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[Bojji]

I wonder if Rebirth would look just as good or better with TAAU instead.

Yeah, it used one of the worst things possible. TAAU or even fucking FSR2 (from 1080p base res) would look better than what we got on standard PS5. But they clearly didn't have enough power to do decent FSR2, TAAU on the other hand?

You expect me to do it though? You're the one trying to call other people's posts or experiences false or lies. Not me.

Maybe you missed the recent posts above? But let me guess, that's the grasses fault not DLSS!

Grass is the fault of it for not having motion vectors.

You made me do it, Cyberpunk 2077 - high settings with path tracing.

2560x1440 = native -> DLSS Q (~1080p) -> DLSS P (720p) -> same with DLSS RR -> FSR2 Q -> FSR2 P -> XeSS HQ (1080p) -> XeSS BL (720p)



Notice flickering red line on the building that is present in native but gone with DLSS.

3840x2160 version with DLSS Q (1440p) -> DLSS P (1080p) -> same with DLSS RR:

 

[winjer]

Yeah, it used one of the worst things possible. TAAU or even fucking FSR2 (from 1080p base res) would look better than what we got on standard PS5. But they clearly didn't have enough power to do decent FSR2, TAAU on the other hand?

The version of UE4 that Final Fantasy uses, predates the implementation of TAAU.
And FSR2 and DLSS, require UE4.26 or later.
This means that SE would have to create custom code to implement these.

I don't know the requirements for PSSR.

 

[Bojji]

The version of UE4 that Final Fantasy uses, predates the implementation of TAAU.
And FSR2 and DLSS, require UE4.26 or later.
This means that SE would have to create custom code to implement these.

I don't know the requirements for PSSR.

Yeah, this ue version excuse was good before they implement brand new pssr in it somehow...

 

[winjer]

Its not an excuse, its the reality.

Since I don't know the requirements for PSSR, i cant compare. But since its a temporal upscaler it probably requires access to motion vectors and color and depth vectors.

SE might have seen PSSR as the opportunity to finally write the custom code required to use a temporal upscaler.
Who knows maybe Sony even helped. Or the PSSR SDK has tools to make it easier.

 

[Three]

Grass is the fault of it for not having motion vectors.

So you actually went with this being the grasses fault despite it looking fine on TAA? Holy shit.
Apply your own logic remember
"DLSS on = grass issue"
"TAA = no grass issue"

So it's the "no montion vectors on grass" on PS5 Pro too, correct? Or is it the headline "PSSR has problems" in the exact same scenario and result for DLSS for some reason?

As for cyberpunk you need to lower settings not go high. That happens with low raytracing samples, res, fps. PS5 pro isn't doing full path tracing in a million years so I'm not sure why you think this would be the like for like situation to replicate a similar issue I'm referring to. You would need to replicate the settings of the users who ran into shimmering problems when they enabled DLSS so set 1080p, go low res, not path traced and max out settings. Ideally you would even need to go with the same build of DLSS and game for a fully controlled test.

Despite the claim that there were never similar issues though cyberpunk exhibited these issues when DLSS was enabled and RR got rid of a lot of the issues you see with the flicker, glint and noise. You can do things for better temporal stability but it often adds things like ghosting instead where objects that are moving blur, sometimes into non existence.

Notice the moving light gets blurred from prior frame info that results in the moving light not showing at all on DLSS. The film noise is far less noticeable than this.
Again introducing softness and ghosting for temporal stability to remove glints


And the artifacts of the improved temporal stability :

I could understand if you equally mentioned that these issues in the game were not DLSS/PSSR related for both but you don't do this. You're happy to blame blurred grass on PSSR, happy to blame specular noise and glints on PSSR but these are always somehow distanced from DLSS for you.

The claim that DLSS doesn't/didn't have similar minor issues is simply false though. These artifacts do not take away from the fact that DLSS/PSSR gives you considerable performance boosts despite these minor artifacts. In the case of DG2 it's nitpicking at best. It's far better with PSSR on the Pro. Despite the blurrier grass on PSSR/DLSS. The higher temporal stability of the default favoured the ghosting.

 

[Fabieter]

I hope for Sony thats its just launch games and future games will fare better because this is a poor showing of an expensive hardware.

 

[Gaiff]

I hope for Sony thats its just launch games and future games will fare better because this is a poor showing of an expensive hardware.

It’s a very decent showing. A bit of blurred grass and some shimmering, but the IQ and fps boost are more than enough to offset those.

 

[Bojji]

So you actually went with this being the grasses fault despite it looking fine on TAA? Holy shit.
Apply your own logic remember
"DLSS on = grass issue"
"TAA = no grass issue"

So it's the "no montion vectors on grass" on PS5 Pro too, correct? Or is it the headline "PSSR has problems" in the exact same scenario and result for DLSS for some reason?

