Agreed. What id give for a patch for ray tracing 60fps or at least 40
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Digital Foundry: Cyberpunk 2077 Phantom Liberty - DF Tech Review - PS5/Xbox Series Tests + 2.0 Upgrade Breakdown
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
BigLee74
Member
Same old stooges acting like they don’t know what VRS is every single game. It would appear you can’t teach a blue dog new tricks! 
For what it’s worth, outside of the zoomed in screenshots of affected areas, I haven’t noticed its implementation once in any game. It obviously does its job, or they wouldn’t bother. Mind you, just what job it is doing exactly, only the devs can tell you. Certainly appears minimal!
For what it’s worth, outside of the zoomed in screenshots of affected areas, I haven’t noticed its implementation once in any game. It obviously does its job, or they wouldn’t bother. Mind you, just what job it is doing exactly, only the devs can tell you. Certainly appears minimal!
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Agreed. What id give for a patch for ray tracing 60fps or at least 40
The game is not hitting consistent 60 without RT and goes as low as 1080p. If you want a 60 FPS RT mode, be ready for Immortals of Aveum style sub 720p resolutions on PS5/SX.
SKYF@ll
Member
私は PS5 と Xbox Series X の両方で Doom Eternal も所有しています。
何を言っているのか理解できません。
実機の画像を添付しましたので、見比べてみてください。
onnextflix5
Member
It has vrs on Xbox yet ps5 version still runs better 
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
私は PS5 と Xbox Series X の両方で Doom Eternal も所有しています。
何を言っているのか理解できません。
実機の画像を添付しましたので、見比べてみてください。
That's .. not VRS. That's just a difference in the enemy texture either being higher quality on PS5 or not fully loaded on Xbox.
You're right about the resolution. Per DF: In the 60 FPS RT mode both have ceiling of 1800p but SX is generally higher DRS. And in the 120fps mode PS5 has a ceiling of 1584p and SX has a ceiling of 1800p.
The VRS segment from their video is time stamped. No degredation noted in game play, outside of 400% zoom.
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Thirty7ven
Banned
It has vrs on Xbox yet ps5 version still runs better
Crazy considering they are at the forefront of game visuals, pushing new rendering techniques on PC, they are mainly PC devs, and let’s not forget how Sony treated them by delisting the game.
You would think the console with RDNA 1.5 and no VRS would be left in the dust.
SKYF@ll
Member
The previous image is a cutscene, and the next one is an image of the character stopped moving for about 10 seconds.
It's not a streaming delay, but the textures of the PS5 version of both enemies and backgrounds look like they are of high quality.
You can see the difference even without 400% zoom.
It seems that both we and DF are too concerned with resolution and cannot see things.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Just turned on CP on PS5 and it does look excellent
I actually prefer RT mode with motion blur off. Looks really sharp and the HDR is also fixed!
Wondering if I should start over from scratch or go right into Phantom Liberty
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Riky
$MSFT
Those shots were debunked back on release, fanboys we're using shots from different modes and even Series S. Also VRS is resolved by frame so wouldn't appear in front of you in bright scenes.
Best to stick to professional outlets for comparisons, we've seen the same tricks with Fortnite comparisons on Twitter.
DJ12
Member
People can champion VRS all they like, but the reality is it does reduce image quality.
VRS is useful when eye tracking is available, every other time they have no idea where your looking so if you do happen to look where VRS has worked its 'magic' it's going to look shit, no question about it.
Let them have the copium.
VRS is useful when eye tracking is available, every other time they have no idea where your looking so if you do happen to look where VRS has worked its 'magic' it's going to look shit, no question about it.
Let them have the copium.
SKYF@ll
Member
For reference all my images are of my Xbox Series X and PS5 in RT mode (60fps).
I do not have an Xbox Series S.
Mr Moose
Member
Physiognomonics
Member
In the city (and not only during the night according to DF ) the game consistently runs from 5fps to 10fps higher on PS5. Seeing how the XSS actually outperforms XSX I'd say the resolution is too high on XSX as it doesn't seem to be I/O related based on the frame-time stats.
) the game consistently runs from 5fps to 10fps higher on PS5. Seeing how the XSS actually outperforms XSX I'd say the resolution is too high on XSX as it doesn't seem to be I/O related based on the frame-time stats.
Riky
$MSFT
"Xbox Series X operates at a dynamic 1800p, while PlayStation 5 tops out at 1584p - and it is visibly blurrier."
