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[Grildon Tundy]

To counter, is it that far fetched that out of the billions of planets that do support life that we may be the only ones with intelligent life? Or that even if there is intelligent life out there that we are by far the most technologically advanced? (At least in our own galaxy)

I think statistically, yes, it is pretty unlikely we're alone at the tip-top. Like one-in-a-billion odds.

Also, something that has always bother d me... do you really think your government (I'm from the UK) is that competent that they could keep this a secret for so.long?

What would disclosure or it slipping out look like? Would it look like what we're seeing now?

and that's not even including military and scientific personnel, contractors, intelligence agencies, space agencies and many others who will have knowledge of this and no-one has said anything until now? Not even ones who are on their death bed knowing no repercussions? And this is supposedly all over the world so ALL these countries and persons and nothing? (Other than 'I've heard from sources' type chatter)

It just all seems a little unbelievable that the governments globally could keep a secret so huge, this isn't one or two people within an organisation who know the truth, there would literally have to be hundreds if not thousands of people in on it.

This has been discussed in this thread already, and there have been people who speak out, and they're discounted.

There was an entire town built, utilizing thousands of contractors, to hide the building of the atomic bomb. Hundreds of people attributed to its design but didn't know what the end goal was. Compartmentalization. I've worked at companies where management has lots of meetings, with underlings none the wiser, to lay off 1/3rd of the staff. On the day of, no one not in the know saw it coming.

From what I can gather from the recent hearings, there is compartmentalization and poor communication between and within organizations. The CEO of a company knows more than the people under them. Probably even less communication between governments. It's my opinion that there is a framework in place that permits this being kept secret, and when it's not, it's discredited.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

Yeah people should realize a lot of this stuff has come out throughout the decades. The difference now is David Grusch is going all in the right way to expose it and kinda forcing their hand.

So do I think they could keep a secret this long? No but that isn't what they did. The secrets came out and they stigmatized it so much that you look crazy if you believe it.

 

[Crayon]

Also, something that has always bother d me... do you really think your government (I'm from the UK) is that competent that they could keep this a secret for so.long? Especially when governments could (mis)use this for their own political gains during times of crisis or conflict? (We couldn't even keep a party during lockdown a secret)

If the stories are true, it hasn't been much of a secret.

 

[midnightAI]

If the stories are true, it hasn't been much of a secret.

Well, it would have been, this is supposed 2nd hand information, but we are talking governments globally keeping this secret, that is my point, too many working parts to keep something so big from everyone especially when we have conflict and infighting every day between governments. Would North Korea keep this secret? Russia? Iraq during the war in the middle east? Leaders in countries that have been ousted from leadership?

I just find all that hard to believe.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

Well, it would have been, this is supposed 2nd hand information, but we are talking governments globally keeping this secret, that is my point, too many working parts to keep something so big from everyone especially when we have conflict and infighting every day between governments. Would North Korea keep this secret? Russia? Iraq during the war in the middle east? Leaders in countries that have been ousted from leadership?

I just find all that hard to believe.

If rumors are true there's been presidents who didn't even know this stuff. The leaks come out but there's no benefit from government figures talking about this. If they have access to world changing technology they want to figure it out first. Talking about that openly doesn't help.

Also there could be other more important reasons to keep it largely a secret. Ontological shock being one of them.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

What political advantage would there be for governments to trade this information with each other?

 

[midnightAI]

What political advantage would there be for governments to trade this information with each other?

Because if secrets are kept of this magnitude and then other governments find out then we could be talking global warfare? That's the biggest worry in that situation, we'd destroy ourselves no need to be wiped out by an extra terrestrial.

That and these things are supposedly all over the globe (still no undeniable proof though, still, as I keep repeating, happy to be proven wrong, well, unless they are hostile then I'd prefer to be right)

 

[Crayon]

Well, it would have been, this is supposed 2nd hand information, but we are talking governments globally keeping this secret, that is my point, too many working parts to keep something so big from everyone especially when we have conflict and infighting every day between governments. Would North Korea keep this secret? Russia? Iraq during the war in the middle east? Leaders in countries that have been ousted from leadership?

I just find all that hard to believe.

