks a bit grey, from everyone involved. Which is why I said I don't believe much of anything anymore

Who can you trust? Who do YOU trust?

And I get why you're all jumping on me, it was the 'America poking the bear' dig from the picture. But we do have to be honest and admit it didn't help matters, and neither did the UK.

I'll never concede any of this is good though. Never going to happen.

Carry on soldiers

Been awhile since iv felt the need to comment in this thread.


But uhhhhhhhh I mean your wearing your colours on your sleeve that's for sure.

To a certain extent I think it's fine that people who's answer to everything is "I try not to engage" swiftly followed by "both sides are as bad as each other" followed by behind closed door predictable political stances they feel ashamed to admit in public (and forbidden to on this forum). Like I got a mate who talks like this and you get a few pints down him and he let's it all out.

But yeah, most sane people can differentiate paying taxes and being a "victim" of a war. Your not here to be convinced that much is obvious, but if your honestly at the point that the concern for Ukraine is "how much is it costing me in taxes" while living in the UK then they got you good, we have far larger drains with far fewer direct consequences we can list (on other platforms), which make our expenditure on aid towards this war laughable.

Just don't act surprised or act the "victim" when people call you out on your utter nonsense next time you feel the need to spout it out on a public forum, that's why it's public.

And I don't think he's trying to convince you, as you said yourself, your not intrested, he's just making sure he highlights for the benefit of other readers how vapid and self centred the reasons behind your stance is.

 

[T-0800]

Of course on the face of it, Russia bad, UK US good, yay, but if you've delved into it, it all looks a bit grey, from everyone involved. Which is why I said I don't believe much of anything anymore

 

[Liljagare]

That's alot of artillery..


France will transfer Mirage 2000 to Ukraine and train pilots, — Macron

 

[Ozriel]

Russia keeps killing thousands of people in Ukraine but somehow it's still not their only fault. Lmao at calling 3+ year war aimed at destroying/enslaving entire nation an "overreaction".

No, see, there’s a difference. They called it a ‘cruel overreaction’. I guess that makes it right for the hundreds of thousands of people killed in the senseless war Russia started.

I say take the kid gloves off and give Ukraine everything they need to defend themselves. And the right to use the weapons as they see fit.

 

[RJMacready73]

Seriously lads, you can't honestly tell me the billions of dollars and pounds thrown at this thing is a good thing? Surely?

do you want to speak Russian? cause not pouring billions of dollars into Ukraine to help them fight off Russia is how you prevent the rest of Europe having to learn fucking Russian you imbecile

 

[BlackTron]

But we are not all victims.
Russia sure as hell are not victims, because they are the aggressor. And this is not the first time they invaded Ukraine.
We in the west are also not victims. Paying cents to help a country defend itself from invasion, does not make us victims.
Just remember that most of the aid we send to Ukraine is decade old equipment. It's surplus on a warehouse.
In some cases it benefits the country giving the equipment, as they get a valid and moral excuse to get rid of older stuff and get new one.
This has a few advantages, such as improving the capability of that country to defend itself, because it has better equipment.
And it helps create new jobs, because companies need more workers to make more equipment.

The real victims are the Ukrainians people. That have to endure, once again, another Russian invasion.
The thousands of dead people, the economic loss, the lost infrastructure, the trauma from war crimes.

This reply was too Mensa for its intended audience.

Too much thinking, too many facts. I think that to reach this man, we need to speak in feelings and emotions.

 

[BlackTron]

do you want to speak Russian? cause not pouring billions of dollars into Ukraine to help them fight off Russia is how you prevent the rest of Europe having to learn fucking Russian you imbecile

Can we change his tag to Neville Chamberlain?

 

[Nikodemos]

And this is not the first time they invaded Ukraine.

It's not the first time they straight-up invaded another country just because they could, either. It just happens to be the first time the West did something more than "tut-tut" disapprovingly while offering token support to the victim. Admittedly, up until this time, they either invaded small places most Westerners couldn't put on a map (Ichkeria/Chechnya), or stopped short of complete annexation (Georgia, 1st invasion of Ukraine).

