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[Happosai]

Watched Parasite Dolls. Didn't know it was related to the Bubblegum Crisis. This feels like it set in different from either Bubblegum Crisis series though, but it's still a decent and short watch.

The world of animation had changed so much by 2003 for anime (removal of hand painted background, no cel painting replaced w/ digital, et al). Glad you enjoyed but although the OG OVA Bubblegum Crisis is somewhat incomplete as were many famous OVAs; it's never going to be topped. Had you written first for recommendations to something similar to that universe -- I would have recommended you watch the A.D. Police OVA as a follow-up. Total Crash is an 'okay' sequel but then there's Bubblegum Crisis Tokyo 2040. That's pure late-90's trash. Cheap animation, poor coloring, sloppily drawn characters (likely from equally sloppy model sheets), forgettable soundtrack and made to easily be outsourced. Total Crash almost lives to it's name as a decline of spin-offs, BG Crisis Tokyo 2040 dips lower. I stopped watching anime regularly in the 2000's and got burned out of it by about the year Parasite Dolls was made...2003 the titles came out so lackluster and poorly animated that I just put it up. There were still releases of older anime coming out on DVD for the first time in the early 2000's for 70's, 80's and 90's titles (which are now long oop...mostly) that were a better investment.

It's not horrible but had that idea been worth the investment to animate. I've said it in many ways and forms though: digital inking, CG or what have you - will never replicate traditional animation

 

[OmegaSupreme]

I liked Tokyo 2040 myself...

 

[Labolas]

The world of animation had changed so much by 2003 for anime (removal of hand painted background, no cel painting replaced w/ digital, et al). Glad you enjoyed but although the OG OVA Bubblegum Crisis is somewhat incomplete as were many famous OVAs; it's never going to be topped. Had you written first for recommendations to something similar to that universe -- I would have recommended you watch the A.D. Police OVA as a follow-up. Total Crash is an 'okay' sequel but then there's Bubblegum Crisis Tokyo 2040. That's pure late-90's trash. Cheap animation, poor coloring, sloppily drawn characters (likely from equally sloppy model sheets), forgettable soundtrack and made to easily be outsourced. Total Crash almost lives to it's name as a decline of spin-offs, BG Crisis Tokyo 2040 dips lower. I stopped watching anime regularly in the 2000's and got burned out of it by about the year Parasite Dolls was made...2003 the titles came out so lackluster and poorly animated that I just put it up. There were still releases of older anime coming out on DVD for the first time in the early 2000's for 70's, 80's and 90's titles (which are now long oop...mostly) that were a better investment.

It's not horrible but had that idea been worth the investment to animate. I've said it in many ways and forms though: digital inking, CG or what have you - will never replicate traditional animation

I never heard anyone call Tokyo 2040 trash. In fact its quite the opposite. Hell, some people actually prefer that the TV series over the OVA because the characters are more fleshed out and the story ends properly. I find it hard to believe that 2040 is worse than Crash or is the worst of the series any conceivable way. Crash or AD Police: To Protect and Serve are usually considered the worst of the Bubblegum Crisis related series.

 

[Happosai]

I never heard anyone call Tokyo 2040 trash. In fact its quite the opposite. Hell, some people actually prefer that the TV series over the OVA because the characters are more fleshed out and the story ends properly. I find it hard to believe that 2040 is worse than Crash or is the worst of the series any conceivable way. Crash or AD Police are usually considered the worst of the Bubblegum Crisis related series.

Call it a preference but anime took a nose dive in quality in most ways after '95. Economy was part of that but character models from 2040 would look no different from most other studios at that time. Instead of characters with realistic facial features or OG models, mid-90's anime was:

- Generally cheaply drawn which helped Korean animators or in betweeners outsourced to pick up slack
- Pointy facial structures that could nearly stab you proverbially
- Color pallettes for characters and cel shading was half of that used in an 80's or early 90's OVA. Everything as a result came out of post production looking darker and less polished
- Reuse, recycled and repeat animation in a series or OVA had doubled to that of anime a decade prior
- Writing. Even an unfinished OG Bubblegum Crisis had this down. 2040 we hadn't even fully gone into the 2000's yet here's another iteration of BC. Why? Who were they targeting?

And big question that goes back to my OP 2020 on Retro anime that I don't ask nearly enough when people 'discuss' animaton rather than void posts like:

Member: remember x,y,z series from 95,96,97,98,99,2000...?

Me: Sorta. We can talk about the technical aspects, history and quality...

Member: It was the GOAT. (End discussion)

What I'd ask people is define retro anime good and bad in productive, researched and thoughtful discussion. Ask questions like:

Was Parasite Eve or 2040 superior to it's source product? Was it classic or retro or are our attachments simply nostalgia? If it's nostalgia, does that still make it really retro?

E.G. -- People who love Season 1 of Naruto which started in the 2000's may claim it's the best retro fighting anime of all time. Really? Have they watched Kinnikuman, Hokuto No Ken TV, Yawara!, Crying Freeman, Ashito no Joe...even Ranma 1/2? What were their impressions when comparing and can they do so without a generic post about Ninja Scroll?

In short, that's why I've not been as chatty in my OP. We've had great members post in depth anslysis from an animation seat on legit retro titles get completely bulldozed by someone who'll type a single post saying something like: remember Bebop?...The best.

I've stated before too on anime in the 2000's and maybe just need to revise the 3-year old OP but I just don't see anything old, classic or retro about anime from the 2000's. I've even suggested members make a thread on 2000's anime. There's an idea.

 

[Labolas]

Call it a preference but anime took a nose dive in quality in most ways after '95. Economy was part of that but character models from 2040 would look no different from most other studios at that time. Instead of characters with realistic facial features or OG models, mid-90's anime was:

- Generally cheaply drawn which helped Korean animators or in betweeners outsourced to pick up slack
- Pointy facial structures that could nearly stab you proverbially
- Color pallettes for characters and cel shading was half of that used in an 80's or early 90's OVA. Everything as a result came out of post production looking darker and less polished
- Reuse, recycled and repeat animation in a series or OVA had doubled to that of anime a decade prior
- Writing. Even an unfinished OG Bubblegum Crisis had this down. 2040 we hadn't even fully gone into the 2000's yet here's another iteration of BC. Why? Who were they targeting?

And big question that goes back to my OP 2020 on Retro anime that I don't ask nearly enough when people 'discuss' animaton rather than void posts like:

Member: remember x,y,z series from 95,96,97,98,99,2000...?

Me: Sorta. We can talk about the technical aspects, history and quality...

Member: It was the GOAT. (End discussion)

What I'd ask people is define retro anime good and bad in productive, researched and thoughtful discussion. Ask questions like:

Was Parasite Eve or 2040 superior to it's source product? Was it classic or retro or are our attachments simply nostalgia? If it's nostalgia, does that still make it really retro?

E.G. -- People who love Season 1 of Naruto which started in the 2000's may claim it's the best retro fighting anime of all time. Really? Have they watched Kinnikuman, Hokuto No Ken TV, Yawara!, Crying Freeman, Ashito no Joe...even Ranma 1/2? What were their impressions when comparing and can they do so without a generic post about Ninja Scroll?

In short, that's why I've not been as chatty in my OP. We've had great members post in depth anslysis from an animation seat on legit retro titles get completely bulldozed by someone who'll type a single post saying something like: remember Bebop?...The best.

I've stated before too on anime in the 2000's and maybe just need to revise the 3-year old OP but I just don't see anything old, classic or retro about anime from the 2000's. I've even suggested members make a thread on 2000's anime. There's an idea.

That's fine you want to talk about the production of actual retro anime and pine about it, I have no issues with this at all. But you're making an argument that I'm not having. Most people when discussing anything are going to have a boiler plate response. Most aren't going to go into a diatribe about the history of a series they like or have nostalgia for. I don't know if I say it before but Tokyo 2040 was my introduction into the Bubblegum Crisis franchise. In 2040, we got to see more of a character's quirks and personalities than the OVA. As far as writing goes, we're going to have to agree to disagree because the writing in OVA wasn't spectacular by no means. To say the series is bad because of the animation cut corners would be just overlooking the positives the series actually has.

I have love for both OVA and tv series for different reasons.