There have been people in mil/aerospace positions trying to say something here and there for decades. As there have been military reports like the tic tac episode. Those had to disseminate through traditional press and media though. For whatever reason, drawing any serious attention would draw humiliation and harassment. The difference is that now, we have a much higher tolerance for humiliation and harassment. Congressmen are going for it, and despite seeing all these people humiliate them online, they can finally see the ones who want them to do it, too. I don't think it's been a secret so much as it's been taboo.

 

[midnightAI]

There have been people in mil/aerospace positions trying to say something here and there for decades. As there have been military reports like the tic tac episode. Those had to disseminate through traditional press and media though. For whatever reason, drawing any serious attention would draw humiliation and harassment. The difference is that now, we have a much higher tolerance for humiliation and harassment. Congressmen are going for it, and despite seeing all these people humiliate them online, they can finally see the ones who want them to do it, too. I don't think it's been a secret so much as it's been taboo.

If this was just America I could maybe see it... Maybe, but again, this is supposedly (if true) global, all governments would need to align, do you think that is likely?

 

[AcrosstheSea]

If this was just America I could maybe see it... Maybe, but again, this is supposedly (if true) global, all governments would need to align, do you think that is likely?

I'd put it this way. Do they have much of a choice? If a being of much greater intelligence has arrived they are probably scared shitless about it. Make deals to not reveal anything about it in a public manner and go about their own way trying to reverse engineer craft to at the very least be the global superpower ( whoever achieves it first )

Over time people have come out here and there exposing what's been going on. Again I don't think anyone has done it in the way Grusch is though.

This could all be not true of course but I mean leaks HAVE happened and there's good reason for leaders to not talk about it openly so...none of this seems too odd.

Did anyone see the Bill Nelson NASA thing? Super odd...... They are gonna put out a report regarding aliens in a month. Gonna use sensors.....what? Lol

 

[midnightAI]

I'd put it this way. Do they have much of a choice? If a being of much greater intelligence has arrived they are probably scared shitless about it. Make deals to not reveal anything about it in a public manner and go about their own way trying to reverse engineer craft to at the very least be the global superpower ( whoever achieves it first )

Over time people have come out here and there exposing what's been going on. Again I don't think anyone has done it in the way Grusch is though.

This could all be not true of course but I mean leaks HAVE happened and there's good reason for leaders to not talk about it openly so...none of this seems too odd.

I'd say if that was the case most likely more people would be talking about it not less, people are more likely to talk about it to friends and family if they are scared (I would anyway)

Most if not all evidence so far is flaky at best, sure, some are unexplained admittedly, but there is no smoking gun after supposed millions of sightings (admittedly a vast amount of those are hoaxes anyway). It's all very well people saying evidence is there and people just deny it but with this amount of sightings surely there is something that is undeniable? There are tens of thousands (guestimate) of telescopes pointing at the sky every night by amateur photographers and yet.... nothing. There are public agencies watching the night sky looking for extra terrestrial life and still, nothing. We have HD cameras everywhere and yet every time there is footage that could potentially be real it's somehow shot on a potato.

Is it so hard to provide irrefutable evidence when so many eyes (and ears) are in the sky?

(I almost feel I have to add this every time, but I welcome being proven wrong but so far there is a nothing that convinces me and I love talking about life, the universe and everything)

 

[AcrosstheSea]

 

[AcrosstheSea]

I'd say if that was the case most likely more people would be talking about it not less, people are more likely to talk about it to friends and family if they are scared (I would anyway)

Most if not all evidence so far is flaky at best, sure, some are unexplained admittedly, but there is no smoking gun after supposed millions of sightings (admittedly a vast amount of those are hoaxes anyway). It's all very well people saying evidence is there and people just deny it but with this amount of sightings surely there is something that is undeniable? There are tens of thousands (guestimate) of telescopes pointing at the sky every night by amateur photographers and yet.... nothing. There are public agencies watching the night sky looking for extra terrestrial life and still, nothing. We have HD cameras everywhere and yet every time there is footage that could potentially be real it's somehow shot on a potato.

Is it so hard to provide irrefutable evidence when so many eyes (and ears) are in the sky?

(I almost feel I have to add this every time, but I welcome being proven wrong but so far there is a nothing that convinces me and I love talking about life, the universe and everything)

Well that's the thing. When you have a decades long cover up ( assuming it's true ).

