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[MikeM]

These will unfortunately continue so long as the insane have access to tools of death.

RIP. One of those kids could have cured cancer.

 

[StateofMajora]

Yea, its definitely "indoctrination" that killed these kids. Not a bunch of bullets fallen into the hands of someone who should not have them.

Where do you think he got his mental illness? A healthy society?!?

 

[mortal]

It's inherently political because the only way to stop and change these things involves politics. Waving it all away by saying "mental illness" has done absolutely nothing time and time again. It's just more useless thoughts and prayers.

No one is waving anything away by mentioning mental illness.

A person that wakes up one day and murders their family members and then goes off to murder children is not mentally well nor sane. This acknowledges the reality of that playing role.

The fact that there is this dismissive attitude to even discuss mental health is absurd.
You can write as many policies as you want, but that will not magically change the underlying causes, whether they are mental or cultural.
Stricter gun laws have not stopped criminals from acquiring weapons illegally and hurting and murdering people. Some of the states with the strictest gun laws in the USA have some of the worst gun violence and homicide rates.

People have this naive belief that if we just banned all of the guns or and pass more gun laws then it would stop, when in reality that hasn't been the case.
If anything, it makes it only more difficult for the average law-abiding person to be able to properly defend themselves against criminals who do not care about following these laws, essentially making innocent people soft targets.
Why do you think so many of these shooters target unarmed people in places with little to no security? Because they know there won't be much resistance.

 

[StormCell]

The solution is obvious. The same one that worked in other countries. America just does not want to do it. End of discussion.

Where have you ever seen hundreds of millions of guns confiscated from the public?

The toothpaste is out of the tube. That's how this country was founded.

The solution ought to be funding for better security of vulnerable locations like schools and daycares. The fact is that a whole group of armed to the teeth terrorists could walk straight through the front doors of any of these elementary schools, and the school administrators wouldn't even be aware of it until the first shots rang out or someone detonated a bomb. We guard the friggin' airports 100x better than we do any of our schools.

 

[FunkMiller]

I do believe our mental health system needs to improve.

I think another issue maybe that family values here aren't as good as they used to be and especially aren't as good as they are in Europe and other nations where there's more emphasis on family and sticking together.

I'm not saying I know for sure but I really do believe that is an issue with family. The family structure seems to be eroding in the United States and more of these kids are raised by single parents or even married parents who don't seem to give a shit or whatever. A loving family goes a long way.

Sounding like a broken record here… but the US does not have worse issues with broken homes or the family than the UK. But in the UK, it’s hard to get hold of a gun.

 

[Putonahappyface]

This would be a valid argument potentially, if firearms ownership required mandatory training, licensing and test approval before being allowed to have one. Like cars.

As it stands, Billy Bob is just as likely to kill himself/his wife/a nearby tree as he is the attacker.

What about adding a compulsory psychological evaluation to that list?

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

 

[Madonis]

The U.S. could at least have a better system in place both for taking care of mental health issues and for restricting access to guns when it comes to mentally unstable individuals with clear warning signs.

The fact that it doesn't means such tragedies will happen again and again.

 

[Toons]

Because you're choosing to. I could not be any clearer.

You're saying nothing about the real issue.

Ahhhhh.... OK, so now you've given yourself away. I know exactly where you stand and what your thought process is. I was hoping you were a more independent thinker, but I see you just repeat talking points.

Im using my independent thinking to see the double standard you refuse to see. ZERO legislation from when a crazy 20 year old kills elementary schools. TONS of laws being written about a teacher mentioning his spouse.

So don't try and tell me "nothing can be done" or "its a complicated issue". We have ZERO problem fighting "complicated issues". So that's BS. And if you can't see that, that's because you aren't willing to. You become an actual free thinker when you can criticize these liars and their f***ed up priorities.

I was willing to engage productively, but I think we're done here. Have a nice day, dude

You're not willing to engage productively because you're dancing around the issue. It hasn't changed. It won't be different the next time either.

You need to think long and hard about what they are TELLING you is killing our kids and what is ACTUALLY killing them. And then we can work towards solving the problem.

 

[h00ters]

As an Australian, and with a pretty good understanding of the cultural significance of guns in the US, I still just find it baffling that so many people can offer solutions to this problem other than significant gun control reform.

26 years since we introduced gun control down here. 26 years since our last mass shooting.

 

[FunkMiller]

What about adding a compulsory psychological evaluation to that list?

Yep, why not? Seems sensible.

