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[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Impossible. Forza Horizon 5 taught me that Mexico is a paradise.

It's a paradise... Just remove the idiots like Enrique Alfaro from my country.

 

[jason10mm]

They would walk them to the gallows, and then the next day they would get gunned down because they followed the traditional rule of law.

Places with poverty, desperate youth, and little money are not gonna flip by modern western democratic ideals. You are not gonna elevate the living standards of a nation by hope and decades of charity when people have nowhere to turn.

This is an unlivable situation, there is too much suffering.

The youth has to fear the government more than the cartels.

Then what solution do you propose? Total annihilation of everyone in the area? Complete capitulation and evacuation of outside influences and isolating the area to contain harm?

If you roll tanks and APCs in, who do they shoot? I suspect the cartels and the local population are indistinguishable (outside of the lavish mansions or whatever). Certianly you can target certain aspects of the cartels but eradicating them directly is just gonna fail. They need incentives to go legitimate, cooperate with authorities to ensure safety, and become subject to laws against violence as a means to an end.

Regulated and controlled substances at a reasonable price would really hamper illicit drugs mixed with unknown adulterants and brought in by mules. Consider tobacco. Anyone out there growing their own versus paying for it? Or alcohol. How many folks really bother with moonshine or bootleg liquor? People are lazy, if they can get medical grade oxy at CVS for $5/pill they are not likely to buy it from some back alley dealer for $4/pill that might kill you cause it is cut with fentanyl.

We just, as a society, need to realize that substance USE is part of the human experience and then deal with the ABUSE rather than demonizing the entire experience.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The youth has to fear the government more than the cartels.

Disagree. They should not have to fear either.

If the government which is supposed to protect and enforce the laws is failing the people, then the people need to do what citizens have done through history.

 

[Bragr]

Then what solution do you propose? Total annihilation of everyone in the area? Complete capitulation and evacuation of outside influences and isolating the area to contain harm?

If you roll tanks and APCs in, who do they shoot? I suspect the cartels and the local population are indistinguishable (outside of the lavish mansions or whatever). Certianly you can target certain aspects of the cartels but eradicating them directly is just gonna fail. They need incentives to go legitimate, cooperate with authorities to ensure safety, and become subject to laws against violence as a means to an end.

Regulated and controlled substances at a reasonable price would really hamper illicit drugs mixed with unknown adulterants and brought in by mules. Consider tobacco. Anyone out there growing their own versus paying for it? Or alcohol. How many folks really bother with moonshine or bootleg liquor? People are lazy, if they can get medical grade oxy at CVS for $5/pill they are not likely to buy it from some back alley dealer for $4/pill that might kill you cause it is cut with fentanyl.

We just, as a society, need to realize that substance USE is part of the human experience and then deal with the ABUSE rather than demonizing the entire experience.

No, we need to demonize the experience. The only reason why people do it is because of what they are told. Legalizing and accepting over and over is why we are in this mess to begin with. Western civilization is a sugar-addicted drunk and drugged-up disaster of a population. We should not make it worse.

I don't see your reasoning here at all for regulation concerning Mexico. These guys are far beyond regulation = reduction. That's like reducing the sale of the koran to hurt isis, it's just peanuts.

What I am talking about regarding dictatorship, is not that extreme, but would absolutely be seen as a dictatorship. You need to allow law enforcement to imprison based on suspicion. That is unfair and unjust, but the issue is that you can't judge criminals based on evidence, because too many of them don't have any evidence against them, so you get these absurd situations where you know they are part of the cartel but can't touch them because they are protected by the law. That is an impossible situation, authorities can't be held back by that in times of crisis. Secondly, military leaders and politicians can't be among the civilian population, they need to be in secret bunkers or bases with their families. Leaders can't be under the fear of attack and need to move and act as they do under war. And thirdly, you need intense propaganda, you need to equate the gangs with pedophiles and satanists, disgusting people, and make sure the population views them as evil and want them gone forever. Right for, people are romantizing them. It's wild and backward.

 

[GeekyDad]

I also agree that drug legalization is really the ONLY thing that will curb the human suffering. AFAICT oil companies are not torpedoing each other or seizing drilling platforms through force. Sure there is nefarious shit between pharma companies at times but it isn't crushing generations of the working class (except under high drug prices I suppose).

Anyhoo, legalizing most of the recreational drugs that are not outright toxic (like meth, just isn't any way to make that safe) and providing treatment centers for addicts is probably the one true way. Then corporatization and regulation can stem the violence, improve the lives of the farmers, and ensure purity and dosing which would do a lot of limit deaths in the end user.

