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Boston Approves Permit for White Supremacist Rally on Saturday

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N

Nepenthe

Member
Also, can we stop saying they're protesting a lack of free speech? They're advocating for white supremacy and minority/progressive genocide. That's where the hang-up is occurring.
 
F

Ferrio

Banned
excelsiorlef said:
Let's stop fascism by giving faciists police escorts while they express their desire to ethnically cleanse America until it's a white ethnostate.
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Nazis marching and getting punched in the face for doing so is a better alternative than the GOP wielding the power to define what "hate speech" is.
 
E

Epsilon-delta

Banned
riotous said:
Where did I say that?

These people in Boston are not claiming to be Nazis. And even if they were, their underlying platform stlll does not remove their right to assemble.

IF they then incite violence, they can be arrested. IF behind the scenes it can be proven they are planning acts of violence, they CAN be arrested.. and sometimes are.

But unfortuantely vague concepts like "their platform is inherently violent" are NOT how our laws work.

"I will wait"...so much fucking snark in this thread.

And ONE of you address the REALITY that changing these laws ARE a slippery slope. Are you telling me nobody in BLM has been violent? Because they have, and if you go by your train of logic.. because a few people in BLM are inciting violence, the entire group can be barred the rght to assmble. And since our country is ruled by right wing not jobs, and policed by people who are basically white supremecists.. are you saying you are comfortable with giving them the power to label what is and isn't hate speach?
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Real talk: would you be making this same argument if Hillary was President and Congress controlled by the dems?

Or are you just an originalist?
 
F

FunkyMunkey

Banned
ForsakenLotus said:
We can't just make generalized statements and we can't judge an entire group of people guilty of something beforehand. If they deny their right to protest, not only is it in conflict with the Constitution but it also would serve as a rallying cry to those cretins that they aren't being afforded their rights as American citizens. Who knows what would happen then.
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yes, germany banning nazi symbols and gestures turned it into a lawless hellscape. "free speech" must protect all voices including those that scream for a call to arms to genocide certain races of people. raining cats and dogs over there
 
J

jellies_two

Member
Nepenthe said:
Also, can we stop saying they're protesting a lack of free speech? They're advocating for white supremacy and minority/progressive genocide. That's where the hang-up is occurring.
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Well it depends.
If they turn up minus flags and talk about the joys of free speech while a bunch of militia thugs stand mute then they are what they are. However counter protestors will be "I know what you are doing, let me at them". And voila they create a spectacle for trump and his base to feast off. I think that's the idea.
 
C

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Nepenthe said:
Also, can we stop saying they're protesting a lack of free speech? They're advocating for white supremacy and minority/progressive genocide. That's where the hang-up is occurring.
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They just want the free speech to kill all the minorities. What's wrong with having large rallies to incite that? Something something khanstitootian /s
 
M

mike6467

Member
jellies_two said:
I never dreamed anyone would waste a dollar donating but yeah.
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Good call! Yeah, not many regular posters here would, but if you look at the view count of any given thread you can see how how many people are actually around. This guy just doesn't deserve the exposure.
 
V

vatstep

This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
For what it's worth, on Facebook:

Boston Free Speech Rally: 218 Going · 364 Interested

Boston Counter-Protest & Resistance Rally: 8.6K Going · 21K Interested

Numbers would be higher if all of the students were back in the city.
 
N

Nipo

Member
FunkyMunkey said:
yes, germany banning nazi symbols and gestures turned it into a lawless hellscape. "free speech" must protect all voices including those that scream for a call to arms to genocide certain races of people. raining cats and dogs over there
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Do you trust this congress and President to decide what speech should be legal?

The Supreme Court ruled and people don't think it goes far enough to restrict speech.

Here is where Scotus drew the line.




Under the imminent lawless action test, speech is not protected by the First Amendment if the speaker intends to incite a violation of the law that is both imminent and likely. While the precise meaning of "imminent" may be ambiguous in some cases, the court provided later clarification in Hess v. Indiana (1973). In this case, the court found that Hess's words did not fall outside the limits of protected speech, in part, because his speech "amounted to nothing more than advocacy of illegal action at some indefinite future time,"[1] and therefore did not meet the imminence requirement
 
T

TheUntamedLegend

Member
The more nazi torch rallies there are from this point, the more negative attention they, and those they associate with, will get.
Set up a counter protest, by all means.
 
