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[IndieJones]

*Gaffer's parent/sibling/aunt/uncle killed by a moose while out deer hunting*

Gaffer: "Scum. They knew the risks."

 

[Speevy]

*Gaffer's parent/sibling/aunt/uncle killed by a moose while out deer hunting*

Gaffer: "Scum. They knew the risks."

A surprise moose is always the most tragic.

 

[SirMossyBloke]

*Gaffer's parent/sibling/aunt/uncle killed by a moose while out deer hunting*

Gaffer: "Scum. They knew the risks."

You're comparing hunting moose to elephants? Really?

 

[gutter_trash]

*Gaffer's parent/sibling/aunt/uncle killed by a moose while out deer hunting*

Gaffer: "Scum. They knew the risks."

deer is not an endangered species, the African elephant is

 

[rjinaz]

*Gaffer's parent/sibling/aunt/uncle killed by a moose while out deer hunting*

Gaffer: "Scum. They knew the risks."

Well I don't have family that hunts, and I wouldn't call somebody scum that hunts moose even if I think it's horrible. But yes, when you are going after prey and using guns, there is that risk.

 

[Unbounded]

You don't become captain planet just because you shoot animals. The man was a trophy hunter who toured with big money tourists to kill leopards etc. He was a parasite at best.

Well I mean, if he died mountain climbing, you'd say something like "It's tragic, and I pray for his family. He probably knew the risk."

So at the very least, he died doing something risky.

But in addition to that, he shot an animal that has at the very least the right to kill him back. Leave out the endangered part.

So yeah, while I'm not all "FUCK YEAH CRUSH THE BASTARD.", it's far less sad than a child getting hit by a drunk driver or something.

it's nice that the money he spent for absolutely selfish reasons is used to good effect. Doesn't mean anyone has to feel sorry for him. Most people don't

Except this person was a source of money that went towards conservation efforts.

Him being dead means that no more money is coming from him, which is the exact opposite of what we want if we give a shit about these animals, yknow, existing.

 

[Speevy]

I'm dead serious guys.

If a police officer arrived at your door and said, "Your brother is dead. He shot an elephant and it fell on him."

you would be as sad as any grieving sibling.

But I doubt you'd hate the elephant, or blame anyone. Hell, you may even eventually come to blame your brother.

 

[III-V]

Best way to protect these animals is to shoot the shit out of em.

 

[Speevy]

Him being dead means that no more money is coming from him, which is the exact opposite of what we want if we give a shit about these animals, yknow, existing.

Perhaps his will stipulates that all of his money will go towards conservation.

 

[gutter_trash]

I'm dead serious guys.

If a police officer arrived at your door and said, "Your brother is dead. He shot an elephant and it fell on him."

you would be as sad as any grieving sibling.

But I doubt you'd hate the elephant, or blame anyone. Hell, you may even eventually come to blame your brother.

LOL, do you seriously expect that THE largest land animal on Earth will just get on its knees and allow you to shoot it without a fight when confronted?

 

[Mister Wolf]

*Gaffer's parent/sibling/aunt/uncle killed by a moose while out deer hunting*

Gaffer: "Scum. They knew the risks."

Wont say they're scum but they knew the risks. Unless you think killing other living lifeforms out in the wildernes is some kind of game.

 

[danm999]

I can't really give props to hunter's contributing to conservation efforts with a straight face. They're doing it so they can continue hunting. Which is largely why the damn things are endangered in the first place.

Maybe that's not a very pragmatic attitude at this point true, but I would argue neither is hunting elephants in the first place.

 

[Aske]

*Gaffer's parent/sibling/aunt/uncle killed by a moose while out deer hunting*

Gaffer: "Scum. They knew the risks."

You know almost all people rank animal species qualitatively, right? It's why laws restricting our freedom to be cruel to animals don't protect frogs and ticks.

A moose is not an elephant, and I have far more time for people who hunt moose - even for trophies - than I do people who hunt elephants.

 

[Speevy]

LOL, do you seriously expect that THE largest land animal on Earth will just get on its knees and allow you to shoot it without a fight when confronted?

Maybe if you pay extra they come sedated.

 

[D4Danger]

*Gaffer's parent/sibling/aunt/uncle killed by a moose while out deer hunting*

Gaffer: "Scum. They knew the risks."

the scum part and general lack of empathy towards the hunters come from it being an endangered species. He's knowingly wiping that animal off the planet for rich assholes who don't want to actually hunt they just want an easy kill and a trophy. There's nothing noble about what they do.

hunting and agriculture are not the same as prize killing.

