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[PdotMichael]

I keep seeing people compare this to the conduct between North and South Koreans and I don't think that's a fair comparison at all. North Korea isn't a racist colony on Korean land, Israel is. Israel is about white Europeans believing themselves to be entitled to land in the Middle East just by virtue of being European. Again, the best comparison would be an African athlete, from Ghana or Kenya or something, refusing to shake hands with a white athlete from Apartheid South Africa. Because in conflicts like the one in Israel and South Africa the mere presence of the individual is seen as part of the problem. No South Korean is going to think a North Korean has 'taken his land' or is somewhere he isn't supposed to be but that's entirely what some people feel about Jewish Europeans in Israel or, back during the days of Apartheid, about Europeans in South Africa.

More like "white Europeans" - whatever that means in that context, were tired of getting oppressed and killed in Europe.

 

[Tubobutts]

I keep seeing people compare this to the conduct between North and South Koreans and I don't think that's a fair comparison at all. North Korea isn't a racist colony on Korean land, Israel is. Israel is about white Europeans believing themselves to be entitled to land in the Middle East just by virtue of being European. Again, the best comparison would be an African athlete, from Ghana or Kenya or something, refusing to shake hands with a white athlete from Apartheid South Africa. Because in conflicts like the one in Israel and South Africa the mere presence of the individual is seen as part of the problem. No South Korean is going to think a North Korean has 'taken his land' or is somewhere he isn't supposed to be but that's entirely what some people feel about Jewish Europeans in Israel or, back during the days of Apartheid, about Europeans in South Africa.

Shit. Only two generations to go from non-white, non-european, subhumans to white European colonialists. That's pretty good. Other oppressed minority groups could probably learn something from those jews.

 

[Mesousa]

Not defending Israel, but a very substantial number of Jewish Israelis are not of European origin. A lot of them "can't go back to Europe", which I'm assuming is your solution.

Dont Arabs(Jewish, and others) make up like half of Israel?

Its kind of hard to count though because I know they don't count the Arab jews who made Aliyah as Arabs once they get there on official government forms.

 

[PhantomZone]

Meh he's standing up for what he believes in, can't fault him for that. Even if he looks stupid for not showing sportsmanship.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

this picture is fucking powerful, while the judo one is just sad. It sounds incredibly cliché but love beats hate every day.

 

[iceatcs]

Hopefully Egypt will do something about him. Maybe force kiss Jewish ass.

 

[WaterAstro]

Saw this on reddit. If the guy is going out of his way to shake your hand, then suck up your pride and be a good sportsman. He could have used the opportunity to be a role model to the idiots on twitter and his country.

Well he'll either be a role model or his country will make a role model out of his dead body.

Although this does make you wonder whether the North Korean girl will get in any trouble from the state

I've seen North Korea escapee documentaries. I have no doubt that there will be trouble.

 

[KimiNewt]

Meh he's standing up for what he believes in, can't fault him for that. Even if he looks stupid for not showing sportsmanship.

Yes, standing up to what you believe in is so important. That's why I'm voting Trump!

Dont Arabs(Jewish, and others) make up like half of Israel?

Its kind of hard to count though because I know they don't count the Arab jews who made Aliyah as Arabs once they get there on official government forms.

If you count the Arabs along with the Jews of Arab origin then yes, it's approximately a half.

 

[kmfdmpig]

Meh he's standing up for what he believes in, can't fault him for that. Even if he looks stupid for not showing sportsmanship.

If he chose not to shake the hand of Netanyahu or the head of the Israeli military that would be the case. Not shaking the hand of a competitor from another country isn't really standing up for anything except bigotry.

 

[Pusherman]

Shit. Only two generations to go from non-white, non-european, subhumans to white European colonialists. That's pretty good. Other oppressed minority groups could probably learn something from those jews.