You don't know how deep it goes. Space programs like NASA could be in on it too. I think the reality is.....

Yeah it's all confusing, suspicious, and there's a lot of questions. That's why this needs to play out and be investigated. Lets dig in and find the truth.

 

[EddieVanHelgen]

 

[Romulus]

This Grusch guy.

As someone who served in the military, there is certain type that really buys into their job, title, and their rank. They're extremely proud and won't do anything to tarnish it.

Grusch fits that to-the-letter guy. Being an Intel officer is not easy thing to begin with.

The idea that he wants clout and is name dropping and location dropping seems absolutely ridiculous. He could have easily avoided congress hearing and wrote a book and got Corbell and the UFO wacko community behind him because of his military position. But he didn't. Dude went public and put himself out there.

The alone is huge to me and that fact that his testimony aligns with weird shit other commanding officers are talking about even furthers that.

 

[midnightAI]

I think statistically, yes, it is pretty unlikely we're alone at the tip-top. Like one-in-a-billion odds.

But seriously, the fact life exists on earth is so ridiculously small (it took billions of years just to miraculously evolve from single celled organisms), and then we happen to evolve into what we are (massive amount of factors in that alone, including the wiping out of dinosaurs around 66 million years ago to make mammals the dominant species due to a (likely) asteroid strike, survival of the fittest is a thing, we got lucky). So life on earth is miraculous in and of itself, a fluke really (well, lots and lots of flukes along the way).

Life in general has only a finite time to be created and evolve before the planet itself can no longer sustain life before its sun goes supernova, in terms of the Universe its a small window of opportunity. Anyway, life somewhere has to be the most evolved, why not us?

(I'm not saying I necessarily agree that we are the most evolved by the way, but it is certainly a possibility)

 

[Grildon Tundy]

But seriously, the fact life exists on earth is so ridiculously small (it took billions of years just to miraculously evolve from single celled organisms), and then we happen to evolve into what we are (massive amount of factors in that alone, including the wiping out of dinosaurs around 66 million years ago to make mammals the dominant species due to a (likely) asteroid strike, survival of the fittest is a thing, we got lucky). So life on earth is miraculous in and of itself, a fluke really (well, lots and lots of flukes along the way).

Life in general has only a finite time to be created and evolve before the planet itself can no longer sustain life before its sun goes supernova, in terms of the Universe its a small window of opportunity. Anyway, life somewhere has to be the most evolved, why not us?

(I'm not saying I necessarily agree that we are the most evolved by the way, but it is certainly a possibility)

Haha I hear you, and really, it's unknowable until it's not. Both of us are operating on assumptions, and there isn't really a way of knowing either way how likely life is because we only have ONE contemporary life-positive data point (Earth) so far.

 

[Romulus]

But seriously, the fact life exists on earth is so ridiculously small (it took billions of years just to miraculously evolve from single celled organisms), and then we happen to evolve into what we are (massive amount of factors in that alone, including the wiping out of dinosaurs around 66 million years ago to make mammals the dominant species due to a (likely) asteroid strike, survival of the fittest is a thing, we got lucky). So life on earth is miraculous in and of itself, a fluke really (well, lots and lots of flukes along the way).

Life in general has only a finite time to be created and evolve before the planet itself can no longer sustain life before its sun goes supernova, in terms of the Universe its a small window of opportunity. Anyway, life somewhere has to be the most evolved, why not us?

(I'm not saying I necessarily agree that we are the most evolved by the way, but it is certainly a possibility)

The fact that the only planet we can examine with extreme detail has had several different eras of complex life is pretty interesting.

Mars is second closest option and it looks like life was there too. So potentially 2/2 in terms of planets we can really put a magnifying glass on.

 

[midnightAI]

The fact that the only planet we can examine with extreme detail has had several different eras of complex life is pretty interesting.

Mars is second closest option and it looks like life was there too. So potentially 2/2 in terms of planets we can really put a magnifying glass on.

I dont think there has ever been proof of life on Mars? not even single celled organisms (I could be wrong on that but pretty certain we havent found anything... yet)

 

[Looneyiscrazy]

They are out there watching us for some reason, what that reason is who knows.