To be honest, I said something similar the Birdy the Mighty OVA vs the TV series, so I'm not totally faultless in that regard either.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Call it a preference but anime took a nose dive in quality in most ways after '95. Economy was part of that but character models from 2040 would look no different from most other studios at that time. Instead of characters with realistic facial features or OG models, mid-90's anime was:

- Generally cheaply drawn which helped Korean animators or in betweeners outsourced to pick up slack
- Pointy facial structures that could nearly stab you proverbially
- Color pallettes for characters and cel shading was half of that used in an 80's or early 90's OVA. Everything as a result came out of post production looking darker and less polished
- Reuse, recycled and repeat animation in a series or OVA had doubled to that of anime a decade prior
- Writing. Even an unfinished OG Bubblegum Crisis had this down. 2040 we hadn't even fully gone into the 2000's yet here's another iteration of BC. Why? Who were they targeting?

And big question that goes back to my OP 2020 on Retro anime that I don't ask nearly enough when people 'discuss' animaton rather than void posts like:

Member: remember x,y,z series from 95,96,97,98,99,2000...?

Me: Sorta. We can talk about the technical aspects, history and quality...

Member: It was the GOAT. (End discussion)

What I'd ask people is define retro anime good and bad in productive, researched and thoughtful discussion. Ask questions like:

Was Parasite Eve or 2040 superior to it's source product? Was it classic or retro or are our attachments simply nostalgia? If it's nostalgia, does that still make it really retro?

E.G. -- People who love Season 1 of Naruto which started in the 2000's may claim it's the best retro fighting anime of all time. Really? Have they watched Kinnikuman, Hokuto No Ken TV, Yawara!, Crying Freeman, Ashito no Joe...even Ranma 1/2? What were their impressions when comparing and can they do so without a generic post about Ninja Scroll?

In short, that's why I've not been as chatty in my OP. We've had great members post in depth anslysis from an animation seat on legit retro titles get completely bulldozed by someone who'll type a single post saying something like: remember Bebop?...The best.

I've stated before too on anime in the 2000's and maybe just need to revise the 3-year old OP but I just don't see anything old, classic or retro about anime from the 2000's. I've even suggested members make a thread on 2000's anime. There's an idea.

It's your thread and you can set the guidelines but I find your cut off date odd. I mentioned ghost in the shell stand alone complex earlier. That's one year outside of the range you demand. It's still over 20 years old. How is that not retro enough? You're not even 40 yet are you? Bebop is 25 years old. You were a kid when that came out. Plenty retro imo. Wanting deeper discussion is fine but more of us might contribute more if you'd loosen up a bit on your timeline.

 

[Happosai]

It's your thread and you can set the guidelines but I find your cut off date odd. I mentioned ghost in the shell stand alone complex earlier. That's one year outside of the range you demand. It's still over 20 years old. How is that not retro enough? You're not even 40 yet are you? Bebop is 25 years old. You were a kid when that came out. Plenty retro imo. Wanting deeper discussion is fine but more of us might contribute more if you'd loosen up a bit on your timeline.

I shouldn't have to put a cut off. There are a myriad of titles which are seldom if ever discussed from the late 60's - early 90's. OP originally was an Off-Topic discussion which started with a timeline. I'll revise it but again. If we need a thread defining retro and why a show from the 2000's that's still fresh in our demographics memory holds more toward titles pre-digital; that's really the cut off. I can talk the good...mostly bad on later 90's anime but the medium of animation was all mostly done by hand vs. 2000's which as a whole went to digital around 03/04.

Create a new thread.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

I shouldn't have to put a cut off. There are a myriad of titles which are seldom if ever discussed from the late 60's - early 90's. OP originally was an Off-Topic discussion which started with a timeline. I'll revise it but again. If we need a thread defining retro and why a show from the 2000's that's still fresh in our demographics memory holds more toward titles pre-digital; that's really the cut off. I can talk the good...mostly bad on later 90's anime but the medium of animation was all mostly done by hand vs. 2000's which as a whole went to digital around 03/04.

Create a new thread.

No. I won't. The traffic here currently doesn't support yet another anime thread. If your entire definition for retro relies on whether or not cg was involved I have no further interest in participating in this thread. If you want to talk about anime made before you were even alive knock yourself out. I'd rather talk about things from my youth that I actually saw. That I bought on VHS. Or later dvd. In any case. Adios.

 

[Happosai]

No. I won't. The traffic here currently doesn't support yet another anime thread. If your entire definition for retro relies on whether or not cg was involved I have no further interest in participating in this thread. If you want to talk about anime made before you were even alive knock yourself out. I'd rather talk about things from my youth that I actually saw. That I bought on VHS. Or later dvd. In any case. Adios.

Cheers.

By the way, AlteredForms among others in the past have created great Off-Topic anime threads that were universal toward any/all commentary related. Ask him if he was warned not to create his thread due to traffic?

If someone made a retro TV series thread which targeted an audience that preferred 50's Twilight Zone era vs. the 80's reboot; I doubt anyone would thread lock for creating one for both sides. This is GAF not Reset and mods will allow it provided it's not violating any clear site policy. Anyway, you're free to discuss but let's not derail this thread further. Thanks!

 

[AlteredForms]

Cheers.

By the way, AlteredForms among others in the past have created great Off-Topic anime threads that were universal toward any/all commentary related. Ask him if he was warned not to create his thread due to traffic?

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/animeaddictsassociated-of-neogaf-top-three-selections.1641926/

I'm honest when saying that I had little to no idea about the anime community on NeoGAF as I rarely check out the communities tab. There were some users who had anime avatars and I did take them into consideration during the original creation phase. My thread took off with around 150 posts from maybe 50-70 different people and thousands of views . Prior to that I didn't have the same reaction and interest on my other ones so it's clear the community is strong, but I'm with OmegaSupreme on this one to keep things cohesive within a singular thread.

 

[AJUMP23]

Recommend me some good English dub retro anime.

 

[RavageX]

I've been on a recent kick with retro/older. By that I mean Some 70's but mostly 80s and 90s. Having a hard time finding the stuff now. Not really looking for the most popular, but some special things I might have missed. Any suggestions on WHERE I could go about looking? I'm more of a movie guy than a LONG SERIES. Outside of a few shows, anything pushing over 100 episodes I lose interest. City Hunter, while I loved....kinda did me in, lol.

 

[Happosai]

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/animeaddictsassociated-of-neogaf-top-three-selections.1641926/

I'm honest when saying that I had little to no idea about the anime community on NeoGAF as I rarely check out the communities tab. There were some users who had anime avatars and I did take them into consideration during the original creation phase. My thread took off with around 150 posts and thousands of views from maybe 50-70 different people. Prior to that I didn't have the same reaction and interest on my other ones so it's clear the community is strong, but I'm with OmegaSupreme on this one to keep things cohesive within a singular thread.

Well, my point was that if 2000's fans are a niche; it deserves in Off-Topic thread. Maybe not a Community if no one will own up to that but there are many members here who'd discuss. I've already edited the OP as of last night to set the record straight too. When I started this OP 3-years ago, I encouraged small talk, fluff and to extend outward because I knew it may drive conversation.

However, I also saw more potential as a Community thread where the topic of Retro Anime could be discussed in depth without just a lazy, "That __ was cool." There's a whole lot more to say. It wasn't fair to those who'd come here and post something detailed and/or informative and just have their posts get ignored. Even I myself pushed to bring this thread back on track last October and the same member we're referencing derailed with some 2000's title.

TL;DR, 2000's is a great topic of anime separate from Anime/Manga (which focused on anime from the past 5-years and such) and Retro which is intended to discuss an era of past animation drawn by hand. 2000's was neither but is super popular. Someone ought to create the thread. If it gets only a few comments. So what? That should answer the question. Either it'll be a hit or people have forgotten 2000's anime like myself.

Recommend me some good English dub retro anime.

I'm a subs guy myself but dubs were something else. They never really got 'good' but there are those special ones (1)which maybe I just find special, (2)some where the dub actors put on an above average performance and (3) those which were so awful they became somewhat legendary.