Doom Eternal's next-gen patch tested on PS5 and Xbox Series consoles
Released at the tail-end of last week, Doom Eternal's upgrade for PC and next generation consoles is an important relea…
www.eurogamer.net
Bojji
Member
In the city (and not only during the night according to DF
It's CPU most likely, we have seen many times now that despite being nearly identical PS5 CPU can perform better. It's probably API related.
Mr Moose
Member
So which looks better to you? 1 or 2?"Xbox Series X operates at a dynamic 1800p, while PlayStation 5 tops out at 1584p - and it is visibly blurrier."
Doom Eternal's next-gen patch tested on PS5 and Xbox Series consoles
Released at the tail-end of last week, Doom Eternal's upgrade for PC and next generation consoles is an important relea…
Riky
$MSFT
I've played it on both machines, I'd rather have a higher overall resolution that is visible and take the shading hit in areas where it's barely noticeable and not noticeable in gameplay.
id and DF seem to agree.
Physiognomonics
Member
But what about the XSS outperforming XSX here?
Horseganador
Member
Is this recent? Seriously, they are still like this in DF almost 3 years later.
Bojji
Member
Yeah, this fucks up my theory... lol
Looks like just like you said, resolution targets are too high.
MasterCornholio
Member
Team Andromeda
Member
If you need to use free frame shots or zoom in 300% not really, because nobody plays games like that. Like I've said time and time again. You invest in a decent new TV with VRR and you get to see the next gen shine. The game looks and runs amazing on the Series X.
Such a shame thanks to a silly media backlash the Red engine is being dumped for Unreal 5. Thanks for nothing DF.
Hugare
Member
That depends.
The beginning of the game is too story heavy, so it sucks on multiple playthroughs.
I've started all over because it's been a while since I experienced it, but everything up to the end of the heist feels like a chore to play.
It's 90% about the eye candy, not so much about gameplay.
And most importantly, it hasnt changed at all since previous patches.
So if you still have it fresh in your mind, I would go directly to Phantom Liberty
DJ12
Member
The thing is you don't need to zoom in at all.
I refused to play dirt 5 on pc until they added an option to turn that shit off.
Fair play to you if you don't notice it, but to say you can only see it at 300% zoom is wrong and shows you don't really understand what it does.
Full 4k output you could argue a clump of 4 pixels all being the same won't be noticeable but when you are 1080-1440 you will definitely see them, it's just a fact you don't need to reply back with more copium.
Arioco
Member
There was so much hype because VRS was supposed to save GPU resources (that devs could use for something else, like higher resolution and/or performance) by reducing the quality of the shading in parts of the image we wouldn't notice, like really dark areas or things far away in the distance, so it would provide a nice boost with no real trade offs. In practice it's proven to be a bit tricky to implement right. I'm yet to see a game that uses this feature with the results I expected. Doom Eternal would be the closest (as you would expect from ID, those guys are tech geniuses), but still... you can see the VRS artifacts if you really look for it.
In some cases like Dead Space Remake the results in IQ were so poor that devs decided to disable VRS completely on PS5 and Series X with an update. And to top it all once disabled we could compare performance with and without VRS and the performance gains were actually negligible, so it clearly wasn't worth it in this particular game, which is kind of surprising because this game (basically corridors with very dark areas) looked like the ideal scenario to let VRS shine.
So yes, VRS seems to be a bit more difficult to implement (right) than some of us initially expected.
Was Dirt 5 using Tier 1 or Tier 2 VRS though?
Riky
$MSFT
Tier 1, one of the Devs now works at playground games and was talking about starting to explore tier 2 for Fable.
Lysandros
Member
Unable to evolve an inch, blinded by bias, all that they can do is to create narratives used to fuel crude conspiracies. The main reason of those machines performing on par is in plain sight and easy to grasp for those who have eyes and brains: Evenly matched hardware. Such a painful truth to digest isn't it?
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Skifi28
Member
When VRR fails, hit 'em with VRS. When that fails too, cpu fan goes VRRRRRR. Go get' em tiger!"Xbox Series X operates at a dynamic 1800p, while PlayStation 5 tops out at 1584p - and it is visibly blurrier."
Doom Eternal's next-gen patch tested on PS5 and Xbox Series consoles
Released at the tail-end of last week, Doom Eternal's upgrade for PC and next generation consoles is an important relea…
Superayate
Member
Yep, that's showing that's GPU/memory related. Could have been interesting ti have the overall res during that moment.
Superayate
Member
Seems only Gears 5 is using it in a really good way in its DLC.