 

[Romulus]

I dont think there has ever been proof of life on Mars? not even single celled organisms (I could be wrong on that but pretty certain we havent found anything... yet)

NASA may have finally discovered life on Mars

This marks the first sample of the Mars Sample Return campaign being conducted by NASA and the European Space Agency

www.earth.com

It's not a done deal but very promising.

Sort of interesting that Earth has harbored all these different eras of life from Dinosaurs to us, and our closest neighbor has a good chance as well.

 

[midnightAI]

They are out there watching us for some reason, what that reason is who knows.

Probably watching us is like watching a comedy, so probably laughing their, err, heads off.

 

[SirKicksalot]

The vast majority of cameras are fucking shit and are usually pointing at women and porches or some warehouse corner. The other night I saw a satellite and my Sony A7 IV was useless.
Now that smartphone cameras are AI enhanced they will turn the rare UFO into a plastic bag or a flying squirrel.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

Sorry for name-dropping Eric Weinstein so much but he was told they are down sampling it the footage of these craft. They have high quality imagery. Hell Matt Gaetz said as much at the hearing when he saw the photograph of one which he described is not of this world.

Eric Weinstein even said they were thinking about having him see the craft for himself. Apparently they wanted to bring more great minds in to eventually explain that stuff to the world. Can kept getting kicked.... Seems they keep going back and forth on whether to reveal what they know or keep it locked down.

 

[Raonak]

What doesn't really make sense about this whole story is the crashes.

Why are they crashing?

If it's just random, then these crash sites should be all over the world. It would be borderline impossible for governments to track and retrieve every single one of them before they're taken by the public. Specifically populated places like Africa and India where there is very little government oversight. Random people should have stumbled upon these crash sites. And they would have absolutely made their way into the internet.

Or is it the military shooting them down? Which seems unlikely as apparently their capabilities far exceed our own. There's no real reason for them to be able to get shot down, unless they're wanting to get shot down?

Has there even been any indication of them being hostile in the first place?

 

[midnightAI]

What doesn't really make sense about this whole story is the crashes.

Why are they crashing?

If it's just random, then these crash sites should be all over the world. It would be borderline impossible for governments to track and retrieve every single one of them before they're taken by the public. Specifically populated places like Africa and India where there is very little government oversight. Random people should have stumbled upon these crash sites. And they would have absolutely made their way into the internet.

Or is it the military shooting them down? Which seems unlikely as apparently their capabilities far exceed our own. There's no real reason for them to be able to get shot down, unless they're wanting to get shot down?

Has there even been any indication of them being hostile in the first place?

And as I have mentioned before, if we do shoot them down we would be risking an interstellar war with a race far beyond our technology and comprehension, pretty dumb if that's the case.

'Once again the LAPD are asking Los Angelenos not to fire their guns at the visitor spacecraft, you may inadvertently start an interstellar war'

 

[Romulus]

What doesn't really make sense about this whole story is the crashes.

Why are they crashing?

If it's just random, then these crash sites should be all over the world. It would be borderline impossible for governments to track and retrieve every single one of them before they're taken by the public. Specifically populated places like Africa and India where there is very little government oversight. Random people should have stumbled upon these crash sites. And they would have absolutely made their way into the internet.

Or is it the military shooting them down? Which seems unlikely as apparently their capabilities far exceed our own. There's no real reason for them to be able to get shot down, unless they're wanting to get shot down?

Has there even been any indication of them being hostile in the first place?

I don't get the idea that if they're crashing, they have to be crashing everywhere. It could be that its not happened much at all.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

What doesn't really make sense about this whole story is the crashes.

Why are they crashing?

If it's just random, then these crash sites should be all over the world. It would be borderline impossible for governments to track and retrieve every single one of them before they're taken by the public. Specifically populated places like Africa and India where there is very little government oversight. Random people should have stumbled upon these crash sites. And they would have absolutely made their way into the internet.

Or is it the military shooting them down? Which seems unlikely as apparently their capabilities far exceed our own. There's no real reason for them to be able to get shot down, unless they're wanting to get shot down?

Has there even been any indication of them being hostile in the first place?

They do seem to crash all over but I don't think there's as many crashes as people think. This is a decades long cover up. First crash sighting was in 1933 in Italy and the US ended up getting a hold of that one. There's the varginha case that had witnesses. I think the military came for that one too.

The US is rumored to have around 12ish. 12 over 80 years isn't much if true.