1. Special for a certain nostalgia. U.S. Distributors like Streamline, AnimeEigo (to a lesser extent), Harmony Gold and a few others started introducing anime OVAs & movies in the early 90's to Americans...who didn't know what the world anime was. The thought that no one was going to buy this foreign product if they kept the original dialogue not only lead to dubbing but also unnecessary localization. Localization would sometimes even remove Japanese names from characters like (e.g. -- Keikou ends up getting a name like Katie). Samurai Pizza Cats was terrible. They claim to have not had a script (which may be true) but their entire dub is a ficitious English dialogue which mocks the show. I don't even know where they came up with the ridiculous English name either as it was called: Kyatto Ninden Teyandee (Cat Ninja Legend Teyandee). So, they could have localized to something closer like Cat Ninja Legend...DVDs are nearly oop but you may be able to find it streaming if you're interested.
During this localization early era of dubs a few I'd recommend:
- Wicked City
- Lensman: The Movie (check Youtube as it's not on any major streaming platform)
- Lily C.A.T.
- Golgo 13: The Professional (if you're daring)

2. Above average English dubs. I'll keep this shorter. Dubs were super common by the late-90's/early 2000's. Early 2000's saw publishers like Urban Vision, A.D.V., CPM, Pioneer, Funimation and others pushing to dub older anime from decades prior. The OG Dragon Ball from the mid-80's had all 5 seasons dubbed 'okay' but the dub censors a lot of Roshi's best lines. So, I'm still going to say that if you're going to watch the full 5 seasons...subs are the way to go. However, Funimation did a halfway decent job dubbing the four seasons of Yu Yu Hakusho. My main gripe in 'English casting' was Kuwabara. He's 14-years old and the English actor pulls a 50-year old chain smoker gruff voice. Other mentions which are okay to listen to dubbed:

- Bastard!!
- Ranma 1/2 TV & OVAs
- Photon: The Idiot Menace

3. The awful. That'd be the bulk but some went above and beyond. There was the legendary Fandora dub which was so bad...the cheapskate mail order operators who made it...basically tried to hide this and blast it out of history. Someone had the VHS and uploaded some clips though...



Dishonorably mentions of why anime shouldn't be dubbed:

- Dark Cat OVA
- Devil Man OVAs (2)
- Some 30 episodes of Hokuto no Ken were dubbed...why??
- Cyber City Oedo OVA
- Berserk TV was dubbed...Media Blasters and just goofy / out of place

 

[Happosai]

I've been on a recent kick with retro/older. By that I mean Some 70's but mostly 80s and 90s. Having a hard time finding the stuff now. Not really looking for the most popular, but some special things I might have missed. Any suggestions on WHERE I could go about looking? I'm more of a movie guy than a LONG SERIES. Outside of a few shows, anything pushing over 100 episodes I lose interest. City Hunter, while I loved....kinda did me in, lol.

OVAs work when a series is too long. Although the list of series from the 70's, 80's and lesser 90's (as this decade saw less of those mega series and more 26-episode shots).

Movies which are relatively interesting for a watch. Most are oop so a streaming site or YouTube are your best option for viewing:

- Angel's Egg
- Riding Bean
- Fight! Iczer One
- Megazone23
- Armored Trooper Votoms
- Dancouga
- Outlanders & Capricorn if you enjoyed it as a follow up
- The Laughing Target (a nice creepy adaptation of a Rumiko Takahashi short series)
- Crying Freeman
- Gall Force
- Gunbuster
- Baoh: The Visitor (be warned as this one is a bit gory)
- Crusher Joe the Movie and OVA
- Cobra (the original)
- Maryuu Senki
- Goku Midnight Eye
- Riki-Oh (2 parts)
- Project A-Ko
- Cyber City Oedo (watch the subbed version...dub is awful)
- Devil Man OVAs (again, for the sake of your sanity...don't watch the dub)


The list of OVAs is immense and I could keep going. Gunbuster just got a U.S. release on blu-ray only last week. The first N.A. release on blu-ray that I'm aware of. You may want to pick that up. It's on Rightstuf but you'll get it faster if you buy from Amazon.

 

[Labolas]

Looking back on the Battle Angel ova. Man, I really appreciated how well it was transition to manga to anime. Really nailed the look of the manga and Alita even though they changed a few things. Too bad we'll never get another anime adaptation.

 

[Happosai]

Looking back on the Battle Angel ova. Man, I really appreciated how well it was transition to manga to anime. Really nailed the look of the manga and Alita even though they changed a few things. Too bad we'll never get another anime adaptation.

The transition worked well even though it was really push & shove. The OVAs were demanded before the manga had even been completed. Editorial focus was difficult. Both editor & the animation producers of the OVA anticipated it could launch into series format. However, the reality was there wasn't enough budget flowing in by the time they started animation production on the 2nd OVA and it cut short. Although from a legacy standpoint, most in Japan remember the manga Gunmm better than the OVA; the OVA captivated the Western audience and did evoke that question: why was it so short? Why did it not run for a few more episodes or serve as a pilot for a series? The same reason as the Dirty Pair: OVA (which was somewhat a nudge to relaunch a sequel to the OG series from the 1980's), same as Gunbuster which you can see how much the money drained in the last episode by the decline in animation tools of implementation and the aforementioned Bubblegum Crisis OVA. They all share one commonality. They developed a much higher demand after their initial VHS or LaserDisc release; yet they weren't budgeted enough well toward a completed product. If we entertain OVAs serving as a pilot card toward a series (speaking retrospectively); then they'd need to have an arc signifying to TV networks and accountants that the investment towards a series or even a movie sequel would be worth it.

The sad reality...
90's Japan didn't have that money to pump into a project (especially OVAs which were often released with an internal production unlike how TV series are produced & managed) that they felt would fail if the money barely there for a 2nd OVA. I've always felt like the seldom heard of 'Sword of Truth' OVA had series potential. However, the production issues were so big that you get left with a gaping plot hole, no preceding spin-offs and it left such a bad taste that Dezaki even had his name redacted from the credits. It's on YouTube and short if you're willing to invest the time. You'll see how it did have some potential despite some similarities in an emotionless protag similar to Golgo 13 and pacing issues. You watch the little they did make and really start asking, "what happens now?" But, due to much of the above...we never got the answers. That's why it's important to archive these films. Whether you've invested previously in a VHS release, LD, DVD or blu-ray. When that's not an option...most of these have little licensing to say you can't download them to preserve them. Come another 10-years and people from the East or West won't even know what an OVA was because physical video will be dead (if not sooner). For those of us who preserved this material; we pass it onto future generations so they may be cultured on how great Eastern film was as a medium. In time, retro anime will be only remembered by big names like Miyazaki or Toriyama. What about the myriad of others? They'll just be a memory...if that.

 

[Labolas]

The transition worked well even though it was really push & shove. The OVAs were demanded before the manga had even been completed. Editorial focus was difficult. Both editor & the animation producers of the OVA anticipated it could launch into series format. However, the reality was there wasn't enough budget flowing in by the time they started animation production on the 2nd OVA and it cut short. Although from a legacy standpoint, most in Japan remember the manga Gunmm better than the OVA; the OVA captivated the Western audience and did evoke that question: why was it so short? Why did it not run for a few more episodes or serve as a pilot for a series? The same reason as the Dirty Pair: OVA (which was somewhat a nudge to relaunch a sequel to the OG series from the 1980's), same as Gunbuster which you can see how much the money drained in the last episode by the decline in animation tools of implementation and the aforementioned Bubblegum Crisis OVA. They all share one commonality. They developed a much higher demand after their initial VHS or LaserDisc release; yet they weren't budgeted enough well toward a completed product. If we entertain OVAs serving as a pilot card toward a series (speaking retrospectively); then they'd need to have an arc signifying to TV networks and accountants that the investment towards a series or even a movie sequel would be worth it.

The sad reality...
90's Japan didn't have that money to pump into a project (especially OVAs which were often released with an internal production unlike how TV series are produced & managed) that they felt would fail if the money barely there for a 2nd OVA. I've always felt like the seldom heard of 'Sword of Truth' OVA had series potential. However, the production issues were so big that you get left with a gaping plot hole, no preceding spin-offs and it left such a bad taste that Dezaki even had his name redacted from the credits. It's on YouTube and short if you're willing to invest the time. You'll see how it did have some potential despite some similarities in an emotionless protag similar to Golgo 13 and pacing issues. You watch the little they did make and really start asking, "what happens now?" But, due to much of the above...we never got the answers. That's why it's important to archive these films. Whether you've invested previously in a VHS release, LD, DVD or blu-ray. When that's not an option...most of these have little licensing to say you can't download them to preserve them. Come another 10-years and people from the East or West won't even know what an OVA was because physical video will be dead (if not sooner). For those of us who preserved this material; we pass it onto future generations so they may be cultured on how great Eastern film was as a medium. In time, retro anime will be only remembered by big names like Miyazaki or Toriyama. What about the myriad of others? They'll just be a memory...if that.

Yeah, I remember if I'm not wrong that Kishiro (creator of Battle Angel Alita) mentioning that the OVAs were supposed to continue into a tv format similarly how You're Under Arrest OVAs did, which btw were fantastic.

