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[64bitmodels]

If this is all being done on AMD hardware and it's as promising as it looks, AMD might have something cooking for the next set of GPUs. I hope. This is probably just copium on my part though

I am still a bit disappointed that it's come to the point where developer optimization is so shit and game engines are so bloated that pro systems are necessitated for consoles to even last the entire gen

 

[Audiophile]

GDC upon us and leaks are coming. Hopefully this prompts Sony to make an announcement sooner rather than later.

 

[ShirAhava]

This is a lot weaker than I was expecting like if it was even 5 Teraflops weaker I would be saying its not enough

This is just barely the min level I would upgrade my GPU to in my current (Comet Lake) rig from a 2060 Super

PS5 just doesn't have to catalog to get me to buy a 500 dollar console I'm not interested in anything they are doing

If PS5 Pro was a beast I'd get it on GP but meh. playstation is a not factor (for me). xbox is done. If Nintendo didn't have such a shit stance on emulation Switch 2 would be my only option unless S2 is something amazing I might be PC only forever at this point. Console gaming just seems like a big waste of time and money now.

 

[ChiefDada]

I wonder if the bump in raster is to give PSSR a better shot at being effective. We all know upscalers to better with higher base resolutions. Maybe Sony has a hard minimum resolution for it?

For what it's worth, they quoted 1080p - 4K PSSR (love it) upscale with ~2ms render budget. Perhaps this is the target internal res they want devs to aim for.

 

[Mr Moose]

Base PS5 already can compete against 3070 in games.

It can?
I'm not expecting miracles, but I am expecting a nice boost overall if what they are saying is true (upscaling tech + RT improvements).

 

[SlimySnake]

For what it's worth, they quoted 1080p - 4K PSSR (love it) upscale with ~2ms render budget. Perhaps this is the target internal res they want devs to aim for.

Where was this quoted?

 

[Bojji]

3070 at best!??? Really Slimy?

Base PS5 already can compete against 3070 in games. And at 2-4x RT uplift, that is above Ampere RT performance, will further push ahead of these GPUs you claim are comparable. If you really think your 3080 is besting the PS5 Pro in RT then you're in for a rude (or pleasant) awakening.

Yeah let's wait for real life RT pefromance in games before we say that it's better than Ampere...

This PS5 Pro GPU is between 3070 and 3070ti on this chart^

 

[Topher]

This dual issue stuff really fucks everything up. Now we have 33.5TF console and some people are shitting their pants from happiness haha. When in reality it's on 6800 level, mid RDNA2 GPU from 2020.

Fucks up dedicated PC GPUs as well. Techpowerup shows 35 TF for the 7700 XT but that's dual issue. All RDNA 3.0 is. Reinforces that teraflops is not a good measuring stick for judging GPUs outside of its own architecture.

AMD Radeon RX 7700 XT Specs

AMD Navi 32, 2544 MHz, 3456 Cores, 216 TMUs, 96 ROPs, 12288 MB GDDR6, 2250 MHz, 192 bit

www.techpowerup.com

 

[64bitmodels]

So graphics performance wise, it sounds like it's going land somewhere between an AMD RX 7600xt and a RX 7700xt.

That's literally the current performance of the PS5 right now. Equivalent to a 6700xt 10gb

This shit's gonna be closer to a 4070/6800xt in performance thn anything

 

[Gaiff]

This dual issue stuff really fucks everything up. Now we have 33.5TF console and some people are shitting their pants from happiness haha. When in reality it's on 6800 level, mid RDNA2 GPU from 2020.

Ampere and Lovelace are even more confusing with the INT32 and FP32 bullshittery.

 

[Gaiff]

That's literally the current performance of the PS5 right now. Equivalent to a 6700xt 10gb

This shit's gonna be closer to a 4070/6800xt in performance thn anything

Actually, it's not. The 6700 is. Not a lot slower but the 6700 XT is around 10-15% faster than its smaller brethren.