Oh how I agree with your sentiment my man. I get that you're sarcastically criticizing me but I'm actually wholly in agreement. It's amazing how Europeans have made their most oppressed minority into just another part of themselves and have cast Arabs/Muslims as either the real or the new antisemitic people. But don't think this switch from oppressed minority to part of the European whole is something only I've noticed or something that I've thought up/created. I don't know if you're European yourself but I have definitely noticed that, according to right wing politicians, Europe has suddenly always been a Judeo-Christian continent. Similarly, Israeli's have largely adopted the European view on the Middle East, casting the native Arabs as barbarians and themselves as the civilized. Now I know that Jews suffered terrible oppression for millennia in Europe, culminating in the only systematic attempt at destroying a perceived people. But that doesn't mean that Israel did not start out as a form of British colonialism and that it has not turned out to be a form of European settler colonialism. Zionism predates the Holocaust and is just the Jewish expression to the nationalist fervor that overtook Europe in the 19th century. It is a very European idea.

Also, I don't know how to double quote but someone suggested my solution would be to have all Israeli's go back to Europe and that isn't my solution at all. Israeli's live in the region now and that won't change but whites didn't have to leave South Africa for that conflict to be solved either. An official Jewish state, whether in the context of a two-state or a single-state solution, will always be seen as a colony. The only way I see that working is if the Palestinians are either completely displaced or gone in some other way. The only real solution, as unrealistic as it might seem now, is a single secular state with no real religious or ethnic identity. There's this Israeli historian called Shlomo Sand that comes to a similar conclusion in a book about the history of the idea of an ethnic Jewish people. I recommend it to anyone interested in a book that questions the historical claims to Palestine by certain Zionists. Now the title is The Myth of the Jewish People, which sounds terribly antisemitic of course but the book itself is actually a very nuanced and thorough historical overview of Judaism and its ethnic component.

 

[secondspace]

I saw an article earlier in the week about the Koreans taking a selfie, the government in the North have no problem with it, it's part of their PR effort.

I'd guess that Egyptians are as saturated with propaganda saying that Israel is bad as much as Americans are with the opposite and I doubt the Egyptian government will crack down on this guy or would have given him much protection if there had been a backlash because he had shaken hands.

 

[sems4arsenal]

It's not just the fact of what Israel is doing to Palestine but Egypt and Israel have had numerous wars before.

It's not the first time Egyptian Athletes/players refuse to shake hands with Israelis nor will it be the last.

He bowed which is in the rules but shaking hands isn't as an Egyptian I have no problem with what he did.

 

[Phantast2k]

Apart from the fact that Egypt and Israel have had a peace treaty for decades, there is nothing to suggest that the Israeli is somehow bad to Palestinians. At least not from what I was able to find about him.
He was born in Jerusalem, but is currently living in Netanya, which is a core Israeli city, not some Zionist settlement in the West Bank:

The idea to create the settlement of Netanya was drawn up at a meeting of the Bnei Binyamin association in Zikhron Ya'akov.[3] The location was decided upon near the ancient site of Poleg, and it was decided to name it in honor of Nathan (Hebrew: Natan) Straus (1848–1931),[4][5] co-owner of Macy's department store,[6] New York City Parks Commissioner, and president of the New York City Board of Health,[7] who gifted two-thirds of his personal fortune to projects benefiting Jews and Arabs in Palestine.[5][7][8] "Netanya...was named for Straus in the hope he would donate money to them. When he told them he had no more money to give they were disappointed, but decided to keep the city's name anyway."[9] In 1928 members of Bnei Binyamin and Hanote, an organisation set up after Straus was informed of the establishment of the settlement, are said to have purchased 350 acres (1.4 km2) of Umm Khaled lands.[3]

His instagram shows no signs of affiliation to Zionism, not even to overt religiousness.

So even if the Egyptian is feeling it for the Palestinians, there is no reason to diss a random Israeli. If he wanted to protest Israel, he would be better off forfeiting the fight.
Not only did he not shake his hand, but also refused to bow, which, as someone who practiced Judo can tell you, is important in the sport - similar to shake hands in boxing.

