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[LegendOfKage]

Destiny 2 crucible is a PVP 6v6 competitive shooter. Destiny 2 Onslaught is a PVE wave based horde mode. Destiny 2 Gambit is a game mode that combines PVE content along with limited PVP encounters. And all of it is currently locked behind a large confusing mess of free to play content mixed with paid expansions and a massive file size.

On top of all this, Concord is looking like a huge failure, and Sony still needs a quality compeitive multiplayer game.

Solution? Make "Destiny: Crucible" it's own free to play seperate download (also including onslaught and gambit), and make the rest of Destiny 2 an optional paid experience for maybe 30 or 40 dollars, all DLC included.

Allow free "Destiny: Crucible" players to gradually unlock all classes and abilities by rewarding them with each experience level, just like most shooters.

Give new players some decent weapons, allow them to unlock better weapons with experience levels, and eventually let them chase some of the best PVP and PVE weapons without ever needing to download the main game.

Put new players with other new players in a starter playlist, and gradually mix them in with other players when they have played long enough.

And finally, add some new maps and new weapons for returning players. Maybe even a new subclass to unlock.


I have to think all that would require very little investment when compared to a brand new game, and I think it could be a success for Sony if done right. If you enjoy multiplayer shooters, what are your thoughts on the subject?

 

[Fake]

Sony is not different from Microsoft about making stupid decisions. I guess this is the western mentality plain and simple.

As much I hate Destiny, you are quite right, in fact they already got the company behind Destiny, so why not leave them with this work at all?

But no, lets make the ultimate diverse multiplayer and them focus on Horizon Zero Dawn multiplayer that nobody fucking asked for.

 

[RoboFu]

Destiny is super old though. Everything that could be milked out of it has been already.

 

[StueyDuck]

Sony has only really just fully taken over bungie in term of leadership, bungie were making those bad decisions all on their own.

But after concord is that a good thing, I doubt it

 

[Nankatsu]

Destiny is an amazing franchise, right there with you OP.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

When it rains, it pours.

Helldivers 2 is pissing off its community,
Destiny is dying,
Concord is dead.

Let's see how Fairgame$ and Marathon perform.... but shit is not looking pretty

 

[MiguelItUp]

That's true. But it's like they neglected the fact that people can play a number of similar games for free that actually have players. I really don't know what they were thinking. It all feels like it was a complete waste.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

When it rains, it pours.

Helldivers 2 is pissing off its community,
Destiny is dying,
Concord is dead.

Let's see how Fairgame$ and Marathon perform.... but shit is not looking pretty

You forget that when Delta Force gets released it will shit on all these games.

 

[kaizenkko]

All I want to know is: will Sony keep pushing GAAS titles? If yes, Playstation is over.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

You forget that when Delta Force gets released it will shit on all these games.

thats the battlefield like one, right?

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

It's hard to spin off Crucible into its own F2P title and aslo support it by adding new content when most of the PvP team at Bungie is all hands on deck with Marathon.

 

[aerts1js]

Why don’t they just have the concord developer make destiny 2 content (with bungies oversight) and bungie just works on their next project?

and Horizon is a lot more popular than your kind of suggesting even though i sorta agree.

 

[dreamstation]

You forget that when Delta Force gets released it will shit on all these games.

Nah

 

[Ozriel]

At this point, anyone who wants to play Destiny is already playing it. F2P won’t change anything.

 

[Ribi]

*laugh reaction*

 

[PectacularOz]

Nah

Delta Force just looks like temu Battlefield 5.

 

[Dynasty8]

100% agree with you OP, it's such a wasted opportunity. People who don't play Destiny won't understand and will just bash it because Bungie = Bad (their management is ass, I agree).