 

[winjer]

It's not the first time they straight-up invaded another country just because they could, either. It just happens to be the first time the West did something more than "tut-tut" disapprovingly while offering token support to the victim. Admittedly, up until this time, they either invaded small places most Westerners couldn't put on a map (Ichkeria/Chechnya), or stopped short of complete annexation (Georgia, 1st invasion of Ukraine).

We did fight the Crimean war against Russia in 1853.
But that was the exception.

 

[The Janitor]

 

[Nonehxc]

Medieval Joust in Pokrovsky direction between the mighty paladin Sir Bradley du M2 and the scoundrely overweight RusSerf Hobo BTR.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/XKFpsiUbty

And, I just can't explain anything from this next video. There's no sense in anything they do from start to finish. It's just a collection of two guys doing the dumbest thing they can do every single time. That grenade throw...

The soundtrack, with the 'Ja Russki' song from that russian nazi singer Shaman is just peak acid sarcasm.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/U4DzG4MoeL

 

[Tams]

So you want an Internet fight over something I don't agree with to try and prove to me why I was wrong by some social barometer you've set by trying to use someone else on the forum to convey, because my answers wasnt mensa enough in some form for you?

Okay

And playing the 'victim'? What the fuck? we're all victims in this, unless you're not paying your taxes? Bit of an odd one that, but okay

Guess what, I don't agree with any of this

And drop the underhand insults, it's a bitch move.


Phew, thank god you said this

I agree with it all now. Thanks.

Seriously lads, you can't honestly tell me the billions of dollars and pounds thrown at this thing is a good thing? Surely? If you have been keeping up, even that seems a bit suspect.. There are so many things involved in this and why it actually could have happend it's mind bending. Of course on the face of it, Russia bad, UK US good, yay, but if you've delved into it, it all looks a bit grey, from everyone involved. Which is why I said I don't believe much of anything anymore

Who can you trust? Who do YOU trust?

And I get why you're all jumping on me, it was the 'America poking the bear' dig from the picture. But we do have to be honest and admit it didn't help matters, and neither did the UK.

I'll never concede any of this is good though. Never going to happen.

Carry on soldiers

Perhaps we should club together to get you a one way ticket to Russia. See how 'grey' it is then.

 

[Nonehxc]

Closer view of that Bradley vs BTR joust...

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/9OWhXyxPrO

 

[Liljagare]

 

[winjer]

Closer view of that Bradley vs BTR joust...

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/9OWhXyxPrO

Damn, Russians using own soldiers as a literal meat shield.

 

[FunkMiller]

Seriously lads, you can't honestly tell me the billions of dollars and pounds thrown at this thing is a good thing? Surely? If you have been keeping up, even that seems a bit suspect.. There are so many things involved in this and why it actually could have happend it's mind bending. Of course on the face of it, Russia bad, UK US good, yay, but if you've delved into it, it all looks a bit grey, from everyone involved. Which is why I said I don't believe much of anything anymore

This kind of comment betrays a fundamental lack of understanding about the current geo-political situation. I don't want to sound patronising, but you obviously don't have much of a grip (for whatever reason) on how and why this is all happening.

If you did, you'd know that the money being spent on defending Ukraine is an absolute pittance, given the benefits it will have long term for the soft power of the western democracies of the world.

Now, if you actually do understand what's going on, and you're not keen on western powers achieving more power and dominance, then your position on all of this is understandable, but that would make you a supporter of Russia, by definition.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Perhaps we should club together to get you a one way ticket to Russia. See how 'grey' it is then.

This kind of comment betrays a fundamental lack of understanding about the current geo-political situation. I don't want to sound patronising, but you obviously don't have much of a grip (for whatever reason) on how and why this is all happening.