R

riotous

Banned
Epsilon-delta said:
Real talk: would you be making this same argument if Hillary was President and Congress controlled by the dems?

Or are you just an originalist?
Click to expand...

I am not remotely an "originalist"; I believe for instance the 2nd ammendment should go.

I am not as comfortable with changing the 1st ammendment; I have no clue what my feelings would be in a totally different environment in this country where the people of the country unanimously continued to throw their support behind Democrats.

Real talk, are you cabale of answering a single question? Because you guys all just keep ignoring it.. you are comfortable with giving the GOP congress and the DOJ controlled by Donald Trump the right to label groups as not having free speach rights because they can be associated with violence?
 
F

ForsakenLotus

Member
Crossing Eden said:
LITERALLY the SOLE purpose of a fucking white supremacist rally. Come the hell on.


Yea man those nazis are just an entire group of people, there isn't a precedent for what they want or anything.
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Because every single person there is a nazi? Because every single person there specifically want to incitie violence and get into a race war?

I vehemently disagree with every single person who was protesting (re:not including the brave counter protesters) in Charlottesville, but not all of them were Nazi's. Many of them were stupidly protesting the taking down of a monument. Now, what they were protesting is racist, full stop, but they weren't literally there hoping a huge fight would break out.

Besides, a person self identifying as a Nazi, Neo-Nazi, Nazi sympathizer, doesn't automatically mean their goal as an individual is to incite violence. This is why we can't just generalize these protest. We can all agree these people are hateful, horrible people, but we can't assume some idiot 20 something year old ignorantly protesting some vague idea of keeping America white is the same as somebody who is there trying to start a riot.

People are individuals. We have to treat them as such.
 
J

jellies_two

Member
BY the way perhaps patreon and discord can be reminded cleaning house is an ongoing thing?
Based just on the guest speaker list they shouldn't be supporting this rally.
 
T

TyrantII

Member
Guys settle down. We've won sport championships every other year for 15 years (give or take). BPD and the state police know what they're doing. These Nazis will be out numbered 10:1, and carrying weapons in the city is a felony.

We got this shit yo.
 
L

LiK

Member
Counter-protesters already announced they will be there. Let's just hope it'll all be peaceful. I'm staying away.
 
V

Violence Jack

Member
ForsakenLotus said:
You are not coming across as level headed, fam.

So what you want is for somebody who is a bad person to not have the right to protest, right? Should a person who went to prison for armed robbery be disallowed to protest the right to gun ownership? Should a person convicted of tax fraud not be allowed to protest tax reform?

I get that it doesn't get much worse than Nazi's and White Supremacist. But they are people. They have a right to peaceful protest. If we take that right from them, then that part of the constitution then means nothing. It then morphs into a document that protects the rights of people we like and not humans flatly.

It's not even a difficult concept to grasp, fam.
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Let me put my personal take on this.

I'll never forget being 7 years old having my mom walk me to school when a Klan rally was going on. We didn't say anything nor did my mom even look in their direction. That didn't stop a few of them from spitting on us, throwing rocks, issuing threats, and calling us every racist name in the book plus a couple of new ones. When your protest deals with wanting to kill fellow human beings because of their skin color, they cease being people. I wanted to kill them for the things they said they wanted to do to my mom that day. And if I ran into another racist lunatic who told me that I should die or that they want to kill me, I'm not just going to stand by and let them say it.

Giving speeches about wanting to kill and exterminate people isn't free speech, it's a threat and should be treated as such. My hope is that we'll actually make hate speech illegal in this country, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
 
M

Ms.Galaxy

Member
If we continue allowing these terrorists to have their rallies, more violence and death will ensue.

We've seen the slippery slope of leaving the 1st Amendment as is, we have three people dead and dozen injured due to the fascist rally. How many more deaths and injuries must happen before we change it? Meanwhile, we have decades of multiple nations who completely banned hate speech and the hypothetical slippery slope many say would happen, hasn't happen yet.

ForsakenLotus said:
Because every single person there is a nazi? Because every single person there specifically want to incitie violence and get into a race war?