 

[Bojji]

That's literally the current performance of the PS5 right now. Equivalent to a 6700xt 10gb

This shit's gonna be closer to a 4070/6800xt in performance thn anything

PS5 is closer to 6700 non xt, this is definitely weaker than 6700xt.

So going from that you arrive at 6800 level with pro.

 

[64bitmodels]

Actually, it's not. The 6700 is. Not a lot slower but the 6700 XT is around 10-15% faster than its smaller brethren.

shit.


Well even then i doubt that it's going to be JUST 10-15% faster when the leak specified a 40% uplift. that's going into 4070 territory. I think it will sit right fine in the current gen 70 series/last gen 80 series category

 

[ChiefDada]

Where was this quoted?

 

[SlimySnake]

This is a lot weaker than I was expecting like if it was even 5 Teraflops weaker I would be saying its not enough

This is just barely the min level I would upgrade my GPU to in my current (Comet Lake) rig from a 2060 Super

PS5 just doesn't have to catalog to get me to buy a 500 dollar console I'm not interested in anything they are doing

If PS5 Pro was a beast I'd get it on GP but meh. playstation is a not factor (for me). xbox is done. If Nintendo didn't have such a shit stance on emulation Switch 2 would be my only option unless S2 is something amazing I might be PC only forever at this point. Console gaming just seems like a big waste of time and money now.

I have a 3080 and this is very disappointing because i was hoping for at least 3080 levels of performance so i can leave the hassle of PC gaming behind and just plug and play games without having to waste hours on settings and building shaders and what not. last year broke me.

But keep in mind that the 3070 is vram starved and while you might get by in most games after a few patches, its going to be hassle. if you upgrade to a 4060 or 4060 ti, you will run into the same issues with that 8gb vram.

going to 4070 for the same $599 price point as the ps5 pro is going to get you to 3080 performance at which point you will have to make the same decision as me. Do you settle for 4k dlss performance on consoles or 4k dlss balanced on pc with some games letting you do 4k dlss quality? But with a lot more headaches?

i will buy this thing for ps5 first party games since those are the only games i truly care about nowadays, but i could probably spend an extra $400 and get a 4080 super and gain around 50% more performance.

 

[Gaiff]

shit.


Well even then i doubt that it's going to be JUST 10-15% faster when the leak specified a 40% uplift. that's going into 4070 territory. I think it will sit right fine in the current gen 70 series/last gen 80 series category

The leak says 45% faster in raster but has a huge UNOPTIMIZED in brackets. Presumably, that's a worst-case scenario? Maybe we'll be looking at 60% in the real world? I dunno.

3070 at best!??? Really Slimy?

Base PS5 already can compete against 3070 in games. And at 2-4x RT uplift, that is above Ampere RT performance, will further push ahead of these GPUs you claim are comparable. If you really think your 3080 is besting the PS5 Pro in RT then you're in for a rude (or pleasant) awakening.

Obviously won't be as slow as the 3070 but it's also not guaranteed to be faster than the 3080 at all. Do remember that the regular 3080 is around 70-90% than the regular PS5 in rasterization so it would still be a tad faster than the Pro. Also recall that in that path tracing benchmark, the 3080 is 3.6x faster than 6700 XT. I'm really unsure how they arrive at the Pro being 2-4x faster than the regular PS5 in RT but depending on how they got there, it could indeed still be slower than the 3080 in RT or on par and the 3080 would claw back whatever deficit incurred by RT with its better raster performance. I'm not quite sure how this will go but you seem to think that it's a slam dunk that it'll beat the 3080 in everything when it really isn't. In fact, we'd have to hope for the numbers on the higher end of the spectrum to pan out for this to be true.

I know you're enthusiastic about the hardware and all but as I said, hold your horses and don't get ahead of yourself. You were suggesting earlier that the Pro could potentially rival an RTX 4080 in ray tracing. Does it seem likely now when the numbers put it closer to a 7700 XT in rasterization? Now we're not even sure if it can convincingly beat the 3080 at anything, barring a VRAM bottleneck.