(fucking sucks that there's no way to get a physical copy of OVAs or the TV series without putting a hurt to your wallet)
And for sure, the OVAs of Gunnm were more popular in the west as a lot of folks here, including myself, this was their first real foray into the anime and manga fandom. 3x3 Eyes is another example of this as well. And I remember the 90s ( the mid-90s to be precise) were hard times for a lot of anime studios for budgetary reasons. Gainax had trouble finishing Nadia and Eva in particular.

That's the fuck up thing about entertainment in general though, everything is becoming digital and it's getting harder to get physical dvds/vhs/blurays. As I mentioned earlier there's no real option to get something like YUA without spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars and even then you still can't get all of YUA in physical as a lot of it has disappear from the market and got simply discontinued. This is why I always sided with having physical because you actually own it.

 

[ValiantTraveler]

Instead of watching Demon Slayer or what not, I've been watching some old classics with my brother:
- Hokuto no Ken 2: first time I watch the sequel series. The highlight is defintiely a bunch of characters who are super charismatic and often suffer tragic fates. It doesn't get more manly than that. Shout out to Shachi's character who underwent an impressive evolution. Too bad the big villain of this part is nowhere as good a villain as Raoh.
- Saint Seiya: first time watching the Asgard and Poseidon arcs in Japanese subs. It's nice to recognize some voice actors back when they were young, like Ryo Horikawa (Shun in Saint Seiya, and Vegeta in DB) or Sho Hayami (Aizen in Bleach). The soundtrack stands at the epitome of all music produced by mankind in the 80s. Plus some really impressive fights and elegant character designs. They don't make them like this anymore.
- Dragon Ball Kai - Cell Saga: I never get tired of rewatching DBZ. The Kai format fixes the pacing issues of the original series. I'm still impressed by some of the fight choreographies and have found a new appreciation for Toriyama's ability to come up with twist after twist. Norio Wakamoto clearly had a lot of fun voicing Cell. Vegeta's VA, Ryo Horikawa, gives him the charisma and presence of a true prince, something that his voices in other languages lack.
- Yu Yu Hakusho: I never watched every single episode of that show back in the 2000s, so I'm discovering some events and fights right now. Very solid production values and some vey well thought fights. I'm sometimes surprised by how dark YYH gets. Yusuke is a fantastic main character.

 

[Happosai]

Yeah, I remember if I'm not wrong that Kishiro (creator of Battle Angel Alita) mentioning that the OVAs were supposed to continue into a tv format similarly how You're Under Arrest OVAs did, which btw were fantastic.

(fucking sucks that there's no way to get a physical copy of OVAs or the TV series without putting a hurt to your wallet)
And for sure, the OVAs of Gunnm were more popular in the west as a lot of folks here, including myself, this was their first real foray into the anime and manga fandom. 3x3 Eyes is another example of this as well. And I remember the 90s ( the mid-90s to be precise) were hard times for a lot of anime studios for budgetary reasons. Gainax had trouble finishing Nadia and Eva in particular.

That's the fuck up thing about entertainment in general though, everything is becoming digital and it's getting harder to get physical dvds/vhs/blurays. As I mentioned earlier there's no real option to get something like YUA without spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars and even then you still can't get all of YUA in physical as a lot of it has disappear from the market and got simply discontinued. This is why I always sided with having physical because you actually own it.

Kishiro wanted that and it did happen as mentioned, just not for Gunnm. However, those two episodes we did get are still great & capture a character model-type that has seldom been used since. 3X3 has sorta faded from memory though unfortunately for most. The manga did well enough and I had a Super Famicom video game that came out around the time of the OVA. By the way, trivia but if you had the Pioneer DVD release...first printing came with the stylized '3X3 Eyes' hindi symbol as a stick-on tattoo. Kinda weird extra but I found that out one day when going through my 'inventory.'

About You're Under Arrest TV & OVA...unfortunately I've only seen bits and pieces of either/or via streaming 3rd-party. I put off buying the DVDs when they were in print and the way they were labeled too made it confusing. Anyway, those are all oop and I fear that You're Under Arrest may be one of those IPs that is having licensing issues. Otherwise, it had a relatively popular Western audience and like Ghost Sweeper Mikami (another forgotten series of the early 90's); it's overdue for a blu-ray release. I really hope Discotek has worked with that. Come to think of it...seems like 3X3 OVA has been oop for a bit too.

Instead of watching Demon Slayer or what not, I've been watching some old classics with my brother:
- Hokuto no Ken 2: first time I watch the sequel series. The highlight is defintiely a bunch of characters who are super charismatic and often suffer tragic fates. It doesn't get more manly than that. Shout out to Shachi's character who underwent an impressive evolution. Too bad the big villain of this part is nowhere as good a villain as Raoh.
- Saint Seiya: first time watching the Asgard and Poseidon arcs in Japanese subs. It's nice to recognize some voice actors back when they were young, like Ryo Horikawa (Shun in Saint Seiya, and Vegeta in DB) or Sho Hayami (Aizen in Bleach). The soundtrack stands at the epitome of all music produced by mankind in the 80s. Plus some really impressive fights and elegant character designs. They don't make them like this anymore.
- Dragon Ball Kai - Cell Saga: I never get tired of rewatching DBZ. The Kai format fixes the pacing issues of the original series. I'm still impressed by some of the fight choreographies and have found a new appreciation for Toriyama's ability to come up with twist after twist. Norio Wakamoto clearly had a lot of fun voicing Cell. Vegeta's VA, Ryo Horikawa, gives him the charisma and presence of a true prince, something that his voices in other languages lack.
- Yu Yu Hakusho: I never watched every single episode of that show back in the 2000s, so I'm discovering some events and fights right now. Very solid production values and some vey well thought fights. I'm sometimes surprised by how dark YYH gets. Yusuke is a fantastic main character.

HnK2 careful there...I'm on my first round of watching HnK1 with my wife and nearly ready to finish. I bought the blu-ray set back in early January and it's been a wild ride. There was a lot of negativity around repetition in the first series and such. Toei's in between writing & characters were somewhat forgettable but Hara & Buronson's remained consist and well developed throughout. There's a lot to be said about the HnK TV series. HnK2 I'm going to get to once I finish the final Raoh episodes of part 1 shortly. I've been taking mini-breaks to watch a few backlogged OVAs from the 80's. How are you watching it? Streaming, DVD, blu-ray? Please no spoilers as I've never seen part 2 as of yet but the blu-ray has it on the 3rd disc...so we will see and I'm ready (albeit like 36-years late lol)

Saint Seiya is one that my wife grew up with as it was marketing heavy in the early 80's in Mexico. Unsure why the OG series didn't get handled well in North America (U.S. & Canada). We have another very unique style of characters which seemed to have been lost to the 1970's. No one really picked that character model style for alternate titles that were not spin-off, prequel or the like. The coloring was also really done well too and they had their moment but key animation was implemented at the right time too. The Japanese VAs of the 70's & 80's really were something else too. They'd study their characters very well from source material before auditioning the voices in most cases. With localized dubs...you lose this because the process of ADR direction, casting and overall skill of 'dub actors' has always been less-than spectacular. Did the soundtrack ever get a modern remaster or is it still the mono? The only version I've been come across was a simulated stereo mix. However, the source audio was still mono.

Going to be honest but I've never fully watch DBZ as many can read back. I watched OG Dragon Ball but stopped there. I was told that the series starts to fall of a repetitive tedious cliff in Cell Saga and was unaware that Kai had fixed this. Then again, you'd have to realize that Toriyama had probably tried to stop writing long before they even got to Cell. That's why his pens for the Dragon Ball franchise have been nearly dry ever since DBZ ended. I've asked a second opinion on Kai to see if it's worth investing in. However, you mention they fixed pacing issues. I was told there was some censoring and they 'revised' the audio mix from OG DBZ. I also recall there were issues with casting the VAs too for Kai. That's understandable given the originals were pretty old. In fact, all 3 anime I we're referencing have JP VAs who are either aged into retirement...and some have already passed away.