 

[crazy monkey]

RIP ELEPHANT.

 

[III-V]

I just can't reconcile wanting to kill one of these beautiful peaceful intelligent land walkers. I mean why? It's an elephant. It's an amazing creature like nothing else on earth. And people like to hunt this thing shoot it down? Really do not have much sympathy for the gunner who died.

 

[SenorArdilla]

Best way to protect these animals is to shoot the shit out of em.

Well yeah.

 

[Speevy]

the scum part comes from it being an endangered species. He's knowingly wiping that animal off the planet for rich assholes who don't want to actually hunt they just want an easy kill and a trophy. There's nothing noble about what they do.

What if there's a secret society of even richer men who lure unwitting trophy hunters into their death with genetically engineered super elephants. Then they're super noble.

 

[Unbounded]

I can't really give props to hunter's contributing to conservation efforts with a straight face. They're doing it so they can continue hunting. Which is largely why the damn things are endangered in the first place.

Maybe that's not a very pragmatic attitude at this point true, but I would argue neither is hunting elephants in the first place.

Yes, the only way to get people to put money towards a good cause is to play into their selfishness and give them something they want in return.

If we tried to appeal to the "good nature of people" those animals would have gone extinct ages ago.


Edit: really, just watch the Adam Ruins video. It presents the argument pretty cleanly.

 

[danm999]

Yes, the only way to get people to put money towards a good cause is to play into their selfishness and give them something they want in return.

If we tried to appeal to the "good nature of people" those animals would have gone extinct ages ago.


Edit: really, just watch the Adam Ruins video. It presents the argument pretty cleanly.

I understand that from a practical point of view it's just not going to make me think any better of hunters of endangered animals.

Just because your selfishness ends up mitigating a terrible situation you and people like you caused doesn't mean I'm going to be sad you died. I'm not.

Just like I wouldn't, you know, give a tobacco company props for paying for a cancer patients hospice care.

 

[Nesotenso]

I understand that from a practical point of view it's just not going to make me think any better of hunters of endangered animals.

Just because your selfishness ends up mitigating a terrible situation you and people like you caused doesn't mean I'm going to be sad you died. I'm not.

Just like I wouldn't, you know, give a tobacco company props for paying for a cancer patients hospice care.

it helps the local economy as well.

also locals who might turn to poaching to put food on the table, might try to protect them instead.

 

[phaonaut]

Are threads involving hunters usually like this?

This one seems especially intense.

 

[Rentahamster]

I can't really give props to hunter's contributing to conservation efforts with a straight face. They're doing it so they can continue hunting. Which is largely why the damn things are endangered in the first place.

Maybe that's not a very pragmatic attitude at this point true, but I would argue neither is hunting elephants in the first place.

1. They're endangered because of poaching (not sustainable hunting), and habitat destruction, so the world's appetite for cheap cow meat should also be just as grave a concern.

2. How is hunting not pragmatic, when it's proven that it, along with safari tourism, are two of the only things so far that can potentially be more lucrative than agriculture and give the local people a monetary incentive to give a damn about the wild animals?

 

[danm999]

it helps the local economy as well.

also locals who might turn to poaching to put food on the table, might try to protect them instead.

Doesn't really change how I feel.

Doing marginal good for a bad reason to mitigate a larger terrible situation you've created isn't really something I'll praise.

1. They're endangered because of poaching (not sustainable hunting), and habitat destruction, so the world's appetite for cheap cow meat should also be just as grave a concern.

2. How is hunting not pragmatic, when it's proven that it, along with safari tourism, are two of the only things so far that can potentially be more lucrative than agriculture and give the local people a monetary incentive to give a damn about the wild animals?

Because it was not pragmatic to hunt and poach them to the point of near extinction.

 

[Takuan]

Southbound pachyderm.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I'm dead serious guys.

If a police officer arrived at your door and said, "Your brother is dead. He shot an elephant and it fell on him."

you would be as sad as any grieving sibling.

But I doubt you'd hate the elephant, or blame anyone. Hell, you may even eventually come to blame your brother.

Nah. I'd be sad, but also say that's what they get for getting their jollies off killing endangered/rare/big animals purely for sport. People that get their kicks out of shooting elephants should have an elephant dropped on'em. Preferably a living one.

 

[vatstep]

What the hell is an elephant cow? Doesn't seem to be a recognized term per Google. Just a redundant way of saying elephant?

 

[III-V]

What the hell is an elephant cow? Doesn't seem to be a recognized term per Google. Just a redundant way of saying elephant?

