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Madflavor
Member
“Duh duh duh incels and duh chuds, and duh male patriarchy in a patriarchal society of patriarchs. Toxicity. And then that’s how Trump happened.”
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Buggy Loop
Member
Yup, total hypocrisy if true, on top of you know… making the fucking Joker movie.
Edit- ah ok, not a real quote. Todd Phillips is still done for lol, nobody in Hollywood will send a dime his way now.
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Kraz
Member
Heh, Folie a deux in real life. Delusional People responding to shared fabricated reality to mistakenly lash out at an imagined oppression and look like a strongman fantasy hero in their heads.
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kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
A community note has now been added to the tweet with the fake Hollywood Reporter screenshot:
"Most likely, the screenshot is fake. The original article can't be found on the internet, only references to this same screenshot.It seems to have originated from this 4chan thread on Oct 7th:boards.4chan.org/co/thread/1458…Many commenters in the same thread also indicate that the screenshot is fake."
"Most likely, the screenshot is fake. The original article can't be found on the internet, only references to this same screenshot.It seems to have originated from this 4chan thread on Oct 7th:boards.4chan.org/co/thread/1458…Many commenters in the same thread also indicate that the screenshot is fake."
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ManaByte
Banned
Doesn't matter if it's fake. The outage it incites is enough for people to ignore that and spread it everywhere. That's how the internet works in 2024.
Revolutionary
Member
That's why Community Notes exist - to help curb this kind of shit.
ManaByte
Banned
99% of people overlook them. And you can't even see them until they've been approved.
LegendOfKage
Member
They need to embed with the tweet itself, but I'm still really glad they have them. I noticed this one because I opened the tweet to see if the full image was larger and if it showed the publication.
ManaByte
Banned
Exactly. All Tweet embeds don't show them, so on forums like this where the Tweet gets embedded people just see the bullshit made to incite outrage and just continue to comment on it as if it was real.
Kraz
Member
That sort of thing has been going on for awhile.
A person has to have a lack of judgement or wilful ignorance to accept an unlinked cropped image of a news article as reality to respond to in 2024. Even recently there was so much of that nonsense with covid and unlinked altered images of news articles. Most people who lived through that should have an experienced level of online discernment and find their zen instead of the clown makeup.
Angry_Megalodon
Banned
You don't need any quotes to see this throughout the movie.
The trial plot is a god-awful "metaphor" in which fans are judged and Joker is used as their avatar. It has the subtlety of a pink elephant. HQ actions are a fuck off not to Joker but to the audience. The director is speaking through her, that character is 100% a self-insert with no other dramatic arc than preaching to the fandom.
I don't care about whatever Tood Philips says, his movie speaks for him, loud and clear.
This deluded man went the insane route of many who sabotaged themselves in the name of virtue signaling. Fuck him and WB.
Anyway, this is just a warm-up for the next Superman. That one will be hilarious.
The trial plot is a god-awful "metaphor" in which fans are judged and Joker is used as their avatar. It has the subtlety of a pink elephant. HQ actions are a fuck off not to Joker but to the audience. The director is speaking through her, that character is 100% a self-insert with no other dramatic arc than preaching to the fandom.
I don't care about whatever Tood Philips says, his movie speaks for him, loud and clear.
This deluded man went the insane route of many who sabotaged themselves in the name of virtue signaling. Fuck him and WB.
Anyway, this is just a warm-up for the next Superman. That one will be hilarious.
Saber
Gold Member
Probably for the same reason Indiana Jones Dial flopped hard, heavy paying from the actors. I'm willing to guess Gaga demand huge amounts of money, maybe not bigger than Harrison Ford did.
ManaByte
Banned
Dial of Destiny had a ton of VFX though. The entire first thirty minutes had Ford de-aged to his 40s.
Not 300 million worth though. I don't know what the hell is going on with movie budgets these days, especially Disney, (but also stuff like Joker 2), but it sure isn't going to humans standing on set or in VFX houses. Yeah, Covid precautions added some cost, but there is straight up embezzling on a mass scale when you compare some of these films and see what 70 mill gets you on one project and 300 on another.
Consider the new Capt A 4 coming out. 350 MILLION!!! 100 million in reshoots!! Who the hell is approving this stuff? 80 mill for Downey jr to come back as a villain? It's just bananas because somewhere out there is a massive sucking sound of dollars.
About the only silver lining is I don't think media corps like Disney or WB would be considered "too big to fail" and get gov bailouts when these studios collapse. Though as we allow them to metastasize more and more and take over all media, they can just write the narrative they want.
I'm willing to consider that the STUDIO inflates the budget because it's getting tax kickbacks that are maximized if they 'pay' $5000 a meal to a catering company that then kickbacks $4950 back to various studio subsidiaries but then squeeze the local government for a massive tax rebate. Hollywood accounting is notoriously fabricated but no one cares because it's all SHOWBIZ and all the folks in a position to do anything about it are getting their palms greased or starlets sent to their office for "private interviews".
I see better stuff on instagram, folks that can craft a 3 minute short that distills an entire films worth of emotions, set-up, and payoff. Allllll the talent is going there for clicks, leaving just the has-beens and never-weres to do hollywood.
ManaByte
Banned
Iger ordered the movie delayed an entire year and reshot more than a third of the movie. They completely erased Seth Rollins from it and replaced his character with Giancarlo Esposito.
ManaByte
Banned
The Acolyte budget came from shooting on location internationally. That speculation about services provided originated from a culture war clickbait site that also made up a fake number from the budget. People complained that the Volume looked cheap in Mandalorian and Obi-Wan so for Andor and Acolyte they filmed on location. Andor was filmed mostly around London and Wales, but Acolyte went more international and that shit's expensive.
DRAKKO
Banned
thanks bobby, wherever you need personal advice from a grown up, im here kiddo. ; )
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Nope. According to Variety $20 million went to the director, $20 million to Joaquin Phoenix and $12 to Lady Gaga.
My point is how does it get so bad in the first place? These marvel films are so mapped out for action scenes, how the hell does a 66yo man step in to replace stuff made for a gigantic wrestler? Even if his acting was wooden as hell, he shouldn't be saying much of anything, get getting to the next action scene. Plenty of films survive a flat villain. Were the reshoots enough to generate an extra 250 MILLION in bo to cover the costs? That was an entire mid-level film they could have made!!!
ManaByte
Banned
Esposito isn't the main villain.
Tim Blake Nelson's The Leader is the main villain. He's the primary Hulk villain and the movie is the direct lead-in to World War Hulk. It's like when people were crying that Guardians of the Galaxy was going to be the first MCU flop and it's the direct lead-in to Infinity War/Endgame.
Not saying he was the main villain, but how does an old man replace a giant wrestler within the context of the rest of the film and HOW DOES THAT COST 100 MILLION? Bad enough how it looked in Army of the Dead for just a paltry couple mill, but good grief they must have reshot half the film!
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
I'm a little lost here.
Cap4 leads to World War Hulk? I thought that shipped had sailed considering that's a Banner story, who is now loving life as the goofy profesor Hulk.
digoutyoursoul
Member
She was reportedly paid 12m
ManaByte
Banned
Nope. He went back to Sakaar and brought back Skaar.
Ross/Red Hulk, Leader, Betty, and Amadeus Cho are in Cap 4.
So after Cap 4 there are five Hulks in the MCU not counting Abomination.
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Oh good grief, thats like 4 Hulks too many and they ALL LOOK TERRIBLE!Nope. He went back to Sakaar and brought back Skaar.
Ross/Red Hulk, Leader, Betty, and Amadeus Cho are in Cap 4.
So after Cap 4 there are five Hulks in the MCU not counting Abomination.
The Hulk CG has been getting progressively worse since Ang Lee, change my mind!
Doom85
Member
You’re comparing a show’s (She-Hulk) CGI to a movie. You can’t be serious-
Oh okay, you weren’t being serious, just having some fun, gotcha.
I mean, I can’t imagine anyone actually thinking this shit looks better than the MCU Hulk generally does.
Granted, I might be biased since Hulk 2003 was quite possibly the most frustrating, hard-to-stay-awake-during film to come out that decade, and that’s saying something since Superman Returns was that decade as well. I think Incredible Hulk, while decent, is one of the weakest MCU films for me, and yet it might as well be The Dark Knight compared to this lame ass shit. I know 2003 Hulk has its fans, but I am definitely not one of them. Fucking Hulk poodles, coked out acting dad becomes a bunch of smoke, seriously what were they on when they wrote the script for this one?!
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NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
You’re comparing a show’s (She-Hulk) CGI to a movie. You can’t be serious-
Oh okay, you weren’t being serious, just having some fun, gotcha.
I mean, I can’t imagine anyone actually thinking this shit looks better than the MCU Hulk generally does.
Granted, I might be biased since Hulk 2003 was quite possibly the most frustrating, hard-to-stay-awake-during film to come out that decade, and that’s saying something since Superman Returns was that decade as well. I think Incredible Hulk, while decent, is one of the weakest MCU films for me, and yet it might as well be The Dark Knight compared to this lame ass shit. I know 2003 Hulk has its fans, but I am definitely not one of them. Fucking Hulk poodles, coked out acting dad becomes a bunch of smoke, seriously what were they on when they wrote the script for this one?!
Ang Lee Hulk is Best Hulk Film and the CGI used for that Hulk was
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I'm ALWAYS serious when discussing the best feature of ANY superhero film....
I dunno, the difference between 2003 and 2020-whatever was the last theatrical Hulk aint that much, and I think Ang Lee had a better comic look
But then again, MY Hulk is, and ALWAYS WILL BE, this guy...
If they just went back to jacked to the tits 'roided out wrestlers/bodybuilders as Hulks, especially given the perspective photography and a little bit of CG assistance they could do nowadays, I think the Hulk could be a worthy film star. But as a CG doofus it's best to keep him as a cameo IMHO.
Just look at these MONSTERS! Back them off a few weeks so they don't die on dehydration on set and you'd STILL have some insane physiques.
Doom85
Member
Doom85
Member
I'm ALWAYS serious when discussing the best feature of ANY superhero film....
I dunno, the difference between 2003 and 2020-whatever was the last theatrical Hulk aint that much, and I think Ang Lee had a better comic look
But then again, MY Hulk is, and ALWAYS WILL BE, this guy...
If they just went back to jacked to the tits 'roided out wrestlers/bodybuilders as Hulks, especially given the perspective photography and a little bit of CG assistance they could do nowadays, I think the Hulk could be a worthy film star. But as a CG doofus it's best to keep him as a cameo IMHO.
Just look at these MONSTERS! Back them off a few weeks so they don't die on dehydration on set and you'd STILL have some insane physiques.
-gotta be honest, never been into her but especially not in this film, she seemed dead inside in her performance
-well, two problems: 1) it’s difficult to find guys built on that high a level who can also act worth a damn, and 2) it’s a downgrade to what the Hulk should look like, yes the character is one who should be CGI, the comic character is designed to be bigger than any human being.
The old Hulk show gets a pass because it’s an old show, it could never be able to pull off how the comic portrayed Hulk as this massive being impossible to achieve through ordinary human capabilities, so criticizing it for that would be unfair as they did the best with what they could achieve, but we don’t need to go back to that sort of limitation now. Let an impossibly gigantic character be an impossibly gigantic character.
Last time they tried to scale such a character down to a human’s size, we got “Apocalypse” from X-men: Apocalypse.
I give Kingpin’s live-action portrayals a pass since Kingpin’s height/build is not enhanced with super powers, he’s just naturally very tall and also got really strong without super powers. Generally, as long as the character’s appearance height/weight size isn’t majorly affected by their superpowers and such, keeping it as just the actor’s build is fine, otherwise, no, you need to CGI it. It’s why I will always prefer Deadpool 2’s Juggernaut over X-men 3’s Juggernaut (well, that and DP 2’s one actually fought Colossus, while X3 just had him chasing Kitty, yaaaaaaaaay).
"You see the Joker isn't a man, but an idea." read that in the joker voice.
Hey, don't kink shame me!!!
The acting is a big suss, though I'd say the average wrestler pretends to be The Hulk basically every night so they should be able to do it.
And if they can make Tom Cruise and RDJ look tall and somehow make 5'9" Hardy seem larger than 6' Bale then its really perspective camera work.
PLENTY of big wrestlers and muscle bound actors that could do a practical hulk, hell even with a muscle suit and a bit of CG to hide any seams/add some veins /striations.
I just think a Hulk film with CG Hulks in the entire film is not what I wanna see.
SkylineRKR
Member
Joker 1 was already a shit movie that kind of aped King of Comedy and Taxi Driver. The sequel I can sum up in one word:
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.1
I welcomed joker 1, joker 2 and no Batman? Good luck.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
Damn, I've never seen the knives out for one man so blatantly before. They're going to end him.
Inside the ‘Joker: Folie à Deux’ Debacle: Todd Phillips ‘Wanted Nothing to Do’ With DC on the $200 Million Misfire
Todd Phillips “wanted nothing to do with DC” during the making of the film and refused to test screen the $200 million comic book sequel.variety.com
Warspite
Member
I think that is a sign of how bad this movie is doing, someone needs to take the fall for it and it looks like its going to be Todd. (might be his fault, might not be) but the narrative is being spun.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Although Phoenix had the initial idea for a sequel, Todd directed, cowrote and was one of the producers.
In that regard it's easy to point the finger at Todd Phillips. However, Phillips was also given full autonomy by WB, including the final cut.
I'd say WB are ultimately at fault for giving Phillips carte blanche to make this film.
Well, whoever shook all the couches at WB and somehow came up with TWO HUNDRED MILLION in loose change to make this thing....THAT'S who I blame.
If this was a 40 mill "passion project" or just a cheap moneygrab to capitalize on the first film's success then I'd understand it, but this thing cost MAJOR bucks! Was no exec reviewing the daily's and thinking it was time to pump the brakes on this thing? Who OK'd TWELVE MILLION for Lady Gaga?!?
This film is the level of epic disaster that should rock studios to their very foundations. Maybe that's already happened when Gunn came in, they ALL knew this was coming, but HOW FUCKING BAD was Batgirl (and Scooby Doo) that it had to die but this lived?
Warspite
Member
I think both of you are correct, you don't give someone $200 million and give no oversight, so WB will have a part to play in its failure but you can see everyone desperately trying to pin it on someone. Its easier to pin on Todd than some nameless suit at WB.
Remember this is the film studio that in the Comic book movie boom somehow fuck up a Justice League film (let that sink in for a second) and Bat girl was the final film in a hopeless universe that was failing to make money, this was a sequel to a billion dollar and much respected movie, so it couldn't be canned (and should have been easy money).
Remember this is the film studio that in the Comic book movie boom somehow fuck up a Justice League film (let that sink in for a second) and Bat girl was the final film in a hopeless universe that was failing to make money, this was a sequel to a billion dollar and much respected movie, so it couldn't be canned (and should have been easy money).
Trilobit
Member
I'm ALWAYS serious when discussing the best feature of ANY superhero film....
I dunno, the difference between 2003 and 2020-whatever was the last theatrical Hulk aint that much, and I think Ang Lee had a better comic look
My favourite Hulk movie is still the one with Edward Norton, I think he nailed the role. But the Ang Lee one, while flawed, is great for all the things it did. Like having Nick Nolte in a creepy role. A very good looking(for the time) Hulk. And a great overall feel to the story that felt quite epic.
SkylineRKR
Member
The Ang Lee hulk wasn't bad per se, but it was too slow and ultimately you want to see Hulk going on a rampage.
Why solo Hulk movies never really work is the contradiction between Banner and Hulk. He doesn't want to be Hulk. I think Hulk is ultimately served best as a sidekick, such as he was in the Avengers and Thor movies.
Gp1
Member
I read this the other night and was going to post it.
The production was a train wreck from the start and DC booked the front seat to see the crash.
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SirTerry-T
Member
Lori Petty was shit as Tank Girl.
The only decent bits of that film were Stan Winston's make up FX, Naomi Watts' Sub Girl and Mike Smith's animated sequences. Even the soundtrack was shite.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Based on domestic markets (US/Canada), the per theatre sales is a fraction of Joker 1. Same days past. Who knows how international will hold up. If Joker 1 did $1B, Joker 2 after it's all said and done might crack $200-250M? And then fizzle out? Joker 2 is right now at $118M global.
Huge drop in Joker 2 sales per theatre.
One slight counter is that there's about 6% fewer theatres doing Joker 2 vs the first film. So absolute dollars for domestic can understandably be a bit lower. But per theatre is dropping fast. At about $500/theatre on a weekday, you didnt get that for Joker 1 till 3 weeks later!
(The pink shaded rows are Fri-Sun)
Joker 1
-3-Full.jpg)
www.the-numbers.com
Joker 2
-1-Full.jpg)
www.the-numbers.com
Huge drop in Joker 2 sales per theatre.
One slight counter is that there's about 6% fewer theatres doing Joker 2 vs the first film. So absolute dollars for domestic can understandably be a bit lower. But per theatre is dropping fast. At about $500/theatre on a weekday, you didnt get that for Joker 1 till 3 weeks later!
(The pink shaded rows are Fri-Sun)
Joker 1
Joker (2019) - Financial Information
Financial analysis of Joker (2019) including budget, domestic and international box office gross, DVD and Blu-ray sales reports, total earnings and profitability.
www.the-numbers.com
Joker 2
Joker: Folie à Deux (2024) - Financial Information
Financial analysis of Joker: Folie à Deux (2024) including budget, domestic and international box office gross, DVD and Blu-ray sales reports, total earnings and profitability.
www.the-numbers.com
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Doom85
Member
Quality may have had nothing to do with those films’ deletions. I don’t know about Scooby, but while Batgirl was reported by WB to be of bad quality, the thing is when it came out that they were looking to delete the Acme movie next (a film focused on Wild E. Coyote and Roadrunner of Looney Tunes), it also came out that said Acme film had already been shown to test audiences and had gotten a positive reception. THAT certainly raised some eyebrows, and now some people started questioning if the Batgirl film was really THAT bad or just an ideal choice of a smaller film to pull some tax profit shenanigans with.
Regardless, deleting a film from existence, no matter the supposed quality (which is subjective anyway), will always leave a sour taste in my mouth. Films of any kind by definition are art to some degree at the end of the day, and also the product of people’s hard work that at least some of them will wish others, including their family and friends, to see the fruits of their labor. So deleting ANY film is a disgusting practice from my viewpoint regardless of the justification. My most hated film personally is Silent Hill Revelation for absolutely butchering “adapting” Silent Hill 3, yet if someone offered me the choice to delete its availability digitally everywhere and every single physical copy, I would still instantly be like:
Doom85
Member
The acting is a big suss, though I'd say the average wrestler pretends to be The Hulk basically every night so they should be able to do it.
And if they can make Tom Cruise and RDJ look tall and somehow make 5'9" Hardy seem larger than 6' Bale then its really perspective camera work.
PLENTY of big wrestlers and muscle bound actors that could do a practical hulk, hell even with a muscle suit and a bit of CG to hide any seams/add some veins /striations.
I just think a Hulk film with CG Hulks in the entire film is not what I wanna see.
Even though I don’t agree, I see where you’re coming from, however with Bane it made sense to keep it to just Hardy’s size despite the much larger size of the character in the comics because usually Bane’s depicted as only becoming that massive size once he uses Venom (not the Marvel one, LOL, rather a liquid drug which enhance Bane’s strength) which the Bane in Rises never uses which makes sense: he knew Bruce was still not in his prime and thus he would not need Venom to defeat him, and once he had thrown a broken Bruce into the prison he likely never bothered bringing Venom with him back to Gotham because he assumed Bruce would never escape (hence him saying, “impossible”, when he later sees the fiery Bat symbol indicating Batman’s return).