Yu Yu Hakusho we have some common ground. I watched the first arc about 24-years ago before Funimation had acquisition the show. First I saw was a fan subbing and that was incomplete. Last year (ironically) I just happened to get all 4 blu-ray sets as a gift from my wife. I sold the DVD sets decades ago and was happy to get a couple steelbook too. So, I'm going to start fresh and dive into the JP language version but with the newer subs. I've heard the dub and they really screwed up Kuwabara. Then again, this was Funimation and the fact that they seem to not understand casting characters the way they're done in Japan. Not sure what they were thinking but Kuwabara's 14-years old and the dub VA makes him sound like a 50-some year old trucker from South Carolina lol. By the way, avoid the OVA (mislabeled as a movie) and the movie if you haven't already. The OVA highlights how poor writing, a rushed recycled scripting, poor timing and signifies that they really weren't investing the time or money into as they did with most of the series. The movie has better animation, iconic background artwork, top notch soundtrack...but it's slower than freakin' dirt. If the movie was the first anyone had seen of YYH; it'd be easy to skip the series if that's what they had to look foward too. I left the movie back in the VHS era physically but did try to rewatch a couple years back via digital stream...and my impressions haven't changed. Oh, they tried to dub that movie too but it was pre-Funimation (possible Manga Entertainment??) and screwed up the roles again. There was a DVD release that had the JP dialogue but they messed up the framing (it's stretch 4:3 cropped 16:9 FYI and oop).

 

[ValiantTraveler]

Happosai I watch on a pirate site
HnK2 has much better pacing than the first series. I think it has no fillers. Very much worth watching if you enjoyed the first series. It’s more of the same essentially.

I don’t know about the audio of Saint Seiya tbh. Pretty sure that that brand of character design carried over in Kurama’s chara design in YYH. Shingo Araki, who handled the chara designs in the Saint Seiya anime, akso worked on a lot of other series with a more or less similar chara design style, going back to Lady Oscar, Grendizer, and even before. It’s such a shame modern anime doesn’t carry that legacy.

I did a quick research on DB Kai and it looks like all dialogues were re-recorded! Both Japanese and English! I wasn’t aware of that! I don’t feel that the Japanese VAs aged at all in their performances. As for the music, the original soundtrack is reused. While repetitive, I don’t mind it. I enjoy how nostalgic it makes me feel. Haven’t noticed any censoring at all. The pacing is pretty smooth, same as it is in the manga. For example, on more than one occasion a fight between two characters will only last for one episode. Honestly I can’t go back to the original series now.
I’m not sure at what point Toriyama started to think about ending DB, but the Cell arc has some of the best DB moments. His characters and writing are way better than what the people behind DBS produced.

I know nothing about the YYH film and OAV. Wasn’t there a new OAV a few years ago?

 

[Happosai]

Happosai I watch on a pirate site
HnK2 has much better pacing than the first series. I think it has no fillers. Very much worth watching if you enjoyed the first series. It’s more of the same essentially.

I don’t know about the audio of Saint Seiya tbh. Pretty sure that that brand of character design carried over in Kurama’s chara design in YYH. Shingo Araki, who handled the chara designs in the Saint Seiya anime, akso worked on a lot of other series with a more or less similar chara design style, going back to Lady Oscar, Grendizer, and even before. It’s such a shame modern anime doesn’t carry that legacy.

I did a quick research on DB Kai and it looks like all dialogues were re-recorded! Both Japanese and English! I wasn’t aware of that! I don’t feel that the Japanese VAs aged at all in their performances. As for the music, the original soundtrack is reused. While repetitive, I don’t mind it. I enjoy how nostalgic it makes me feel. Haven’t noticed any censoring at all. The pacing is pretty smooth, same as it is in the manga. For example, on more than one occasion a fight between two characters will only last for one episode. Honestly I can’t go back to the original series now.
I’m not sure at what point Toriyama started to think about ending DB, but the Cell arc has some of the best DB moments. His characters and writing are way better than what the people behind DBS produced.

I know nothing about the YYH film and OAV. Wasn’t there a new OAV a few years ago?

I wouldn't post that Valient.

We do see that in Kurama; except the adaptive character model a more 90's homogenized look was Kurama than to that of the aforementioned 70's model sheets used. It's incredible that neither the author or those like Araki were ever much emulated beyond the early 90's. Even when they attempted the horrible YYH movie, they were unable to get storyboards and character models reminiscent of the TV series. This was somewhat deliberate too as they wanted a theatrical style to be used and also due to the ever changing generic look of anime toward the mid-later 90's. Modern anime is only following the pattern of a franchised product which was what later 90's anime became. The only time you see these older models attempted in modern anime is when it's an already existing IP that they're concerned with changing such as Dragonball Super. They certainly could go for a non-80's/90's Toriyama character model but that'd lead to an uproar.

I think some of the OG VAs were actually...dead. So, maybe recheck the list of actors first or maybe I'm confusing it with something similar. There were a lot of audio issues and that too was no mistake. They had the opportunity to pull the source but I've heard many theories/excuses as to why this wasn't done. There's a hint that one of the negatives had a mono track actually slapped together with the film reel; which was uncommon and meant they couldn't pull it off for an isolated remaster. Or they just wanted to screw around as this is not new either. Toriyama I believe was ready to end DBZ on the 3rd arc but it was making him a vaster fortune and he had enough staff to do very little other than provide 'story' material. That wasn't too hard since they weren't reinventing anything, really.

Well, with regard toward time investment you may take my word for it but the YYH OVA is on YouTube in both OG dialogue and dubbed; no more piracy. It's sometimes mislabled as YYH: The movie but given the 30-minute runtime...you'll know it's not a movie and it's pretty awful. You'd have to ask why Funimation bought that and yet left the movie untouched.

I'm unaware of anything modern being done with YYH. Meaning, post 90's. But, it was popular and has many nostalgia fans...they probably did.

 

[Happosai]

I'll have some news on a recent retro purchase coming soon. In the meantime, enjoy this original inking I made earlier today...

 

[Happosai]

On RightStuf & Amazon now! Voted in the eventual retro anime blu-ray releases (posted late 2020) in the #3 spot...Gunbuster!!
If you don't have it -- it's been nearly 35-years since the OVA released. Time to pick it up. My wife bought it for me.

Which format do you think fared the best previously (Gunbuster LD, VHS, JP blu-ray or DVD releases prior to this)? ranmafan Space Runaway Valonquar lachesis kunonabi

 

[ranmafan]

On RightStuf & Amazon now! Voted in the eventual retro anime blu-ray releases (posted late 2020) in the #3 spot...Gunbuster!!
If you don't have it -- it's been nearly 35-years since the OVA released. Time to pick it up. My wife bought it for me.

Which format do you think fared the best previously (Gunbuster LD, VHS, JP blu-ray or DVD releases prior to this)? ranmafan Space Runaway Valonquar lachesis kunonabi

Well I’ve had my copy for a while but still haven’t gotten to it yet, darn Zelda taking too much time. But planning on finally watching this week so I hope to be able to get my thoughts in on it then. If I go by the trailers on the other blurays, it’s going to look spectacular.

I think I’ll make this an opportunity to start a summer anime watching fest. Mostly retro of course. Start with Gunbuster, then work my way through Votoms, Galgaigar, a gundam series or two (perhaps V or G), and Utena among other shows (I’ve never got to watch the last ten episode of utena when I watched the series over twenty years ago. Time to fix that)

 

[Doom85]

Toriyama I believe was ready to end DBZ on the 3rd arc but it was making him a vaster fortune and he had enough staff to do very little other than provide 'story' material.

From my understanding, there’s been a lot of rumors taken as fact, misinformation (possibly bad translating of interviews) spread around, etc. that I feel there’s no substantial evidence if Toriyama wanted to end it earlier than it ended or not.

My personal feelings are even if he never stated it publicly, I feel the Buu Saga lacked the passion his other arcs did. Even if Toriyama never planned a story out, he was generally good at making sure events and character transformations had relevance. In the Buu Saga, so many moments and transformations either made little to no impact to the story. Videl’s introduction, Spopovich being set up as an asshole for Gohan to defeat, Vegeta’s sacrifice, the Mystic transformation, both versions of fusion, etc. none of it really mattered in the end and the only truly relevant factors were Goku, Vegeta, the Spirit Bomb technique, and Mr. Satan’s character development.

This was made worse by Buu himself, whose transformations differed from Frieza and Cell, as they were essentially a different personality each time whereas Frieza and Cell never changed their general behavior through their transformations despite appearance/voice alterations. It’s as if Toriyama didn’t even know what he wanted the final villain to be like so he just kept switching it with little rhyme or reason.