The truth is, there is not a single game on the market today that offers what Destiny offers. NOT A SINGLE GAME.
People will point to games like the The First Descendant, Warframe and Divison while not knowing just how different Destiny is compared to those games and just how much more it has up its' sleeve. Here's a few of those things:

• Tough challenging 6 player Raids with puzzle based mechanics
• 3 Player dungeons with unique boss fights with unique mechanics, level design and hidden secrets
• Different PvP modes (the other games don't really have PvP) that works in connection with PvE, which include competitive and non-competitive
• Variety of different modes and activities like Gambit, Seasonal quests & the new Onslaught mode that mixes a horde mode with some tower defense elements
• The shared world aspect that allows players to randomly see other players while roaming the map and doing quests, public events, exploring, etc (this belongs in most of the top games though)
• Most importantly it has some of the best (if not best) gunplay, movement, weapons, classes & abilities which all feel unique and fun to play with a ton of customization options for build crafting

There's A LOT more with the legendary campaign, Grandmaster Nightfalls, Holiday Seasonal Events, the unique loot and more. I can go on, but this game scratches an itch that many of these other "live service" just simply can't do or have failed to do.

The problem is Bungie's leadership is made up of fucking idiots. They've botched the new player experience that's made it nearly IMPOSSIBLE for new players to start, removed important story related content to make room for new stuff, invested YEARS of money and developer resources into incubation projects that ended up getting shut down and cancelled and their excessive greed got the better of them (Dungeon Keys, Eververse, unnecessary microtransactions). Such a fucking shame.

 

[Madserb2023]

How about Sony goes back to making great single player games. Should have had Naughty Dog's next game by now but they instead wanted to make more GAAS. They shouldn't have bought Bungie but now that they have, they should get them to make something like Halo for them.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The problem is Bungie's leadership is made up of fucking idiots. They've botched the new player experience that's made it nearly IMPOSSIBLE for new players to start, removed important story related content to make room for new stuff, invested YEARS of money and developer resources into incubation projects that ended up getting shut down and cancelled and their excessive greed got the better of them (Dungeon Keys, Eververse, unnecessary microtransactions). Such a fucking shame.

I only played the Destiny 1 demo, and only played Destiny 2 for maybe an hour dabbling.

Just curious as to why this franchise is tough for new gamers to jump in. Cant a newbie just start a game and level up grinding away progressing on their own? or is there something now which stonewalls noob characters?

 

[StereoVsn]

100% agree with you OP, it's such a wasted opportunity. People who don't play Destiny won't understand and will just bash it because Bungie = Bad (their management is ass, I agree).

The truth is, there is not a single game on the market today that offers what Destiny offers. NOT A SINGLE GAME.
People will point to games like the The First Descendant, Warframe and Divison while not knowing just how different Destiny is compared to those games and just how much more it has up its' sleeve. Here's a few of those things:

• Tough challenging 6 player Raids with puzzle based mechanics
• 3 Player dungeons with unique boss fights with unique mechanics, level design and hidden secrets
• Different PvP modes (the other games don't really have PvP) that works in connection with PvE, which include competitive and non-competitive
• Variety of different modes and activities like Gambit, Seasonal quests & the new Onslaught mode that mixes a horde mode with some tower defense elements
• The shared world aspect that allows players to randomly see other players while roaming the map and doing quests, public events, exploring, etc (this belongs in most of the top games though)
• Most importantly it has some of the best (if not best) gunplay, movement, weapons, classes & abilities which all feel unique and fun to play with a ton of customization options for build crafting

There's A LOT more with the legendary campaign, Grandmaster Nightfalls, Holiday Seasonal Events, the unique loot and more. I can go on, but this game scratches an itch that many of these other "live service" just simply can't do or have failed to do.

The problem is Bungie's leadership is made up of fucking idiots. They've botched the new player experience that's made it nearly IMPOSSIBLE for new players to start, removed important story related content to make room for new stuff, invested YEARS of money and developer resources into incubation projects that ended up getting shut down and cancelled and their excessive greed got the better of them (Dungeon Keys, Eververse, unnecessary microtransactions). Such a fucking shame.

Destiny 2 is actively hostile to new players now. So much stuff has been scrapped that following or understanding the current storyline or meta is impossible for newbies.

I am baffled by their decision to cancel the new game frankly as Destiny 2 numbers will keep going down and down.

 

[diffusionx]

It’s so hard for new players and you can’t escape that. New players would be at such a massive disadvantage that they wouldn’t even join in and now you are back to where you started except now you have to maintain two games instead of one.

 

[Dynasty8]

I only played the Destiny 1 demo, and only played Destiny 2 for maybe an hour dabbling.

