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Media Create Sales: Week 7, 2015 (Feb 09 - Feb 15)

Bruno MB

Member
Until Etrian Odyssey Untold 2: Fafnir no Kishi which was the latest release, every entry had sold around 90.000 units in its first week followed by a steep drop in the following week. Their sales performance are very predictable, I would rather predict for Theatrhythm Dragon Quest. It is also true that I'm expecting a similar performance to Theatrhythm Final Fantasy: Curtain Call.

I wouldn't discard Disgaea 5 either. We're only predicting its first week sales, so I think it would be reasonable to expect around 55.000 - 65.000 units but who knows, it could badly underperform due to other notable releases, specially Bloodborne.

Edit: PlayStation 4 hardware should be a must. Don't be afraid to include too many things, it only take us a minute to fill out the data :p
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
yes, nintendo are the perfect fit to greenlight sequels to sony-owned ips

Most first party requests make no sense.

Nintendo and Sony have made extremely minimal acquisitions in recent years, and while Sony has made more than Nintendo, they've also shut down a lot of studios.

After Atlus, FROM, and tri-Ace, I feel it would be highly self evident that first parties aren't in the market for studios from Japan.

Now, on the publishing front, we have seen a few titles picked up here and there. However, I don't think the scenario around those titles is sufficiently analyzed.

The two titles Nintendo is most famous for saving would be Bayonetta 2 and Devil's Third.

For Bayonetta 2, there was a game Sega had halfway completed that they were looking to recoup costs on because they were ending their relationship with Platinum Games, who had very few other publishers lined up for their games. Usually when a title is canceled, the publisher puts the staff on another game. This is why, for example, no one is going to save Lili Bergamo, because the people who were making that are now making another game for the same publisher. If Gung-Ho was jettisoning the studio at the time, that would be different, but that's rarely the case.

For Devil's Third, Itagaki didn't have a funder for the project, and it was instead being poured into internally. It was also owned by Valhalla so they didn't have any existing ties to a publisher (and never managed to find one). As such, Nintendo shared funds into finishing the project in exchange for exclusivity.

For Sony we don't actually have a public case of them picking up a dead game and saving it. Rather we've actually seen them drop things like Adrift which later became Remember Me, or trading off L.A. Noire to Rockstar.

What they have been doing is trading financial backing to amortize risk on existing projects from publishers who have become notably gunshy on consoles after many failures. It's similar to how Nintendo loans out their IPs to help the saleability of projects from developers with more limited appeal.

Beyond even that, if we look at most of the things being supported, they're not notably risky projects. Bayonetta 2 and Devil's Third are obviously exceptions to this, but those were titles which were in large part paid by another source first before being funded to completion.

The other types of games we see however are things like a Musou game, a Pokemon strategy game, a Pokemon fighting game, Street Fighter, Puzzle & Dragons, maybe f2p games like Deep Down/Dragon's Dogma/Let It Die/that Namco and Nintendo f2p thingy, and publishing deals for games like what's basically a Souls title or just farming out the development of Super Smash Bros.

I really feel there's no notable signs that Sony and Nintendo are trying to barge in and fund as much content as possible beyond what would largely be made anyway. There are certainly attempts to get that content on their platforms often even exclusively, but I don't feel they're working to be major enablers.
 

Eolz

Member
[ ... ]
For Devil's Third, Itagaki didn't have a funder for the project, and it was instead being poured into internally. It was also owned by Valhalla so they didn't have any existing ties to a publisher (and never managed to find one). As such, Nintendo shared funds into finishing the project in exchange for exclusivity.

[ ... ]

I really feel there's no notable signs that Sony and Nintendo are trying to barge in and fund as much content as possible beyond what would largely be made anyway. There are certainly attempts to get that content on their platforms often even exclusively, but I don't feel they're working to be major enablers.

Well there was THQ, but... :p
Wasn't there a story about how they had some korean publisher for a while too (after THQ died and before we heard of D3rd again)?