Guns don’t have to be taken away from the vast majority. But there has to be better, stricter and more meaningful controls, to reduce the chances of this type of incident happening.

Cars are licensed. You have to prove you have the capacity, health and skill to own one.

Why not the same for guns?

 

[StormCell]

Sounding like a broken record here… but the US does not have worse issues with broken homes or the family than the UK. But in the UK, it’s hard to get hold of a gun.

That's because there were never many guns in the UK. It's a different culture. Instead, y'all get mad at each other and try to use screw drivers and forks to kill each other.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

The only thing they want to do is take all the guns away so we are defenseless. Everything else is rhetoric to inch towards that.

Yeah, trust the God damn ministry of truth to fix this...

Well they need to make it harder for people to obtain guns in the first place. Make them get your ID, bank details, blood sample and/or piss in a cup, just anything and everything to have you on record and on top of that you have to sit a mandatory mental health exam every 6 months and if someone else uses your firearm to commit murder or any other act of violence, you're liable for the same punishment as the perpetrator.

Seems to me like I could walk into a gun store today and purchase an SMG the same way I would walk into a grocery store for milk. That's fucking crazy.

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

The solution is obvious. The same one that worked in other countries. America just does not want to do it. End of discussion.

 

[Toons]

Where do you think he got his mental illness? A healthy society?!?

Plenty of healthier societies have people with mental illness.

The problem is the people with the mental illnesses are allowed to get their hands on things that allow them to hurt others.

 

[Sybrix]

The fact of the matter is strict gun control works, it significantly reduces these type of horrific events.

So why wouldn’t America bring in strict gun control to stop kids being murdered in this way?

 

[HoodWinked]

This is a bit of a having your cake and eating it situation where people want access to guns but obviously want to prevent the mass shootings.

What's interesting is it seems that gun control support has actually decreased recently where leftists due to their support for violent riots and becoming more associated with black culture which has their own gun culture are also kind of cooling on gun control.

The only direct way of reducing mass shootings is to remove guns, the path of mental illness isn't scalable. The government will never be able to solve for extremely complex issues like that, they can hardly solve the obvious ones.

I live in a liberal area and just to show how insane it is, the very same people that advocate for mental health, then when you try to get homeless off the street and into human health services they scream and obstruct government workers that try to get them off the street.

 

[FunkMiller]

As an Australian, and with a pretty good understanding of the cultural significance of guns in the US, I still just find it baffling that so many people can offer solutions to this problem other than significant gun control reform.

26 years since we introduced gun control down here. 26 years since our last mass shooting.

Yep. Both the UK and Australia stopped having mass shootings once guns were more strictly controlled.

It’s the obvious answer… with real world examples to back it up.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

The solution is obvious. The same one that worked in other countries. America just does not want to do it. End of discussion.

What is the solution?

Genuinely want to know

 

[DragoonKain]

As an Australian, and with a pretty good understanding of the cultural significance of guns in the US, I still just find it baffling that so many people can offer solutions to this problem other than significant gun control reform.

26 years since we introduced gun control down here. 26 years since our last mass shooting.

I think the difference is Australian’s gun control legislation was extreme. 350+ million guns is way harder to control, and also there’s tons of illegal guns in circulation that will never be out of public hands. On top of that, America has a hardcore gun culture, millions, and I don’t throw that number around lightly, would flat out refuse to give up their guns and may even defend it to their deaths. I think America may be too far gone for legislation like Australia, I don’t see how realistically it could even be implemented with the roadblocks I just listed, but I do hope there is some middle ground.

I’m not a gun expert, I’ve never owned one, so I can’t say what that middle ground is. In a perfect world though I’d like a society without guns at all.

 

[Toons]

Growing up as a kid, when you displayed you weren't responsible or didn't have the self control to have something, that thing was taken away from you if you were raised right.

Yet our government says that if you display you weren't responsible or didn't have the self control to have something, it was someone else's fault, or you never had a chance anyway, and nothing needs to change.

 

[StateofMajora]

Well they need to make it harder for people to obtain guns in the first place. Make them get your ID, bank details, blood sample and/or piss in a cup, just anything and everything to have you on record and on top of that you have to sit a mandatory mental health exam every 6 months and if someone else uses your firearm to commit murder or any other act of violence, you're liable for the same punishment as the perpetrator.

Seems to me like I could walk into a gun store today and purchase an SMG the same way I would walk into a grocery store for milk. That's fucking crazy.