 

[64bitmodels]

ts a sizeable jump in ray tracing and machine learning hardware. But 1.45x increase in standard rasterization is NOT a sizeable jump when you compare PS4 Pro which was around 2.23x over PS4 Pro and Xbox One X which was 4x over the Xbox One.

Different advancements for different times. Raster is a perfected technology now, the rage is in AI and upscaling which is the real sauce of this upgrade. It'd be like getting mad that clock speeds haven't increased in 20 years despite the fact that there were improvements made to CPUs in other areas.

 

[64bitmodels]

The new narrative

an opinion is a narrative. Gosh you people are too fucking invested.

 

[SlimySnake]

oh shit. he actually shows the documentation?? what a mad lad. lmao

3070 at best!??? Really Slimy?

Base PS5 already can compete against 3070 in games. And at 2-4x RT uplift, that is above Ampere RT performance, will further push ahead of these GPUs you claim are comparable. If you really think your 3080 is besting the PS5 Pro in RT then you're in for a rude (or pleasant) awakening.

I gave my reasons. the 6800 is the same tflops and is more powerful than the 3070 and 3070 ti. But we are not getting the performance of a 6800 which is 60% more powerful. we are getting 45%. which would bring us to 3070 levels of performance.

Only some games, like spiderman 2 and uncharted 4, are 3070 levels. otherwise the ps5 performs like a 2080 in non-RT games. I have no doubt that the ps5 pro will outperform the 3080 in those first party titles. i am talking about third party games which make up 90% of the games we all play on these consoles. especially with sony first party taking a back seat these past few years.

 

[ChiefDada]

I know you're enthusiastic about the hardware and all but as I said, hold your horses and don't get ahead of yourself. You were suggesting earlier that the Pro could potentially rival an RTX 4080 in ray tracing. Does it seem likely now when the numbers put it closer to a 7700 XT in rasterization? Now we're not even sure if it can convincingly beat the 3080 at anything, barring a VRAM bottleneck.

I did?

 

[rickybooby87]

an opinion is a narrative. Gosh you people are too fucking invested.

Am I little too invested? Perhaps, perhaps...

 

[Gaiff]

I did?

Yep. In your defense, this was a while ago.

 

[Loxus]

oh shit. he actually shows the documentation?? what a mad lad. lmao

Yep.
This should be added to OP.

 

[Neff]

8K

 

[ChiefDada]

Yep. In your defense, this was a while ago.

Ah yes, I think at the time I had assumed the rumored 2x RT was on a per CU/basis that was compounded/additive to the expected raster increase. But yeah still, it's a good time to step away for the day. I'm sure next week GDC will produce even more info.

 

[SakkanartSilentJealousy]

Raw TF a bit less than 7700XT I guess? But that PSSR maybe help a lot. That's interesting.

 

[shamoomoo]

why are we assuming 60 CUs again? 54 CUs at 2.4 Ghz gets us 16.58 and 33.7 tflops. And it wont break BC.

If the two shader engines specs is real then the Pros GPU can't have 54 CU, either we get 60/64 or 52/56 CUs. Now if Sony goes with 3SEs then we can have 54 CUs.

 

[Bernardougf]

So much wrong in a single post. Tf happened with you rofif?

Forspoken.

 

[shamoomoo]

It can?
I'm not expecting miracles, but I am expecting a nice boost overall if what they are saying is true (upscaling tech + RT improvements).

No in all games.

 

[lh032]

This is a lot weaker than I was expecting like if it was even 5 Teraflops weaker I would be saying its not enough

This is just barely the min level I would upgrade my GPU to in my current (Comet Lake) rig from a 2060 Super

PS5 just doesn't have to catalog to get me to buy a 500 dollar console I'm not interested in anything they are doing

If PS5 Pro was a beast I'd get it on GP but meh. playstation is a not factor (for me). xbox is done. If Nintendo didn't have such a shit stance on emulation Switch 2 would be my only option unless S2 is something amazing I might be PC only forever at this point. Console gaming just seems like a big waste of time and money now.