As for cyberpunk you need to lower settings not go high. That happens with low raytracing samples, res, fps. PS5 pro isn't doing full path tracing in a million years so I'm not sure why you think this would be the like for like situation to replicate a similar issue I'm referring to. You would need to replicate the settings of the users who ran into shimmering problems when they enabled DLSS so set 1080p, go low res, not path traced and max out settings. Ideally you would even need to go with the same build of DLSS and game for a fully controlled test.

Despite the claim that there were never similar issues though cyberpunk exhibited these issues when DLSS was enabled and RR got rid of a lot of the issues you see with the flicker, glint and noise. You can do things for better temporal stability but it often adds things like ghosting instead where objects that are moving blur, sometimes into non existence.

Notice the moving light gets blurred from prior frame info that results in the moving light not showing at all on DLSS. The film noise is far less noticeable than this.
Again introducing softness and ghosting for temporal stability to remove glints
.
I could understand if you equally mentioned that these issues in the game were not DLSS/PSSR related for both but you don't do this. You're happy to blame blurred grass on PSSR, happy to blame specular noise and glints on PSSR but these are always somehow distanced from DLSS for you.

The claim that DLSS doesn't/didn't have similar minor issues is simply false though. These artifacts do not take away from the fact that DLSS/PSSR gives you considerable performance boosts despite these minor artifacts. In the case of DG2 it's nitpicking at best. It's far better with PSSR on the Pro. Despite the blurrier grass on PSSR/DLSS. The higher temporal stability of the default favoured the ghosting.

Grass looks better with higher res+TAA because without motion vectors both DLSS and PSSR don't really know that to do with it.

In the end PSSR has more issues than XeSS and DLSS, it needs to be fixed and that's why talking about it is important. Downplaying it benefits who actually? Pro owners will like to have their games fixed ASAP so Sony needs to get to work. All (or most of them) past issues with XeSS and DLSS were fixed partially thanks to DF and users feedback.

PSSR has issues in pretty much all games, even the ones where implementation is considered very good:



Will Sony fix this? Most likely, but not because of people downplaying issues with this reconstruction technique.

 

[Cyborg]

Lol, PSSR attacks again, what a joke of a upscaler man

There are plenty of cases where PSSR works so if it doesnt work its not the fault of the Pro or PSSR. You should look at the devs. Its a new tech in console so its only natural there would be some hickups. Stop being so salty

 

[Fabieter]

It’s a very decent showing. A bit of blurred grass and some shimmering, but the IQ and fps boost are more than enough to offset those.

Yea DD is one of the better ones but that pssr as the main pillar is struggling in general is really weird. Anyway it's likley that its gonna be better when devs consider the pro from the start for future games.

 

[Gaiff]

PSSR has issues in pretty much all games, even the ones where implementation is considered very good:

As does DLSS. At this point, you're asking PSSR not to have issues at all and that's unreasonable. DLSS is almost never perfect either, but combined with the performance increases and IQ improvements in some areas, it's preferable to native. However, it never beats native in every scenario. You cannot look at PSSR in a game where it's overall good but then go on to state that it has issues all the while ignoring that the same applies to DLSS. No one ever expected PSSR not to have problems. What was expected is that it would be the best upscaling alternative on consoles and in the case of The Crew Motorfest, it is. That it has some minor issues is mostly inconsequential because all upscalers do. Even native+TAA has things it does worse than DLSS or PSSR. The only "perfect" one is DLAA.

Yea DD is one of the better ones but that pssr as the main pillar is struggling in general is really weird. Anyway it's likley that its gonna be better when devs consider the pro from the start for future games.

I wouldn't say "in general". It does have serious issues in a number of notable games, but it's working as intended more often than not. We cannot just apply higher standards to it than we do for other upscalers.

 

[Three]

Grass looks better with higher res+TAA because without motion vectors both DLSS and PSSR don't really know that to do with it.

You ignore what's presented to you to go back to an argument already discussed about hiding behind "highlighting issues for the greater good" . Answer the simple question is it DLSS' fault that the grass is blurry when DLSS is enabled? since it's blurry with it's enabled, remember "Mr detective"? Is it not the grasses fault and not PSSRs too then, therefore this is not a PSSR issue that needs fixing?

In the same vein when games use lower base res with PSSR vs TAA at higher res for improved performance despite these artifacts is it a PSSR/DLSS issue or not? Apply the same logic.

In the end PSSR has more issues than XeSS and DLSS, it needs to be fixed and that's why talking about it is important. Downplaying it benefits who actually? Pro owners will like to have their games fixed ASAP so Sony needs to get to work. All (or most of them) past issues with XeSS and DLSS were fixed partially thanks to DF and users feedback.