I vehemently disagree with every single person who was protesting (re:not including the brave counter protesters) in Charlottesville, but not all of them were Nazi's. Many of them were stupidly protesting the taking down of a moment. Now, what they were protesting is racist, full stop, but they were literally there hoping a huge fight would break out.

Besides, a person self identifying as a Nazi, Neo-Nazi, Nazi sympathizer, doesn't automatically mean their goal as an individual is to incite violence. This is why we can't just generalize these protest. We can all agree these people are hateful, horrible people, but we can't assume some idiot 20 something year old ignorantly protesting some vague idea of keeping America white is the same as somebody who is there trying to start a riot.

People are individuals. We have to treat them as such.
Click to expand...

Jesus fucking Christ...

No. Just no.
 
U

UpDownLeftRight

Banned
ForsakenLotus said:
Because every single person there is a nazi? Because every single person there specifically want to incitie violence and get into a race war?

I vehemently disagree with every single person who was protesting (re:not including the brave counter protesters) in Charlottesville, but not all of them were Nazi's. Many of them were stupidly protesting the taking down of a monument. Now, what they were protesting is racist, full stop, but they were literally there hoping a huge fight would break out.

Besides, a person self identifying as a Nazi, Neo-Nazi, Nazi sympathizer, doesn't automatically mean their goal as an individual is to incite violence. This is why we can't just generalize these protest. We can all agree these people are hateful, horrible people, but we can't assume some idiot 20 something year old ignorantly protesting some vague idea of keeping America white is the same as somebody who is there trying to start a riot.

People are individuals. We have to treat them as such.
Click to expand...

You think people who side with nazi's deserve anything less than to be deemed a nazi? It's not some different fucking idealogy it's driven by a wish to kill everyone who doesn't look or think like you
 
F

ForsakenLotus

Member
dreams said:
Lmao this is so fucking rich. These people are nazis. Full stop. If that offends you or upsets you, you need to do some soul searching.
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I don't know what point you are trying to make. Nazi's are evil. People that believe in those ideals are evil. I don't need to search my soul to come to those conclusions.
 
F

FinalStageBoss

Banned
ForsakenLotus said:
Because every single person there is a nazi? Because every single person there specifically want to incitie violence and get into a race war?

I vehemently disagree with every single person who was protesting (re:not including the brave counter protesters) in Charlottesville, but not all of them were Nazi's. Many of them were stupidly protesting the taking down of a monument. Now, what they were protesting is racist, full stop, but they weren't literally there hoping a huge fight would break out.

Besides, a person self identifying as a Nazi, Neo-Nazi, Nazi sympathizer, doesn't automatically mean their goal as an individual is to incite violence. This is why we can't just generalize these protest. We can all agree these people are hateful, horrible people, but we can't assume some idiot 20 something year old ignorantly protesting some vague idea of keeping America white is the same as somebody who is there trying to start a riot.

People are individuals. We have to treat them as such.
Click to expand...

Fuck that. Anyone who associates with a Nazi is a piece of fucking garbage.
 
S

Seik

Banned
I'm all for free speech, seriously.

But IDK, wouldn't it be rational to have law against organisations that holds meetings and public rallies built over racism and eliminating people of different skin colors?

Just sayin'.
 
R

rjinaz

Member
ForsakenLotus said:
Because every single person there is a nazi? Because every single person there specifically want to incitie violence and get into a race war?

I vehemently disagree with every single person who was protesting (re:not including the brave counter protesters) in Charlottesville, but not all of them were Nazi's. Many of them were stupidly protesting the taking down of a monument. Now, what they were protesting is racist, full stop, but they weren't literally there hoping a huge fight would break out.

Besides, a person self identifying as a Nazi, Neo-Nazi, Nazi sympathizer, doesn't automatically mean their goal as an individual is to incite violence. This is why we can't just generalize these protest. We can all agree these people are hateful, horrible people, but we can't assume some idiot 20 something year old ignorantly protesting some vague idea of keeping America white is the same as somebody who is there trying to start a riot.

People are individuals. We have to treat them as such.
Click to expand...

You sound a lot like Donald Trump. There were good people there protesting, good people.

I'm not going to argue that they don't have free speech, they do, even if I disagree with hate speech being free speech, not by law, but by principle.

But now you're getting into defending the nazis territory. Maybe stop and think about what you are doing. We get it, they have free speech. You should have stopped there.