That is exactly what I said they want to do ; inch towards taking them away completely.

You have too much faith in this increasingly evil institution. What you just described could be abused horribly.

It's what they do. Create a problem, then pretend to offer a solution while really just grasping for more power.

Please reconsider your views.

 

[FunkMiller]

What is the solution?

Genuinely want to know

Much tighter gun controls across the board. I can still get a gun in the UK or Australia… but I have to rightly jump through many hoops to do so, and prove I am responsible.

It’s just too easy to buy and own a gun in the US. Make it harder… make it more of a process that eliminates those who shouldn’t own them, and mass shootings will reduce significantly.

It worked in other countries. It’d work in America.

I speak as someone who shot clay pigeon for over a decade. I enjoy shooting. I’m no anti-gun nut.

But America has to accept stricter gun controls. Otherwise children will keep dying.

But as stated before… they seem to have accepted this consequence, so all of this is moot.

 

[Madonis]

I’m not a gun expert, I’ve never owned one, so I can’t say what that middle ground is. In a perfect world though I’d like a society without guns at all.

There's a lot of good middle ground solutions.

Problem is, people prefer to do nothing instead. "We've tried nothing and are all out of ideas" indeed.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

No one is waving anything away by mentioning mental illness.

A person that wakes up one day and murders their family members and then goes off to murder children is not mentally well nor sane. This acknowledges the reality of that playing role.

The fact that there is this dismissive attitude to even discuss mental health is absurd.
You can write as many policies as you want, but that will not magically change the underlying causes, whether they are mental or cultural.
Stricter gun laws have not stopped criminals from acquiring weapons illegally and hurting and murdering people. Some of the states with the strictest gun laws in the USA have some of the worst gun violence and homicide rates.

People have this naive belief that if we just banned all of the guns or and pass more gun laws then it would stop, when in reality that hasn't been the case.
If anything, it makes it only more difficult for the average law-abiding person to be able to properly defend themselves against criminals who do not care about following these laws, essentially making innocent people soft targets.
Why do you think so many of these shooters target unarmed people in places with little to no security? Because they know there won't be much resistance.

As I said above, your view on guns is the "more guns the better defence view". The problem with that view is most of the mass killings involve people in innocent circumstances and sometimes kids who wouldnt have a gun anyway. It's not like the shooter today was trying to kick down someone's front door and the victim had time to grab their gun a shoot them back. Often times, the shooter commits suicide or gets gunned down by cops 10 minutes later. So even if a store manager or school principal pulled out their gun to defend everyone, the shooting already started.

Let's not pretend its a video game where if someone pulls out a gun out of the blue and starts shooting, people have regen health, can take a few slugs and shoot back like Dirty Harry.

Most mass shootings arent even crime scenes like bank robberies or an OK Corral shootout or anything like that. So it's not like the usage of the gun is defence. It's on the offence for weirdos who want to kill 20 people at a time before anyone can even react.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

But again… gently… I’d remind you that other countries have people with exactly the same problems, and no mass shootings occur. The problem is staring America in the face, but it’s decided it doesn’t want to tackle it.

Funk, I'm with you, but... saying that other countries have mental health (or other problems) similar to the US is not quite comparing apples to apples.

The United States has:
(1) 330+ million people spread out across 3.1 million square miles. That's almost twice the land size of the entire European Union.
(2) A lot of people with different cultures, different backgrounds, different histories. You can't expect a first-generation immigrant in New York City to have the same mentality as a small rancher in Montana, on a variety of issues. (Including gun control.)

There are other things but I'm trying to keep this post short (ish). So comparing the UK to the US is not quite apples to apples.

Just now that it's an observation, NOT an excuse to not activate stricter gun control laws. Which needs to happen.

You're saying nothing about the real issue.


ZERO legislation from when a crazy 20 year old kills elementary schools. TONS of laws being written about a teacher mentioning his spouse.

I'm gonna disregard the "teacher mentioning his spouse" because it's not just factually incorrect on multiple fronts, but also irrelevant to the immediate discussion.

Now you're getting into "disingenuous" territory. I have now (multiple times) said in this thread that I am for stricter gun control. So, you can say whatever you want about what you think, but please do not speak for me, especially when you're wrong about it.

You can reply if you want, but I'm gonna ignore it. Again, have a good day, dude

 

[mortal]

I’m not blaming an entire country, I didn’t think I had to spell it out that specifically but apparently I do.