It could be I/0 related as NXGamer IGN videos shows the load times and the PS5 loads in 8 seconds and and the Series' consoles are loading in the double digits.In the city (and not only during the night according to DF
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blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Mabe Microsoft will unlock the 2 teraflops of extra power when PS5 Pro is released.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
He's using a quote from DF, this topic is about DF. What a weird tangent.
Sethbacca
Member
So far I'm happy I waited to play the game till 2.0. I put in about 4-5 hours when it dropped, and I'm back up to about that point now, but the city just feels so much more alive and the game just feels better. I keep finding myself wanting to go back and play it now, and I wasn't feeling that when I was playing it the first time.
JimboJones
Member
Its a valid question though if you take a step back and take off the tinfoil hat.
Why did MS design it that way, now they are in this position where their is "superior" box is underperforming.
MS really need to be asking those questions internally because they obviously fucked up.
I have no clue what picture is PS5 and Xbox but to me number 2 looks better and sharper with more details.
John Wick
Member
They have to keep Riky happy. Those darn full spec RDNA2 features will deliver soon.
Skifi28
Member
Do we have confirmation at which zoom level it starts looking bad?The Xbox version doesn’t look bad when playing and not zoomed x 400.
But you guys are on a roll so keep it up!
Spitfire098
Member
MS will ask why devs focus more time and dev resources on optimization for the more popular console??
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RoboFu
One of the green rats
Just put your face direct on your tv screen and slowly back up until it comes into focus. That much.
Horseganador
Member
Team Andromeda
Member
Clearly, you do, otherwise, DF wouldn't have to try and prove a point. Still, that's DF world more people play their console games with the TV zoomed in 300% to playing a game with VRR enabled
Vergil1992
Member
Hello, it's my first message. My English is basic-medium, I hope I can be understood correctly even if I sound strange.
I think the performance difference between PS5-XSX is being greatly exaggerated, it's a difference of more or less 5 fps in areas with multiple NPCs or driving. Essentially, it's a very similar difference to the one before the patch:
XSX always had a higher DRS and the difference seems to remain very similar. The minimum and maximum resolutions do not tell us all the details. In that VG Tech video it is clear, the minimum and maximum resolutions were the same on PS5/XSX, but however, the average resolutions higher on Xbox:
Kabuki Entrance - PS5 2176x1224, Series X 2304x1296 Near Police Station - PS5: 2435x1370, Series x1544 Streetkid Start - PS5: 2062x1160, Series X: 2062x1160
I think the problem we have here is similar to The Witcher 3. I also had problems maintaining 60fps in areas like Novigrad, especially on XSX, but after a few patches (some even made performance worse on all platforms) the performance was 1 :1 with PS5, but the resolution difference did not change.
My theory is that on the CPU side it is more difficult/problematic to optimize on Xbox Series, probably because of the API. On PC there was a lot of CPU overhead when The Witcher 3 was released. It's also possible that the resolution difference in those scenes is too high for similar performance and the problem seems to be only in Night City, not in its DLC, that the performance of PS5/XSX is very equal (I would like to know the minimum, maximum and average resolutions). Honestly, I don't think the original game code has changed much on an optimization level. It seems that on PS5 the framerate has been improved compared to the old version, but on XSX there does not seem to be an improvement at all. Maybe the PS5 version takes priority and the XSX patches will fix it? We will see it in time.
In the use of VRS, Oliver himself indicates it in the video. That is a screenshot taken in a specific situation and "looking" for the artifacts, in the normal game it is impossible to see. I'm playing the XSX version and I'm pretty sure I haven't seen objects with such a low resolution. I don't think this has much relevance; VRS doesn't improve performance much, and what Oliver has captured probably won't be visible to anyone. VG Tech also pointed out that Cyberpunk used VRS in the previous version of the game, the difference is that it didn't capture any anomalies!
Also as an added detail, loads are significantly faster on PS5/PC than XSX/XSS. Something curious because the previous version, which was essentially identical on a technological level, loaded just as fast (around 9 seconds on all platforms). We could say that the difference is due to the faster PS5/PC SSD, but that would be the case if the loads were faster than before, but on Xbox platforms they have gone from 9 seconds to 17-18 seconds. I think something is wrong here.
At this time, it can be summarized that the XSX has a higher resolution and the PS5 has a more stable framerate. At least according to DF and ElAnalistadeBits. The exact difference in resolutions is very difficult to know. In principle, when you have a higher dynamic resolution it is because you have more power and better framerate (if it works well), if in XSX it works worse despite having higher resolutions, I only see three options:
DSR is not working properly and is higher than it should be on Xbox.