Nintendo found a good way to get exclusives for "cheap", with AA/B content having more difficulty than before to get published. Wouldn't be surprised if there's more announced this year. It's also a good way for them to get titles they don't usually produce.
I feel Sony is just following their usual strategy of showing developers why it'd be a good opportunity to choose their platform, and to give some help from Japan Studio in exchange of exclusivity
obviously Nintendo and MS do the same, but not to the same extent
. They're not in a situation where they really need to do that anyway, even in Japan.
 

small44

Member
First Day Sell-Through {2015.02.19}

GamesMaya's report

- Yesterday was the launch of God Eater 2: Rage Burst. The Vita version is the best seller new release by a good margin.
At first it had a slow start that caused concern. But at the end of the day it gained traction and it sold almost the same units than the last entry.
In the evening a lot of high school students came, and at night many young "salaryman".
The game was bought mainly by these two profiles.

(No word about PS4 version)

It doesn't look like Vita will get a big boost from God eater
 

sörine

Banned
Most first party requests make no sense.

Nintendo and Sony have made extremely minimal acquisitions in recent years, and while Sony has made more than Nintendo, they've also shut down a lot of studios.

After Atlus, FROM, and tri-Ace, I feel it would be highly self evident that first parties aren't in the market for studios from Japan.
Japanese acquisitions in particular seem to be incredibly rare for the current 1st parties. Outside joint start ups (like NdCube) I believe Nintendo has only ever bought out Monolith Soft and Sony's never actually acquired an external Japanese studio.

I really feel there's no notable signs that Sony and Nintendo are trying to barge in and fund as much content as possible beyond what would largely be made anyway. There are certainly attempts to get that content on their platforms often even exclusively, but I don't feel they're working to be major enablers.
While I think this is true, I also have to say Nintendo invests quite a bit in the Japanese development community and they produce a ton of content locally and contract a lot of studios for it. I get the sense it's a point of pride and likely matters more to Nintendo than it might Sony given the amount of investment each sinks into Japan.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
sörine;152933312 said:
Japanese acquisitions in particular seem to be incredibly rare for the current 1st parties. Outside joint start ups (like NdCube) I believe Nintendo has only ever bought out Monolith Soft and Sony's never actually acquired an external Japanese studio.

While I think this is true, I also have to say Nintendo invests quite a bit in the Japanese development community and they produce a ton of content locally and contract a lot of studios for it. I get the sense it's a point of pride and likely matters more to Nintendo than it might Sony given the amount of investment each sinks into Japan.
Oh, yes, this is totally true. To go even further, Nintendo almost exclusively invests their game R&D into Japan.

I just wanted to comment more specifically on "saving" and enabling as opposed to their core strategy, which is clearly to invest overwhelmingly in Japanese development both through internal growth and contract studios.

Sony by comparison seems to just be doing some curation for third parties along with publishing a small slate of titles. They feel much more likely to divest than invest in growth for this direction.
 

Oregano

Member
Oh, yes, this is totally true. To go even further, Nintendo almost exclusively invests their game R&D into Japan.

I just wanted to comment more specifically on "saving" and enabling as opposed to their core strategy, which is clearly to invest overwhelmingly in Japanese development both through internal growth and contract studios.

Sony by comparison seems to just be doing some curation for third parties along with publishing a small slate of titles. They feel much more likely to divest than invest in growth for this direction.

One thing I'd be interested in seeing/knowing personally is how many pitches Nintendo gets from developers. It's not something you ever hear about but I think it would be interesting to see.

For instance it would be interesting to see if Imageepoch has tried to pitch anything after doing support work on Yoshi's New Island.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
I think nobody here (or I'm being naive? lol) thinks that GE2RB for PS4 will sell gangbusters.
But there's a difference if the PS4 version sells just 20k like SW4-II this week, or it sells a little more in the 35-45k range.
That would be an okish performance then.

260 to 40 is like a PS3 / Wii sales split for software releases.
 

ZSaberLink

Media Create Maven
For Bayonetta 2, there was a game Sega had halfway completed that they were looking to recoup costs on because they were ending their relationship with Platinum Games, who had very few other publishers lined up for their games.

It does seem like that's changed a bit since then? After Bayonetta 2, we had the Legend of Korra game (albeit licensed) along with now Scalebound? I also thought Platinum might be working on something else, but I forget.
 