Just curious as to why this franchise is tough for new gamers to jump in. Cant a newbie just start a game and level up grinding away progressing on their own? or is there something now which stonewalls noob characters?

What @ StereoVsn said right above.

They had to take out the vanilla campaign to make room for the new stuff. They never anticipated Destiny 2 to run for 7 years with expansions every year. So unfortunately it became a "you had to be there" kind of game for many.

You can still start a new character and get into it, but it's basically like getting thrown into the third season of a TV show instead of starting from the beginning. You don't really know who the characters are, the enemy factions, and more.

 

[LegendOfKage]

I only played the Destiny 1 demo, and only played Destiny 2 for maybe an hour dabbling.

Just curious as to why this franchise is tough for new gamers to jump in. Cant a newbie just start a game and level up grinding away progressing on their own? or is there something now which stonewalls noob characters?

Up until recently, Destiny 2 required you to keep paying for DLC expansions, or you would be left behind. Generally speaking, at least some weapons would have to be "better" in some ways for each expansion, so you would be at a disadvantage if you didn't keep up. And even if you paid for the expansions, Bungie also sold seasonal content and access to additional PVE content separately. It was overly confusing, and required people to keep paying.

There's also a concerning "rich just get richer" element to PVP and harder PVE content for free to play players, where some of the best weapons in the game are locked behind paid content, the highly competitive Trials mode that requires multiple PVP wins, and six player raids that require a great deal of organization and teamwork. So people who have played the game the most, and who are the most skilled at playing highly competitive and challenging content often also had the best weapons. Not really good game design for a "free" game.

This is why I think reworking crucible to be a genuinely free to play experience would be a great opportunity for Sony, and it would also likely create interest in people purchasing access to all other existing content for a single low price. I think that, along with continued cosmetic DLC, would be the best path going forward.

It’s so hard for new players and you can’t escape that. New players would be at such a massive disadvantage that they wouldn’t even join in and now you are back to where you started except now you have to maintain two games instead of one.

Then remove the disadvantage. Take every good to great PVP weapon in the game that can only be obtained through Raids and Trials, and create a separate cosmetically different equivlent that you can earn by playing crucible. Make it a true stand alone game. And they wouldn't be maintaining two games, just two launchers that focus on different types of content. But ultimately, it would still be the same content that Destiny 2 players have always played. It would just be packaged in a way that's finally friendly to new and free to play players, and doesn't put them at a disadvantage.

 

[ProtoByte]

Sony is not different from Microsoft about making stupid decisions. I guess this is the western mentality plain and simple.

Lmao, the western mentality.

How was the Japanese scene (which can be the only alternative) doing throughout the PS3-PS4 gens? How are most of them doing now, even?

 

[AmuroChan]

Destiny is great, but it's at the end of its lifecycle and the barrier of entry is just too high now for newbies. GaaS is inherently a massively risky proposition for any publisher. For every one that succeeds, you will have ten that fails. I don't necessarily mind Sony dipping their toes in that space as long as their flagship studios are still working on single player games. If Firewalk and Haven get shut down because their games failed, that's too bad but they're also not Sony studios that anyone actually cares about.

 

[cash_longfellow]

Destiny 2 is garbage bro. Say what you will.

 

[M1chl]

Destiny is a great game, for like an hour, then you pretty much played it all. Super boring games. Not the mention Destiny 2 at least had ton of Destiny 1 repackaged content

 

[Codes 208]

Im pretty sure destiny 2 is doing fine on its own as-is

 

[Physiognomonics]

How about Sony goes back to making great single player games. Should have had Naughty Dog's next game by now but they instead wanted to make more GAAS. They shouldn't have bought Bungie but now that they have, they should get them to make something like Halo for them.

This. GAAS (and woke games but that's another problem on its own) was a mistake and they should do what they were doing very successfully during PS2, PS3 and PS4 era. Why change a winning formula? I'll never understand it.

 

[LegendOfKage]

Destiny is a great game, for like an hour, then you pretty much played it all. Super boring games.

Which co-op shooters would you recommend instead for better variety and gameplay?

 

[Joel Was Right]

When it rains, it pours.

Helldivers 2 is pissing off its community,
Destiny is dying,
Concord is dead.