Face it, Folks wanna get high. Whether from alcohol, social media, vidja games, gambling, drugs, sex, base jumping, you name it someone has figured out how to commercialize access to it and no amount of laws has ever squashed any of it. Make it legal, transfer it to at least a semi-regulated and above board enterprise, use the revenue through taxation to treat folks, and move on.

Well...unless you count their use of governmental departments to create wars upon sovereign nations, then yeah, they're literally doing that.

 

[Bragr]

Disagree. They should not have to fear either.

If the government which is supposed to protect and enforce the laws is failing the people, then the people need to do what citizens have done through history.

The only way to protect and serve is to stop the youth's terror wave. What exactly is gonna stop them, if not the power of the government?

And most citizens throughout history don't do anything.

 

[jason10mm]

What I am talking about regarding dictatorship, is not that extreme, but would absolutely be seen as a dictatorship. You need to allow law enforcement to imprison based on suspicion. That is unfair and unjust, but the issue is that you can't judge criminals based on evidence, because too many of them don't have any evidence against them, so you get these absurd situations where you know they are part of the cartel but can't touch them because they are protected by the law. That is an impossible situation, authorities can't be held back by that in times of crisis. Secondly, military leaders and politicians can't be among the civilian population, they need to be in secret bunkers or bases with their families. Leaders can't be under the fear of attack and need to move and act as they do under war. And thirdly, you need intense propaganda, you need to equate the gangs with pedophiles and satanists, disgusting people, and make sure the population views them as evil and want them gone forever. Right for, people are romantizing them. It's wild and backward.

What the whaaaaaaaaaat????

Dude, I am about the most pro-thin blue/red/green line authoritarian guy there is but even I don't go that far!

Without due process and just courts the police are just oppressors of the worst kind. Sounds like you basically just want to wipe some counties off the map and start over. Bold strategy, Cotton.

Mexico is a failed state, yeah. But what they need is an internal revolution. Otherwise about all we can do from the outside is strike when the bad elements step too far out of line and try to reduce the income stream and offer an alternative, realizing that "the bad guys" are very likely the only ones we can work with.

 

[Bragr]

What the whaaaaaaaaaat????

Dude, I am about the most pro-thin blue/red/green line authoritarian guy there is but even I don't go that far!

Without due process and just courts the police are just oppressors of the worst kind. Sounds like you basically just want to wipe some counties off the map and start over. Bold strategy, Cotton.

Mexico is a failed state, yeah. But what they need is an internal revolution. Otherwise about all we can do from the outside is strike when the bad elements step too far out of line and try to reduce the income stream and offer an alternative, realizing that "the bad guys" are very likely the only ones we can work with.

The cartels are already oppressors of the worst kind. There is no way forward unless you can remove the bad apples off the street in any way possible no questions asked. There is no good solution to this, it needs to end, right now.

 

[j0hnnix]

The public doesn't have the stomachs for what it takes for a clear and decisive end to the most ardent problems that are being escalated... would take less than a week's time to boot.

Or some US / Mexico Politicians that would be affected.

 

[Tams]

Then what solution do you propose? Total annihilation of everyone in the area? Complete capitulation and evacuation of outside influences and isolating the area to contain harm?

If you roll tanks and APCs in, who do they shoot? I suspect the cartels and the local population are indistinguishable (outside of the lavish mansions or whatever). Certianly you can target certain aspects of the cartels but eradicating them directly is just gonna fail. They need incentives to go legitimate, cooperate with authorities to ensure safety, and become subject to laws against violence as a means to an end.

Regulated and controlled substances at a reasonable price would really hamper illicit drugs mixed with unknown adulterants and brought in by mules. Consider tobacco. Anyone out there growing their own versus paying for it? Or alcohol. How many folks really bother with moonshine or bootleg liquor? People are lazy, if they can get medical grade oxy at CVS for $5/pill they are not likely to buy it from some back alley dealer for $4/pill that might kill you cause it is cut with fentanyl.

We just, as a society, need to realize that substance USE is part of the human experience and then deal with the ABUSE rather than demonizing the entire experience.

You're making assumptions that these cartel members have morals (or at least compatible ones with what most people considered good morals).

Many really do not. They're willing to behead people, ffs. So their death is the only solution.

"Oh, we should give them a chance!" you may bemoan. The lowly members, yes, after punishment for any crimes. The leaders aren't going to be all nice; if you act against them, they will try their best to kill you. And at that point the only long-term solution is to kill them first.

 

[Airbus Jr]

Sicario is legit real life movie after reading these news