Oregano

Member
It does seem like that's changed a bit since then? After Bayonetta 2, we had the Legend of Korra game (albeit licensed) along with now Scalebound? I also thought Platinum might be working on something else, but I forget.

MGR2 is almost confirmed and Nintendo's Yamagami implied Nintendo wants to keep working with them.
 
This is the ranking in 2015 closed the time February 20,

01. [PS3] Dragon Quest Heroes darkness dragon and of the world tree castle - 297pt
02. [PS4] Dragon Quest Heroes darkness dragon and of the world tree castle - 182pt
03. [PSV] Sword Art Online - Lost Song - (Superior Version) -120pt
04. [PS3] Yakuza 0 oath of location - 119pt
05. [PS4] Bloodborne Limited Edition - 71pt
06. [PSV] Digimon Story cyber Sul © over scan - 64pt
07. [3DS] World Tree and Mystery Dungeon - 59pt
08. [PS3] 3rd Super Robot Wars Z Tengoku hen - 58pt
09. [PSV] 3rd Super Robot Wars Z Tengoku hen - 53pt
10. [PS4] Yakuza 0 oath of location - 51pt
11. [PS3] One Piece: Pirate Warriors 3 - 45pt
12. [PS3] Resident Evil: Revelations 2 - 42pt
13. [PS3] Sword Art Online - Lost Song - - 33pt
14. [PS4] Final Fantasy Type-0 HD - 32pt
15. [PS4] Resident Evil: Revelations 2 - 28pt
16. [3DS] PUZZLE & DRAGONS SUPER MARIO BROS EDITION - 24pt
17. [3DS] ties to Kuroko's Basketball Future - 23pt
18. [PS4] Disgaea 5 (Limited Edition) - 22pt
19. [PSV] Phantasy Star Online 2 Episode 3 deluxe package - 21pt


3DS - 3 titles
PSV - 4 titles
 

Xenus

Member
Well, we're talking about what's likely to be a <100k release LTD right? So even if it's PS4 > PS3, the difference might not actually be meaningful in a practical sense. DQH will be the real test...

I honestly think it might make sense for Sony to incentivize publishers to delay the PS3 version a month or so if they can't get them to drop cross gen in Japan
 

casiopao

Member
Oh, yes, this is totally true. To go even further, Nintendo almost exclusively invests their game R&D into Japan.

I just wanted to comment more specifically on "saving" and enabling as opposed to their core strategy, which is clearly to invest overwhelmingly in Japanese development both through internal growth and contract studios.

Sony by comparison seems to just be doing some curation for third parties along with publishing a small slate of titles. They feel much more likely to divest than invest in growth for this direction.

Hmmm, this is actually a big question to me then for Nintendo. Why don't Nintendo tries to like help some troubled developer like buying some of their shares or invest a bit on those companies to make them develop for the console exclusively?Like Imageepoch or the previous Tri-Ace? After all, we see how Nintendo themselves being unable to support both Wii U and 3DS by themselves, won't getting some other company to act as both support team(Imageepoch supporting Yoshi New Island) and developer (Monolith Soft main team) is a great idea?

Or maybe that move is simply to expensive to take?
 

duckroll

Member
I honestly think it might make sense for Sony to incentivize publishers to delay the PS3 version a month or so if they can't get them to drop cross gen in Japan

There is nothing Sony can really do. The market demand will always be more powerful than any incentive. If PS3 continue to sell more than PS4 every time there is a major Japanese cross-gen title, then it simply weakens the argument that publishers should move more quickly to the PS4. There is no guarantee that if they drop PS3 or delay a PS3 version, that the sales would move to the PS4. Those could simply be lost sales, and that would be far more damaging.
 

