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[SantaC]

SE really managed to take old school turnbased combat into fun modern combat without comprimising its core. It is definitely one of the best battle system you can get in any JRPG.

Final Fantasy VII Rebirth oozes perfection; the only downside is that is a middle game. I cant wait for the third and final one.

 

[Madflavor]

Ever since they abandoned turn based combat the series has struggled to come up with a good combat system to match. Remake/Rebirth finally did it right. It's a beautiful marriage of action with turn based elements and imo should be the formula moving forward. Not sure why they keep feeling the need to reinvent the wheel instead of refining it with each new entry.

 

[lh032]

not sure is it me but most enemies in the game dont use magic on you for some reason.

 

[Valt7786]

Yep it's absolutely perfect as far as I'm concerned. Can't wait to see how they expand it even further for part 3.
Would love to see a version of it for a FF8 remake too.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

It's the perfect fushion of being tactical whilst also feeling fluid like an action game.

I also love the realtime cutscenes you get during some battles.

I hope they keep building on the system for the next big FF game, whether 17 or a remake of 10.

 

[OGM_Madness]

I agree that the system is really good. It’s not perfect, but really really good. How each character plays differently (much like a fighting game) is perfect! The materia system is the best Square as made, although I can think of ways to improve it (loadouts for one, more 8-slot equipments so that it can be easier to mix-match characters, etc).

They could even make it like FFX where you could tag characters in and out of the fight! That way you have incentive on preparing the other off characters in case you need to tag them in (there’s a Backline mechanic already in, but let me swap in real time if turns out my Ice materia is in Barret and he isn’t currently in the party).

However, the one main aspect I’d love to see re-worked is the Summons. I feel like Summons in FF7 Remake/Rebirth are weightless.

I rather they make it cost MP (like a Super Blizzaga for Shiva, that breaks the 9999 without Genji Gloves) and give us a minute long cutscene (that can be skipped after the first time) but can only be used once per battle.

Also, the whole VR is crap. I rather they make all fights fit between the narrative of the game. The Gold Saucer and Dustbowl arena are great alternatives. Unfortunately, the VR fits inside the meta-narrative they are aiming for (don’t let your dreams be dreams! If you believe, it’ll become true!) so pretty sure they can’t wipe it for part 3.

 

[Brock2621]

I agree with this thread title.... now I am out.

 

[TheAtomicPile]

I'm new to the series, but after playing FF16, Remake, and Rebirth, the combat in 16 feels like a significant step back from the other two.

I don't remember anything in 16 keeping me as engaged as some of the tougher fights in Rebirth. FF16 made it way too easy to win just by cycling the special moves while you wait for the cool downs.

I still liked 16 overall, but I do hope the series continues with systems that build off of Rebirth.

 

[March Climber]

I'm new to the series, but after playing FF16, Remake, and Rebirth, the combat in 16 feels like a significant step back from the other two.

I don't remember anything in 16 keeping me as engaged as some of the tougher fights in Rebirth. FF16 made it way too easy to win just by cycling the special moves while you wait for the cool downs.

I still liked 16 overall, but I do hope the series continues with systems that build off of Rebirth.

16 is simply a 50+ hour Devil May Cry game. I agree that it’s combat should only be contained to that game, like each entry has done so far. I also think they should have had hard mode unlockable from the start somehow. The real challenge exists there and they underestimated the fanbase’s level of skill(and patience).

As far as recent action FF goes, this is my ranking:

FF Rebirth/Remake
FF Stranger of Paradise
FF16
FF15
FF Type 0

I have not played Crisis Core Reunion yet to rank it.

 

[Synless]

Remake and Rebirth are divine to play.

 

[Danjin44]

not sure is it me but most enemies in the game dont use magic on you for some reason.

They do, I saw multiple enemies casting Firaga or Blizarga, heck I even saw some them use Gravity magic which takes half of your health.

 

[RCU005]

I’m currently playing Final Fantasy XVI after having finished Rebirth, and I can’t just stop thinking about how awesome would’ve been to have Rebirth’s combat but with elements of XVI’s.

