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[atyourservice]

In recent years across the internet, there has been 'antiwoke' pushback on character ethnicity/sex choices more developers seem to be making. This pushback seems to be ramping up. There have been extremes on each 'side', as with all discussion online

Where do you personally draw the line between 'antiwoke' pushback and 'racist' pushback?

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Idc about either 'side', they're all the same to me.

Just don't take any of em seriously.

 

[Fahdis]

In recent years across the internet, there has been 'antiwoke' pushback on character ethnicity/sex choices more developers seem to be making. This pushback seems to be ramping up. There have been extremes on each 'side', as with all discussion online

Where do you personally draw the line between 'antiwoke' pushback and 'racist' pushback?

Anything resembling this is a good start.

 

[Wildebeest]

I don't know, but nobody predicted that the next world revolution would happen due to 50-year-old men being denied 3d anime waifus with bouncy boobs.

 

[tommib]

What is going on

 

[ikbalCO]

The context. I think the context of the said woke agenda really matters. Also how studio executes what ever they were planing on sayin is crutial.

Two great example of this;
Tlou part 2 has a lesbian lead, a trans character and his whole story arc and a very manly straight woman. I am not bothered with them at all since it was executed so well.

DA Vailgard has a nonbinary character and their whole story arc, desparetly non offensive writing and everything about this game is annoying as fuck because all were depicted terribly (though i played to completion)

 

[Xtib81]

When inclusion is forced and stereotypical.

 

[Bojji]

When it's clearly forcefully pushed into the game - I'm against (most new games are like this).

When it clearly makes sense (like Arabic people in AC Mirage, white people in KCD etc.) I couldn't care less.

Cyberpunk is full of LGBT characters and people of different races - it makes perfect sense in this game.

 

[Madserb2023]

It's really simple. If you reverse it, would the other side think it's racist etc. if I took a black character and made them white would they like it? If I made a gay character straight. If I made every black character purposely ugly. If I said I wanted to only hire straight white people and so on.

 

[Dynasty8]

I don't care about ethnicities/sex, but when I know who's making the game and their politics start bleeding into the game, then that's where I draw the line.

You have many of these developers nowadays who are so anti white, entitled, think everything has to have pronouns now and if anyone disagrees they're "bigots". All hypocrites in their own way virtue signalling to everyone assuming they're the "good guys". It's so pathetic. I don't care for any of that stuff in games, hell, diversity can be a positive at times....but not forced and absolutely not at the expense of authenticity and quality. These devs just want to keep pushing it. They're lost and they care more for spreading their messages than delivering what the majority of consumers want.

 

[Cakeboxer]

If it feels forced and doesn't fit the game or story.

 

[Fess]

Just don’t force anything and it’s fine. Don’t do checkbox designs. I get that inclusivity is important but you don’t have to have every color and gender variation imaginable within every small group of people. And you don’t always have to turn all strong women into lesbians and shave off all curves.
Just go outside and look at regular people, preferably not just in your home country if you plan to release the game for a global audience, and then apply what you learn into your game and it’ll be fine.

 

[PeteBull]

When it's clearly forcefully pushed into the game - I'm against (most new games are like this).

When it clearly makes sense (like Arabic people in AC Mirage, white people in KCD etc.) I couldn't care less.

Cyberpunk is full of LGBT characters and people of different races - it makes perfect sense in this game.

CP2077 setting is parody of future america, thats the reason there is so much weird stuff there and it all makes perfect sense, its simply believable.
If this clownworld infiltrates witcher series, which is basically middleages poland+ magic(even stories/legends are all polish/slavik there) then it becomes super inconsistent like in the netflix series (where they try to make it like its happening in current day america, for obvious reason-to pander to wokeists

Another clear example is black protag in AC:S, massacrating japanese ppl and destroying their lifehood to the beats of rap music, no need to explain anything here, but for contrast/comparision imagine Luke Cage being ginger and doing his superhero shit to the country music in the middle of Harlem instead of how it happened properly

 

[Filben]

The context. I think the context of the said woke agenda really matters. Also how studio executes what ever they were planing on sayin is crutial.

Two great example of this;
Tlou part 2 has a lesbian lead, a trans character and his whole story arc and a very manly straight woman. I am not bothered with them at all since it was executed so well.

DA Vailgard has a nonbinary character and their whole story arc, desparetly non offensive writing and everything about this game is annoying as fuck because all were depicted terribly (though i played to completion)

This. So much.

One game just shows you said characters because they exist (and video games always have you playing misfits, chosen ones, the special people, the heroes, the anti-heroes, in short NOT the everyday person) and let them do stuff and the interpretation is up to you.

The other game outright tells you how to deal with trans people, how to apologise, how to not apologise and never ever pisses anyone off because the player's feelings might be hurt in the process.