As far as hostile I think most comments I've seen ( down the alien grapevine ) is they aren't benevolent but aren't necessarily malevolent either. They have their own things they are trying to do the running rumor is they don't like nukes and that's why they monitor nuke sites all over the world..

Obviously much of this is just rumors and speculation but I do see this stuff a lot and it's worth pondering.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

One of my favorite things down the alien grapevine is this map.

i don't even care if it's fake or not. Its just sick and cool to think about. I love the idea that a lot of stuff is near the Bermuda triangle. It'd explain a lot haha

 

[EviLore]

You don't know how deep it goes. Space programs like NASA could be in on it too. I think the reality is.....

It's a grand conspiracy on an unprecedented scale with hundreds of thousands of people actively covering it up, and only a handful of con artists -- in between lying farcically about everything else -- are telling the truth about this.

Or it's not.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

It's a grand conspiracy on an unprecedented scale with hundreds of thousands of people actively covering it up, and only a handful of con artists -- in between lying farcically about everything else -- are telling the truth about this.

Or it's not.

Yeah, I'm skeptical of the government and various agencies. They have lied in the past before about many things. I never implied everyone within the government is involved nor with NASA and I didn't even say they are definitely involved....I was saying who knows who could be IF THIS WERE TRUE.

 

[SF Kosmo]

It's a grand conspiracy on an unprecedented scale with hundreds of thousands of people actively covering it up, and only a handful of con artists -- in between lying farcically about everything else -- are telling the truth about this.

Or it's not.

Why don't we find out?

Homey shows up in Congress under oath saying "I can give you the exact location of alien craft." That's probably worth looking into, don't you think?

I understand skepticism perfectly, but skepticism isn't dismissing evidence before you even get a chance to see it.

 

[Raonak]

If the US has found 10 UFOs over 100 years, most of them being in the US soil (which is 6% of Earth's landmass), then that just furthers the idea that there should be more all over the world.

Its just statistically impossible that the US has managed to grab every single UFO that's crashed all over the world before anyone else got their hands on it. Especially in non US territory.

And assuming they haven't just come here, then there should be a bunch of them in the fossil record and there should be some at the bottom of the ocean too


There's just something off about these crash stories.

 

[sono]

hundreds of thousands of people actively covering it up

The American military have hard evidence of things flying in their airspace which are unidentified and having flight characteristics that are alarming. This is now admitted by The White House, so I am taking that as factual at this point.

The doubt is do some American government employees have crashed or otherwise recovered material as stated by Grusch and quite a few others but are withholding that knowledge. I may have missed your point but if that is also true how many would need to be involved covering that aspect up?

What seems to be happening now is that more and more leaks are occurring on that cover up. I totally accept that the ontological shock is large and likely part of the reason why it is just frankly easier to deny and discredit these stories

 

[Romulus]

It's a grand conspiracy on an unprecedented scale with hundreds of thousands of people actively covering it up, and only a handful of con artists -- in between lying farcically about everything else -- are telling the truth about this.

Or it's not.

I don't understand this at all, Fravor, Grusch, and Graves are con artists?

 

[Romulus]

If the US has found 10 UFOs over 100 years, most of them being in the US soil (which is 6% of Earth's landmass), then that just furthers the idea that there should be more all over the world.

Its just statistically impossible that the US has managed to grab every single UFO that's crashed all over the world before anyone else got their hands on it. Especially in non US territory.

And assuming they haven't just come here, then there should be a bunch of them in the fossil record and there should be some at the bottom of the ocean too


There's just something off about these crash stories.

Grusch implied some of them were basically strongarmed by the US, but that other superpowers are doing the same. Essentially a race to get to them first. But again, I don't believe there are many at all.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

Grusch implied some of them were basically strongarmed by the US, but that other superpowers are doing the same. Essentially a race to get to them first. But again, I don't believe there are many at all.

Yeah that was what I was implying as well.

Watch the Why files episode on crop circles. Shit gets weird sometimes over things you don't think are important.

 

[EviLore]

Why don't we find out?

Homey shows up in Congress under oath saying "I can give you the exact location of alien craft." That's probably worth looking into, don't you think?

I understand skepticism perfectly, but skepticism isn't dismissing evidence before you even get a chance to see it.

