Moor-Angol
Banned
all games except for Magic School are Q1 2015 titles, I don't think those are bad numbers
if most of those game should have a release in 2-3 weeks, I would have agreed with you
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Media Create Sales: Week 50, 2014 (Dec 08 - Dec 14)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
all games except for Magic School are Q1 2015 titles, I don't think those are bad numbers
if most of those game should have a release in 2-3 weeks, I would have agreed with you
Have you considered that it might be because Tales as a series sells far more in Japan than in the west? That's a pretty good reason. Not every franchise or title has the same circumstances. Naruto appears to sell very well worldwide, which is a good incentive for them to move on. Tekken 7 is also on PS4.
Kresnik258
Member
Aren't Kenka Bancho & Legend of Legacy out for 3DS in January? The former was a pretty strong seller on PSP. Should be able to quite comfortably outsell Etrian Odyssey given the history of both series:
86 PSP Kenka Bancho 4: Ichinen Sensou 72,923 / 179,354
194 NDS Etrian Odyssey II: Heroes of Lagaard 85,555 / 145,421
Don't know what we should be expecting from LoL, but it seems to be getting more exposure than FuRyu's usual anime-adaptation stuff.
Yeah, Naruto and Tekken get most of their sales from the west.
Pennywise83
Banned
KB is not a big seller, but it usually had a nice history of 100k+ entries. I'm not sure whether the 3DS entry will sell well at this point, given preorders; userbase might not be there, compared to EO. Also, KB4 was the highest selling entry, and from there onwards it declined a lot.
Kresnik258
Member
I don't get the bolded. It's not a big seller but it had a history of 100k entries?
If you're saying that a consistent 100k+ series isn't a big seller, then fair enough, but in terms of the kind of developer we're talking about then I think it is (it's perfectly in line with Spike Chunsoft's other original series, apart from Way of the Samurai's explosion on the PS2).
And certainly, in a paragraph where Devil Survivor is considered a major seller:
254 NDS Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor 56,689 / 106,997
Yeah...
@ italics, absolutely, but it only declined significantly with the final PSP entry, which from what I can gather from the name was a spin off?
287 PSP Kenka Bancho Bros.: Tokyo Battle Royale 18,810 / 56,776
Other than that, it was ups and downs but always in the same ballpark:
126 PSP Kenka Bancho: Badass Rumble 48,685 / 141,627
86 PSP Kenka Bancho 4: Ichinen Sensou 72,923 / 179,354
108 PSP Kenka Bancho 5: Otoko no Rule 64,358 / 160,144
Platform change is the reason to doubt 6 won't do the same as the previous 3 entries, but still. I'd expect it to show up on COMG and be a relatively decent seller in January, unless the fanbase didn't move across to 3DS (which I find kinda unlikely)
Sammy Samusu
Member
How innocent of you guys. :lol
You will buy Zestiria twice and like it.
Pennywise83
Banned
A series that on average sold around 130-140k with mainline entries is not a big seller; it's a medium-sized seller in my opinion. Also, I never considered DS as a big seller, since it might not even cracked the 100k mark (and the series never was big to begin with).
Kresnik258
Member
My posts were all to do with the fact that Etrian Odyssey & Devil Survivor were considered notable titles in upcoming release schedules but Kenka Bancho wasn't, since that was the post I was responding to.
Which is why I was posting numbers to show that the series is bigger than either of those two listed.
That's all
(We seem to have gotten off-track discussing big sellers. I agree with you, in absolute terms, none of these series are big. I just wasn't sure why you were bringing that up with me if you'd read the post I was responding to).
KillerMan91
Member
PS3 only release will kill their western sales though. Xillia sold pretty well in the west for Tales of game.
Refreshment.01
Member
Of course it was about Tales but this caveat was added:The discussion here isn't about PS4, it's about ToZ's sales.
As long as PS3 keeps getting multiplatform software it won't die easily.
Which is something that has been pointed out several times in the Media Create threads. It just happens that i've been wanting to comment on this for a long time and when i had the time to do so this was the quickest reference i had, even if it touched upon the issue tangentially or minimally. XD
It's different to the Vita's case thought, since there are no cuarrent generation alternatives for home console gamers to the PS4 in Japan.
Related to the above, i don't still get the attitude of Japanese developers that are still operating in the more traditional video game market model. They made the PS4 their betting horse (and with reason), yet they refuse to do like wise for the dedicated handhelds, that is... to consolidate the audience around one device, the 3DS in this case. Think this type of strategy reflects they are invested too much in the short term.
That's true but I'm not convinced the home console gamer is really a thing any more.
As for your other point I completely agree. Publishers have been bizarrely reluctant to support the 3DS and I think there is a weird perception issue with it. The main example would be Bravely Default's success IMO; I feel that the game's success owes quite a bit to being on the 3DS but SE has just seen it as a success of a mid-tier project. If anything it seems to have convinced them to support the Vita more.
EDIT: Another example would be Tales doing better on 3DS but Baba insisting the fanbase is on Vita. Reve Unitia's tepid reception will probanly be held against the 3DS.
Moor-Angol
Banned
Both sound like joke replies to me.
so which are the strong titles for 3DS before March? I checked gamefaqs release list, I don't think there are TBA games for the next 2 months, an interesting title should be Terra Formars but I think it's a spring release
actual amazon top100 (22:00 JP time) :
Etrian Odissey spin-off #36
Bravely Second #76 (April release)
Theatrhythm DQ #77 (March release)
Blame Nintendo and their underpowered handhelds, not third parties.
If 3DS could easily support PS3 engines and assets it would be getting those games. It's easier and cheaper to build from what they have.
It would help a lot but it's kinda bullshit to suggest that it's all down to that. Vita's biggest games aren't using PS3 engine and assets.
Persona 4 and FFX/X-2 are remastered PS2 games, God Eater 2 and Toukiden were both PSP games and they made new assets specifically for the Vita versions. The new SaGa game might be reusing an engine but there are no PS3 assets to use.
Tecmo Koei is really the only publisher reusing their PS3 stuff on Vita.
There are none.
Sammy Samusu
Member
Have we entered the annual 3DS doom cycle?
Namco doesn't consider the west when making Tales platform decisions. Like ever.
There have been many PS3/PSV multiplatform games. I didn't see PS3 software share disappearing. One is a new handheld with much bigger install base than PS4, the other an 8 years old console.
Nightengale
Member
Do they even need one?
I would say that bullshit is implying that 2 games announced before Vita was even out (upgraded late ports, one of them not exclusive), 2 multiplatform games and one game where all we have seen is one piece of artwork mean that Vita is to blame for third parties not consolidating the handheld business on the 3DS.
On the other hand we have games from almost every major franchise released exclusively on 3DS .
michaelius
Banned
Saying doom cycle suggests there are no problems ahead of 3DS and it's just stupid talk.
Meanwhile it's sales are down compared to previous year and new revision which was supposed to reverse decline so far failed to do it.
After Smash Nintendo doesn't really have any big software title that could bring new audiences to it as they released all of their typical big games so they will most likely concentrate on sequels which move much less hardware as we have seen with MH4G , Pokemon remake or next part of YW.
Interceptor
Banned
January direct. Yes, thats a thing that exists. Wait for it. As every year.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Will it? I'm not convinced that's true at all. Tales is a fairly niche series in the west, and most of that audience has been on the PS3 for the last 5 years. The PS4 has been picked up pretty quickly, but almost every notable game has been a big, AAA western title. Just because that audience has moved on doesn't mean the niche JRPG audience has done the same (especially because this is an audience in general that buys the games where they're available). Hell, Persona 4 was a big success on the PS2 in the west in 2008, at a point in which nearly every other publisher had abandoned the platform.
Plus, keeping in mind that the majority of sales will come in Japan anyway, PS3 only seems like the only logical choice for Namco.
Pennywise83
Banned
3DS sales are down because the hardware entered its maturity phase, which is regular business for a platform entering its 5th year in the market. 3DS also had explosive sales during the first 3 years, only behind DS heydays, henceforth its long-term sustainability was always meant to be shorter than usual.
The revision is helping 3DS to not fall off the cliff, and eventually the YTD will surpass the 3m mark, an unthinkable result for many people, which at the beginning of the year forecasted a 50%+ decline from 2013 (YTD around 2-2.3m).
Furthermore, Nintendo is the company that released a 3-million seller in 2008 on DS out of nowhere (i.e. Tomodachi Collection); that released Pokémon when GB was basically dead, extending its life another 5 years; YW is proving that 3DS has the potential to get hits that are difficult to forecast: Level-5's game was nothing until one year, and now it's the biggest IP of the year. Not saying that Nintendo will be able to completely change 3DS fate, but that the company has more knowledge of the Japanese market than anyone outhere. For example, if properly marketed, I can see amiibo doing very well in Japan: ad-hoc games, third parties collaboration (YW), and so on.
This is 3DS 2015 line-up as we are aware of:
January
- The Legend of Legacy (FuRyu) - Jan 22nd
- Devil Survivor 2: Break Record (Atlus) - Jan 29th
- Yowamushi Pedal (Bandai Namco) - Jan 29th
- Ace Combat 3D: Cross Rumble + (Bandai Namco) - Jan 29th
- Kenka Bancho 6: Soul & Blood - TBA
February
- Lost Heroes 2 (Bandai Namco) - Feb 4th
- The Seven Deadly Sins: Unjust Sin (Bandai Namco) - Feb 11th
- Kiniro no Corda 3: Full Voice Edition (Koei Tecmo) - Feb 26th
March
- Etrian Odyssey Mystery Dungeon (Atlus) - Mar 5th
- Doraemon: Nobitas Space Hero Record of Space Heroes (FuRyu) - Mar 5th
- New Prince of Tennis ~Go to the Top~ (Konami) - Mar 5th
- Theatrhythm Dragon Quest (Square Enix) - Mar 26th
April
- Bravely Second (Square Enix) - Apr 23rd
TBA 2015
- Stella Glow (imageepoch) - Winter
- Rodea: The Sky Soldier (Kadokawa) - Spring
- Code Name: S.T.E.A.M. Lincoln VS Aliens (Nintendo) - Spring
- Hatsune Miku: Project Mirai Deluxe (SEGA) - Spring
- Tribe Cool Crew: THE G@ME (Bandai Namco) - Spring
- The Legend of Zelda: Majoras Mask 3D (Nintendo) - Spring
- Terra Formars: Akaki Hoshi no Gekitou (FuRyu) - Spring
- Atelier Roron (Tecmo Koei) - TBA
- Dai Gyakuten Saiban (Capcom) - TBA
- Kurokos Basketball: Ties to the Future (Bandai Namco) - TBA
- PoPoLoCrois Harvest Moon (Marvelous) - TBA
- Xenoblade Chronicles (Nintendo) - TBA
- Kaio: King of Pirates (Marvelous) - TBA
Nothing spectacular, but a solid flow of games. Notice also that 3DS will have holidays leftovers, such as Pokémon, YW2, and SSB, unless other platforms. Those games will chart throughout the 2015.
Sammy Samusu
Member
You mean the same 3DS that is on track to sell 20M? Yeah, it's definitely slowing down, it will never reach 40M at this rate.
:s
Moor-Angol
Banned
so why you said both my replies were ironic when you agree with me ?
from March good seller titles will come, no doubt about this, but January and February is pretty a weak line-up, that's the reason the comgnet chart has just one 3DS game actually (and that's the point which the discussion started from)
it will be interesting the comparison between Q1 2014 and Q1 2015, this year 3DS had DQMJ2 and Kirby which helped hw sales, meanwhile this year a strong title (I mean >500-600k) is missing
and sorry for changing topic but, I don't know if it has been already discussed cause, you know, recently I had a "week holiday" (lol) but I'm very curious about YW2.5 second week...
which are titles with the strongest 2nd week ?
this week the game was sold-out in some places but seems like it has been restocked (Bic Camera and Yodobashi were selling it normally this weekend), and the anime debutting in theatres from yesterday probably gave another (big) push to the sales
astrogamer
Member
A few additions to that list
Kenka Bancho 6 - Jan 15
Atelier Rorona - March 26
Kuroko’s Basketball: Ties to the Future - March 26
Terra Formars - April 2
The Seven Deadly Sins: Unjust Sin (Bandai Namco) - Feb 11
PriPara & Pretty Rhythm (Bandai Namco)-March 19
Lego Batman 3 (Warner Bros.) - April
Assasination Classroom: Grand Siege on Kurosensei (Bandai Namco) - TBA
Those weren't just random games. Correct me if I'm wrong but those four are the highest selling third party Vita games. I'm not "blaming" Vita either, I'm just pointing out that it's a conscious decision and not based solely on what games are technically feasible on the 3DS.
If I "blame" anything it would be that third parties still don't see Nintendo platforms as a place to succeed and Nintendo hasn't done enough to change that.
I feel that's a bit disingenuous as well. The 3DS technically has exclusive Final Fantasy games but Theatrhythm and FF Explorers are both low tier spinoffs, not even on the level of FFX/X-2 Remasters. Out of major franchises it's only really Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter and Level 5 stuff that stands out as 3DS focused.
Tales: Two remakes vs a PS2-port and a port of a mobile spinoff
Metal Gear Solid: HD Collection vs MGS3 port/remake(example of tech coming into play)
Resident Evil: Revelations 2 vs Revelations and Mercenaries 3D(only the latter is exclusive)
Musou: A plethora of games(because of ease of porting) vs Dynasty Warriors Vs and Samurai Warriors Chronicles(now on Vita too).
There are more minor franchises like Tekken, Ace Combat and Shin Megami Tensei that have only appeared on 3DS though, that is true. But the 3DS has literally sold fivefold what Vita has and moves a ton more software too, it should be getting more and bigger games than Vita.
EDIT: Oh wait I forgot Kingdom Hearts. That's definitely an example of a major franchise appearing on 3DS and not Vita.
"Only" those games? You mean 3DS only gets games from the now 3 biggest third party franchises in Japan? Certainly a position no console would want to be.
Tales: The two ugliest, lowest budget remakes ever released that no one asked for and already playable on the 3DS vs a port of a hugely successful game. I wouldn't say 3DS got a bad deal.
MGS: Tech related. PS3 ports
Resident Evil: Bad example. Sony has to pay and even develop the game in house.
Musou: Tech related. PS3 ports
But I really don't want to start commenting on specific games or franchises. Again, if 3DS could run those games third parties would put most of them there.
The reality is that companies now make less games and want to take fewer risks. Going multiplatform and sharing technology between platforms helps lessen the potential risks. That helps the Vita. It's not about not wanting to support the 3DS.
Pennywise83
Banned
"only"... They are "only" the biggest third party IPs outhere
Anyway, 3DS has console-exclusive Puzzle & Dragons (1.5m); Run for Money (600k); Disney Magic Castle (500k), Ac Attorney (400k); handheld exclusive Taiko Drum Master (500k).
"only"... They are "only" the biggest third party IPs outhere
Yokai Watch became that success on the 3DS though, it wasn't the biggest third party IP before that(it didn't exist before that!). As for DQ it looks like they are skipping 3DS for mainline games despite the fact DQIX on the DS was the most popular game in the series and it sounds like the spin offs might not be 3DS bound either.
Keep in mind we are talking about the far and away market leader here as well. It has sold nearly 15 million more pieces of hardware than any other current gen system.
The first Revelations was almost certainly a moneyhat from Nintendo too. At least for timed exclusivity.
Puzzle & Dragons and Taiko are good examples too I must admit. Run for Money and Disney Magic Castle are again both examples of games becoming that big on 3DS and they definitely were not given the budget of games of that caliber. On the opposite end of the spectrum Phantasy Star Nova is still a major exclusive and show of support for Vita despite the fact it will struggle to get to 200K
This hypothesis is spiralling out of control.
so why you said both my replies were ironic when you agree with me ?
Suggesting that Devil Survivor 2 BR is a big title is a huge joke.
Really? Because numbers don't show that.
This is a sentiment that comes up from time to time, but I think when we break everything apart what's going on doesn't seem very strange.
1.) The biggest platform in Japan (and the one with the broadest audience) is mobile, which removes some major games that would have been brain dead obvious DS releases last gen.
2.) The PS4/XB1/PC/(360/PS3) is usually what you want to target if you're aiming primarily for overseas sales, especially given that Japanese mobile games have had issues taking off in the West.
3.) Sony usually gives out a lot of handouts to help secure content in certain demographics for their platforms, which then builds a healthy audience in that demographic. This gen they've also made it much easier to make a game cross platform in their ecosystem so you can hit that demographic on all their platforms at once. This is mostly appealing to certain types of smaller (20-150K) or mid (150-300K) titles. We still see almost everything at the 300K plus range that doesn't appeal worldwide on 3DS. It's just that this type of game is pretty rare in the first place.
4.) Then we have greater Asia. If you want to appeal to greater Asia you are going to make a PC game (usually online/MMO, browser, and/or f2p) or mobile as those are the only big markets there.
I would say that the 3DS still gets a good line-up given all this. They have the biggest local market dedicated games, and a variety of local market niche and sometimes mid sized games that publishers feel aren't more ideal for the Sony system demographic.
Sammy Samusu
Member
I wonder if Shinuchi will be front-loaded like most expansions.
metalslimer
Member
The Smash Bros 3DS vs Wii U battle this week will be interesting.
I do agree with you mostly and I'm definitely not saying 3DS has a bad lineup(it wouldn't be my main system if it didn't have a good lineup) but I feel the bolded is the crux of it. To get back to the original point Refreshment.01 that really isn't a thing for home consoles. The only franchise not on PS3/4 for demographic reasons is Taiko right now and that will probably not be true for long. Third parties have gone to the effort of making sure those demographics are consolidated on the one system. There has been no such effort on the 3DS, third parties are happy to support either 3DS, Vita or both.
On a related note third parties have done a piss poor job of chasing demographics that are clearly on the 3DS. FF Explorers shouldn't be the first 3DS game appealing to MonHun players two years after MH3G, Stella Glow shouldn't be the first 3DS game appealing to Fire Emblem fans three years after Awakening(also the new Luminious Arc being a Vita game wat) and Legend of Legacy shouldn't be the first 3DS game appealing to Bravely fans two years after BD released.
Refreshment.01
Member
Yours is a well constructed post that it is awesome to read as a theorical. Not saying this as an offense to be clear, but in reality the user base difference between both systems in Japan is so massive any merits those 4 statements have are outweighted.
Had the roles been reversed the 3DS wouldn't even get the games that traditionaly make sense in the Nintendo user base.
The technology/hardware capability and asset crossover claim does have merit. But i think it falls down in how these developers are thinking in the short term. If they committed to one device the audience will follow and the reward would be a bigger user base to target while potentially assimilating users that might not be familiar with your products. Most of these projects from low to mid tier developers are mostly PS2 era equivalent in terms of complexity, something that the 3DS could handle, of course while looking uglier than the Vita. Also, most of the games Vita is getting doesn't have overseas appeal.
In other circunstances, i would have zero quibbles with your pov Nirolak.
That probably ensured that any significant KH game would never go portable again.
Right, while I didn't state it strongly, this is where I feel Sony's incentives come very strongly into play.
Say you pay 20% of your revenue for each game in licensing fees to the first party. This would be consistent with the $12 fixed cost of printing a retail console game in the West. The retail margin is also around $12, with the other $36 heading back to you if your game is a full priced $60 game.