You are not the intended audience here.
You are a PC gamer and you expect a few hundred dollar console to match a high end PC gaming, which is not realistic.


This whole upgrade is for the main console gamers, not for PC gamers.

 

[saintjules]

This is a lot weaker than I was expecting like if it was even 5 Teraflops weaker I would be saying its not enough

This is just barely the min level I would upgrade my GPU to in my current (Comet Lake) rig from a 2060 Super

PS5 just doesn't have to catalog to get me to buy a 500 dollar console I'm not interested in anything they are doing

If PS5 Pro was a beast I'd get it on GP but meh. playstation is a not factor (for me). xbox is done. If Nintendo didn't have such a shit stance on emulation Switch 2 would be my only option unless S2 is something amazing I might be PC only forever at this point. Console gaming just seems like a big waste of time and money now.

Sounds like you're talking to yourself.

 

[Quantum253]

I seen the rumor post with HellBlade 2 coming to PS5... Wondering if that will be a PS5 Pro showcase piece

 

[Bernardougf]

Still betting on 599

This sucks.. I wanted a more powerfull machine on the 699_799 range.. but guess this would create a series s situation... maybe next gen

 

[Pimpbaa]

Only thing I can see them using the AI stuff is for their res upscaling. Can’t build a game around the AI hardware because it wouldn’t work with the standard PS5.

 

[Ramz87]

Look...we didn't need a leak to know this shit was real.

To anyone who kept doubting this shit, why did you really need a "leak" to confirm Sony likes money? What the fuck would they gain NOT releasing a upgrade that is completely optional?


I agree.

I'm sure it can be done, but shit how many would give a fuck? If you love PS3, you'd still have a working one tbh. I have several.

Its not even saying I'd never use it, merely that maybe once a year I'll go back and play thru an old PS3 game, but that is becoming more rare with lots of remakes and remasters coming from that gen.

So lets say they do some Killzone 2 or Motorstorm remake, they would I play the PS3 version? Realistically, what is even left that has not been remastered or remake that is even worth BC with like less then 2% that even use the function?

So it would be nice, I'm not saying otherwise, but at this point, I don't even know what i'd even play with the BC, 3D Dot Hero....maybe thats it, its like....most of what I re-play is being remade, remastered etc.

MGS4 is rumored to be remastered and so is GTA IV, so even those titles wouldn't really be something I'd go back for, so the deeper we go into the generation, the more reasons I have to not go back to the PS3 gen. It was a great time, but anyone who really cares about that library should be playing native in the first place and maybe should have never sold their PS3 if they gave such a fuck lol

Where did you hear about the MGS4 remaster??

 

[Topher]

This is a lot weaker than I was expecting like if it was even 5 Teraflops weaker I would be saying its not enough

This is just barely the min level I would upgrade my GPU to in my current (Comet Lake) rig from a 2060 Super

Ok, but wouldn't you use benchmarks to decide to upgrade your current GPU or not? We don't have those yet. Really doesn't make sense for anyone to rush to judgement on a custom job like this.

PS5 just doesn't have to catalog to get me to buy a 500 dollar console I'm not interested in anything they are doing

Well then a PS5 Pro ain't for you at all regardless of how powerful it is.

 

[Codeblew]

My 3060 is over 13TF (it doesn't cap at 1777Mhz) and the PS5 out performs it. TFLOPS don't mean shit.

True. Comparing XBOX to PS5 is also more proof that TFLOPS are not the end-all-be-all.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yep.
This should be added to OP.

ok, so like i suspected. The 45% figure is straight form sony. Very disappointing.