If you did, you'd know that the money being spent on defending Ukraine is an absolute pittance, given the benefits it will have long term for the soft power of the western democracies of the world.

Now, if you actually do understand what's going on, and you're not keen on western powers achieving more power and dominance, then your position on all of this is understandable, but that would make you a supporter of Russia, by definition.

Okay, you got me

I never meant any harm to anyone, you can perceive me in all the shit ways you feel necessary. I just don't agree with needless death on any side, wars being started over bullshit reasons or taxes going towards shit things. Whatever I say will be perceived as shit and in the wrong. Fair enough, it's a hot topic

Just know I love you all. Peace

Just love what you've got. It doesn't last long.

 

[Liljagare]

Okay, you got me

There is nothing to "get" with you, lol.

You write out/spell our yourself who you are, without aid. 0_o

 

[Tams]

Okay, you got me

I never meant any harm to anyone, you can perceive me in all the shit ways you feel necessary. I just don't agree with needless death on any side, wars being started over bullshit reasons or taxes going towards shit things. Whatever I say will be perceived as shit and in the wrong. Fair enough, it's a hot topic

Just know I love you all. Peace

Just love what you've got. It doesn't last long.

No, you're just being deeply naïve. Or at least I hope it's just that.

Like it or loathe it, we, like every other species, are violent. Many of us do take or try to take what we want through violence. So this is something we have to live and deal with.

Of course the violence is horrible, and yes, of course it could have been avoided. Could have, not can. Go ask Putin why he decided to perpetrate it.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

There is nothing to "get" with you, lol.

You write out/spell our yourself who you are, without aid. 0_o

Oh, right. You know me so well from a few paragraphs on a forum. Good for you, I guess. Your insight is amazing. But know this. From what you wrote I know you're a complete cunt.

No, you're just being deeply naïve. Or at least I hope it's just that.

Like it or loathe it, we, like every other species, are violent. Many of us do take or try to take what we want through violence. So this is something we have to live and deal with.

Of course the violence is horrible, and yes, of course it could have been avoided. Could have, not can. Go ask Putin why he decided to perpetrate it.

You seem to think I'm some form of Putin simp, I'm not. And I'm fully aware of what violence humans are capable of, I've seen enough in my own life.

And once again, I'll say it. It's all bullshit.

Nothing we say here will change that.

 

[Liljagare]

Oh, right. You know me so well from a few paragraphs on a forum. Good for you, I guess. Your insight is amazing. But know this. From what you wrote I know you're a complete cunt.

We have a saying over here, that would fit here, but, for some reason, I don't think I have to share it.

You write it all out eloquently enough for yourself.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

We have a saying over here, that would fit here, but, for some reason, I don't think I have to share it. You write it all out eloquently enough yourself.

If you say so

But from what you wrote, I can still tell your a bit cunty.

 

[Lord Panda]

Okay, you got me

I never meant any harm to anyone, you can perceive me in all the shit ways you feel necessary. I just don't agree with needless death on any side, wars being started over bullshit reasons or taxes going towards shit things. Whatever I say will be perceived as shit and in the wrong. Fair enough, it's a hot topic

Just know I love you all. Peace

Just love what you've got. It doesn't last long.

If Russia were to succeed, the result would be significantly more death and suffering. Russia invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea. Following this, Russia also annexed Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, and Kherson, and continues to target civilians and civilian infrastructure. Ukraine has every right to defend itself and reclaim its territories. This situation is clear-cut: Russia must be defeated, and ideally, Putin and his associates strung up at the Hague. There are now two sides to this which is why you've gotten so much heat for this.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Killing the army that is invading your country to carry out genocide is not needless death, they are very necessary deaths for Ukraine to survive.

To pretend there is a 'no deaths' solution is wishful thinking. And perhaps a desire to be spared the images as all the killings in a Russian controlled Ukraine will take place out of sight. Unless they livestream the executions of 'nazis', with Russia you just never know.

 

[Forsete]

Ouchie!