DRS works, but the drops are not on the GPU side.
Everything works as it should, and CD Projekt will address this difference with some update (such as The Witcher 3).
Honestly, I think everything is practically the same as in the previous patch. Higher DRS on Xbox, more stable framerate on PS5 and on XSX it already used VRS from before. The only "new" is that the Xbox Series framerate seems to be the same or worse than before the update, while the PS5 code has received improvements. Even loads are now slower on Xbox. As I said before, it could be argued that they have now made better use of the PS5 SSD, but the thing is that the loads remain exactly the same on PC/PS5, only those on the Xbox platforms have become slower.
I think these are issues that CD Projekt will address.
I hope I don't offend anyone or have my comment be considered "console wars." I have both systems and I don't consider myself a fan of either.
I think the performance difference between PS5-XSX is being greatly exaggerated, it's a difference of more or less 5 fps in areas with multiple NPCs or driving. Essentially, it's a very similar difference to the one before the patch:
XSX always had a higher DRS and the difference seems to remain very similar. The minimum and maximum resolutions do not tell us all the details. In that VG Tech video it is clear, the minimum and maximum resolutions were the same on PS5/XSX, but however, the average resolutions higher on Xbox:
Kabuki Entrance - PS5 2176x1224, Series X 2304x1296 Near Police Station - PS5: 2435x1370, Series x1544 Streetkid Start - PS5: 2062x1160, Series X: 2062x1160
I think the problem we have here is similar to The Witcher 3. I also had problems maintaining 60fps in areas like Novigrad, especially on XSX, but after a few patches (some even made performance worse on all platforms) the performance was 1 :1 with PS5, but the resolution difference did not change.
My theory is that on the CPU side it is more difficult/problematic to optimize on Xbox Series, probably because of the API. On PC there was a lot of CPU overhead when The Witcher 3 was released. It's also possible that the resolution difference in those scenes is too high for similar performance and the problem seems to be only in Night City, not in its DLC, that the performance of PS5/XSX is very equal (I would like to know the minimum, maximum and average resolutions). Honestly, I don't think the original game code has changed much on an optimization level. It seems that on PS5 the framerate has been improved compared to the old version, but on XSX there does not seem to be an improvement at all. Maybe the PS5 version takes priority and the XSX patches will fix it? We will see it in time.
In the use of VRS, Oliver himself indicates it in the video. That is a screenshot taken in a specific situation and "looking" for the artifacts, in the normal game it is impossible to see. I'm playing the XSX version and I'm pretty sure I haven't seen objects with such a low resolution. I don't think this has much relevance; VRS doesn't improve performance much, and what Oliver has captured probably won't be visible to anyone. VG Tech also pointed out that Cyberpunk used VRS in the previous version of the game, the difference is that it didn't capture any anomalies!
Also as an added detail, loads are significantly faster on PS5/PC than XSX/XSS. Something curious because the previous version, which was essentially identical on a technological level, loaded just as fast (around 9 seconds on all platforms). We could say that the difference is due to the faster PS5/PC SSD, but that would be the case if the loads were faster than before, but on Xbox platforms they have gone from 9 seconds to 17-18 seconds. I think something is wrong here.
At this time, it can be summarized that the XSX has a higher resolution and the PS5 has a more stable framerate. At least according to DF and ElAnalistadeBits. The exact difference in resolutions is very difficult to know. In principle, when you have a higher dynamic resolution it is because you have more power and better framerate (if it works well), if in XSX it works worse despite having higher resolutions, I only see three options:
DSR is not working properly and is higher than it should be on Xbox.
DRS works, but the drops are not on the GPU side.
Everything works as it should, and CD Projekt will address this difference with some update (such as The Witcher 3).
Honestly, I think everything is practically the same as in the previous patch. Higher DRS on Xbox, more stable framerate on PS5 and on XSX it already used VRS from before. The only "new" is that the Xbox Series framerate seems to be the same or worse than before the update, while the PS5 code has received improvements. Even loads are now slower on Xbox. As I said before, it could be argued that they have now made better use of the PS5 SSD, but the thing is that the loads remain exactly the same on PC/PS5, only those on the Xbox platforms have become slower.
I think these are issues that CD Projekt will address.
I hope I don't offend anyone or have my comment be considered "console wars." I have both systems and I don't consider myself a fan of either.
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Mr Moose
Member
That video is a year old.
Bojji
Member
You can see effects at 0x zoom, but is only very visible at some objects.