Again, this is just speculation on my part. AFAIK, no one has ever provided a quote from Toriyama saying he wanted to end it earlier than it did. As for Super and such, from my understanding he saw the live action Dragonball Evolution and basically hated the idea of that potentially being the final release of anything DB, so he made the Battle of Gods movie, then Resurrection F, and those became the basis of the first two arcs of Super. Toriyama gave both the Super mangaka and Toei studio general summaries of the next few arcs along with some specific notes and such up to the Universe Survival arc. In the manga, the Moro arc and the arcs that followed are all 100% Toyotarou, the Super mangaka, with seemingly no more involvement from Toriyama. Funny enough, when it comes to the manga, I’ve heard the Moro arc is generally the best received of the Super arcs, though I’ve heard more mixed feelings towards the arc that followed, not sure about beyond that.

 

[Happosai]

Well I’ve had my copy for a while but still haven’t gotten to it yet, darn Zelda taking too much time. But planning on finally watching this week so I hope to be able to get my thoughts in on it then. If I go by the trailers on the other blurays, it’s going to look spectacular.

I think I’ll make this an opportunity to start a summer anime watching fest. Mostly retro of course. Start with Gunbuster, then work my way through Votoms, Galgaigar, a gundam series or two (perhaps V or G), and Utena among other shows (I’ve never got to watch the last ten episode of utena when I watched the series over twenty years ago. Time to fix that)

I'd like to see how well the release is selling in Japan. I feel you too -- TotK is nightly but my wife's taking a shot at it.

I'd really like you to give a personal synopsis or review on Galgaigar. That's one of those anime titles which I've read about but just need an excuse to buy (other than it going oop lol). Votoms is something else too. Check to see if they have the Discotek release still available at a decent price. It's not oop yet to my knowledge but the price has been gradually increasing. I lost track of Gundam after Mobile Suit lol...then again, I'm very out of touch.

I would like to hear your take on Utena. I'm just taking a wild guess that you haven't watched it since the 90's or early 2000's when it was being handled out in many early anime video circles. It's still fresh in my memory but you may be disappointed that it didn't age that well. We all have a different perception and maybe you'll catch something in it you didn't noticed 20-years back.

I'm on a fantasy binge from 80's - early 90's titles. Mostly OVAs and have plenty to discuss on that. I'm about 7 obscure titles in and just finished a 4-part OVA Maju senshi Luna Varuga (fansubbed; ADV had a very limited VHS release & the subs were off). There was some effort to introduce it to a Western audience but once I elaborate on this (which will have spoilers) but, it's interesting to say the least.

I believe we'll both have our own reviews to write on Gunbuster once we complete. By the way, I added 3 additional choices to the poll at the top of the page. Any suggestions for far back series which have been neglected to have been release for which reason or the other. I forgot to add Dominion Tank Police & New Dominion Tank Police. It's a dream but I'd really like if they threw a double bill release of Outlanders with Capricorn as an extra. Wishful thinking though.

 

[Happosai]

From my understanding, there’s been a lot of rumors taken as fact, misinformation (possibly bad translating of interviews) spread around, etc. that I feel there’s no substantial evidence if Toriyama wanted to end it earlier than it ended or not.

My personal feelings are even if he never stated it publicly, I feel the Buu Saga lacked the passion his other arcs did. Even if Toriyama never planned a story out, he was generally good at making sure events and character transformations had relevance. In the Buu Saga, so many moments and transformations either made little to no impact to the story. Videl’s introduction, Spopovich being set up as an asshole for Gohan to defeat, Vegeta’s sacrifice, the Mystic transformation, both versions of fusion, etc. none of it really mattered in the end and the only truly relevant factors were Goku, Vegeta, the Spirit Bomb technique, and Mr. Satan’s character development.

This was made worse by Buu himself, whose transformations differed from Frieza and Cell, as they were essentially a different personality each time whereas Frieza and Cell never changed their general behavior through their transformations despite appearance/voice alterations. It’s as if Toriyama didn’t even know what he wanted the final villain to be like so he just kept switching it with little rhyme or reason.

Again, this is just speculation on my part. AFAIK, no one has ever provided a quote from Toriyama saying he wanted to end it earlier than it did. As for Super and such, from my understanding he saw the live action Dragonball Evolution and basically hated the idea of that potentially being the final release of anything DB, so he made the Battle of Gods movie, then Resurrection F, and those became the basis of the first two arcs of Super. Toriyama gave both the Super mangaka and Toei studio general summaries of the next few arcs along with some specific notes and such up to the Universe Survival arc. In the manga, the Moro arc and the arcs that followed are all 100% Toyotarou, the Super mangaka, with seemingly no more involvement from Toriyama. Funny enough, when it comes to the manga, I’ve heard the Moro arc is generally the best received of the Super arcs, though I’ve heard more mixed feelings towards the arc that followed, not sure about beyond that.

Your speculation is likely more accurate than mine. All I know is that he really wanted this to end. We also need to understand Toriyama was still providing story but he had an entire staff to help him with completion. That's standard with most larger manga projects. I believe it was a contractual commitment and he did fulfill it.

One thing that we are well aware of is that he had nothing to do with GT or beyond. Super has his name on the cover but he pitched a basic arc and has other artists & writers doing that work. Imagine being Toriyama anticipated Dragon Ball would be written and continue similarly to Dr. Slump. I don't think he ever thought he'd invest over 12-years of his life working with the IP.

Not anime but manga; on topic with Toriyama...you should really check out (if you haven't) Toriyama Akira Marusaku Gekijo (Akira Toriyama's Manga Theater). All of the one-shot mangas and some additional overarching was included in the three volumes. I always think of the manga series as "forgotten Toriyama." Trust me, you'll enjoy reading it.

 

[kunonabi]

On RightStuf & Amazon now! Voted in the eventual retro anime blu-ray releases (posted late 2020) in the #3 spot...Gunbuster!!
If you don't have it -- it's been nearly 35-years since the OVA released. Time to pick it up. My wife bought it for me.

Which format do you think fared the best previously (Gunbuster LD, VHS, JP blu-ray or DVD releases prior to this)? ranmafan Space Runaway Valonquar lachesis kunonabi

I only had the VHS tapes but any release without the original score basically doesn't exist to me.

 

[Doom85]

Your speculation is likely more accurate than mine. All I know is that he really wanted this to end. We also need to understand Toriyama was still providing story but he had an entire staff to help him with completion. That's standard with most larger manga projects. I believe it was a contractual commitment and he did fulfill it.

One thing that we are well aware of is that he had nothing to do with GT or beyond. Super has his name on the cover but he pitched a basic arc and has other artists & writers doing that work. Imagine being Toriyama anticipated Dragon Ball would be written and continue similarly to Dr. Slump. I don't think he ever thought he'd invest over 12-years of his life working with the IP.

Not anime but manga; on topic with Toriyama...you should really check out (if you haven't) Toriyama Akira Marusaku Gekijo (Akira Toriyama's Manga Theater). All of the one-shot mangas and some additional overarching was included in the three volumes. I always think of the manga series as "forgotten Toriyama." Trust me, you'll enjoy reading it.

In terms of the Super manga arcs he gave plot outlines for, he did provide a good bit of feedback to the manga in particular before chapters were submitted. The physical manga volumes show a few examples of where one of Toyotarou‘s initial panels is shown, then the revised panel is shown that was made based on Toriyama’s suggestions (like re-arranging characters’ placements and such to properly fit the reader’s focus). IIRC this went as far as modifying character expressions, advising to avoid showing movement lines if the character‘s movement isn’t particular fast, how to properly display a character floating if the floor isn’t visible beneath them, etc.

Like, I understand if one doesn’t view Super as “proper Toriyama DB”, but he definitely showed a decent amount of interest in contributing up to a certain point. Unlike GT, where he gave the animation studio some character designs and nothing else. Hence likely contributing to why between the two, Super is generally view more favorably, or at least less unfavorably, than GT by most DB fans who watched and/or read both.

 

[Happosai]

I only had the VHS tapes but any release without the original score basically doesn't exist to me.

I lost the VHS eons ago. There was discussion pre release about the scoring issues. It slips past me what the big deal was with Gainax but, I'd take this over nothing. By the way, did you pick up the first two volumes of U.Y.?

In terms of the Super manga arcs he gave plot outlines for, he did provide a good bit of feedback to the manga in particular before chapters were submitted. The physical manga volumes show a few examples of where one of Toyotarou‘s initial panels is shown, then the revised panel is shown that was made based on Toriyama’s suggestions (like re-arranging characters’ placements and such to properly fit the reader’s focus). IIRC this went as far as modifying character expressions, advising to avoid showing movement lines if the character‘s movement isn’t particular fast, how to properly display a character floating if the floor isn’t visible beneath them, etc.

