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[jroc74]

Microsoft spent $100 million to keep rise of the tomb raider off PlayStation for 1 year. How much do you figure Spiderman cost to make?

Sony did not use their internal studio to make the game, their internal studios were busy working on their own games.

They all take risks when they want to.

Insomniac just made Sunset for Microsoft during that time period so they had a close relationship with them too.

Someone made a bad call in hindsight but I'm sure they weighed the options at that time and were ok living with it. It happens all the time. Sony refused to publish Demon's Souls in the west because they did not believe the IP would be successful even though they owned the IP. These things happen.

Yup, Demon's Souls is the first thing I thought of reading this thread.

It happens. It is what it is.

 

[CamHostage]

Which studio does everyone think that Microsoft could have put on a marvel franchise in 2014? How many studios did they have then?

Good question...

I think though that I would start with it being Microsoft, and so they wouldn't have to have an internal studio working on the project. (In fact, Insomniac was not owned by Sony at the time when Marvel came calling to make a game together, and Sony picked Insomniac despite that studio making moves towards independence and away from Sony at the time; they had just done Fuse for EA and were working on Sunset Overdrive, but there was no bad blood fueling Insomnaic's move to make new friends plus they still had ties with Sony for Ratchet, so it worked out.)

If we're talking something big like a Hulk game (which is the most obvious guess at what MS would have chosen, as even way back when we heard that Marvel was taking pitches for games and Sony got Spidey everybody immediately jumped to assumptions that the big green guy would be on Microsoft's big green box,) Insomniac is as has been said a solid choice. Of internal studios at Microsoft in the 2013/2016 timeframe, Black Tusk/Coalition would have been a choice (they were moving onto Gears from their original IP attempt just around that time, this could have caught them before the change... and then, maybe People Can Fly could have been retained for Gears, but that's all an alternate timeline that may or may not have been better than Gears 4/5,) Twisted Pixel was never AAA but they have mainstream talent from and could have been pushed in unexpected ways after fucking around with LocoCycle and The Gunstringer, Lionhead was still existent and could have been saved with a mainstream title, and then crazy idea but Rare had "owed" the Xbox audience a mainstream monster hit since its purchase and they certainly had the talent to do anything, plus that would have been the serious name that Marvel would have liked to see to rep its brands. As far as third parties, take your pick, but in that timeframe, MS was working with People Can Fly (again), Double Helix, Crytek, Ruffian, Remedy, Sumo Digital, Splash Damage, Armature, Remedy, and Asobo, among others who might have been considered.

I don't know if there was really a blockbuster formula for success in there, but then I didn't really think Insomniac's approach to game design would have been right for Spider-Man (and am still questioning how they will fit as a Wolverine developer,) but the choice was obviously smart on that one.

 

[jroc74]

I am not, maybe you lack the brain capacity to understand what I am saying... game rating systems are only using 6-10 and the rest is not really used, hence why I said an 8/10 is way below below a 9/10... because that's how shitty rating systems work today.

if you don't understand that I am very sorry for you

You literally in 2 seperate posts, minutes apart.....changed the ratings scale of your own opinion.

Not posts by other users or by me. But your own posts. How it went from your own opinion to ratings systems of critics I will never know.

And I lack brain capacity?

No need to be sorry for me.

I didnt write those posts....you did.

 

[SSfox]

I don't get this debat, if MS made Spiderman it wouldn't be that good, it's something to own an IP, and it's another thing to do it right with the IP.

It's like Batman, everyone knows that the games wouldn't be that good if done by other than Rocksteady, and same applies here with Spidey/Insomniacs. There are already tons of useless shitty games, and we def don't need more of those.

 

[DarkMage619]

Good question...

I think though that I would start with it being Microsoft, and so they wouldn't have to have an internal studio working on the project. (In fact, Insomniac was not owned by Sony at the time when Marvel came calling to make a game together, and Sony picked Insomniac despite that studio making moves towards independence and away from Sony at the time; they had just done Fuse for EA and were working on Sunset Overdrive, but there was no bad blood fueling Insomnaic's move to make new friends plus they still had ties with Sony for Ratchet, so it worked out.)

If we're talking something big like a Hulk game (which is the most obvious guess at what MS would have chosen, as even way back when we heard that Marvel was taking pitches for games and Sony got Spidey everybody immediately jumped to assumptions that the big green guy would be on Microsoft's big green box,) Insomniac is as has been said a solid choice. Of internal studios at Microsoft in the 2013/2016 timeframe, Black Tusk/Coalition would have been a choice (they were moving onto Gears from their original IP attempt just around that time, this could have caught them before the change... and then, maybe People Can Fly could have been retained for Gears, but that's all an alternate timeline that may or may not have been better than Gears 4/5,) Twisted Pixel was never AAA but they have mainstream talent from and could have been pushed in unexpected ways after fucking around with LocoCycle and The Gunstringer, Lionhead was still existent and could have been saved with a mainstream title, and then crazy idea but Rare had "owed" the Xbox audience a mainstream monster hit since its purchase and they certainly had the talent to do anything, plus that would have been the serious name that Marvel would have liked to see to rep its brands. As far as third parties, take your pick, but in that timeframe, MS was working with People Can Fly (again), Double Helix, Crytek, Ruffian, Remedy, Sumo Digital, Splash Damage, Armature, Remedy, and Asobo, among others who might have been considered.

I don't know if there was really a blockbuster formula for success in there, but then I didn't really think Insomniac's approach to game design would have been right for Spider-Man (and am still questioning how they will fit as a Wolverine developer,) but the choice was obviously smart on that one.

I am not seeing anything resembling a guaranteed hit here. As we've seen with Guardians even good Marvel games aren't guaranteed to sell.