Of course it’s not every American, however when you read fucked up shit like this you can’t help but think wtf America?!

I’m also not politicising anything, I haven’t mentioned politics once.

I am humanising it, i don’t live in America, I do love your country when I’ve visited, however I cannot understand how incidents like Sandy Hook and now this recent one brings about zero change to gun control.

Frankly, it’s embarrassing that the USA cannot sort this out.

If you aren't blaming an entire country then maybe don't address an entire country collectively. Otherwise, that's literally what you're doing.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

That is exactly what I said they want to do ; inch towards taking them away completely.

You have too much faith in this increasingly evil institution. What you just described could be abused horribly.

It's what they do. Create a problem, then pretend to offer a solution while really just grasping for more power.

Please reconsider your views.

Having tighter rules for gun owners is giving the institution more power? Explain ...

 

[Toons]

That is exactly what I said they want to do ; inch towards taking them away completely.

You have too much faith in this increasingly evil institution. What you just described could be abused horribly.

It's what they do. Create a problem, then pretend to offer a solution while really just grasping for more power.

Please reconsider your views.

The problems already created. The solution is there and its proven to work. Everyone can see it.

You should reconsider YOUR views.

 

[StormCell]

The fact of the matter is strict gun control works, it significantly reduces these type of horrific events.

So why wouldn’t America bring in strict gun control to stop kids being murdered in this way?

Don't overlook the fact that parts of the US have ultra strict gun control laws. Some of them are leading the world in gun homicide numbers...

 

[LQX]

I sort of think coverage of these shootings motivates others, but at he same time how do you not cover a story like this? All these fucking kids dead and that number might rise.

 

[FunkMiller]

Don't overlook the fact that parts of the US have ultra strict gun control laws. Some of them are leading the world in gun homicide numbers...

Nowhere in America has strict gun control laws, my friend.

 

[Madonis]

Don't overlook the fact that parts of the US have ultra strict gun control laws. Some of them are leading the world in gun homicide numbers...

Problem is, you can easily drive over to another state and get a gun very easily there. Which makes the whole thing a joke. You would need nationwide changes, not just state-level reforms.

 

[Sybrix]

What is the solution?

Genuinely want to know

Remove all guns from general sale.

All guns need to have separate licences for ownership.

The buyer has to justify to local law enforcement the reason for wanting to own a gun. (Protection from your government isn’t a reason)

Local law enforcement to check where the owner will store their guns, in a locked cabinet? Fixed to a wall? In a locked room?

A full background check.

A full medical assessment, physical and mental.

The above is a good start, still needs more barriers to gun ownership though.

 

[DragoonKain]

There's a lot of good middle ground solutions.

Problem is, people prefer to do nothing instead. "We've tried nothing and are all out of ideas" indeed.

Can you give a link to a site that details them, if one exists? I'd be interested in reading. I tried to read up on the subject, but it's almost impossible because any site I find is usually all pro gun or all anti gun and skews the facts and I can't get an honest breakdown of gun reform laws and how they'd work and analyzed on how they'd prevent mass shootings.

And also, each state has different gun laws, so I guess these laws would need to be federal.

 

[Toons]

Funk, I'm with you, but... saying that other countries have mental health (or other problems) similar to the US is not quite comparing apples to apples.

The United States has:
(1) 330+ million people spread out across 3.1 million square miles. That's almost twice the land size of the entire European Union.
(2) A lot of people with different cultures, different backgrounds, different histories. You can't expect a first-generation immigrant in New York City to have the same mentality as a small rancher in Montana, on a variety of issues. (Including gun control.)

There are other things but I'm trying to keep this post short (ish). So comparing the UK to the US is not quite apples to apples.

Just now that it's an observation, NOT an excuse to not activate stricter gun control laws. Which needs to happen.


I'm gonna disregard the "teacher mentioning his spouse" because it's not just factually incorrect on multiple fronts, but also irrelevant to the immediate discussion.

Now you're getting into "disingenuous" territory. I have now (multiple times) said in this thread that I am for stricter gun control. So, you can say whatever you want about what you think, but please do not speak for me, especially when you're wrong about it.

You can reply if you want, but I'm gonna ignore it. Again, have a good day, dude

Again you say virtually nothing.

It is relevant to the discussion, actually, because it shows that the "nothing we can do" mindset is BS and doesn't stop them from trying to illicit change through legislation. If they are willing to do it for that they should he willing to do it for kids getting riddled with bullets while in school.

Anything but address the real issue.