Like, I understand if one doesn’t view Super as “proper Toriyama DB”, but he definitely showed a decent amount of interest in contributing up to a certain point. Unlike GT, where he gave the animation studio some character designs and nothing else. Hence likely contributing to why between the two, Super is generally view more favorably, or at least less unfavorably, than GT by most DB fans who watched and/or read both.

He had a hand in it similar to Groening with Futurama. In the manga role Toriyama has had many titles. Super it was more consultation and new model sheets, which you mentioned. He wasn't going back in to supervise it though. There are artists drawing his style and they've had other writers. The way he's likely set up with royalties...just having his name on it will keep the franchise going. It's not going to end with Super.

GT he had pretty much nothing to do with. Guy was burned out of working in the business at that time. His editor and publishers got the green light to create 'their own' revisioning of Dragon Ball with GT. And I nary know a fan of GT till this day.

 

[kunonabi]

I lost the VHS eons ago. There was discussion pre release about the scoring issues. It slips past me what the big deal was with Gainax but, I'd take this over nothing. By the way, did you pick up the first two volumes of U.Y.?

He had a hand in it similar to Groening with Futurama. In the manga role Toriyama has had many titles. Super it was more consultation and new model sheets, which you mentioned. He wasn't going back in to supervise it though. There are artists drawing his style and they've had other writers. The way he's likely set up with royalties...just having his name on it will keep the franchise going. It's not going to end with Super.

GT he had pretty much nothing to do with. Guy was burned out of working in the business at that time. His editor and publishers got the green light to create 'their own' revisioning of Dragon Ball with GT. And I nary know a fan of GT till this day.

Yeah, I got the first two volumes of U. Y. but haven't watched them yet. I like a lot of the ideas behind GT, well aside from Super 17 anyway, but the execution and excessive focus on Goku ruined it. I actively despise Super despite liking some of the characters. I haven't seen the whole thing to be fair but the Tournament of Power and Resurrection of F movie were just embarrassing to watch and I have no urge to watch the rest of it.

 

[Happosai]

Yeah, I got the first two volumes of U. Y. but haven't watched them yet. I like a lot of the ideas behind GT, well aside from Super 17 anyway, but the execution and excessive focus on Goku ruined it. I actively despise Super despite liking some of the characters. I haven't seen the whole thing to be fair but the Tournament of Power and Resurrection of F movie were just embarrassing to watch and I have no urge to watch the rest of it.

Check those discs at least to make sure they're good. I know it's rare but I told you my K.O.R. TV all discs looked clean. Then disc 4 wouldn't play...
I'd agree with postponing U.Y. for a watch because Discotek's release pattern always annoys me. I hate buying partial series (example -- 2/4 seasons). That's what kept me back from Cat's Eye and City Hunter. Although if they'd ever pack those into a single box...I'd likely buy.

I can't comment much on the anime itself (Super) given I've never really watched it. I'm well aware what they're doing and that it 'might be okay' for those mega DB fans. However, the series really got tedious to me after the 3rd season of the original Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball Z I've watched cherry picked but never on a full run due to all the repetition.

 

[kunonabi]

Check those discs at least to make sure they're good. I know it's rare but I told you my K.O.R. TV all discs looked clean. Then disc 4 wouldn't play...
I'd agree with postponing U.Y. for a watch because Discotek's release pattern always annoys me. I hate buying partial series (example -- 2/4 seasons). That's what kept me back from Cat's Eye and City Hunter. Although if they'd ever pack those into a single box...I'd likely buy.

I can't comment much on the anime itself (Super) given I've never really watched it. I'm well aware what they're doing and that it 'might be okay' for those mega DB fans. However, the series really got tedious to me after the 3rd season of the original Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball Z I've watched cherry picked but never on a full run due to all the repetition.

Even with Z I'm mostly just a fan of the Saiyan arc and the Cell saga. Super honestly runs into the same problem Z did during the Buu saga where Toriyama is writing only to please himself and subvert expectations instead of what's actually narratively satisfying.

Dr. Slump Toriyama remains best Toriyama.

 

[AJUMP23]

I finished up Record of the Lodos War today. Really good story and a lot of adventure. It really reminded me of playing the early Final Fantasy games.

 

[NahaNago]

Even with Z I'm mostly just a fan of the Saiyan arc and the Cell saga. Super honestly runs into the same problem Z did during the Buu saga where Toriyama is writing only to please himself and subvert expectations instead of what's actually narratively satisfying.

Dr. Slump Toriyama remains best Toriyama.

I really would like a release of the newer version of Dr. Slump. Has all of the original Dr. Slump anime ever been released? I know I have some of the movies in a collection but that is about it.

 

[Valonquar]

I finished up Record of the Lodoss War today. Really good story and a lot of adventure. It really reminded me of playing the early Final Fantasy games.

I believe it was literally based on a novelization of a groups actual D&D campaign in Japan. I can still hear the opening and ending songs echoing in my head.

 

[mild sriracha]

[posted to wrong thread]

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[mikezilla2]

With Right Stuf shutting down Whats Everyone Switching To ?

 

[JunkerWoland]

With Right Stuf shutting down Whats Everyone Switching To ?

First plan of action is to just see what actually happens on 10/10/23. Over at Reddit, a representative from Discotek confirmed the Right Stuf warehouse is--for now--remaining in operation. Comparing the Right Stuf website to the Crunchyroll store, it would seemingly make more sense to rebrand the Right Stuf store as Crunchyroll and affect the necessary adjustments to URLs and redirects. Regardless, everyone still using Right Stuf has already been shopping with Sony for the past year, so I plan to at least test how the retailer functions under the Crunchyroll brand.

Assuming everything goes to hell, I rarely purchase any of the fancier sets released by US companies; for basic disc-in-case releases, I see no problem using Amazon & similar large retailers or shopping directly with the distributor, such as Media Blasters or Aniplex (though the later is just Sony, and products will likely redirect to the neo-Crunchyroll store). I may turn to The Anime Corner Store for the rare fancy purchase, where I require decent shipping.

As for manga, which is my bigger conern, I still don't have a real plan of action. Amazon is an absolute nightmare for books. Again, I may give The Anime Corner Store a shot, while supplimenting those purchases with a mixture of in-person shopping and maybe trying the Barnes & Noble website.

While I dislike supporting Sony and its meddling in the US anime & manga market, assuming they maintain the same level of service currently available at Right Stuf, I'll accept the convenience of shopping with them, until a more legtimate retail replacement hopefully arises.

 

[ranmafan]

With Right Stuf shutting down Whats Everyone Switching To ?

Honestly right now not sure as I’m not sure how it will affect, if at all, the local western anime release import store here in Japan I use. My hope is very little but we will see. As for buying directly from the US, Amazon is my main and mostly only choice now. It’s a shame too to see what happened to rightstuf. I remember getting their catalogs in the mid nineties every year and just going over them every day with so much interest. Seeing them shutting down is sadly another sign the great old days of my anime past are gone. Not saying that what we have today isn’t great, it is, but those days were special and so much of what made it special is gone now.

 

[kunonabi]

I'll probably just switch to Amazon and put up with the poor packaging. If the got anime membership goes away with the switch then I can't justify sticking with them.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

I got an itch to watch some more cyberpunk-ish retro anime that i havent seen before. These are the ones search came up with. I watched Akira and GITS...all those super famous ones but these I havent. Am I doing it right?

Bubblegum Crisis
Angel Cop
Cybercity Oedo 808

 

[Happosai]

I got an itch to watch some more cyberpunk-ish retro anime that i havent seen before. These are the ones search came up with. I watched Akira and GITS...all those super famous ones but these I havent. Am I doing it right?

Bubblegum Crisis
Angel Cop
Cybercity Oedo 808

Looks like you've hit some of the popular titles but are missing a few. I'll recommend some retro titles which are either cyberpunk-ish or border onto it in ambience.

1. Megazone 23 (all three parts)
2. A.D. Police (the OVA...not the TV series)
3. Total Crash (since we're still on the BGC universe and this is as far as you'll want to go)
4. Gunmm | Battle Angel OVA

Some kinda/sorta relative titles:

5. Riding Bean
6. Dominion Tank Police OG OVAs


My best recommendations are going to come from the fantasy / sci-fi genres though as it pertains to retro anime but, give a watch to those. They're OVAs and nothing really lengthy. Riding Bean for instance as like a 40-minute runtime.

 

[PrefectAboro]

What are the chances of getting the entire 80s run of Dr. Slump and OG Dragon Ball on Blu-Ray?

Also can anyone recommend any anime of any genre 80s/90s that have the same "WOW animation" factor as the Daicon IV anime? It's probably the best I've seen I need more!