Let's see how Fairgame$ and Marathon perform.... but shit is not looking pretty

I stopped playing Helldivers 2 when they nerfed the Berserker. Absolutely killed the game for me.

 

[Bernardougf]

When it rains, it pours.

Helldivers 2 is pissing off its community,
Destiny is dying,
Concord is dead.

Let's see how Fairgame$ and Marathon perform.... but shit is not looking pretty

Whats the problem with helldivers 2 ?

 

[Heart_Attack]

Good thread.

 

[Saber]

Destiny should be their bread and butter when they bought Bungie. If their strategy was entering GaaS, investing on Bungie to do a solid sequel of Destiny(Destiny 3 if you will), and continue the trend from there would be a smart move. Even if the game itself doesn't hit as hard, it carries the brand name which carries confidence for the players to at least dive in so the devs could tune and improve on from there. Thats what I think they would do.

But nah, they went full retard and went to GaaS with their stupid social bullshit philosofy from recent sp games, clearly thinking its super easy to enter the GaaS market. I honestly think they deserve all the fail and deserve to lose huge amounts of money so this can be a life lesson for them. Don't enter a market smelling your own asses.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Destiny should be their bread and butter when they bought Bungie. If their strategy was entering GaaS, investing on Bungie to do a solid sequel of Destiny(Destiny 3 if you will), and continue the trend from there would be a smart move. Even if the game itself doesn't hit as hard, it carries the brand name which carries confidence for the players to at least dive in so the devs could tune and improve on from there. Thats what I think they would do.

But nah, they went full retard and went to GaaS with their stupid social bullshit philosofy from recent sp games, clearly thinking its super easy to enter the GaaS market. I honestly think they deserve all the fail and deserve to lose huge amounts of money so this can be a life lesson for them. Don't enter a market smelling your own asses.

Helldivers 2 made them $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Concord failing doesn't come close to countering that.

 

[Saber]

Helldivers 2 made them $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Concord failing doesn't come close to countering that.

Thats not how it works. A sucessfull GaaS doesn't save another one from failing. GaaS tends to be very high risk and high reward. Lack of appeal in conjuction with stupid decisions will be the death of them. Would be better if Sony leave GaaS departament for Bungie to keep Destiny as their GaaS.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Thats not how it works. A sucessfull GaaS doesn't save another one from failing. GaaS tends to be very high risk and high reward. Would be better if Sony leave GaaS departament for Bungie to keep Destiny as their GaaS.

Actually, it is how this works.

Sony invests in 12 GaaS games and hopes 3 of them are successful and make up for the failures of the others, and they double down on those 3 properties and try and make them annualized businesses. Maybe they won't be successful, but that is exactly the strategy they are pursuing.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Whats the problem with helldivers 2 ?

I think they are nerfing everything and the latest update was not well recived

 

[Saber]

Actually, it is how this works.

Sony invests in 12 GaaS games and hopes 3 of them are successful and make up for the failures of the others, and they double down on those 3 properties and try and make them annualized businesses. Maybe they won't be successful, but that is exactly the strategy they are pursuing.

Its not. Keep pretending you're reading.
GaaS is very high risk because you lose way too much money if fails, it's a betting move. Hitting with a single one(Helldivers) means nothing. You have to keep the momentum, thats how GaaS works.
Making 12 GaaS only to hitting 3 is a pretty dumb move, if Sony is having the same thinking as you then they will lose absurds amount of money and fail miserably. Only an idiot would move like that without a strategy.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Actually, it is how this works.

Sony invests in 12 GaaS games and hopes 3 of them are successful and make up for the failures of the others, and they double down on those 3 properties and try and make them annualized businesses. Maybe they won't be successful, but that is exactly the strategy they are pursuing.

If that's how it works, they better release 5 more Helldivers because with the money theyve lost in various cancelled GAAS, Concord and Bungie buyout where $1.2B of the price went to employee retention bonuses and not part of the brand/asset value, Sony is down big. They even gutted 300-400 employees already too across two layoffs in less than a year. And since Bungue has dropped like a rock since they bought it, their value is is even lower in 2024.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

If that's how it works, they better release 5 more Helldivers because with the money theyve lost in various cancelled GAAS, Concord and Bungie buyout where $1.2B of the price went to employee retention bonuses and not part of the brand/asset value, Sony is down big. And since Bungue has dropped like a rock since they bought it, their value is is even lower in 2024.