But ray tracing performance and dlss 4k performance is very intriguing. For Avatar which currently runs at 720p internal resolution being upscaled to 1440p FSR, we could go to 1080p internal resolution and 4k dlss which is typically better than even FSR2 1440p. (Though not in Avatar which has a great FSR implementation and not so great DLSS implementation)

It's great to see this as an extension of TAAU. I prefer TAAU over FSR. Used it in Callisto on PC and it was a revelation. Though it did start to fall apart at 58% resolution or 4k balanced upscaling. lets hope AI upscaling gets great results at 50% scaling. And then they can use framegen to go up to 90 fps.

Spiderman 2 is 1080p 60 fps so if we assume 2x more ray tracing performance, we are already at 1512p. 3x would be 1800p. 4x would be native 4k. i wouldnt be surprised if the 4x number came from either a spiderman 2 or ratchet benchmark.

star wars is cpu bound with RT on but its roughly 1440p internal in the 30 fps mode. i wonder if they can get 60 fps here by dropping to 1080p in the ray tracing mode and using PSSR with better image quality than the FSR2 quality mode at launch. Though i doubt ea is ever going back to this game or franchise.

Now Alan Wake 2, FF7 Rebirth, FF16 and other games like skull and bones dropping to 720p in their performance modes? that 45% increase gets them to 900p and i dont know if upscaling to 4k from there will produce great results. i never go below 4k dlss performance.

It sucks that the raw gpu performance gain is so low because the ray tracing and AI acceleration stuff is so damn intriguing. I feel like sony couldve had an x1x like monster here with just another 25-30% increase in raw performance. But right now it feels like another PS4 Pro with some really interesting tech but also some needless concessions that will ultimately hamper it in the long run.

 

[Quantum253]

Only thing I can see them using the AI stuff is for their res upscaling. Can’t build a game around the AI hardware because it wouldn’t work with the standard PS5.

It should be able to predict what should be displayed without having to render it. I mean, that's a gross misrepresenting of the tech, but generally speaking

 

[Gamerguy84]

Gaf right now.

 

[Leonidas]

PS5 at launch = 2-year old high end GPU
PS5 Pro at launch = 4-year old high end GPU

I'm lovin' it

That 45% uplift after 4 years sounds abysmal.

 

[sendit]

Starfield

Meltdowns will happen if Starfield runs better on the base PS5 versus Series X.

 

[lh032]

PS5 at launch = 2-year old high end GPU
PS5 Pro at launch = 4-year old high end GPU

I'm lovin' it

That 45% uplift after 4 years sounds abysmal.

agreed, ps5 pro should perform the same as a high end PC under 699 dollars.
Big brain here.

 

[nikolino840]

I dont know what those specs mean but
Day
Freaking
1.

more teraflops = more power

 

[Venom Snake]

agreed, ps5 pro should perform the same as a high end PC under 699 dollars.
Big brain here.

It should also have that 1% performance crown to fry itself in full glory.

 

[Kaiserstark]

The leak says 45% faster in raster but has a huge UNOPTIMIZED in brackets. Presumably, that's a worst-case scenario? Maybe we'll be looking at 60% in the real world? I dunno.

Yeah that's interesting that MLID is reporting that the Pro is ~45% faster than the PS5 in Raw (Unoptimized) rendering Performance. I'm wondering what you can get in a best-case scenario.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

Wild prediction: PS5 Pro will launch at $999, have 2TB SSD, and come with a Dualsense Edge.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yeah that's interesting that MLID is reporting that the Pro is ~45% faster than the PS5 in Raw (Unoptimized) rendering Performance. I'm wondering what you can get in a best-case scenario.

its 45% average. they dont give best case scenario like they do for ray tracing performance. MILD inserted that nonsense about unoptimized performance. the spec sheet doesnt say anything about unoptimized.

 

[Quantum253]

Wild prediction: PS5 Pro will launch at $999, have 2TB SSD, and come with a Dualsense Edge.

With the extra scalper markup

 

[Jinzo Prime]

Wild prediction: PS5 Pro will launch at $999, have 2TB SSD, and come with a Dualsense Edge.

No way, who would buy that?