 

[IAmRei]

Its not because race or certain way of thinking. It is about how the devs execute them.

My best game ever is metroid, samus is a female (female alien bio mechanical cyber enhanced to be precise) alien ripley is one of my favorite mc, terra and celes are both my fave in ff as well. Bayonetta is badass. CJ in GTASA also my fave. Blade movie is badass. Barret are my fave in ff7. Its all about execution. Prototype 2 MC is also badass as well.

I think lot of people is tired because new western games these days are about forced and shoved.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Some people in here throw hissy fits as soon as they see a black main character or, heaven forbid, a woman. That’s non-constructive pushback. If OG Lara Croft was introduced today (albeit with less exaggerated breasts), some people would dismiss the whole game as “woke” at a glance. Same if Alien/s was made today.
That said, it’s pretty clear that some games are unquestionably made with “woke” content as the primary preoccupation of the developers. It’s in the designs. It’s in the choice of words. It’s in the dialogue. And it is, more and more often, in the words of devs that just can’t keep their mouth shut on social media, desperate to score a gotcha against their supposed oppressors. It is not subtle, and the quality of games made with this content has been proven to be subpar in more than one occasion. When that happens, a certain degree of pushback may be justified.

I am glad that we can admit a line can be drawn between anti-woke and outright racist/sexist.
The first is based on observation of facts; the second is based on prejudice.
It’s unfortunate that some devs conflate the two. Listening to the pre-release pushback against some games may have pushed them away from the cliff they willingly threw themselves off. And that prejudiced, antagonistic attitude is the telltale sign of a woke game, made to convey a message first and foremost, and maybe to provide entertainment as a secondary concern.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

I don't like gender/ethnicity swap of existing characters, I'm also not a fan of the pronoun bs, the defeminization of women . Other than that, I'm ok with any type of character provided that they are well written and interesting.

 

[Heisenberg007]

It shouldn't feel forced.

If the dev team is working on an agenda and is bleeding their own beliefs about "inclusion" and "non-binarism" into their games, then that's a problem. The Game Director (I think?) of Dragon Age Veilguard is a "transgender." And we can see lengthy conversations about that in the game. It is clear that they added their own agenda and personal feelings into the game, at the expense of the game quality.

That is something that should not be accepted.

 

[cormack12]

Woke is a catch all term, not just about skin colour. So equating woke to racism is wrong.

Generally if studios need to talk about their diverse audience, and diverse cast of characters before their game releases then - generally - it's performative and woke. If they just release their games and the diversity is organic to the story then it's just a game.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Basically, in order for me to categorize a game as 'woke', it must do the following:

A) Race/Gender swap established characters of the IP for no in-lore reason
B) Ability to 'Select Your Pronouns'
C) LGBTQ character over-representation (out of the 10 characters, at least 5 are gay/bi/trans)

At this point the game is woke, but by no means does that make it a bad game and it can be fully enjoyed by me nonetheless.

In order for me to categorize the woke game as 'unbearably woke' to the point I can't play it, it must ALSO do (some of) the following:

D) Purposefully uglify and de-sexualize the female characters of the game, even though they are based on beautiful models/actresses
E) Female characters are smarter, stronger, tougher, and more ambitious than the male ones
F) Male characters are either weak-willed beta males with zero ambitions, confidence or leadership skills, or they are toxic misogynistic racist assholes whose sole reason for being is to enforce the notion of 'toxic masculinity' and almost never are worthy of the social/economic power they possess.
G) Female and/or black villains are misunderstood victims who would've never be villains in the first place if they had a hug.
H) Developers often promote LGBTQ/queer values in the story or in interviews/press conferences/social media
I) Developers are openly hostile and condescending to people who question their creative decisions
J) Writing and dialogue resembles modern-day language/references/memes even though the game may take place in a mythological/medieval/sci-fi setting where that lingo either shouldn't be applicable or should've been obsolete.
K) Weak plot that refuses to be bold and offensive and provoke diversity of thought - as a result, most characters see eye to eye in values which are applauded in a modern leftist-orientated community, and the villains almost always have ideas/perceptions which are commonly found in communities of the central/(far-)right political spectrum.

 

[IAmRei]

But, as with what i thought years ago, they won't make everything natural, it's already forced years ago. And that's why i only play japanese games, since years ago.

I once heard terms kusoge applied in western games long before ps3/xbox HD era. And it's repeat again in these years, a decade worthless of forced kusoge. (Some of them is not, but very rare for me)

You know, even japanese game have lgbt in their game, but again, they are not focus and mostly minor and acceptable.

Again, if the west not forcing their agenda, this won't be a problem for lotta people.

 

[DJ12]

Some of the shite these people are pulling doesn't make sense in the gaming space or real life.