Mm. Will direct you to this post:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/exploration-of-probability-of-a-uap-seen-on-earth-originating-from-another-planet.1659281/#post-268233883

A few people making extraordinary claims isn't evidence of extraordinary events. A lot of people making extraordinary claims isn't evidence of extraordinary events.

People believe a lot of things, and claim to see things that aren't there all the time. Eyewitness testimony is extremely fallible to the point of near-uselessness and isn't relied on in courts now that we have modern empirical methods.

You're making the logical leap that because there are extraordinary claims being made by a number of people, we should take it seriously. That's not how skepticism works. Present the evidence first, otherwise there's no reason to take it seriously, in the same way that there's no reason to consider thousands of other fantasies without evidence.

 

[Raonak]

I don't understand this at all, Fravor, Grusch, and Graves are con artists?

Its entirely possible that they are. No less possible than any of this being true.

Like if a search is done at all of these claimed UFO locations and absolutely nothing is found. If no physical evidence of a UFO is ever found...

There's a very good chance that this could all backfire.

Maybe that's the play? Get the government to take these claimed seriously only for them too find that there's absolutely nothing there and make it all look like the boy who cried wolf.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

Mm. Will direct you to this post:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/exploration-of-probability-of-a-uap-seen-on-earth-originating-from-another-planet.1659281/#post-268233883

A few people making extraordinary claims isn't evidence of extraordinary events. A lot of people making extraordinary claims isn't evidence of extraordinary events.

People believe a lot of things, and claim to see things that aren't there all the time. Eyewitness testimony is extremely fallible to the point of near-uselessness and isn't relied on in courts now that we have modern empirical methods.

You're making the logical leap that because there are extraordinary claims being made by a number of people, we should take it seriously. That's not how skepticism works. Present the evidence first, otherwise there's no reason to take it seriously, in the same way that there's no reason to consider thousands of other fantasies without evidence.

The evidence has been presented to the Senate intelligence committee and to the inspector general. Idk why people keep acting like it's just eye witness accounts. It's not. It's not even just first hand eye witnesses, it's locations where they are, documents from the government about programs, it's data that corroborates what these UAPs are doing ( speed, maneuvers, G-force measurements ).

I'm not sure why everyone keeps pretending there's no evidence. You haven't seen it because again this was presented behind closed doors ( classified) which has lead to Schumer wanting to have disclosure happen so we all can know what they know. This was just the first hearing too with more coming and now they are trying to get subpoena power.

Again totally understand being skeptical ALIENS are here because I'm pretty sure we all agree that would be absolute craziness. However, the evidence was provided and that's where the investigation comes into play to prove or disprove it's legitimacy.

 

[midnightAI]

The evidence has been presented to the Senate intelligence committee and to the inspector general. Idk why people keep acting like it's just eye witness accounts. It's not. It's not even just first hand eye witnesses, it's locations where they are, documents from the government about programs, it's data that corroborates what these UAPs are doing ( speed, maneuvers, G-force measurements ).

I'm not sure why everyone keeps pretending there's no evidence. You haven't seen it because again this was presented behind closed doors ( classified) which has lead to Schumer wanting to have disclosure happen so we all can know what they know. This was just the first hearing too with more coming and now they are trying to get subpoena power.

Again totally understand being skeptical ALIENS are here because I'm pretty sure we all agree that would be absolute craziness. However, the evidence was provided and that's where the investigation comes into play to prove or disprove it's legitimacy.

Because that evidence is yet to be verified? Until it is then it's perfectly acceptable to be pessimistic.

 

[EviLore]

The evidence has been presented to the Senate intelligence committee and to the inspector general. Idk why people keep acting like it's just eye witness accounts. It's not. It's not even just first hand eye witnesses, it's locations where they are, documents from the government about programs, it's data that corroborates what these UAPs are doing ( speed, maneuvers, G-force measurements ).

I'm not sure why everyone keeps pretending there's no evidence. You haven't seen it because again this was presented behind closed doors ( classified) which has lead to Schumer wanting to have disclosure happen so we all can know what they know. This was just the first hearing too with more coming and now they are trying to get subpoena power.

Again totally understand being skeptical ALIENS are here because I'm pretty sure we all agree that would be absolute craziness. However, the evidence was provided and that's where the investigation comes into play to prove or disprove it's legitimacy.