Female

 

[Alter_Fridge]

I feel bad for the elephant, but also for this hunter's family. Perhaps even the hunter himself, if this is what he had to do to provide for his children.
.

So your logic is that is someone decides to father a rather obscene amount of children all of his own choice, it then justifies killing animals?

Wow that is all kinds of wrong

 

[phaonaut]

What the hell is an elephant cow? Doesn't seem to be a recognized term per Google. Just a redundant way of saying elephant?

Female elephant

 

[gutter_trash]

What the hell is an elephant cow? Doesn't seem to be a recognized term per Google. Just a redundant way of saying elephant?

female elephant;

 

[The Kree]

 

[Nerokis]

I think this is an entirely valid question. But gallows humour and a cavalier attitude to mortality help people process the finite nature of human existence. Striking a balance between enjoying a little shadenfreaud at a big game hunter being crushed by a big game animal, and being so incapable of empathy towards perceived undesirables that one supports something like the torture of criminals, is a balance we tend to figure out and enforce on a cultural level.

More empathy is always better, but empathy costs energy, and treating every human death with solemnity requires repressing psychological coping mechanisms to a degree I think very few would consider tolerable.

This was nicely said, but also not especially relevant. I'm not suggesting that you need to meditate on the enormity of every death that comes to your attention. Besides, even if you were in the habit of doing that, you could have a number of legitimate reactions to any given death. Partly for reasons you eloquently laid out.

But some frameworks are more conducive to empathy, and some are more conducive to other things. Emotions don't have set costs. The poster I responded to offered a framework for interpreting death, human value, and empathy that I found incredibly backwards. This relates less to the nature of human limitations, and more to questions about the state of our social fabric.

 

[akira28]

it helps the local economy as well.

also locals who might turn to poaching to put food on the table, might try to protect them instead.

there could be plenty of other industries other than killing the animals, but this is what people will pay the most to do. it's not the devil's bargain you make it out to be. someone brought the devil to the table.

I am not anti-hunter though. But even loop holed conservation hunting that pays for the overall protection (protection so they can kill them but that's neither here nor here.) of the endangered animals is kind of gray area. I'm sure the elephant would rather be alive. And again, none of this had to happen.

 

[highrider]

Hunter for substinance is entirely different than hunting to go hey guys, look what I killed. Substinance hunters shouldn't be conflated with big game/trophy hunters.

 

[Astral Dog]

Shame he wasn't jailed by the most dangerous of them all,the human

 

[Baron Aloha]

RIP elephant.

 

[danm999]

It's not the devil's bargain you make it out to be. someone brought the devil to the table.

This is really well put.

 

[Opto]

I think i've seen this Far Side comic before

 

[crazepharmacist]

Mann, what music video is that gif from? I remember it being a good song.

 

[Jotaka]

Mann, what music video is that gif from? I remember it being a good song.

Alanis Morissette - Ironic
BTW... not a single ironic thing is listed in that music. It's not ironic?

 

[Wag]

these are farmed elephants, lions, leopards, whatever. its big business in south africa.

Wait. How can you "farm" endangered species for hunting?

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Wait. How can you "farm" endangered species for hunting?

They let them breed and provide them with the environment they need to thrive and then sell the right to kill specific ones.

 

[Rentahamster]

Because it was not pragmatic to hunt and poach them to the point of near extinction.

Poaching to the point of near extinction is not pragmatic, but that is different from sustainable hunting. Similarly to the war on drugs, banning a terrible activity does not necessarily mean that activity stops.

Wait. How can you "farm" endangered species for hunting?

Same way you farm any other animal.

 

[Kremzeek]

Let's hope his children now learn to not hunt endangered animals.

 

[danm999]

Poaching to the point of near extinction is not pragmatic, but that is different from sustainable hunting. Similarly to the war on drugs, banning a terrible activity does not necessarily mean that activity stops.

I don't make much of a distinction between hunting elephants for fun or for ivory. They're both terrible motivations and I don't have to feel sorry for the person if they meet misfortune.

 

[Rentahamster]

I don't make much of a distinction between hunting elephants for fun or for ivory. They're both terrible motivations and I don't have to feel sorry for the person if they meet misfortune.

OK, but until a better solution appears, you're going to have to accept the fact that a few individuals need to be sacrificed occasionally to give the entire species a better chance at survival.

 

[KonradLaw]

Must this "conservation" be done via hunting instead of less brutal methods?

Yes. It must. There's no other feasible way.

 

[Doomshroom]

RIP elephant