I, too, believe it’s a good idea that SE should focus on refine FF7’s combat, and add a twist that accommodates the new game.

I also believe that they won’t go back to turn based combat as long as they keep having realistic graphics, however Final Fantasy is a franchise that could have different concepts just like how Zelda and Mario have 2D and 3D.

 

[Hudo]

It's certainly the most streamlined version of the KH combat system.

 

[RCU005]

It's certainly the most streamlined version of the KH combat system.

Good point.

It will be interesting to see if it will influence Kingdom Hearts IV’s combat in any way.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

I like it a lot. A turn-based system with action happening in real-time. They struck a good balance so it has AAA spectacularity without deviating too much from the original game fundamentals.

 

[Hudo]

Good point.

It will be interesting to see if it will influence Kingdom Hearts IV’s combat in any way.

From the KH4 teaser trailer, I got the feeling it will be more contextual w.r.t including the environment in a stylish way.

 

[Dr. Claus]

16 is simply a 50+ hour Devil May Cry game. I agree that it’s combat should only be contained to that game, like each entry has done so far. I also think they should have had hard mode unlockable from the start somehow. The real challenge exists there and they underestimated the fanbase’s level of skill(and patience).

As far as recent action FF goes, this is my ranking:

FF Rebirth/Remake
FF Stranger of Paradise
FF16
FF15
FF Type 0

I have not played Crisis Core Reunion yet to rank it.

I would like to see the FF16 combat system expanded upon. Just a few minor fixes could make a night and day difference. Upgrading specific abilities so they don't feel like they become pointless as you unlock a new Eikon, some better balancing of numbers, and increased difficulty and elemental damage/resistance numbers could make it more interesting.

 

[OGM_Madness]

It's certainly the most streamlined version of the KH combat system.

Streamlined is not the word I’d use. The opposite. I haven’t played KH3 yet, but I understand you cannot switch to Donald or Goofy, and the abilities are more rigid/unlockable. Making KH the more streamlined version of this system, so if anything FF7R builds off from this system.

FF has that level of personality, in that you can make somewhat of a build. However, you are building off the characters main set of abilities which are incredibly deep on their own. So all the materia ends up gravy on top.

 

[balls of snow]

Yes yes yes. These are the top tier battle system. They also improve the fuck outta Remake by adding synergy skills/abilities. Having Barret's bullets bouncing off Cloud's sword to juggling a staggered enemy mid air feels so good. Synergy skills being spammable as a means to build ATB keeps the 'boring' part of combat from being stale over the runtime of the game.

 

[aygomyownroad]

FFVII was my favourite game of the PS era, and I haven’t played the remakes until last week as I was apprehensive as to the combat.
I love this game, and focusing on combat alone it’s really good, I’m still getting to grips with it but they have really nailed it.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Synergy Abilities don't stop you from taking damage during the animation and Summon system is still garbage. Other then that combat is great. Wouldn't say perfect. Games like Relink, Bayo 2, Nioh 2, Ninja Gaiden Sigma has spoiled me.

I do appreciate some of the tech you can do in Rebirth though.

 

[lestar]

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Yes yes yes. These are the top tier battle system. They also improve the fuck outta Remake by adding synergy skills/abilities. Having Barret's bullets bouncing off Cloud's sword to juggling a staggered enemy mid air feels so good. Synergy skills being spammable as a means to build ATB keeps the 'boring' part of combat from being stale over the runtime of the game.

Been thinking how they can top the synergy skills in the final game and then hit it me, imagine 3 member combination attacks. (although given the number of combinations it might be hard to pull off but I hope they try).

 

[Hudo]

Streamlined is not the word I’d use. The opposite. I haven’t played KH3 yet, but I understand you cannot switch to Donald or Goofy, and the abilities are more rigid/unlockable. Making KH the more streamlined version of this system, so if anything FF7R builds off from this system.

FF has that level of personality, in that you can make somewhat of a build. However, you are building off the characters main set of abilities which are incredibly deep on their own. So all the materia ends up gravy on top.