Mory Dunz

Member
2013 52 {2013.12.23 - 2013.12.29} 01. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds # <ADV> (Nintendo) {2013.12.26} (¥4.800) - 224.143 / 224.143 <83,47%>
2014 01 {2013.12.30 - 2014.01.05} 03. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds # <ADV> (Nintendo) {2013.12.26} (¥4.800) - 73.072 / 297.216 <96,84%>
2014 02 {2014.01.06 - 2014.01.12} 04. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds # <ADV> (Nintendo) {2013.12.26} (¥4.800) - 26.286 / 323.502
2014 03 {2014.01.13 - 2014.01.19} 05. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds # <ADV> (Nintendo) {2013.12.26} (¥4.800) - 17.897 / 341.398
2014 04 {2014.01.20 - 2014.01.26} 10. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds # <ADV> (Nintendo) {2013.12.26} (¥4.800) - 15.095 / 356.494
2014 05 {2014.01.27 - 2014.02.02} 13. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds # <ADV> (Nintendo) {2013.12.26} (¥4.800) - 10.048 / 366.541
2014 06 {2014.02.03 - 2014.02.09} 16. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds # <ADV> (Nintendo) {2013.12.26} (¥4.800) - 6.105 / 372.647
2014 07 {2014.02.10 - 2014.02.16} 20. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds # <ADV> (Nintendo) {2013.12.26} (¥4.800) - 4.785 / 377.432
2014 08 {2014.02.17 - 2014.02.23} 34. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds # <ADV> (Nintendo) {2013.12.26} (¥4.800)
2014 09 {2014.02.24 - 2014.03.02} 44. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds # <ADV> (Nintendo) {2013.12.26} (¥4.800)
2014 10 {2014.03.03 - 2014.03.09} 36. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds # <ADV> (Nintendo) {2013.12.26} (¥4.800)
2014 11 {2014.03.10 - 2014.03.16} 37. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds # <ADV> (Nintendo) {2013.12.26} (¥4.800)
___

2015 07 {2015.02.09 - 2015.02.15} 00. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds # <ADV> (Nintendo) {2013.12.26} (¥4.800) - 0 / 430.000

So it sold around 40-45k after disappearing from the charts?
Is that a high amount? Or average.
 

Xenus

Member
There is nothing Sony can really do. The market demand will always be more powerful than any incentive. If PS3 continue to sell more than PS4 every time there is a major Japanese cross-gen title, then it simply weakens the argument that publishers should move more quickly to the PS4. There is no guarantee that if they drop PS3 or delay a PS3 version, that the sales would move to the PS4. Those could simply be lost sales, and that would be far more damaging.

True but as long as cross gen exists and is delivered same day and date there will be less incentive to move on to PS4 in Japan. So it's a bit of a connundrum. If you want people to move to your new system you are going to have to incentiize it somehow especially if SCEJA doesn't seem to be making many exclusive games to make up for crossgen 3rd party.
 

duckroll

Member
True but as long as cross gen exists and is delivered same day and date there will be less incentive to move on to PS4 in Japan. So it's a bit of a connundrum. If you want people to move to your new system you are going to have to incentiize it somehow especially if SCEJA doesn't seem to be making many exclusive games to make up for crossgen 3rd party.

Right, I think the biggest problem is that there is a general lack of strong PS4 exclusives which give consumers the push to jump over. If SCEJA were more productive, it would help to mitigate this a lot. Things like FFXV and KH3 would also be of significant help, but they're so far away. It's hard to blame developers and publishers for still sticking with PS3 if their design scope is possible on the platform, and the technical aspects of development allow them to do cross-gen easily.
 

Vena

Member
Oh, yes, this is totally true. To go even further, Nintendo almost exclusively invests their game R&D into Japan.

This makes me curious in what made Nintendo pick-up a studio like Monolith Soft the way that it did? I know they haven't picked up NLG in any official capacity but they are effectively a Nintendo studio now in their development, they feel like a mini-Retro, and I am sure get funded by Nintendo for their projects rather than self-fund.

It seems that, while not aggressive or huge, Nintendo has been doing some "pick ups" here and there in different capacities. Has this been spurred on (along with picking up half-finished projects like Bayo and DThird) by an attempt to expand their controlled output as well as portfolio for output in terms of genres and game types that the likes of EAD does work on or that Retro, alone, doesn't have time to develop.
 

monpiece

Banned
About delaying PS3 version of PS3/PS4 games, what Duckroll said plus delaying a few weeks won't convince many people to shell 40,000 yen just to play the game. We see quite often people opting to wait because a port to their preferred platform waa hinted or leaked (for example, ESRB leaking PC ratings).