We need more than just "ehhh idk.."

Because these evil folks aren't waiting around for something better to come around. They are using what they can get to and going out to execute their killing sprees. And they need to be stopped.

 

[StateofMajora]

Having tighter rules for gun owners is giving the institution more power? Explain ...

Who is implementing these rules? Who do you think that gives more power to?

You think they will stop at tighter restrictions? It should be self evident what they want to achieve.

They've even suggested amending the constitution.

You want to trust this insane administration with whether or not you're mentally fit to own firearms every 6 months as Hawking Radiation suggested?

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Much tighter gun controls across the board. I can still get a gun in the UK… but I have to rightly jump through many hoops to do so, and prove I am responsible.

It’s just too easy to buy and own a gun in the US. Make it harder… make it more of a process that eliminates those who shouldn’t own them, and mass shootings will reduce significantly.

It worked in other countries. It’d work in America.

And I've already stated before that authorities should have everything of you on record and also sit a mandatory mental health exam every 6 months.

You don't drive your car for years without a service or check up. The same for gun owners. They need to have ownership rights be re-assessed every few months. Any prior acts of violence should be considered before granting ownership. Just thorough screening before and during ownership of any firearms.

I feel for kids in America. I can't imagine how they are able to continue to function in class knowing that their school might be harbouring an individual on the edge, ready to take innocent lives.
I just fucking can't. enough news for me today, this shit has me fuming.

 

[Toons]

Who is implementing these rules? Who do you think that gives more power to?

You think they will stop at tighter restrictions? It should be self evident what they want to achieve.

They've even suggested amending the constitution.

You want to trust this insane administration with whether or not you're mentally fit to own firearms every 6 months as Hawking Radiation suggested?

If if means there's a reduced chance of this happen, YES. unequivocally yes. Easiest answer in the world.

 

[h00ters]

I think the difference is Australian’s gun control legislation was extreme. 350+ million guns is way harder to control, and also there’s tons of illegal guns in circulation that will never be out of public hands. On top of that, America has a hardcore gun culture, millions, and I don’t throw that number around lightly, would flat out refuse to give up their guns and may even defend it to their deaths. I think America may be too far gone for legislation like Australia, I don’t see how realistically it could even be implemented with the roadblocks I just listed, but I do hope there is some middle ground.

I’m not a gun expert, I’ve never owned one, so I can’t say what that middle ground is. In a perfect world though I’d like a society without guns at all.

Yeah I think you're right. The culture aspect is certainly the most difficult piece of the puzzle to change.

 

[12Goblins]

aren't you an engineer?

 

[Nobody_Important]

 

[Jsisto]

I think were at the point where nothing short of near military like defense of schools will be able to stop things like this from happening. Not something I want but it's far better than kids senselessly getting gunned down. Fucking terrible.

 

[haxan7]

We need to return to a culture of traditional morality if we want this kind of random violence to end. We live in a culture of death.

 

[DragoonKain]

Remove all guns from general sale.

All guns need to have separate licences for ownership.

The buyer has to justify to local law enforcement the reason for wanting to own a gun. (Protection from your government isn’t a reason)

Local law enforcement to check where the owner will store their guns, in a locked cabinet? Fixed to a wall? In a locked room?

A full background check.

A full medical assessment, physical and mental.

The above is a good start, still needs more barriers to gun ownership though.

I don't own guns, so I wouldn't care if those laws were implemented. But with 350 million guns still in circulation you'd also have to put into place strict punishments for the illegal sale of guns. Like over a decade in prison, mandatory. Because of guns were banned from general sale, back room sales would increase dramatically. And there would need to be a deterrent to that for it to work.

And frankly, with that many guns already in circulation, I can't blame someone for wanting to own a gun. For example, a girl breaks up with her crazy ex who already legally owns a gun. He threatens her, begins stalking her. She feels unsafe. Every time she leaves work or goes home, she's looking over her shoulder. Wants to buy a gun. May not get approved for her reasoning under these new laws. Even so, the wait may be significant. I can sympathize with someone like that who gets screwed over. Not saying that sacrifices can't be made for the greater good and sometimes laws are going to screw over one demographic or another, but I can sympathize with someone like that. Also the gun shops that would immediately go out of business. The government would have to support them financially at their current expenses, otherwise you're just making countless families broke at the snap of a finger.

When you're as deep into this culture of America is, the transition is never going to be seamless. It's going to be extremely nasty, and people are of course going to make their cases against it.