Well, then maybe the better word is "more refined" instead of streamlined.

 

[March Climber]

I would like to see the FF16 combat system expanded upon. Just a few minor fixes could make a night and day difference. Upgrading specific abilities so they don't feel like they become pointless as you unlock a new Eikon, some better balancing of numbers, and increased difficulty and elemental damage/resistance numbers could make it more interesting.

I agree, I guess I just find it hard to change anything without also changing the game’s identity and combat. What many people here(and in other threads involving 16) are essentially asking for is for FF16 to include more features based around magic(including enemy strengths and weaknesses).

This would require the game to remove the limiter it’s placed on the character loadout, because you would need access to all 4 elements at all times(the 5th one wouldn’t need to be a requirement). That also changes the pacing of the game itself as you acquire those magical abilities based on where you are in the story, and it changes certain story beats like Clive slowly learning what he actually is.

Adding things like undead and using phoenix down on them would require a changing of the targeting system and ‘item assignments’ when using them.

They sort of painted themselves into a corner with how they structured the game to the point where any requested changes would require a change in structure and gameplay mechanics.

Even from saying all of this, I still very much enjoyed 16’s gameplay and would love a serious 20hr prequel story starring Cid. Bloat, sidequests, and story pacing are what hampered down 16, and eventually I feel that PC modders will trim the fat once they get ahold of the game, potentially having a more definitive experience.

 

[Fbh]

Yeah it's fantastic, it's a great mix of real time action while still having a bit of a tactical feeling and offering cool looking battles.
Maybe more importantly to me, it's one of the few real time combat systems that still makes you feel like you are playing as a party, with the easy character switching which is encouraged through enemy design (and now the team up moves too). One thing I always hated about the shift from turn based to real time in many JRPGs was that sense that you are only playing as a single character during combat. (with a retarded AI party most of the time)

I really hope Square uses the foundations of this combat on future games beyond this VII revival franchise. Wouldn't mind if it becomes the core gameplay for a couple of new mainline FF entries either.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

I'll shit on the remakes when I can but the combat second time around with a proper selection of characters was ACTUALLY good to play.

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

I actually agree that this system is superb but I could only see things that way on hard difficulty. On normal you just win with persistence, but on hard you have to really crack open how to pressure an enemy. Pressuring can be very simple for normal enemies, like exploiting their elemental weakness, but very complex and strategic for boss fights. I really love this because it combines the fluid movement, timing and reflexes of a great action game with the depth of thoughtful, turn-based combat. These things shouldn't be able to go together, and they found a way to do it.

I wouldn't say it being a middle game is a downside because that means there's more to come! I am bummed to hear it under performed in sales though, since I enjoyed it so much.

After I got the platinum, I couldn't move on from the game. For a few days I would just fire it up and do solo battles against the summons trying to beat my times. I had to uninstall it to make myself stop playing it.

 

[Skifi28]

I like the improvements in Rebirth, very fluid combos and dodging. On the other hand, remake was really clunky. If you ever think you're useless, just remember there's the dodge button in remake. Switching stances was also very cumbersome which they fixed.

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

Yeah it's fantastic, it's a great mix of real time action while still having a bit of a tactical feeling and offering cool looking battles.
Maybe more importantly to me, it's one of the few real time combat systems that still makes you feel like you are playing as a party, with the easy character switching which is encouraged through enemy design (and now the team up moves too). One thing I always hated about the shift from turn based to real time in many JRPGs was that sense that you are only playing as a single character during combat. (with a retarded AI party most of the time)

I really hope Square uses the foundations of this combat on future games beyond this VII revival franchise. Wouldn't mind if it becomes the core gameplay for a couple of new mainline FF entries either.

Agreed on all that.

It was unnecessary to have your other party members present on the sideline of the battle doing attacks in rebirth just to make it feel more like everyone was working together, but I really appreciated it.