It is a completely different situation than buying timed exclusivity between X1/PS4 because that might influence purchasing one console instead of the other. PS3/PS4 situation is more like PSP/PSV: Sony could do nothing but wait for people start choosing PSV over PSP. If Vita outlook is already bad, imagine if SAO, Toukiden and God Eater all decided to go somewhere else if Sony forced PSV for the first SAO game and forced PSP version to be delayed or canned for the other 2?
 

hiska-kun

Member
So it sold around 40-45k after disappearing from the charts?
Is that a high amount? Or average.

The last time I saw Zelda OoT in a MC top 20 was in week 42 2011:

18./20. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D <ACT> (Nintendo) {2011.06.16} (¥4.800) - 7.133 / 422.495 (-1%)

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=449810

At the end of 2013 the game was:

[3DS] The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D (Nintendo) {2011.06.16} (¥4.800) - 576.896

The game is still selling.
 

Mory Dunz

Member
The last time I saw Zelda OoT in a MC top 20 was in week 42 2011:

18./20. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D <ACT> (Nintendo) {2011.06.16} (¥4.800) - 7.133 / 422.495 (-1%)

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=449810

At the end of 2013 the game was:

[3DS] The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D (Nintendo) {2011.06.16} (¥4.800) - 576.896

The game is still selling.

Well, but that was released early in the 3DS's life, so ithe install base was a lot smaller at the time. Also, OoT was better received than ALBW so it's legs aren't really surprising.

What I mean is, I'm not sure if those two can be compared much.
 

hiska-kun

Member
Well, but that was released early in the 3DS's life, so ithe install base was a lot smaller at the time. Also, OoT was better received than ALBW so it's legs aren't really surprising.

What I mean is, I'm not sure if those two can be compared much.

Basically Ocarina of Time had good legs, and ALBW just died after the holidays.

To be released early in the 3DS's life could be a point, but then, why is Ocarina of Time still tracking this current week in position number 49 and ALBW is still dead?
 

small44

Member
No, but probably Vita will sell more than many people expect this week because of the new bundles. But no one should expect the bump from bundles to last.

Isn't GamesMaya's store mention hardware boosts when they are,if their last report they didn't say anything
 
The last time I saw Zelda OoT in a MC top 20 was in week 42 2011:

18./20. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D <ACT> (Nintendo) {2011.06.16} (¥4.800) - 7.133 / 422.495 (-1%)

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=449810

At the end of 2013 the game was:

[3DS] The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D (Nintendo) {2011.06.16} (¥4.800) - 576.896

The game is still selling.

when's the last time it appeared in the Famitsu top 30, maybe it will be much more recent there :p
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
It does seem like that's changed a bit since then? After Bayonetta 2, we had the Legend of Korra game (albeit licensed) along with now Scalebound? I also thought Platinum might be working on something else, but I forget.
My feeling here is that Platinum has seen more work opportunities as the types of games they're willing to work on have broadened.

When they started with Sega they were a premium player who made a series of new IPs exactly how they wanted to in a long term sweetheart deal with a publisher.

After that they picked up a half dead project from Konami quickly made something that fit with the biggest elements of the very loose design spec they had created on a short turnaround window. This was also by far their most successful game, and likely their only notably profitable one, so this was a boost for them and the one relationship that seems like it has a good chance of continuing.

Nintendo was looking for more core oriented software and they had Kamiya helm a game that seemed to more immediately fit with what you would think of as a game from Nintendo. Since Sega canned Bayonetta 2 not too long after, while trying to revive the project Platinum eventually showed up and asked if they wanted to pick it up. Given that Nintendo saw they could have a half done game for cheap that fit with what they thought was going to be a core friendly system, they went for it.

Activision explained that the reason Platinum made Korra was that the Activision producer who was in charge of making the game saw them on the list of available developers and went "Yeah, get them!" However, when you sign up for the Activision licensed game developer list, it's usually an option of last resort. It means you're stating to Activision that you're willing to make a 6-6.5/10 at best licensed game with almost no budget on a short time scale. You don't do this if you don't really need work.

Then they signed up with Microsoft who was hungry for development partners when they noticed they had an insufficient first party and were no longer in a dominating situation. However, in this scenario, Platinum has their star director helming a game that's meant to appeal to a broader audience, uses an engine that Microsoft is very comfortable with supporting, and they're trying to use a Western friendly milestone based development plan since this is what Western publishers are far more comfortable with. They're willing to be quite pliable to Microsoft's needs in order to make this work.

What Platinum really has going for it is that they ship games that are usually of good quality that appear to frequently be on time and on budget. Their failures are failures of product (games that don't appeal to a wide enough audience), not failures of process (large scale development issues that impact budget, release window, or notably sink quality). Since they're following that up by making products that are more attractive to their publishers, they're able to keep getting work since their publishers believe that a product that fits with their vision might actually work.

This is actually an angle where I could see them working with Nintendo again, but if they do, I suspect they wouldn't make The Wonderful 102 or Bayonetta 3, but rather something lower budget and likely using a Nintendo IP. I don't think they'd necessarily make Star Fox in this scenario, but that line of thinking is more along the lines of what I'd expect: a game with less money on the line with a more accessible game design and brand to help it sell better.

This is actually how Ninja Theory manages to keep existing as well. They even had a AAA project going with another publisher until they decided that the project had shifted so far into the court of what the publisher wanted instead of what the studio wanted that they weren't interested in making it anymore, and they shifted to doing a bunch of contract work with 90% of their studio that fit their interests better while using the surplus funds from that to have the other 10% make a self published digital title.

Hmmm, this is actually a big question to me then for Nintendo. Why don't Nintendo tries to like help some troubled developer like buying some of their shares or invest a bit on those companies to make them develop for the console exclusively?Like Imageepoch or the previous Tri-Ace? After all, we see how Nintendo themselves being unable to support both Wii U and 3DS by themselves, won't getting some other company to act as both support team(Imageepoch supporting Yoshi New Island) and developer (Monolith Soft main team) is a great idea?

Or maybe that move is simply to expensive to take?
This makes me curious in what made Nintendo pick-up a studio like Monolith Soft the way that it did? I know they haven't picked up NLG in any official capacity but they are effectively a Nintendo studio now in their development, they feel like a mini-Retro, and I am sure get funded by Nintendo for their projects rather than self-fund.

It seems that, while not aggressive or huge, Nintendo has been doing some "pick ups" here and there in different capacities. Has this been spurred on (along with picking up half-finished projects like Bayo and DThird) by an attempt to expand their controlled output as well as portfolio for output in terms of genres and game types that the likes of EAD does work on or that Retro, alone, doesn't have time to develop.

@casiopao, I think this ultimately comes down to the concept that simply having staff is not useful unless that staff is making something that actually appeals to people.

ImageEpoch and tri-Ace don't really have a lot of recent success they can point to where they can say "Hey we're worth spending a fair amount of money on in order to secure our quality output for your system."

By comparison, as Vena mentions in the next post, Nintendo has ended up with a long term publishing agreement with Next Level Games, and the way that evolved was that NLG delivered quality games with each series they were given, and after each one, was given a more prestigious series to work with. That's the kind of natural relationship publishers really like to build instead of just buying a studio and hoping it works out.

For example, when Sega bought Atlus, they had actually been their distributor and been helping them handle licensed goods and merchandizing for a few years, so the relationship was already halfway in place and this was a natural next step when it came up.

For Nintendo specifically, I think they're overwhelmingly focused on these slow building relationships where they feel progressively more comfortable and more ambitious with the partnership. When Hyrule Warriors got announced, a lot of people were really surprised, but if we step back for a bit, Nintendo had a progressively increasing relationship with Tecmo Koei over the years that helped lead to this. Similarly, they have good ties with Namco Bandai that are resulting in notable partnership games on a larger scale. Studios that are only coming to them as a harbor of last resort are a much harder scenario to work with unless they're really confident in that studio's output.
 

Oregano

Member
Nirolak you forgot to mention that The Wonderful 101 was pitched as a Nintendo all stars game and Nintendo told them to make it a new IP. I wouldn't rule out Platinum making a new IP, or resurrecting a dead one, for Nintendo in the future but I would have to imagine it wouldn't be on the scope of The Wonderful 101 or Bayonetta.

On the second point if Imageepoch is going to survive then I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo throws more work their way, even if it's not funding their own projects. It depends how happy Nintendo was with their work, after all they are going to need even more support staff next gen.
 
To be released early in the 3DS's life could be a point, but then, why is Ocarina of Time still tracking this current week in position number 49 and ALBW is still dead?

nostalgia

people who bought MM 15 years ago now wants to play OoT again

both games are related in some ways (sane period, same gameplay in 3D), while ALBW is the sequel of a 25 years old 2D game
 

casiopao

Member
To Nirolak. Sorry can not quote ur reply on my old blackberry.

I feel that I see what u are saying now. In the case of Tri-Ace, Ninty is of course never going to help the company as they had almost never made any game or asset for Nintendo so their skill is more or less useless with them.

While Imageepoch, I can see a bit on how Ninty can help them as they are starting to work as Ninty helper recently on Yoshi New Island(that one sells quite well right? Even better than Kirby in WW)

If Imageepoch boss wanted to change their company into Camelot V2, I can see Ninty helping them as their asset or support company while once in a blue moon giving them chance with a new IP like Golden Sun to Camelot.
 

duckroll

Member
Nintendo doesn't help failing developers. They only acquire developers who are healthy and who they think can help make good games without going out of business. If Nintendo were in the business of helping failing developers who happened to make games for Nintendo, then Cing would not have closed shop. :p
 

casiopao

Member
Nintendo doesn't help failing developers. They only acquire developers who are healthy and who they think can help make good games without going out of business. If Nintendo were in the business of helping failing developers who happened to make games for Nintendo, then Cing would not have closed shop. :p

While i can agree with you on that, i feel that Imageepoch actually is much better deal than Cing as Cing never help Nintendo as their support team meanwhile Imageepoch had help Ninty on developing Yoshi: NI? But well, this is just my feeling lol.

And if i am not mistaken, isn't Monolith Soft also facing some problem when they are gotten by ninty? Or i am tripping here?
 

Oregano

Member
While i can agree with you on that, i feel that Imageepoch actually is much better deal than Cing as Cing never help Nintendo as their support team meanwhile Imageepoch had help Ninty on developing Yoshi: NI? But well, this is just my feeling lol.

And if i am not mistaken, isn't Monolith Soft also facing some problem when they are gotten by ninty? Or i am tripping here?

You are tripping. Monolith was owned by Namco.

They're also not going to save a developer just for them to be a support studio. They are just going to provide them with work as long as they are willing and able.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Nirolak you forgot to mention that The Wonderful 101 was pitched as a Nintendo all stars game and Nintendo told them to make it a new IP. I wouldn't rule out Platinum making a new IP, or resurrecting a dead one, for Nintendo in the future but I would have to imagine it wouldn't be on the scope of The Wonderful 101 or Bayonetta.

On the second point if Imageepoch is going to survive then I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo throws more work their way, even if it's not funding their own projects. It depends how happy Nintendo was with their work, after all they are going to need even more support staff next gen.
I think a Nintendo all stars title is kind of a lot of responsibility though.

If they had pitched something entirely with a lower end IP I feel that would have been different.

Platinum had enough of a track record to start at mid-sized new IP, but I'd be surprised if Nintendo signed them another one unless it was notably limited in scope since they didn't deliver the sales numbers.

I never got the sense Nintendo was continually willing to throw money down the drain, especially for a studio they don't own.

You are tripping. Monolith was owned by Namco.

They're also not going to save a developer just for them to be a support studio. They are just going to provide them with work as long as they are willing and able.
Yes, support work is very different than helming the entire game.
 

duckroll

Member
While i can agree with you on that, i feel that Imageepoch actually is much better deal than Cing as Cing never help Nintendo as their support team meanwhile Imageepoch had help Ninty on developing Yoshi: NI? But well, this is just my feeling lol.