Also the ability to say hate speech does not equate to individualism. Hate speech is banned in much of Europe, and guess what, they are still free individuals in the ways that matter the most.
 
D

DrDomVonDoom

Member
Ashodin said:
They sure as fuck don't go away if you talk to them either
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No they don't, but no ones ever had their ass kicked and changed how they felt on the matter.

But the anti protest side I don't know what else to call it has done a better job of giving Nazis a platform. Every time media shows up, every time someone posts another article or some click bait shit, I haven't seen so much advertising for Nazis in my entire life.

Just because you decry them in your posts and news feeds doesn't mean that isn't advertising. There's no such thing as bad publicity.

I know what it's like to get my ass kicked by skinheads in school and called a spic by my employer. Unless you've lived it yourself maybe you would know my point of view. But you don't kick a hornets nest and not expect to get stung.

I have no doubt there's gonna be a huge tragedy before this mess is over and I'd rather it not be a friend of my because they guy next to them punched a nazi in the face.

Do what you think is right but don't be stupid.
 
N

Nipo

Member
Ms.Galaxy said:
If we continue allowing these terrorists to have their rallies, more violence and death will ensue.

We've seen the slippery slope of leaving the 1st Amendment as is, we have three people dead and dozen injured due to the fascist rally. How many more deaths and injuries must happen before we change it? Meanwhile, we have decades of multiple nations who completely banned hate speech and the hypothetical slippery slope many say would happen, hasn't happen yet.




Jesus fucking Christ...

No. Just no.
Click to expand...


A school full of kindergarten children being shot wasn't enough to get them to change the second amendment. Changing the first would take a massive event.
 
C

commedieu

Banned
Seik said:
I'm all for free speech, seriously.

But IDK, wouldn't it be rational to have law against organisations and public rallies built over racism and eliminating people of different skin colors?

Just sayin'.
Click to expand...
Other nations manage to do it. And get by fine.
 
T

the210

Member
People saying that Nazi rally's must inevitably end in violence are not only wrong but they are arguing for a dangerous change in the law. Just because this weekends Rally resulted in horrible violence you cant say they all will. I remember being terrified as a child when the news would announce the KKK were coming to town. At the end of the day nothing happened other then some idiots spewing garbage to other idiots. Let them speak and if they cross the line shut them down. What I don't want is someone like Jeff Sessions using the excuse of someone getting hurt or killed to shut down left leaning protests. I know our side is less likely to engage in violence but you have some unhinged people on the left along with provocateurs.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/19/supreme-court-unanimously-reaffirms-there-is-no-hate-speech-exception-to-the-first-amendment/?utm_term=.4fe9bd9403a2

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-white-first-amendment-slogans-20170608-story.html
 
S

Slayven

Member
ForsakenLotus said:
Because every single person there is a nazi? Because every single person there specifically want to incitie violence and get into a race war?

I vehemently disagree with every single person who was protesting (re:not including the brave counter protesters) in Charlottesville, but not all of them were Nazi's. Many of them were stupidly protesting the taking down of a monument. Now, what they were protesting is racist, full stop, but they weren't literally there hoping a huge fight would break out.

Besides, a person self identifying as a Nazi, Neo-Nazi, Nazi sympathizer, doesn't automatically mean their goal as an individual is to incite violence. This is why we can't just generalize these protest. We can all agree these people are hateful, horrible people, but we can't assume some idiot 20 something year old ignorantly protesting some vague idea of keeping America white is the same as somebody who is there trying to start a riot.

People are individuals. We have to treat them as such.
Click to expand...
#notallnazis

You identify as a Nazi you wish violence on certain people just because they were born. You defense of them is sickening
 
C

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
ForsakenLotus said:
Because every single person there is a nazi? Because every single person there specifically want to incitie violence and get into a race war?
Click to expand...
It's literally being called a white supremacist rally.

I vehemently disagree with every single person who was protesting (re:not including the brave counter protesters) in Charlottesville, but not all of them were Nazi's. Many of them were stupidly protesting the taking down of a moment. Now, what they were protesting is racist, full stop, but they were literally there hoping a huge fight would break out.
Click to expand...
The monument was dedicated to racist. "We're not nazis, we're just protesting alongside nazis." isn't a valid argument.