 

[sigmaZ]

I've had very little issue with it but I feel like magic was downplayed a bit with all the free magic attacks. Also, I definately think the battle menus require sorting and subcategories. It would be cool if they let players have the option to customize them.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I agree, I guess I just find it hard to change anything without also changing the game’s identity and combat. What many people here(and in other threads involving 16) are essentially asking for is for FF16 to include more features based around magic(including enemy strengths and weaknesses).

This would require the game to remove the limiter it’s placed on the character loadout, because you would need access to all 4 elements at all times(the 5th one wouldn’t need to be a requirement). That also changes the pacing of the game itself as you acquire those magical abilities based on where you are in the story, and it changes certain story beats like Clive slowly learning what he actually is.

Adding things like undead and using phoenix down on them would require a changing of the targeting system and ‘item assignments’ when using them.

They sort of painted themselves into a corner with how they structured the game to the point where any requested changes would require a change in structure and gameplay mechanics.

Even from saying all of this, I still very much enjoyed 16’s gameplay and would love a serious 20hr prequel story starring Cid. Bloat, sidequests, and story pacing are what hampered down 16, and eventually I feel that PC modders will trim the fat once they get ahold of the game, potentially having a more definitive experience.

I think that is the best thing with Final Fantasy games. We aren’t beholden to limiting ourselves with the previous entires lore and history. Say in FF17, we get the abilities to choose loadouts similar to 16, but we can attach or enchant specific attacks with specific elements on command. Have a party member, say a green mage, cast Fira on our sword. Now our sword does more damage to ice based enemies, but heals fire based ones.

The gameplay works well for the story and characters for 16. But it can be changed and altered for any future narratives they design, but want to utilize a similar combat system.

 

[March Climber]

I think that is the best thing with Final Fantasy games. We aren’t beholden to limiting ourselves with the previous entires lore and history. Say in FF17, we get the abilities to choose loadouts similar to 16, but we can attach or enchant specific attacks with specific elements on command. Have a party member, say a green mage, cast Fira on our sword. Now our sword does more damage to ice based enemies, but heals fire based ones.

This sounds like a great system to use for a new entry, as you could even assign something like each of the 4 elements to each of the triggers as attack modifiers or different commands.

The gameplay works well for the story and characters for 16. But it can be changed and altered for any future narratives they design, but want to utilize a similar combat system.

For fans of 16 who want an evolution of it’s gameplay, this is all we can hope for. Unlike the early NES/SNES turn based games that built upon each other, so far the action FF’s have all played differently enough to the point where they feel like entirely different games.

That’s exciting though because there’s still room too do something entirely different. For example what if they made a first person FF game? It could happen

 

[Dr. Claus]

This sounds like a great system to use for a new entry, as you could even assign something like each of the 4 elements to each of the triggers as attack modifiers or different commands.


For fans of 16 who want an evolution of it’s gameplay, this is all we can hope for. Unlike the early NES/SNES turn based games that built upon each other, so far the action FF’s have all played differently enough to the point where they feel like entirely different games.

That’s exciting though because there’s still room too do something entirely different. For example what if they made a first person FF game? It could happen

Personally? I would kill for this system in a Musou style final fantasy game. The fact we still haven’t had a warriors game based on FF is criminal.

 

[Radical_3d]

SE really managed to take old school turnbased combat into fun modern combat without comprimising its core. It is definitely one of the best battle system you can get in any JRPG.

Final Fantasy VII Rebirth oozes perfection; the only downside is that is a middle game. I cant wait for the third and final one.

You mean the combat system where the dodge button doesn’t dodges? Hmmmm…

 

[Dr. Claus]

You mean the combat system where the dodge button doesn’t dodges? Hmmmm…

It does. You just need to git gud.

 

[Radical_3d]

It does. You just need to git gud.

Some SantaC guy and some Dr. Claus guy agree on this, uh… I see…

 

[Loomy]

I would like to see the FF16 combat system expanded upon. Just a few minor fixes could make a night and day difference. Upgrading specific abilities so they don't feel like they become pointless as you unlock a new Eikon, some better balancing of numbers, and increased difficulty and elemental damage/resistance numbers could make it more interesting.