When some videos were declassified a while back and the military pushed it as super interesting evidence of UFOs that they couldn't explain, and it was shown all over the news and discussed by generals, it was literally nothing. So no, saying there's more behind closed doors does not move the needle.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

Because that evidence is yet to be verified? Until it is then it's perfectly acceptable to be pessimistic.

I didn't say you can't be pessimistic. I said stop saying there isnt evidence. It's dishonest. He spent 11 hours talking to the Senate intelligence committee just talking about nothing. We know he provided information it's been confirmed time and time again.

Be pessimistic all you want, be skeptical all you want but evidence was still provided. Now let's see if it amounts to anything or not.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Mm. Will direct you to this post:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/exploration-of-probability-of-a-uap-seen-on-earth-originating-from-another-planet.1659281/#post-268233883

A few people making extraordinary claims isn't evidence of extraordinary events. A lot of people making extraordinary claims isn't evidence of extraordinary events.

He isn't asking anyone to take his word on it though. He is offering specifics and documentary evidence, there are just procedural hurdles that need to be sorted out before that happens, so he's asking Congress to help facilitate that.

You don't need to believe him, but the true skeptic would want to examine that evidence first, not to simply handwave away the possibility.

People believe a lot of things, and claim to see things that aren't there all the time. Eyewitness testimony is extremely fallible to the point of near-uselessness and isn't relied on in courts now that we have modern empirical methods.

But that's not at all what Grush's testimony was. He isn't claiming to have any eyewitness account of UFOs or aliens at all, but he is claiming to know details of the government's program investigating these phenomena, including how they are stealing billions from our defense's budget to fund these programs, and the results of what these programs think they have.

That's a very different sort of testimony than "I think I saw something one time." And regardless of the truth of UFOs, it's concerning on its face and worthy of investigation.

Present the evidence first,

That's illegal, man. He can't just share classified documents in an open session. He was there to ask for a closed session in a SCIF specifically so that he can share that evidence.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

When some videos were declassified a while back and the military pushed it as super interesting evidence of UFOs that they couldn't explain, and it was shown all over the news and discussed by generals, it was literally nothing. So no, saying there's more behind closed doors does not move the needle.

Hey, boss. I want to ask what you mean by "literally nothing" here? Is this in reference to the New York Times tictac video? I know it wasn't proven what it actually was (regarding its origin, for example), but my understanding is that it was a thing that was observed and existed in reality. Not trying to be antagonistic or anything like that. Just want to understand your perspective.

 

[EviLore]

Hey, boss. I want to ask what you mean by "literally nothing" here? Is this in reference to the New York Times tictac video? I know it wasn't proven what it actually was (regarding its origin, for example), but my understanding is that it was a thing that was observed and existed in reality. Not trying to be antagonistic or anything like that. Just want to understand your perspective.

Referring to the ~3 videos that were released during Covid.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

Referring to the ~3 videos that were released during Covid.

Ok, gotcha. I don't think I saw those. The tictac saga has been the most convincing for me of...something. The NYT added credibility, given their reputation.

 

[EviLore]

Ok, gotcha. I don't think I saw those. The tictac saga has been the most convincing for me of...something. The NYT added credibility, given their reputation.

I'll take a look when I have the time.

 

[PSYGN]

All I'm saying is that the prohibition was lifted in 1933 and the aliens maybe drunk one too many for their 4 ft frame, hence why we got many supposed wreckages in the 30's - 50's before the space police intervened.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

Hey, boss. I want to ask what you mean by "literally nothing" here? Is this in reference to the New York Times tictac video? I know it wasn't proven what it actually was (regarding its origin, for example), but my understanding is that it was a thing that was observed and existed in reality. Not trying to be antagonistic or anything like that. Just want to understand your perspective.

I'll let the experts who have the flight data captured of these things make the calls on how impressive it is or not and the pilots. Not people like us who have likely zero experience judging a small clip. People can claim they are lying about all of this but to me the infighting of the government tells me there's something going on..

Not directing this at you just saying generally. We are in the dark, that is the whole point of this. They want to bring light to what's been going on that is the whole point of all of this. Hand saving it away as absurd seems weird when the goal is to let us in more regardless of whether the allegations are true or not.

We should ALL want that.