Besides, a person self identifying as a Nazi, Neo-Nazi, Nazi sympathizer, doesn't automatically mean their goal as an individual is to incite violence.
Click to expand...
Literally what other reason would a person have to identify as anything of those groups?!!!

This is why we can't just generalize these protest. We can all agree these people are hateful, horrible people, but we can't assume some idiot 20 something year old ignorantly protesting some vague idea of keeping America white is the same as somebody who is there trying to start a riot.

People are individuals. We have to treat them as such.
Click to expand...
Like I said above, "We're not nazis, we're just protesting alongside nazis." isn't a valid argument..these isn't some "kids will be kids" nonsense. People are getting killed over this.
 
V

Vicetrailia

Member
ForsakenLotus said:
Because every single person there is a nazi? Because every single person there specifically want to incitie violence and get into a race war?

I vehemently disagree with every single person who was protesting (re:not including the brave counter protesters) in Charlottesville, but not all of them were Nazi's. Many of them were stupidly protesting the taking down of a monument. Now, what they were protesting is racist, full stop, but they weren't literally there hoping a huge fight would break out.

Besides, a person self identifying as a Nazi, Neo-Nazi, Nazi sympathizer, doesn't automatically mean their goal as an individual is to incite violence. This is why we can't just generalize these protest. We can all agree these people are hateful, horrible people, but we can't assume some idiot 20 something year old ignorantly protesting some vague idea of keeping America white is the same as somebody who is there trying to start a riot.

People are individuals. We have to treat them as such.
Click to expand...

You are the company you keep. Keep America white is inciting violence.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
ForsakenLotus said:
You are not coming across as level headed, fam.

So what you want is for somebody who is a bad person to not have the right to protest, right? Should a person who went to prison for armed robbery be disallowed to protest the right to gun ownership? Should a person convicted of tax fraud not be allowed to protest tax reform?

I get that it doesn't get much worse than Nazi's and White Supremacist. But they are people. They have a right to peaceful protest. If we take that right from them, then that part of the constitution then means nothing. It then morphs into a document that protects the rights of people we like and not humans flatly.

It's not even a difficult concept to grasp, fam.
Click to expand...

Maybe instead of singing the praises of the US Constitution because it lets Nazis march freely you should pause and question if that's not maybe a bug instead of a feature
 
R

riotous

Banned
Seik said:
I'm all for free speech, seriously.

But IDK, wouldn't it be rational to have law against organisations that holds meetings and public rallies built over racism and eliminating people of different skin colors?

Just sayin'.
Click to expand...

commedieu said:
Other nations manage to do it. And get by fine.
Click to expand...

We aren't those other nations though.

I completely support the rational application of laws that limit the speach of racists.

But is that really what you think would happen in America? We have huge swaths of our population and people in power that would DEMAND BLM be labeled a racist org, and they'd have the support of most Police forces too. Hell our own president pretty much glorified that very idea, which is why we are all having this conversation.

I have reservations about changing the 1st Ammndment NOT to protect Nazis.. I couldn't fucking care less. I do care about how those laws would be applied to limit the speach of actual groups who are victims of the power structures in this country.
 
V

victreeb3l

Member
ForsakenLotus said:
Because every single person there is a nazi? Because every single person there specifically want to incitie violence and get into a race war?

I vehemently disagree with every single person who was protesting (re:not including the brave counter protesters) in Charlottesville, but not all of them were Nazi's. Many of them were stupidly protesting the taking down of a monument. Now, what they were protesting is racist, full stop, but they weren't literally there hoping a huge fight would break out.

Besides, a person self identifying as a Nazi, Neo-Nazi, Nazi sympathizer, doesn't automatically mean their goal as an individual is to incite violence. This is why we can't just generalize these protest. We can all agree these people are hateful, horrible people, but we can't assume some idiot 20 something year old ignorantly protesting some vague idea of keeping America white is the same as somebody who is there trying to start a riot.

People are individuals. We have to treat them as such.
Click to expand...

🙄🙄🙄

Get the fuck out of here with this bullshit. These people don't deserve any sympathy. I cant believe what im reading.
 
Y

Yoshimitsu126

Member
This is so dumb. It only takes ONE person for shit to get real at the rally this Saturday.

What the fuck are these councils thinking? Is this some sort of fetish of theirs?
 
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