I would also like to see it expanded upon. Just not in a Final Fantasy game. As much as I loved 16.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Some SantaC guy and some Dr. Claus guy agree on this, uh… I see…

Nah, I am not retarded enough to make alts.

 

[sigmaZ]

I would also like to see it expanded upon. Just not in a Final Fantasy game. As much as I loved 16.

This. I would love to see Square have it's own Devil May Cry action series but fantasy based. Just keep it away from LARPing as a Final Fantasy game.

 

[kiphalfton]

For a final fantasy game, it's about as good as it gets. Relative to other action RPG's still pretty good but not great. Relative to Kingdom Hearts, it is absolute crap.

 

[stickkidsam]

I fuckin LOVE how the combat rewards juggling each character through the battle! If you want to just play one character, you can. If you can master your whole party though you get rewarded big time! It’s such a perfect balance. Rebirth adding tag team abilities cements this as one of my favorite actions combat systems!

The one thing I would like to see changed is the summons. As cool as it is to see them on the field, they have lost a lot of impact. Not just in their power either. Their “ultimate” moves are really lacking compared to how badass they were in the original. Compare Bahamut Arisen to Neo Bahamut and it’s no contest.

Unlocking them in the VR rather than finding them in the world also just feels wrong. I love fighting them, but it would be cooler to fight them after finding them. Like finding a legendary Pokémon and battling it to capture it.

 

[Kumomeme]

personally Remake is most perfect. well balanced, well designed, well thought. simple to get, but has depth to master.

Rebirth supposed to be an upgrade/expanded but it is a bit bloated IMO.

materia system is a cheff kiss.

the basic core design of the combat like instant character switching and slow mo when give command should be a new standard foward. new combat system should be based on this element.

 

[Pejo]

I didn't care for Remake combat but I keep reading that they refined it a bit in Rebirth, I'll see that when I pick up the game. To me, the advantage of turn based combat allows you to use a whole party instead of just controlling one character the majority of the time and letting the AI do the rest. That's why I typically don't like action combat in JRPGs.

 

[EverydayBeast]

I don’t recall anything over the top with ff7 remake’s combat, if it’s verse horizon, or ac Valhalla I think the combat is faster in those games.

 

[Gamerguy84]

It is great and I agree with this post. The cool thing is if you want turn based back, and there are advantages, it's just a setting.

 

[March Climber]

I would also like to see it expanded upon. Just not in a Final Fantasy game. As much as I loved 16.

This. I would love to see Square have it's own Devil May Cry action series but fantasy based. Just keep it away from LARPing as a Final Fantasy game.

I think games like Stranger of Paradise, 7 Remake, and FF 16 did a great job of opening up the idea that FF can expand into more subgenres than just Turn based RPG, Tactical RPG, and Action RPG.

There are other RPG mixtures they can tap into now and that’s an exciting thought.

 

[diffusionx]

I don't like this combat system. I wish they would put in a true turn based ATB mode.

I don't know why Square is doing this when games like XCOM, Baldur's Gate 3, Yakuza LAD, Persona, etc. show there is a lot of life in TB RPG.

 

[Revolutionary]

It's by far my favorite part of the Remake series.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

I think they could make it so the conditions for unlocking the synergy attacks is a bit harder.

I actually agree that this system is superb but I could only see things that way on hard difficulty. On normal you just win with persistence, but on hard you have to really crack open how to pressure an enemy. Pressuring can be very simple for normal enemies, like exploiting their elemental weakness, but very complex and strategic for boss fights. I really love this because it combines the fluid movement, timing and reflexes of a great action game with the depth of thoughtful, turn-based combat. These things shouldn't be able to go together, and they found a way to do it.

I wouldn't say it being a middle game is a downside because that means there's more to come! I am bummed to hear it under performed in sales though, since I enjoyed it so much.

After I got the platinum, I couldn't move on from the game. For a few days I would just fire it up and do solo battles against the summons trying to beat my times. I had to uninstall it to make myself stop playing it.

I'm yet to play on hard mode but when I replay Rebirth I'll give it a go.