For example what purpose does employing a fairly attractive model to base your character on and then making her butt ugly in the game.

Is it so ugly side shaved purple haired trans people can feel better?

Many men that are trans are actually pretty good looking as women, why aren't they being represented. Just the ugly ones deserve to be represented?

And do trans people even need to be in games? Do trans people want to be trans or do they just want to be a gender that isn't the one they were born into.

So being able to play as a man or woman if you aren't that sex pretty much nails the brief of what they desire.

The whole thing is as ridiculous as the "man" that got pregnant when a sperm fertilised one of "his" eggs in "his" full set of female reproductive organs.

I get inclusion and diversity and dont have any problems with it, just not this shit that is running rife through the entertainment industry.

 

[Fahdis]

When inclusion is forced and stereotypical.

I wanna ask GAF which side offends us more about this image? Personally, I'm an equal opportunity hater.

 

[Nickolaidas]

I wanna ask GAF which side offends us more about this image? Personally, I'm an equal opportunity hater.

#GayBlackHitlerDidNothingWrong

 

[acm2000]

People like to take non serious things way too seriously.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

They are shitty woke games if

1. They’re ugly so you know they’re made by the woke lunatics. Not the cool kind of ugly either.

2. If the character looks weird and off like those abominations in the Saints Row Reboot, dustborn, Veilguard, concord etc.

3. Making the majority of them the same race even though it doesn’t make sense to have that much of them in that setting.

4. Changing certain existing character to fit the woke lunatics

5. Shoving Lgbtqbbasdq in your face in the game rather then being optional.

Racist fucks if

1. They decide to hate on a character just because of their race even if they are done well like CJ, Spawn, Jackie Chan, Barret etc etc while not even trying them out when they’re usually into those type of games/movies than they’re racist scumbags.

2. If they still decide to hate on a lesbian or gay character even if they were okay with their characters other traits like Veronica and Arcade from new Vegas than they’re bigots.

3. Sexist assholes if they decide to hate hot female characters like Eve, Tifa, cause they hate feminine females. Or hate on masculine man/chads.

 

[FMX]

Honestly who cares? At the end of the day the game has to be good.

 

[Karamina]

As a non-western guy, for me the "good diversity" is more about cultural differences than skin color, sexual orientation or gender.

 

[Garibaldi]

Don't care in the slightest. Black, white, boy, girl, fat, thin, ugly, pretty. Couldn't care less as long as it's interesting plot wise. I don't see why we need to know someone's sexual preference though unless it's actually relevant to the plot.

Pure gameplay wise, they could be a robot and I wouldn't care.

 

[Saber]

When the game makes you think more about other aspects than the character itself. Specially when western games make female characters ugly on purpose.

 

[Kenneth Haight]

Edit: removed grandpa simpson walking in/walking out gif

 

[ungalo]

I don't have to draw a line, my esthetic/artistic sensibility does the job for me.

 

[YCoCg]

Two great example of this;
Tlou part 2 has a lesbian lead, a trans character and his whole story arc and a very manly straight woman. I am not bothered with them at all since it was executed so well.

But people have shouted that TLOU2 is woke trash, so what's happens in that case when your good example is also lumped in?

 

[SpokkX]

Too much

Concord
Dragon Age Veilguard
Overwatch latest stuff

Whatever feels force fed really

 

[Newari]

When dev goes on anti gamer rant on twitter

 

[nikolino840]

When it's clearly forcefully pushed into the game - I'm against (most new games are like this).

When it clearly makes sense (like Arabic people in AC Mirage, white people in KCD etc.) I couldn't care less.

Cyberpunk is full of LGBT characters and people of different races - it makes perfect sense in this game.

You know that kcd or ac mirage having only one ethnicity is like "doubt"

I bet if a dev make a game set in china in 742 AD there's some people saying woke agenda if they put arab muslims in china even if there this mosquee

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Mosque_of_Xi'an

Do you know how much travel there was in ancient times?

Silk Road - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Bojji]

You know that kcd or ac mirage having only one ethnicity is like "doubt"

I bet if a dev make a game set in china in 742 AD there's some people saying woke agenda if they put arab muslims in china even if there this mosquee

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Mosque_of_Xi'an

Do you know how much travel there was in ancient times?

Silk Road - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

There were probably like single %'s (or less) of people that looked differently in medieval Bohemia or Baghdad. At least people that looked different enough to recognize that they have different ethnicity. You can't tell the difference between average Pole and Hungarian, same is true for people from 2 different sub Saharan African countries

There was a lot of travel on the silk road but what was the number of merchants - few thousand? And they were not present in any country for a long time.

 

[Hohenheim]

I would probably not think about much of this if it wasn't for the 100 daily threads about it here.
It's mostly silly noise.