 

[JunkerWoland]

What are the chances of getting the entire 80s run of Dr. Slump and OG Dragon Ball on Blu-Ray?

Dr. Slump receiving a North American-friendly release on Blu-ray is incredibly unlikely. The series is too long, and there's little recognition of the title, amongst domestic anime & manga enthusiasts. Even worldwide, I believe the only version of the show on Blu-ray was a partial release from France's Kazé, a company which has since been acquired by Viz's European operations.

As for Dragon Ball, Crunchyroll Germany began releasing an upscaled version of the show on Blu-ray in late 2022. While likely a low priority for North America, once the German edition is finished, I imagine Crunchyroll will eventually repurpose this material for the North American market (for reference, the fourth German set releases this month and takes the series up to Episode 101).

 

[Happosai]

What are the chances of getting the entire 80s run of Dr. Slump and OG Dragon Ball on Blu-Ray?

Also can anyone recommend any anime of any genre 80s/90s that have the same "WOW animation" factor as the Daicon IV anime? It's probably the best I've seen I need more!

Slim to none with OG Dragon Ball given how Funimation mishandled the DVD series. If we want another cropped, scrubbed and newly dubbed DBZ...that's what could happen with a blu-ray release for OG.

Dr. Slump (sorry for the tag J JunkerWoland ) may know how many of Discotek's DVD prints of the series sold. If they didn't break even and don't have a fanbase demand; that too will likely not see a North American blu-ray release. To say the least though...at least Discotek is slightly more reliable to not screw the audio, framing or coloring of Dr. Slump if it were to get a Blu-ray release.

Wow animation from the 80's mostly and fewer from the 90's:

- Venus Wars
- Angels Egg
- Robot Carnival
- NeoTokyo
- Wicked City
- Gunbuster
- Legend of Lemnear (despite whatever negatives people may say about it)
- Crusher Joe the Movie
- Space Cobra the Movie
- Demon City Shinjuku
- Lensmen: the movie
- Crying Freeman
- Patlabor the movie
- Project A-Ko (moreso movie 1 but 2 - 4 aren't bad)
- Rhea Gall Force
- Outlanders
- Genmu Senki Leda (no NA release but check out the JP blu-ray or LD rip and you'll see what I mean)
- Riding Bean
- Dragon's Heaven

and many more if I think about it.

 

[PrefectAboro]

Slim to none with OG Dragon Ball given how Funimation mishandled the DVD series. If we want another cropped, scrubbed and newly dubbed DBZ...that's what could happen with a blu-ray release for OG.

Dr. Slump (sorry for the tag J JunkerWoland ) may know how many of Discotek's DVD prints of the series sold. If they didn't break even and don't have a fanbase demand; that too will likely not see a North American blu-ray release. To say the least though...at least Discotek is slightly more reliable to not screw the audio, framing or coloring of Dr. Slump if it were to get a Blu-ray release.

Wow animation from the 80's mostly and fewer from the 90's:

- Venus Wars
- Angels Egg
- Robot Carnival
- NeoTokyo
- Wicked City
- Gunbuster
- Legend of Lemnear (despite whatever negatives people may say about it)
- Crusher Joe the Movie
- Space Cobra the Movie
- Demon City Shinjuku
- Lensmen: the movie
- Crying Freeman
- Patlabor the movie
- Project A-Ko (moreso movie 1 but 2 - 4 aren't bad)
- Rhea Gall Force
- Outlanders
- Genmu Senki Leda (no NA release but check out the JP blu-ray or LD rip and you'll see what I mean)
- Riding Bean
- Dragon's Heaven

and many more if I think about it.

Thanks so much for replying Happosai I appreciate the recommendations. I've already seen Gunbuster and I enjoyed it, Angels Egg has been on my watchlist for a while now too. Can't wait to check out the rest. I guess I gotta go the DVD route to start watching Dr. Slump. I just started the manga and it's hilarious, goofy, cute, has great character design.

 

[Happosai]

Dr. Slump receiving a North American-friendly release on Blu-ray is incredibly unlikely. The series is too long, and there's little recognition of the title, amongst domestic anime & manga enthusiasts. Even worldwide, I believe the only version of the show on Blu-ray was a partial release from France's Kazé, a company which has since been acquired by Viz's European operations.

As for Dragon Ball, Crunchyroll Germany began releasing an upscaled version of the show on Blu-ray in late 2022. While likely a low priority for North America, once the German edition is finished, I imagine Crunchyroll will eventually repurpose this material for the North American market (for reference, the fourth German set releases this month and takes the series up to Episode 101).

Always glad to see you write in as you seem to have a better knowledge of releases (why/if/when?) for many of these retro titles. Doesn't surprise me that France tried something of a release. Many of these shows aired in France or Italy sometimes only a few months after their JP airings. It is true though, for a Toriyama adaptation...we're fortunate there was a N.A. release given how overshadowed it was by his bigger works. I figured a blu-ray would be out of the question as it appears the DVDs are not oop yet and probably didn't hit their mark to break even for Discotek.

We've seen what they did with the blu-ray releases of DBZ. I feel that greasy fingers will be the only ones handling OG DB if it ever gets to blu-ray. They're going to scrub it to death like they did with the DBZ releases, possible screw with the coloring and/or audio and...they'll crop it. They have the negatives and it's not difficult at all for them to do a 16:9 remaster without degraining or any other garbage. Yet, if it's Funimation...it'll certainly be a 4:3 crop and the scrubbing looks just awful.

Thanks so much for replying Happosai I appreciate the recommendations. I've already seen Gunbuster and I enjoyed it, Angels Egg has been on my watchlist for a while now too. Can't wait to check out the rest. I guess I gotta go the DVD route to start watching Dr. Slump. I just started the manga and it's hilarious, goofy, cute, has great character design.

Very welcome. I wasn't planning to write much in the thread anymore but, I decided to chime in as I'd like that these titles are not forgotten. If you were to type a top 10 or 20 into a Google Search for 'wow' animation with retro anime...they'd start listing titles from the late-90's or 2000s as most tend to stop at Akira for 80s. Eons ago, there were many PHP sites which had all these titles and more listed with supplemental material. Unfortunately, most of those sites are gone and you'll probably find more in this thread (if you go back to page one and read onto ~40) than anywhere else online.

Gunbuster has always been very widespread and popular, so I figured. Also given the Discotek blu-ray came out a few months back; it'll continue to get exposure. Angels Egg you'll need to find online (YouTube or the like) as the DVD has been out of print over 10-years at this point making it rare and expensive (if you can even find it). Free online though as I'm pretty sure it's either in license rescue state or expired in N.A. You're in for a treat with the animation in Genma Senki Leda but, if you're looking for hard subs...it's a tough find. You may need to run a soft sub software and that's probably going to be a stream or download as it was never released in N.A. to my knowledge. With Dragon's Heaven, it was never released in N.A. but was popular in Japan (believe it even had a JP blu-ray). Shouldn't be too difficult finding it. You're going to be furious that Dragons Heaven wasn't released on blu-ray though as it's some of the best animation of the late-80's and absolutely incredible.

Oh, just remembered another one too. There's the anime movie 'Birth' from 1984 which has some sharp key animation.

Well, if you're going the DVD route...I wouldn't wait. If it's not oop already, it will be soon. I'd check RightStuf but try not to get confused with the movie collection they released. In most cases, the manga will be slightly better too than the animation.

 

[JunkerWoland]

I figured a blu-ray would be out of the question as it appears the DVDs are not oop yet and probably didn't hit their mark to break even for Discotek.

Keep in mind, Discotek's DVD was only for the initial, five Dr. Slump movies. The 1980s TV series has never received any North American release, though the late-1990s series was previously streamed on Tubi. As for Discotek's movies, it hit retail in 2014 and has yet to see any manner of BD upgrade, which should tell anyone everything they need to know about the likelihood of a North American, home-media release of the TV show.

We've seen what they did with the blu-ray releases of DBZ. I feel that greasy fingers will be the only ones handling OG DB if it ever gets to blu-ray. They're going to scrub it to death like they did with the DBZ releases, possible screw with the coloring and/or audio and...they'll crop it.

Crunchyroll Germany's release is an upscale from a video source, but it isn't cropped. Noise reduction is applied, however. From what I've seen and other impressions, Crunchyroll's discs are better than Spain's Selecta Visión but not as good as France's AB Video; all three BD releases are video upscales.

For reference, Crunchyroll vs. France's AB Video: