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Japan charts: Media Create 21-27 Feb
- Thread starter Jonnyram
- Start date
Sgt. Killjoy
Member
Odnetnin said:aah amirox, the sometimes nintendo troll who reckons Pikmin 2 is his GOTY 2004. I don't know what to make of him.uzzled.
Sony finally sent the checks?
:lol :lol :lol :lol
Jonnyram said:
I think I'm considering the other aspects a lot harder than you, as well as its worldwide appeal. Pokemon Center stores in the US are not exactly widespread. There are some still, but it's not a vastly growing enterprise. The Pokemon movies have been trashed in the box office time after time. In JAPAN, it's certainly a more valuable enterprise. What I am simply saying is that no matter how big you build up a franchise, it will come crashing down when something else is perceived as better/bigger. As we all know, even Disney movies constantly bomb now.
Odnetnin said:aah amirox, the sometimes nintendo troll who reckons Pikmin 2 is his GOTY 2004. I don't know what to make of him.
I'm sorry, I'm the shitty game troll. Get it right, GreenGiant.
Sgt. Killjoy said:
That would be funny if you weren't still swallowing those crusty Nintendo dickets they sent you the other night. We discussed your attributes before, let's not let it pour over into these forums.
NLB2: Yup. It's the perfect direction for Pokemon.
Amir0x said:
You can't get much more arrogant than that, my friend.
Well, thanks for letting us know of your hopes and dreams.
Of course Pokemon isn't going to seal the PSP's grave; that's simply not possible given Sony's perseverance. But Pokemon will jumpstart the platform, and will encourage developers to bring more titles to DS. It worked for GB, it worked for GBC, and it worked for the GBA.
Remember how Final Fantasy VII sealed the deal for the PlayStation? Pokemon shall do the same for the already-ahead DS. FFVII didn't kill the N64, but it sure did wonders for the PSone. It's going to happen again.
CVXFREAK said:
Nothing against Pokemon, but the sooner it fades away the better. It's become too much of a crutch for Nintendo as they can go "we can do whatever the fuck we want because in the end we'll just release a pokemon and it will make up for our losses" which is a bad bad mentality to have.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fad
Fad:
A fashion that is taken up with great enthusiasm for a brief period of time; a craze.
Fad:
A fashion that is taken up with great enthusiasm for a brief period of time; a craze.
CVXFREAK said:
I state it exactly as I feel it is.
CVXFREAK said:
Certainly it'll sell a lot. But this is not exactly the same situation between PSX and N64. In fact, there's quite a lot of differences. But if that's as far as you can dig to come up with a conclusion that it's the final axe throw, then it's going to be even funnier.
Jonnyram said:
Ok, first, I want to see where you found out that there's a timelimit to how long a fad lasts. The definition includes the words "a brief period of time." For me, a brief period of time can be a decade. Would you say bellbottoms were a fad, a trend? They came back now, didn't they? But when they fade away again after being popular for six years or eight years, were they forever?
Popular games are ALWAYS a fad/trend. And eventually it'll get overtaken by something else.
Sgt. Killjoy
Member
Amir0x said:
And yet, when others state otherwise, its "no you are wrong!"
Sgt. Killjoy
Member
Amir0x said:
Have your opinions, but don't be an asshole about them. I may be a Nintendo fanboy, but I'm not a complete douche about it.
Amir0x said:
That's fine, but it's still arrogant. But to return the favor, I think you have shitty taste just the same. I stated it exactly as I felt it. Nothing personal.
I do find it disturbing that you're essentially taking a piss on people who have had reasonable likings for the games, including myself. It's a bit of an unhealthy attitude.
I guess you'll have to learn the hard way. I fear for you the day the Media Create threads come out.
Pokemon's popularity is certainly not brief considering how long games have been popular; 25 years. That's 10 years and 40% of the lifespan of mainstream gaming. The Pokemon cartoon is in its eighth season and shows relatively few signs of stopping. It's already outdone the Simpsons in terms of amount of episodes, for example.
Sgt. Killjoy said:
I'm not going to shy away what I perceive as the truth. The asshole is always the person stating what you don't like. Now, naturally, I'm a bit more aggressive about it, but that's not the point. And I think it very arguable about how much of a douche you are, but that's a debate for another (PM) ;P
Sgt. Killjoy
Member
I'm a douche for being a Nintendo fanboy, and you're a douche for badgering others opinions as being wrong.
Deal?
Deal?
CVXFREAK said:That's fine, but it's still arrogant. But to return the favor, I think you have shitty taste just the same. I stated it exactly as I felt it. Nothing personal.
I do find it disturbing that you're essentially taking a piss on people who have had reasonable likings for the games, including myself. It's a bit of an unhealthy attitude.
I'm sorry, you're not going to find me feeling sorry about hating on the Pokemon franchise and its fans. I respect you, but since I do not perceive the enjoyment of Pokemon to be "reasonable" I cannot possibly side with you here. I can accept if you were content with the concept the first two or three times. But after that, any reasonable person would have jumped ship after they saw just where Nintendo was leading the franchise.
But, that's just my opinion. Pokemon is everything that is wrong with the industry in a nutshell.
CVXFreak said:
Why? I'll say what I have always said. Millions of people buying the same trash, boy I can't wait til the series dies!
CVXFreak said:
I think you should take a look at ratings relative to societies. Pokemon has had continual ratings declines season after season. The movies have almost all bombed. There's no doubt it's a long-lastin' franchise. Nobody is denying that. And there's no doubt it'll last for years to come. But it will come to an end one day, and I'm saying the only way that is going to happen is if Nintendo stops being able to dictate the trends in the handheld sector.
As I stated several times, it's the reason Pokemon does not sell well on GC. You'd think its popularity would transcend boundaries, but it doesn't. Besides the obvious reasons, Nintendo just does not dictate trends in the console industry. Not anymore. And because of that, their primary handheld franchise does not carry over well. It always stems from the games not being traditional Pokemon RPGs, but that's besides the point as many do tie in with their GBA cousins.
Johnnyram said:
Yes. That's exactly what I am implying.
"Popular games are a fad. Especially shitty popular games. There's always a more popular, superior, "cooler" title that will replace it."
Sgt. Killjoy
Member
I wish someone had archived the "Opinions can be wrong" thread at TTB.
Amir0x said:
Yeah, it's cool. But it's not Pokemon's fault no one has come out with anything more compelling than Pokemon in the handheld field. And in my view, the PSP isn't going to change that, either.
But you can't classify it as a fad, that's what me and jonnyram are trying to say. You can classify it something else, but fad is simply the wrong word until gaming is 200 years old or something. But no matter how you try to say it, it's just not brief. 40% of the gaming era is not brief; hell, 15% isn't very brief either. If Pokemon died in 1999 or something then you'd be right, but it's been alive for about 10 years (or 9 years).
Relative to their development costs, Pokemon does alright on GC, but not magnificently. It's not unlike FF or DQ on the GBA, which haven't been too terribly popular compared to their console counterparts. And Pokemon on console outsells FF and DQ on handheld, so Pokemon isn't the only guilty party for super popular on one and moderately popular on another. Hell, the PSP kinda proves that. Sony doesn't dictate the handheld industry just like Nintendo doesn't the console industry, but Pokemon will give Sony one hell of a hard time.
CVXFREAK said:
Hey, I didn't say it was Pokemon's fault. The only thing that is Pokemon's fault is the relative lack of quality within its own franchise. But, again, we're obviously not going to agree here.
CVXFreak said:
For the sake of this argument, are you saying Pokemon will be around for as long as gaming is around? Because then I'm certainly willing to make a bet. What I am saying, once more, is that the moment Nintendo fails to be able to set trends in the handheld industry Pokemon will be the first thing that falls. That's all. Whether that will happen with DS, or GBA2, or GBA18, I don't know.
CVXFreak said:
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance did very well on GBA. Final Fantasy I+II doesn't really count as they were just enhanced ports, but I didn't hear they were doing poorly. That aside, there's also the cultural differences to cover. You mention Dragon Quest. Great example: In US, nobody really gives a shit about Dragon Quest. In Japan? It's a freakin' religion.
Amir0x said:
Of course not; nothing is eternal. But my point is, it's going to be a VERY VERY long time before Pokemon is in fad status. If Pokemon stopped being popular today, then it'd be until 2080 where it were only popular for 10% of the span. Keep on going from there.
No denying that, but it's still pretty drab for an FF game, if you're going to dock Pokemon on the console front. Point is, only Mario seems to be consistent between consoles and handhelds.
DCharlie said:
Clearly you missed the whole point. I think EVERY popular game is a fad. It's a fad that will inevitably be replaced by the NEXT most popular game down the line. When that happens for Pokemon is the only thing being discussed at the moment. No one is making predictions that the next Pokemon game will sell badly, either.
Likening pokemon to a fad when the first games came out on gameboy 10 years ago may have been correct but with it still popular now , saying it'll die "overnight" is being just a little bit brash. I admit that pokemon have changed very little in these 10 years but then I find no difference between sports games released every single damn year either, does that mean that millions of people are retarded for buying madden every year ? possibly but making fun of EA aside no it doesn't it simply means that millions love the game and I happen to think its crap which is exactly what you are doing to Pokemon.
IN conclusion and back on topic I think the Ds will sit at these same sales for awhiel to come aand the next pokemon game and final fantasy 3 will likely cuase a burst in sales , the PSP likewise prolly won't move any more or any less units for awhile.
IN conclusion and back on topic I think the Ds will sit at these same sales for awhiel to come aand the next pokemon game and final fantasy 3 will likely cuase a burst in sales , the PSP likewise prolly won't move any more or any less units for awhile.
DCharlie said:
Yeah. You see, it's true. There will always be another bigger and better game set to replace something's popularity. Always. This has been true since gaming began, and it just takes certain games longer than others. Now, I can certainly see people getting annoyed at the word "fad" in the traditional sense. But I cannot think of a better word for a segment of time when something is popular, and then eventually dies out. Even if that segment is 10 years, or 12 years or whatever.
No one said Pokemon would die overnight or even soon.
Jonnyram said:
Well, I think it's relative to the timeframe of something. And since I think that gaming will last for a long time, if Pokemon were to have a ten or fifteen year life it might not be that long in the grand scheme of thing (if gaming lasted to 2080 or 2190 or whatever, as it inevitably will).
That said, the core point still stands. People are getting stuck on the word and not the point.
DCharlie said:
back on topic :lol why would you be disapppointed, is it because its not going to rape rape DS?
Anyone know when Nitendogs is going to hit (soon I gather from Olimario's thread) but what about JSS. This game will be a MONSTER HIT.
Damn.. I should reference Jarrod's list
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
like it or not, Pokemon is genius.
It reaches an entire section of children each year , sucking in new players and becoming a playground phenomenon. Unless of course you are going to suggest that the people who originally bought Pokemon 10 years ago are the only ones that bought Pokemon this time around, which i'd find very difficult to believe.
Is there stuff they can do to improve the franchise (a much better word than 'fad' - franchises die, or are overtaken, they are longer term) and perhaps the DS version will see some of these come into fruition...
well, disappointed is probably the wrong word. I expected sales to be much higher given the fact it now seems easier to get stock (at least in Tokyo).
for list :
www.game-science.com/hatsubai
Amir0x said:
Well, that's if Pokemon stopped being popular today. If we gave it 5 more years, it'll be 15%, still a very considerable time period. 10 more years, 20% and so on. If it stopped today, it'll be 2181 before it's, percentage-wise, a fad. But that's just fiddling with numbers. It won't change the impact Pokemon's had in its "short" lifespan. And so on .
You can't give the word a new definition.
The point was that you called it a fad. I don't see any other ideas coming from your posts.Amir0x said:
No. fads are not relative to the timeframe of anything. Why should Pokemon be considered a subset of gaming? Is the tamagotchi considered a subset of keyrings? Is the BMX considered a subset of transport? Fads don't have boundaries like this. You're just making stuff up. And gaming will last forever.
Odnetnin: That's the WHOLE point of what I was saying! Popular games die, which is why I was suggesting that it's not at all impossible for something to dethrone Pokemon given the right circumstances.
I'm a consumer. As a consumer, I judge the quality based on my needs. I don't care how good of a marketing idea it all was, frankly. I only care about how crappy the games are. And, shit, if they actually fixed/changed/improved the everything about Pokemon with the DS version, I'll be the first on board. But like I said, it's a genuinely stale and tired concept that has not changed almost at all in the handheld sector (not counting Pinball) since it was introduced. That's why I feel MMORPG is the best direction, because it takes the core concept of Pokemon and integrates it into something that actually fits it really well.
DCharlie said:
I'm a consumer. As a consumer, I judge the quality based on my needs. I don't care how good of a marketing idea it all was, frankly. I only care about how crappy the games are. And, shit, if they actually fixed/changed/improved the everything about Pokemon with the DS version, I'll be the first on board. But like I said, it's a genuinely stale and tired concept that has not changed almost at all in the handheld sector (not counting Pinball) since it was introduced. That's why I feel MMORPG is the best direction, because it takes the core concept of Pokemon and integrates it into something that actually fits it really well.
Jonnyram said:
Of course, because it's obvious you have a hard time with reading comprehension. My core point was that Pokemon is a shitty, tired ol' franchise. My core point was that I hope if PSP does anything, it's kick Pokemon off its throne so that the garbage can't be important in the market anymore. That's my points. The calling it a "fad" or "prolonged popularity" is completely irrelevant to the discussion, and has only become important due to peoples pet peeves on the issue.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
i'm gonna call it.
I'd expect an MMORPG Pokemon to be only mildly successful.
What makes Pokemon popular with kids is the face to face battles, trading, having something that your friends don't have etc...
it's part game, part snobbery, part collector, part card collector - and for kids all fun.
This may even be part of the reason that nothing really changes to drastically. What little is added is appreciated by kids, they don't have anything new and complicated to learn and it works perfectly. Likewise, casual gamers can pick up the new version of pokemon and it's the core fundamentals are the same. It's instant gratification, it's fun, it's a freaking phenomenon.
At the end of the day, this just sounds like you have an axe to grind with Pokemon. You've repeatedly expressed that you don't like it... that's great. You probably aren't in Nintendo's target area.
yes, lets upset millions of kids so that we can get rid of this 'rubbish'! The last thing we need is millions of kids getting into games at a young age and then funding the industry later on when they get older. Never fear though... the could play something much better with collection and fighting on the PSP like Armoured Core! SONY SAVES!.... but Nintendo score on the rebound...