 

[PdotMichael]

Oh how I agree with your sentiment my man. I get that you're sarcastically criticizing me but I'm actually wholly in agreement. It's amazing how Europeans have made their most oppressed minority into just another part of themselves and have cast Arabs/Muslims as either the real or the new antisemitic people. But don't think this switch from oppressed minority to part of the European whole is something only I've noticed or something that I've thought up/created. I don't know if you're European yourself but I have definitely noticed that, according to right wing politicians, Europe has suddenly always been a Judeo-Christian continent. Similarly, Israeli's have largely adopted the European view on the Middle East, casting the native Arabs as barbarians and themselves as the civilized. Now I know that Jews suffered terrible oppression for millennia in Europe, culminating in the only systematic attempt at destroying a perceived people. But that doesn't mean that Israel did not start out as a form of British colonialism and that it has not turned out to be a form of European settler colonialism. Zionism predates the Holocaust and is just the Jewish expression to the nationalist fervor that overtook Europe in the 19th century. It is a very European idea.

Also, I don't know how to double quote but someone suggested my solution would be to have all Israeli's go back to Europe and that isn't my solution at all. Israeli's live in the region now and that won't change but whites didn't have to leave South Africa for that conflict to be solved either. An official Jewish state, whether in the context of a two-state or a single-state solution, will always be seen as a colony. The only way I see that working is if the Palestinians are either completely displaced or gone in some other way. The only real solution, as unrealistic as it might seem now, is a single secular state with no real religious or ethnic identity. There's this Israeli historian called Shlomo Sand that comes to a similar conclusion in a book about the history of the idea of an ethnic Jewish people. I recommend it to anyone interested in a book that questions the historical claims to Palestine by certain Zionists. Now the title is The Myth of the Jewish People, which sounds terribly antisemitic of course but the book itself is actually a very nuanced and thorough historical overview of Judaism and its ethnic component.

You entire post is flawed because there is no such thing as Europeans in the context you are trying to frame your narrative.

It sounds more you are mixing this event with another battle you are fighting.

 

[Smellycat]

Smh should have shaken his hands buddy.

To everyone who is saying "his name is Islam, read the OP", it is pretty safe to assume that the guy wrote the post and phrased it that way to troll

 

[mcrommert]

Oh how I agree with your sentiment my man. I get that you're sarcastically criticizing me but I'm actually wholly in agreement. It's amazing how Europeans have made their most oppressed minority into just another part of themselves and have cast Arabs/Muslims as either the real or the new antisemitic people. But don't think this switch from oppressed minority to part of the European whole is something only I've noticed or something that I've thought up/created. I don't know if you're European yourself but I have definitely noticed that, according to right wing politicians, Europe has suddenly always been a Judeo-Christian continent. Similarly, Israeli's have largely adopted the European view on the Middle East, casting the native Arabs as barbarians and themselves as the civilized. Now I know that Jews suffered terrible oppression for millennia in Europe, culminating in the only systematic attempt at destroying a perceived people. But that doesn't mean that Israel did not start out as a form of British colonialism and that it has not turned out to be a form of European settler colonialism. Zionism predates the Holocaust and is just the Jewish expression to the nationalist fervor that overtook Europe in the 19th century. It is a very European idea.

Also, I don't know how to double quote but someone suggested my solution would be to have all Israeli's go back to Europe and that isn't my solution at all. Israeli's live in the region now and that won't change but whites didn't have to leave South Africa for that conflict to be solved either. An official Jewish state, whether in the context of a two-state or a single-state solution, will always be seen as a colony. The only way I see that working is if the Palestinians are either completely displaced or gone in some other way. The only real solution, as unrealistic as it might seem now, is a single secular state with no real religious or ethnic identity. There's this Israeli historian called Shlomo Sand that comes to a similar conclusion in a book about the history of the idea of an ethnic Jewish people. I recommend it to anyone interested in a book that questions the historical claims to Palestine by certain Zionists. Now the title is The Myth of the Jewish People, which sounds terribly antisemitic of course but the book itself is actually a very nuanced and thorough historical overview of Judaism and its ethnic component.

No words. This is usual anti-semetic nonsense. It starts with book recommendationw.

 

[Androidsleeps]

The funny thing this is that there wouldn't have been any uproar or controversy had he shaken his hand (especially since the Israeli is the one who extended his hand), politicians and religious leaders have shaken hands with Israeli government reps and that barely caused "controversy".

This goes to show you how strong the middle eastern propaganda machine is going, where normal people would view everyone from certain parts of the world as "the enemy". Don't try to brush this as salty loser athlete or "standing up for what he believes", like someone mentioned here if this was a political figure then that's a different scenario - a political statement. This? Bigotry and hatred, which I'm afraid has been going strong against anything "jew" in the ME thanks to the decades of political propaganda.

 

[sems4arsenal]

The funny thing this is that there wouldn't have been any uproar or controversy had he shaken his hand (especially since the Israeli is the one who extended his hand), politicians and religious leaders have shaken hands with Israeli government reps and that barely caused "controversy".

This goes to show you how strong the middle eastern propaganda machine is going, where normal people would view everyone from certain parts of the world as "the enemy". Don't try to brush this as salty loser athlete or "standing up for what he believes", like someone mentioned here if this was a political figure then that's a different scenario - a political statement. This? Bigotry and hatred, which I'm afraid has been going strong against anything "jew" in the ME thanks to the decades of political propaganda.

There would've been in Egypt no doubt about it.

 

[Slurpy2k20]

Absolutely shameful

We live in an insane world, where some people might find this more "shameful" than Israel slaughtering populations. Yes, in an ideal world he would have shaken his hand. But in an ideal world, the same people "outraged" by something like this which has zero effect on anyone would be infinitely more outraged that the warcrimes Israel commits on a daily basis and imprisoning an entire population with zero repercussions, but that's not the case.

But yeah, this Egyptian dude is the scum of humanity, clearly.

 

[Murkas]

Isn't Egypt constantly fucking over Palestinians? Seems kinda hypocritical.

Should've just shook his hand and taken his execution when he returns to Egypt like a man.

 

[Anung]

this picture is fucking powerful, while the judo one is just sad. It sounds incredibly cliché but love beats hate every day.

I'll need to wait and see if love beats hate when we know if there are any repercussions when the NK gymnast goes home.

 

[Jag]

Isn't Egypt constantly fucking over Palestinians? Seems kinda hypocritical.

Should've just shook his hand and taken his execution when he returns to Egypt like a man.

Gaza has an Egyptian border that is strictly controlled by the Egyptians. They don't want them any more than any other Arab country.

And yeah the bigger issue is how people justify this because the guy could be killed over it. If that's the case then they have no business being in the Olympics.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

That's a bad look, homie..

 

[Kinyou]

I'll need to wait and see if love beats hate when we know if there are any repercussions when the NK gymnast goes home.

I'm not sure if we'd ever know about it, but I'm also not sure the north Koreans would be upset about it. Afaik are they also interested in a reunification, just obviously with their goverment as leader. Their hate seems more into the direction of the South Korean goverment and the USA

 

[Morrigan Stark]

As for this situation? Man, that's some complex stuff over a handshake. I honestly feel for both parties here. =/

WTF. This isn't a "both sides" case. The Egyptian judoka was an asshole. Enough with the excuses.

In my opinion, if you can't respect your competitors then you shouldn't be competing against them.

There have been plenty of political protests related to the Olympics, and hey, that's cool -- don't participate if you want to protest.

This guy should've forfeit before the match if he can't respect the fundamentals of the sport (bow) and even basic human decency.

Exactly.

It's hard for me to say on this matter....

on one hand it's disgraceful, but on the other what do we really know about the guy? he could have family and children and where he lives that could probably cause some serious problems.

if shaking the guys hand could put your life, your families life at risk wtf you gonna do? but then again if no one stands up to radical islam from within it's never going to change.

How about, not participate in the Olympics if it's that life-and-family threatening?

I love how we all just accept Egypt is a country where its citizens get murdered for shaking someone's hand.

Seriously. The excuses are mind-boggling. I guess we have such a low opinion of Egypt that we should accept that this is what will happen. Egypt sure is a shithole, right? And of course, by that Egyptian judoka's logic of blaming a country's policy on a random citizen , that makes the Egyptian judoka complicit in it too. Or I guess in this case it doesn't count?

If he chose not to shake the hand of Netanyahu or the head of the Israeli military that would be the case. Not shaking the hand of a competitor from another country isn't really standing up for anything except bigotry.

This.

We live in an insane world, where some people might find this more "shameful" than Israel slaughtering populations. Yes, in an ideal world he would have shaken his hand. But in an ideal world, the same people "outraged" by something like this which has zero effect on anyone would be infinitely more outraged that the warcrimes Israel commits on a daily basis and imprisoning an entire population with zero repercussions, but that's not the case.

But yeah, this Egyptian dude is the scum of humanity, clearly.

Nice case of strawman + whataboutism you got going there, chief

 

[phanphare]

Gaza has an Egyptian border that is strictly controlled by the Egyptians. They don't want them any more than any other Arab country.

And yeah the bigger issue is how people justify this because the guy could be killed over it. If that's the case then they have no business being in the Olympics.

yeah seriously, talk about oppression

 

[SoRuffShoNuff]

this picture is fucking powerful, while the judo one is just sad. It sounds incredibly cliché but love beats hate every day.

That picture isn't more powerful than the NK regime. Her family may face huge problems back home because of that picture. Could get kicked out of the Workers Party if their family are members.

 

[Kinyou]

Regarding the selfie and possible punishment.

According to Michael Madden, a visiting scholar at the U.S. Korea Institute in Advanced International Studies at John Hopkins University, North Korea has strived towards “sports diplomacy” as part of its national policy since the 1980’s.

BBC states:

“It is one — distinctly non-politicized — way for the politically isolated North to interact with the outside world and benefit from intercultural contact and exchanges.

Sports diplomacy is one of the few available ways North Korea is able to pursue public affairs diplomacy. In fact, Hong was photographed embracing American gymnast and current Olympic gold medalist Simone Biles during an international competition in 2014.

http://nextshark.com/north-krean-lee-eun-ju-selfie-olympic-consequences/

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37030696
Apparently has North Korea als been pushing to send a united team to Olympics.


I think she'll be okay.

 

[Pusherman]

No words. This is usual anti-semetic nonsense. It starts with book recommendationw.

The book I recommended was written by a professor at Tel Aviv University.

Also, Sisi's government is not a democratically elected, representative government you guys. There's a huge disconnect behind the relationship between countries like Egypt and Israel, and the way the actual people feel towards Israel.

 

[PdotMichael]

Gaza has an Egyptian border that is strictly controlled by the Egyptians. They don't want them any more than any other Arab country.

And yeah the bigger issue is how people justify this because the guy could be killed over it. If that's the case then they have no business being in the Olympics.

Meanwhile the state heads had just a political meeting - shaking hands was part of the meeting.

 

[Condom]

He shouldn't have faced him in the first place if he really wanted to make a statement based on principle, now he is just another salty loser.

Personally I think it's counterproductive to act prejudiced to all Israelis because you are alienating potential allies and friends. Just like with any other country's citizens.

That picture isn't more powerful than the NK regime. Her family may face huge problems back home because of that picture. Could get kicked out of the Workers Party if their family are members.

Koreans see each other as one people. The disagreement is about ideology and self determination. I don't think they'll get any problems back home.

 

[BocoDragon]

Making the Olympics into a political statement against Israel?

Fine. Stay home.

You look pathetic not showing sportsmanship.

Don't gussy it up with "political struggle" gobbledegook. It is prejudiced hatred. The oldest and most primitive tribalism in the book. You look pathetic.

 

[n0razi]

Absolutely shameful

Its either that or he gets stoned to death back home.. sucks

 

[BarringGaffner]

Meh he's standing up for what he believes in, can't fault him for that. Even if he looks stupid for not showing sportsmanship.

Uhhh yes you can certainly fault someone for their beliefs.

 

[Klocker]

Although this does make you wonder whether the North Korean girl will get in any trouble from the state

It's always easier to be human when religion is not involved.... fucking religious dogma is keeping humanity uncivilized and regressed.

Time to evolve our thinking away from it... too bad I won't be around to see that, if we don't destroy ourselves first. Some religions are antiquated, keeping us in the past. Idiocy.

 

[SwolBro]

I love how we all just accept Egypt is a country where its citizens get murdered for shaking someone's hand.

accept? absolutely not but can i understand the situation that athlete was in? definitely.

 

[Jenov]

Meanwhile the state heads had just a political meeting - shaking hands was part of the meeting.

Yep, the Egyptian guy was being straight up hateful anti-semitic.

 

[wachie]

Man he lost, it would've come across better if he'd won. Now he comes across as a sore loser.

 

[Lulubop]

These dudes both look like Street Fighter characters come to life.

 

[HarryKS]

Big dudes. All round big dudes.

Watch and weep small people. Watch and weep.

 

[sikkinixx]

Surprised the dude even fought the Israeli guy. wonder how in his face he would have been had he won?

 

[IonicSnake]

Also in case you missed it, the Lebanese team blocked the door to the bus to the opening ceremony so the Israelis couldn't get on it

As a Lebanese guy this angers me, what an opportunity to rise above that shit and show the world it doesn't have to be that way, instead they do something like this.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

this picture is fucking powerful, while the judo one is just sad. It sounds incredibly cliché but love beats hate every day.

Her families probably already in a labor camp

And when she comes back, it'll turn out this is the last olympics she'll participate in.

Maybe. But NK is no joke when it comes to them doing awful thing to 'dissentors'.

 

[Xe4]

I'm not against making political statements at the Olympics. I think the black power (or really, human rights) salute at the 1968 Olypics and the Jesse Owens/Luz Long friendship in the 1936 Olympics.

I am however against a display that disparages athletes simply because of the country they come from. And I cannot in any good heart condone what Islam did. I'm sure he would not have had a good time at home if he did have good graces, so I cannot blame him, it just saddens me this is where we are in the world today.

 

[squidyj]

Nice case of strawman + whataboutism you got going there, chief

I kind of appreciate the beautiful symmetry of it with respect to discussions about palestine.

The fact you extend the actions of a government to it's citizens is just crazy, especially athletes. Fucking anti-semitism in the flesh right here.

but I thought the Israeli government was a shining beacon of democracy in the middle east. Aren't the Israeli citizens electing governments that represent their beliefs and enact policies they want?

 

[chaobreaker]

Her families probably already in a labor camp

And when she comes back, it'll turn out this is the last olympics she'll participate in.

Maybe. But NK is no joke when it comes to them doing awful thing to 'dissentors'.

I've seen North Korea escapee documentaries. I have no doubt that there will be trouble.

Well actually...

For athletes from the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK), it is an opportunity to represent the country in front of an international audience in spite of the intense pressure of expectations from home.

Claiming that Hong will face the firing squad or a life of hard labour for her selfie with Lee Eun-ju ignores the fact that she was also photographed in 2014 hugging American gymnast Simone Biles at an international competition.

You might think that by embracing an athlete of a country described as a "sworn enemy", Hong Un Jong would have incurred censure and not be permitted to participate in the Rio games.
But that didn't happen.

Basically they are treated like kings there, the dictatorship lies to everyone about their athlete's accomplishments, and at worst they deal with a stern talking to by officials.

You better believe these athlete's families would get executed or get sent to labour camps if they seek asylum though.

 

[Bishop89]

Although this does make you wonder whether the North Korean girl will get in any trouble from the state

There's this one too

The Korean examples are heartwarming.

The Egyptian/israeli one makes my blood boil

 

[PdotMichael]

I kind of appreciate the beautiful symmetry of it with respect to discussions about palestine.



but I thought the Israeli government was a shining beacon of democracy in the middle east. Aren't the Israeli citizens electing governments that represent their beliefs and enact policies they want?

Jews only exists as collective. History has sure some running jokes.

 

[Fox Mulder]

this picture is fucking powerful, while the judo one is just sad. It sounds incredibly cliché but love beats hate every day.

Until she's thrown in a re-education labor camp

 

[Audioboxer]

Meanwhile the state heads had just a political meeting - shaking hands was part of the meeting.

Well, there it is. As if all the other evidence provided of athletes showing respect wasn't enough.