PSSR has issues in pretty much all games, even the ones where implementation is considered very good:

So does DLSS in a lot of them. Artifacts are normal but often minor vs the overall upscaled image quality or better performance.

 

[Bojji]

You ignore what's presented to you to go back to an argument already discussed about hiding behind "highlighting issues for the greater good" . Answer the simple question is it DLSS' fault that the grass is blurry when DLSS is enabled? since it's blurry with it's enabled, remember "Mr detective"? Is it not the grasses fault and not PSSRs too then, therefore this is not a PSSR issue that needs fixing?

In the same vein when games use lower base res with PSSR vs TAA at higher res for improved performance despite these artifacts is it a PSSR/DLSS issue or not? Apply the same logic.

So does DLSS in a lot of them. Artifacts are normal but often minor vs the overall upscaled image quality or better performance.

Why the fuck even focus on the grass? I never said word about grass quality in this game before you bringed it up.

Grass is a simple thing, without motion vectors moving objects are a problem to all reconstruction techniques.

If you are fine with what PSSR shows so far - I guess you are perfect consumer for Sony lol.

 

[Three]

Why the fuck even focus on the grass? I never said word about grass quality in this game before you bringed it up.
Grass is a simple thing, without motion vectors moving objects are a problem to all reconstruction techniques.



If you are fine with what PSSR shows so far - I guess you are perfect consumer for Sony lol.

You seem confused to the point where you don't even know what you're arguing. What do you think the DF video in the thread you are in is highlighting exactly? Why focus on grass in this game to begin with then with a "PSSR has issues" title to go with it? Then you suggesting they are providing a service so that "they fix PSSR". Avoided the question as usual though with this "nobody was talking about grass".

 

[Gaiff]

Funnily enough, DF was far more impressed with Stellar Blade's IQ than they were with Dragon's Dogma 2, but for NxGamer, it was the opposite. He thought the implementation of PSSR in Stellar Blade was middling and sang praise about DD2.

As I said, watch the analysis, but the conclusion belongs to you. Just because they say something is good or bad doesn't mean it's factual. It's their opinion on the matter. They're not an authority.

 

[Bojji]

You seem confused to the point where you don't even know what you're arguing. What do you think the DF video in the thread you are in is highlighting exactly? Why focus on grass in this game to begin with then with a "PSSR has issues" title to go with it? Then you suggesting they are providing a service so that "they fix PSSR". Avoided the question as usual though with this "nobody was talking about grass".

You can see my first post in this thread, I focused on PSSR issues with SSAO and RT. I didn't talk about grass because I already knew this element had issues with upscalers.

DF video mentions all issues in this game, including grass that also has (or had?) problems with other upscalers.

Some quick test in DD2 - DLSS B (~1200p) -> off (native 4k) -> FSR3 Q (1440p) -> DLSS P (1080p):

 

[Three]

You can see my first post in this thread, I focused on PSSR issues with SSAO and RT. I didn't talk about grass because I already knew this element had issues with upscalers.

You beat around the bush way too much. I asked you a simple question using your logic of "when upscaler is on problem shows therefore its the upscaler" using an example where again "DLSS has a similar issue to PSSR" and you simply kept avoiding answering the question suggesting it's the grasses/games fault. You could argue the same is true with the denoiser used and everything else in a game when PSSR/DLSS is enabled till the cows come home though.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

There were definitely some that thought they might.

It doesn't even seem like its performing too badly to be fair. Lots of similarities with DLSS it seems going by the posts in here.

It will improve with time just like DLSS but Nvidia has such a lead.

 

[Kings Field]

People worried about fucking grass when the FPS boost is the most important thing and that's a win.

 

[sachos]

And the people who say baked lighting can look just as good are lying. Especially large sandbox or open world games. My case in point:



Does anyone think the lighting of this in motion looks anywhere close to the games with RTGI.

Yeah, it has that "glowing rock in shadows" problem. Still, that video is wrongly encoded so it looks awful in SDR.

 

[rkofan87]

the graphics mode really should have just kept the Checkerboard rendering it seems

this a 60fps is all i need

 

[gerth666]

Funnily enough, DF was far more impressed with Stellar Blade's IQ than they were with Dragon's Dogma 2, but for NxGamer, it was the opposite. He thought the implementation of PSSR in Stellar Blade was middling and sang praise about DD2.

As I said, watch the analysis, but the conclusion belongs to you. Just because they say something is good or bad doesn't mean it's factual. It's their opinion on the matter. They're not an authority.

Well said. Everyone take note of what this person says.
I said before, in my opinion the pro version looks and plays so much better then the amatuer