And even then, with that many guns already owned in the US, we'd have to see over time if these new reforms even had the intended effect.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

Who is implementing these rules? Who do you think that gives more power to?

You think they will stop at tighter restrictions? It should be self evident what they want to achieve.

They've even suggested amending the constitution.

You want to trust this insane administration with whether or not you're mentally fit to own firearms every 6 months as Hawking Radiation suggested?

Yes, because clearly we have unstable individuals who abuse using guns and they require that level of restriction.

15 innocent people including children got killed today because one guy got a gun that shouldn't have.

 

[Sybrix]

I don't own guns, so I wouldn't care if those laws were implemented. But with 350 million guns still in circulation you'd also have to put into place strict punishments for the illegal sale of guns. Like over a decade in prison, mandatory. Because of guns were banned from general sale, back room sales would increase dramatically. And there would need to be a deterrent to that for it to work.

And frankly, with that many guns already in circulation, I can't blame someone for wanting to own a gun. For example, a girl breaks up with her crazy ex who already legally owns a gun. He threatens her, begins stalking her. She feels unsafe. Every time she leaves work or goes home, she's looking over her shoulder. Wants to buy a gun. May not get approved for her reasoning under these new laws. Even so, the wait may be significant. I can sympathize with someone like that who gets screwed over. Not saying that sacrifices can't be made for the greater good and sometimes laws are going to screw over one demographic or another, but I can sympathize with someone like that. Also the gun shops that would immediately go out of business. The government would have to support them financially at their current expenses, otherwise you're just making countless families broke at the snap of a finger.

When you're as deep into this culture of America is, the transition is never going to be seamless. It's going to be extremely nasty, and people are of course going to make their cases against it.

And even then, with that many guns already owned in the US, we'd have to see over time if these new reforms even had the intended effect.

I think America is too far gone, in fact I know they are.

When you have children shot to death in school and nothing is done to prevent these types of incidents, I think some could conclude you have a failed state on your hands.

 

[nush]

Has anybody else seen those pictures of him yet?

 

[InfiniteCombo]

That is exactly what I said they want to do ; inch towards taking them away completely.

You have too much faith in this increasingly evil institution. What you just described could be abused horribly.

It's what they do. Create a problem, then pretend to offer a solution while really just grasping for more power.

Please reconsider your views.

I know you're probably gonna get dunked on (maybe already underway?) for this, but... you make a valid point. Maybe not the most refined wording, but a valid point nevertheless.

We as a country need to go back to examine the Second Amendment. It's rooted in (what I believe to be) very valid Enlightenment-era political science arguments about citizens of a nation-state being able to defend themselves in the event the leadership of the nation-state turns tyrannical and starts violating the human rights of its citizens. Historically you can see in many examples where tyrants forcefully ruled countries violating human rights; the population was disarmed and couldn't rise up.

Any time these things happen, the immediate (seemingly emotional) response is "take away everybody's guns!" For the record, for the millionth time: I am for more gun control. What does that mean, personally to me? Make it harder to get guns. Start scaling back high-capacity guns. Do mental health (YES, MENTAL HEALTH) evaluations. Provide gun education. You know, here in the United States we used to have classes in public schools called Home Economics ("Home Ec" for short), which was a class where high school kids got taught all sorts of useful life skills (e.g., changing a tire, cooking and fire safety, how to balance your bank account, things of that sort). That sounds like a perfect place to teach about gun safety, gun responsibility, etc. Except that "Home Ec" classes are practically almost extinct, as not many public school districts still offer them. (That's what it seems like; I'd have to look up actual stats).

Where are the "take all guns away!" people when Chicago reports 20+ people dead in a single weekend from gun violence, somewhat routinely? Where were those people when the city of Baltimore in Maryland was known as "Bodymore, the murder capital of the world?"

I think most sensible people in this thread (myself included) want some sort of reformed gun control. I don't think anybody is against that. But again (also for the millionth time), "GUNS GO AWAY" is a simplistic knee-jerk response. Gun rights have been around for 250+ years; what has happened to America recently that shootings of all sorts are way up? Is it a cultural problem? Is it a mental health problem? Is it a problem with people losing traditional values and feeling lost in life? (Answer: It's all of the above, and more).

 

[Nobody_Important]

We need to return to a culture of traditional morality if we want this kind of random violence to end. We live in a culture of death.

"Traditional morality"?

You'll have to explain that one. Because the rest of the world seems to be doing just fine by comparison.