 

[Fenix34]

 

[FunkMiller]

Okay, you got me

I never meant any harm to anyone, you can perceive me in all the shit ways you feel necessary. I just don't agree with needless death on any side, wars being started over bullshit reasons or taxes going towards shit things. Whatever I say will be perceived as shit and in the wrong. Fair enough, it's a hot topic

Because, on this, you are wrong. Instead of lashing out at other people and calling them cunts, maybe it would be a good idea for you to research the situation a little better, so that you understand it more. That way you'll come to realise that your current position is borne from an ignorance of how the geo-politics of the world currently function.

 

[Forsete]

Unconfirmed, but ouchie#2 if true.

 

[RJMacready73]

It's real simple, the war in Ukraine doesn't get any more black and white, there is no grey, there is no murky western backed agenda that led to this, it's just pure fucking evil fascist cunts invading another sovereign country because they didn't like the route its people had chosen for themselves, that's all you need to know, anything else is just Russian propaganda for simple minded cunts to obfuscate the situation.

 

[CSJ]

Mate I know you're getting quoted non-stop but I just need to figure out something.
Either your point is coming across wrong or your obtusely against a soverign nation being able to defend itself or get help doing it.

I just don't agree with needless death on any side,

Do you think anyone here does?
None of us want Russia in Ukraine, we want Ukraine to be free from this but it's not possible without force.

wars being started over bullshit reasons

No duh, of course not but do you think Ukraine had a choice?

You don't appease the aggressor, especially one that would treat you in the most horrific ways under even a capitulation.
You've seen how Russia treats civilians during an invasion, now imagine a permanent occupation and take over with full control and nobody to hit them back.

or taxes going towards shit things.

See this is where I think your true colours come out, it's not about being sad that it's happening or that wars shouldn't happen and that it's wrong, it's about you.
What do you want? State it plainly because it's really sounding like you want Ukraine left to their own to defend.

Just know I love you all. Peace

Do I have to say the reguritated but oh so true "If you want peace, prepare for war" quote?
You sound like people who wanted to appease Hitler, who wanted peace and forgot history that peace doesn't come without a price.
You cannot let a country take over another sovereign country by force, we cannot let those in need go without it.

If someone attacked you on the street and you yelled help but nobody came, you going to carry that on your sleeve forever?
Would you not even call the people you pay taxes to, to come help if it was someone else?

Also if you're from the UK, don't forget that "people paying taxes" in other countries aided your country in WW2 to the amount of $88.28 billion in today's money.
But going by your belief nobody should have helped and your country.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I just don't agree with needless death on any side

That's a very naive way to view the issue, bordering on willful ignorance. Moscow has been propagandizing to peacenicks to weaponize them against the West's will to arm Ukraine.

Russia has a long and sordid history of genocide, no matter who was running the country. The Ukrainians are just the latest victims.

 

[Liljagare]

Russian Su-57 might have been hit and damaged, unconfirmed as of now,




The Netherlands and Denmark will contribute EUR 400 million in a Swedish fund to build CV 90 infantry fighting vehicles for Ukraine.

 

[RJMacready73]

Maybe Dr.Morris79 needs to go back to the previous page and see how Russia is returning POWs...

 

[BlackTron]

See this is where I think your true colours come out, it's not about being sad that it's happening or that wars shouldn't happen and that it's wrong, it's about you.

You figured it out. If it wasn't for his personal cost, he wouldn't be looking for the other reasons not to do it, none of which he even has a basic understanding of, they're just headline grabs that support his already-decided position.

You don't appease the aggressor, especially one that would treat you in the most horrific ways under even a capitulation.

You sound like people who wanted to appease Hitler, who wanted peace and forgot history that peace doesn't come without a price.
You cannot let a country take over another sovereign country by force, we cannot let those in need go without it.

I still make a strong case for changing the tag to Neville Chamberlain. The funny thing is, he probably doesn't even know who that is! He'll have to find out afterwards, THEN go oh yah that's me! LOL