For example I had no idea that TLOU 2 and Alan Wake 2 was considered to be "woke" games when I played them.

 

[Sakura]

I haven't really seen any "anti-woke" pushback that goes too far (not even really sure what that is), so I haven't felt a need to draw a line.
The race stuff is even less of a big deal. When it comes up, it's mainly people complaining about it not making sense in the setting of the game or whatever which I don't see a problem with. Not sure what else there is there.

 

[nikolino840]

There were probably like single %'s (or less) of people that looked differently in medieval Bohemia or Baghdad. At least people that looked different enough to recognize that they have different ethnicity. You can't tell the difference between average Pole and Hungarian, same is true for people from 2 different sub Saharan African countries

There was a lot of travel on the silk road but what was the number of merchants - few thousand? And they were not present in any country for a long time.

I don't know...making a game about a chinese merchant in the roman empire? There's a reason that i can't do it?

 

[Bernardougf]

In recent years across the internet, there has been 'antiwoke' pushback on character ethnicity/sex choices more developers seem to be making. This pushback seems to be ramping up. There have been extremes on each 'side', as with all discussion online

Where do you personally draw the line between 'antiwoke' pushback and 'racist' pushback?

DEI malpractices and the ideology are killing western gaming ... no lines need to be drawn for me ... any game that has any elements I consider woke and/or devs being openly discriminatory/racists on social midia I'll not buy .... theres so much to play and do ... Im not their target audience not everything has to be made for me... so I just go play something else.

Now since I love gaming and would like to return to its former self before this woke/dei plague I hope all this games failing eventually leads to a real change. Until then ... Ill laugh at their failures and complete inability/denial to recognize the real motives in the constant circle jerk between woke media - woke devs - woke social media defenders.

 

[Bojji]

I would probably not think about much of this if it wasn't for the 100 daily threads about it here.
It's mostly silly noise.

For example I had no idea that TLOU 2 and Alan Wake 2 was considered to be "woke" games when I played them.

AW2 has some stuff like that - like most men are idiots or what Saga says at some point (I think story justified it but...).

TLoU2 was really into it - main protagonist is ultra masculine woman and the biggest problem of post apocalyptic world (when it's hard to survive even one day) is that some people are not tolerated because they are LGBT... LOL.

 

[Gonzito]

I dont fucking care the colour of the skin of a character or their sexual orientation as long as they are well written and dont feel out of placve. What I hate is pandering and to be preached a particular ideology. That is all I have to say about this matter

 

[nkarafo]

I only play games with white male, straight protagonists because i've been told representation is important. So i do my part representing myself.

 

[Insanemaelstrom]

I don't mind as long as the game is good and they aren't lecturing me.



I am not the type to call a game "woke" just because there is a little black girl in some parts of the game. I am also not the type to play suicide squad or dragon age veilguard, since they both have a strong "message" and seem more interested in lecturing me than actually having a good game.



There is a middle ground in all this and I prefer to stay within it.

 

[Jimmy_liv]

The context. I think the context of the said woke agenda really matters. Also how studio executes what ever they were planing on sayin is crutial.

Two great example of this;
Tlou part 2 has a lesbian lead, a trans character and his whole story arc and a very manly straight woman. I am not bothered with them at all since it was executed so well.

DA Vailgard has a nonbinary character and their whole story arc, desparetly non offensive writing and everything about this game is annoying as fuck because all were depicted terribly (though i played to completion)

Is the correct answer.

 

[midnightAI]

AW2 has some stuff like that - like most men are idiots or what Saga says at some point (I think story justified it but...).

TLoU2 was really into it - main protagonist is ultra masculine woman and the biggest problem of post apocalyptic world (when it's hard to survive even one day) is that some people are not tolerated because they are LGBT... LOL.

So the biggest problem wasn't the infected? Or the various factions fighting for power? must have played a different game

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

As a non-western guy, for me the "good diversity" is more about cultural differences than skin color, sexual orientation or gender.

Yes, the whole idea that variation in skin color contributes to "diversity" is racist in itself. Cultural differences are real, the ones presumed to be based off of skin color not.

 

[Bojji]

I don't know...making a game about a chinese merchant in the roman empire? There's a reason that i can't do it?

It's like making the game about 1579 Japan and using black man as main protagonist (maybe only black person on Japanese islands at the time?).

So the biggest problem wasn't the infected? Or the various factions fighting for power? must have played a different game

For US (audience) this was shown as VERY BIG and serious problem. LoU2 is a story about revenge but this stuff is pretty big in the game.

I like this game very much, but it's full of woke agenda.

 

[Humdinger]

Many others have articulated it well already. It's when it is forced, artificial, and agenda-laden (the agenda being identity politics, gender ideology) rather than something arising organically out of the story. It usually shows in crappy writing.