Sony didn’t pay out a large portion of those retention bonuses when they laid off nearly half the firm

You’re conflating different things though, Bungie is outside of their 12 GaaS titles and their own entity. Sure if they were to sell Bungie they’d lose money on that acquisition but they have long term plans for the studio.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Its not. Keep pretending you're reading.
GaaS is very high risk because you lose way too much money, it's a betting move. Hitting with Helldivers means nothing, you have to keep the momentum, thats how GaaS works.
Making 12 GaaS only to hitting 3 is a pretty dumb move, if Sony is having the same thinking as you then they will lose absurds amount of money. Only an idiot would move like that without a strategy.

GaaS is the VC model

Buy 100 companies and a handful become successful while the rest fail, and the fund still does really well

 

[clarky]

Destiny 2's PVP is stale as fuck and has been for quite some time.

 

[Saber]

GaaS is the VC model

Buy 100 companies and a handful become successful while the rest fail, and the fund still does really well

You forgot the part where you need knowledge of market you're dealing with. Again, this looks like what a stupid person would do, burn money without knowing what you're doing. Just like MS do, the only difference is that MS has an abundant amount of resources.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

You forgot the part where you need knowledge of market you're dealing with. Again, this looks like what a stupid person would do, burn money without knowing what you're doing. Just like MS do, the only difference is that MS has an abundant amount of resources.

Well so far Helldivers has made up for their other failures

Sony is just the parent company, some of these studios know what they’re doing

 

[Saber]

Well so far Helldivers has made up for their other failures

Sony is just the parent company, some of these studios know what they’re doing

Thats not how it works. A single GaaS does not carry the failures of anothers. "Some of these studios know what they're doing", I think Concord is clouding your thinking.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Thats not how it works. A single GaaS does not carry the failures of anothers. "Some of these studios know what they're doing", I think Concord is clouding your thinking.

Yes, it quite literally can financially

I think comcord’s singular failure has clouded your thinking. Helldivers 2 shows you’re wrong

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Well so far Helldivers has made up for their other failures

Sony is just the parent company, some of these studios know what they’re doing

Not really. The costs of cancelled games, Firewalk buyout and failing Concord, and Bungie costs are way more than whatever profits H2 brought in. Bungie retention costs alone are already a big hole.

New Revelations About ‘Destiny 2’ Declines, Bungie Layoffs And Final Shape As Make Or Break

There's new information about the recent Bungie layoffs and the health of Destiny 2 headed into The Final Shape next year.

www.forbes.com

• The expensive new building was a separate project that likely would not have saved jobs given the context of when that was drafted and when work started. Similarly, the $1.2 billion in employee retention from Sony was spent long ago, often on buying out employees’ Bungie shares which then went to Sony. There’s nothing left in that pot to avoid layoffs, which wasn’t what it was meant for this late in the transition.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Not really. The costs of cancelled games, Firewalk buyout and failing Concord, and Bungie costs are way more than whatever profits H2 brought in. Bungie retention costs alone are already a big hole.

New Revelations About ‘Destiny 2’ Declines, Bungie Layoffs And Final Shape As Make Or Break

There's new information about the recent Bungie layoffs and the health of Destiny 2 headed into The Final Shape next year.

www.forbes.com

• The expensive new building was a separate project that likely would not have saved jobs given the context of when that was drafted and when work started. Similarly, the $1.2 billion in employee retention from Sony was spent long ago, often on buying out employees’ Bungie shares which then went to Sony. There’s nothing left in that pot to avoid layoffs, which wasn’t what it was meant for this late in the transition.

Acquisition costs are not part of the calculus, those studios are still in operation

Helldivers 2 made in ver $400M net. The concord bomb and whatever cancelled projects you’re referring to very likely fall under that number

 

[clarky]

Yes, it quite literally can financially

I think comcord’s singular failure has clouded your thinking. Helldivers 2 shows you’re wrong

What are the projects from Sony as part of their GAAS push have been cancelled or bombed?

Concord, the Bungie game and ND's last of us project? That it so far? I can see the profit from Helldivers covering those easily. The latter 2 never entered full production, so cost must be low