If Sony says "If you make a game for Vita, we won't charge you that licensing fee, and we will also pay to market your game," you're effectively getting a 33% boost in profit per unit sold ($36 * 1.33333 = $48) and you don't have to pay for your baseline marketing.
So, in this scenario, unless you think that you can sell more than 33% more copies on 3DS (plus whatever your marketing costs are), the appeal of making your game for 3DS is low. Now, if you're a big franchise or an aggressive publisher, then unit sales losses are at the too if your mind. However, most titles and publishers are very conservative these days so the Sony scenario sounds really appealing.
Now, those benefits lessen with further iterations on a platform, but at that point your audience is already there, and chances are good you're still getting something to help seal the deal.
Essentially Sony pulls a lot of financial levers to secure support and as far as I can tell Nintendo is largely unwilling to play the same game.
Well, those are also incentives, but I don't think one could really explain this otherwise.
Like why on earth would a bunch of Western publishers make PSP games in 2010 based on games like Army of Two without this, to take one of the most flagrant cases?
We've had various people explain how these types of deals work before, and we see Sony signing things like Street Fighter, so I really don't feel it's a stretch. However, I don't have any specific publicly available article declaring this, you are correct.
It is not impossible these developers all signed on to a basically dead platform with moderately sized games solely for technological reasons, though I personally find it improbable.
Also a key note is that they're not literally paying, but rather opting to not take money in licensing fees and doing things like comarketing in which money theoretically never changes hands since generally you always want to keep cash in a business.
Edit:
Here is a guy at SCEA who lists his job as signing comarketing and exclusivity deals: https://www.linkedin.com/in/geralddmartin
I feel it's very likely SCEJ has similar positions.
Bruno MB
Member
Code:
[B]Top 10 biggest second week sales:[/B]
01. [PSX] Dragon Quest VII: Fighters of Eden (Enix) {2000.08.26} - 1.072.286 / 2.934.351
02. [NDS] Pokémon Black / White (Pokémon Co.) {2010.09.18} - 772.172 / 3.409.457
03. [NDS] Dragon Quest IX: Sentinels of the Starry King (Square Enix) {2009.07.11} - 602.856 / 2.946.296
04. [3DS] Pokémon X / Y (Pokémon Co.) {2013.10.12} - 591.025 / 2.687.075
05. [PS2] Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King (Square Enix) {2004.11.27} - 559.524 / 2.796.405
06. [PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 2nd G (Capcom) {2008.03.27} - 552.701 / 1.375.966
07. [PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 3rd (Capcom) {2010.12.01} - 514.198 / 2.660.665
08. [NDS] Pokémon Heart Gold / Soul Silver (Pokémon Co.) {2009.09.12} - 492.385 / 1.901.365
09. [GBA] Pokémon Ruby / Sapphire (Pokémon Co.) {2002.11.21} - 471.538 / 1.716.541
10. [WII] New Super Mario Bros. Wii (Nintendo) {2009.12.03} - 464.824 / 1.401.558I almost forgot how insanely big Dragon Quest VII second week sales were, it's a record I don't think will ever be broken. The only title that came relatively close to beat it was Pokémon Black / White with almost 800.000 units sold. It's worth noting that Dragon Quest VII was heavily supply constrained. Its initial shipment was 2 million units, a low figure considering the genre was at its peak during the PlayStation era and it was the first mainline Dragon Quest on that platform. If Final Fantasy VIII managed to sell 2,5 million units in its first week, imagine how much Dragon Quest VII could have sold with enough stock, at least a similar amount. Even Final Fantasy IX released a month before (what a crazy combo!) sold nearly 2 million copies in its launch. For the second week Enix shipped an additional 1,2 million units.
With Dragon Quest VIII they had already learned the lesson and this time they shipped 2,8 million units.
[PS2] Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King (Square Enix) {2004.11.27} - 2.236.881 / NEW <79,7%> [2.808.051 units shipped]