This is nonsense. Sorry. A development studio which actually makes a game and has something unique to offer is far more valuable. Cing actually made games published by Nintendo. Imageepoch is not a "Nintendo support studio" by any means. They just did character animation or something for Yoshi. That's generic asset outsource work you can get from any studio anywhere. Buying a failing studio because they once helped do models and animation as contract work for some game you published which was actually developed by another studio is the most convoluted argument out there.
 

Oregano

Member
I think a Nintendo all stars title is kind of a lot of responsibility though.

If they had pitched something entirely with a lower end IP I feel that would have been different.

Platinum had enough of a track record to start at mid-sized new IP, but I'd be surprised if Nintendo signed them another one unless it was notably limited in scope since they didn't deliver the sales numbers.

I never got the sense Nintendo was continually willing to throw money down the drain, especially for a studio they don't own.

I meant in the sense that Platinum didn't approach Nintendo with the idea of making new IPs like they did with Sega. They approached with the intention of working on Nintendo IPs which is quite a difference.

Platinum seems to be receptive to the idea of making a portable game as well which I imagine would be a much easier pill for Nintendo to swallow if they're to work with them again.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
I meant in the sense that Platinum didn't approach Nintendo with the idea of making new IPs like they did with Sega. They approached with the intention of working on Nintendo IPs which is quite a difference.

Platinum seems to be receptive to the idea of making a portable game as well which I imagine would be a much easier pill for Nintendo to swallow if they're to work with them again.
Oh, yes, I think they were already trying to be as palatable as possible. That's a good point.

And yes, I suspect a handheld game would be easier to green light as they're usually notably less costly.
 

casiopao

Member
This is nonsense. Sorry. A development studio which actually makes a game and has something unique to offer is far more valuable. Cing actually made games published by Nintendo. Imageepoch is not a "Nintendo support studio" by any means. They just did character animation or something for Yoshi. That's generic asset outsource work you can get from any studio anywhere. Buying a failing studio because they once helped do models and animation as contract work for some game you published which was actually developed by another studio is the most convoluted argument out there.

Ohh. I see know. If the scope of the game they are making is that small, i don't Ninty is going to care whether Epoch died or not.T_T Sad day.

Well, Ninty is really having trouble there. They need to release more game if u ask me for this year. As their first party in 3DS front is a bit lacking? Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, Puzzle and Dragon Mario and only Girls Mode is not that much.T_T
 

hiska-kun

Member
GamesMaya's report

Today's Top 3 (Saturday):

1. [PSV] God Eater 2: Rage Burst
2. [PS4] The Order 1886
3. [PS4] God Eater 2: Rage Burst

Happy Anniversary PS4! (in Japan)
 

sörine

Banned
I think Nintendo's willingness to throw funding rests entirely on their relationship to the developer. And sometimes these are relationships that go back decades and through different companies.

In that sense I feel success or failure probably matters less. Camelot wasn't exactly in great shape after working for Capcom and trying to get their own PC game off the ground but Nintendo still went back them for software after a half decade estrangement. Nintendo also seems to have a strong preference working with key ex-Sega groups (Artoon/Arzest, Prope, Grounding) based on the staff itself, I've no doubt if Nagoshi were ever to leave Sega and strike out with his own company he wouldn't have much issue securing Nintendo contracts. Even Platinum isn't an entirely new relationship, it's a company loaded with Capcom vets that likely already have established relationships with Nintendo staff from past projects.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Ohh. I see know. If the scope of the game they are making is that small, i don't Ninty is going to care whether Epoch died or not.T_T Sad day.

Well, Ninty is really having trouble there. They need to release more game if u ask me for this year. As their first party in 3DS front is a bit lacking? Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, Puzzle and Dragon Mario and only Girls Mode is not that much.T_T
The 3DS has third party games so it's not as much of an issue.

The system is flat year over year despite not much on the first party front.

To give an example of just how far you can go if you have good third party support, Sony has released just about jack shit that was relevant since the PS4 launched, yet it has had phenomenal sales.
 
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