Also with the state of Xbox at the time I am not seeing them taking an IP they didn't own to an external studio to develop. People keep bringing up Crackdown as if it was a choice between that and Marve's IP. Doesn't MS own the Crackdown IP?

It's odd to see this as some sort of major failure on MS's part when they really didn't have the same circumstances as Sony. In the end MS did work with Disney but in both cases they actually own the studios doing the work so perhaps that's the way they'd prefer to do business.

 

[Wohc]

I don't get this debat, if MS made Spiderman it wouldn't be that good, it's something to own an IP, and it's another thing to do it right with the IP.

It's like Batman, everyone knows that the games wouldn't be that good if done by other than Rocksteady, and same applies here with Spidey/Insomniacs. There are already tons of useless shitty games, and we def don't need more of those.

Do you really think that only Insomniac could have made a 80+ Spiderman with a nice budget and Arkham as template? They did a good job, but that doesn't mean other teams would have failed.

 

[MightySquirrel]

Genius move. Apart from spyderman i honestly can't think of any other marvel character. Iron man maybe?

 

[Silent Viper]

So does this end the narrative that sony moneyhat spider-man?

Sony already had license for games. They would have got the licence regardless.

Also, in 2014. MS hardly had any studios capable of making quality Marvel games. It was different situation back then. Xbox was going through lot of problems back then. I mean Terry Myerson wanted to sell Xbox. Xbox was not getting funding to make games.

 

[SLB1904]

Do you really think that only Insomniac could have made a 80+ Spiderman

Yes
Deal with it

 

[Panajev2001a]

I am not seeing anything resembling a guaranteed hit here. As we've seen with Guardians even good Marvel games aren't guaranteed to sell.

Square-Enix’s Guardians was preceded by their Avengers flop… so you are fishing for it a bit.

It's odd to see this as some sort of major failure on MS's part when they really didn't have the same circumstances as Sony.

Both did not have internal capacity and went with a trusted third party. So mmmh…

 

[Panajev2001a]

Sony already had license for games. They would have got the licence regardless.

[citation needed]

 

[Hobbygaming]

Disney 100% approves these games and their content.

That doesn't mean they're the same

 

[DarkMage619]

Square-Enix’s Guardians was preceded by their Avengers flop… so you are fishing for it a bit.

Was Guardians a good game or not? Just having the Marvel license doesn't guarantee success. Sony had a unique circumstance and good on them for the successful product.

Both did not have internal capacity and went with a trusted third party. So mmmh…

And Sony had a well established and supported game division and MS was on the verge of potentially ending the Xbox as a product. Was there any precedence of MS licensing an IP then hiring a 3rd party to develop it in 2014? Seems to me like drastically different circumstances. Like I said with Pirates of the Caribbean and Indiana Jones MS owns those studios and that came years later.

 

[phil_t98]

Iron Man PS VR game, which Sony hired Camoflaj to make just like they hired Insomniac to make Spider-Man, was also fantastic. I'm very, very excited to see a sequel on PS VR 2.

I have that and thought it was ok that’s about it

 

[phil_t98]

My guess is that Wolverine will be pretty good. Very happy that Insomniac is making it.

No offense intended BTW.

I suspect wolverine will be awesome to but my point was what other marvel games that were out except spiderman because that game is amazing personally

 

[SSfox]

Do you really think that only Insomniac could have made a 80+ Spiderman with a nice budget and Arkham as template? They did a good job, but that doesn't mean other teams would have failed.

You're only speculating here.

So far facts speaks for itself, Spiderman exists since 100 years and gaming exists since 30 years, and it was only until Insomniacs put their hands on the IP that we a got a very good Spiderman game, same can also be said about Batman and Rocksteady.

There are a bunch of awesome IPs with huge potential for great games that are either dormant or in the trash, but as usual it's until a passionate somebody take the initiative to bring on something great out of those IPs, that you'll have the internet speculators with their "BUT IF/BUT WHAT IF".

But guess what? only facts matters, and the fact is that Sony took the initiative to get the Spiderman IP and do something great with it, and they actually done that. Now it's Wolverine turn also, and that could potentially become a huge awesome game IP.

That being said personally speaking i don't want them to focus too much on Marvel games, superhero games like Spiderman are great time to time, but Sony should not forget that what matters if variety above everything. I think Spiderman and Wolverine are already very enough for some superhero games, no need for more of that.

 

[Lupin25]

Spider-Man was lightning in a bottle, before we call anything a mistake let’s see another good Marvel game. Infamous as previously stated are mostly shit games, they tried too hard to make traversal more fun, but really insomniac didn’t understand how to code driving cars and make an interesting open world. The combat in Infamous was meh, the sequel was very weak, the characters weren’t very interesting.

People are staring to get Marvel fatigue, even the review padded scores for the most whored reviewers(ign etc) couldn’t give the new Dr. Strange a high score. Not even Benedict Cumberbuns could draw people in.Disney Marvel shit is getting stale, even the brainless masses that love this garbage are starting to turn away.

Infamous was made by Sucker Punch lol.

Insomniac was perfect for Spider-Man, even Remedy or Sucker Punch now would do well enough developing Marvel games. MS just wasn’t confident enough to take the risk developing the game.

I wouldn’t say people are getting tired of Marvel (see the success of Wandavision, Loki, and No Way Home: 6th highest-grossing film ever). There simply isn’t as many other compelling storylines left with the Avengers saga completed; Now they’re depending on less popular heroes.

 

[kingfey]

Because we all know they damn well needed to.

Despite having a fucking treasure trove of classic IP, MGS's continued reliance on Halo, Gears and Forza is pretty starling.

There is need, then there is studios which can do these games.

Outside of Insomniac spiderman, no studios have done a good marvel game.

It wasn't worth it all, without those studios.

Even now, only 2 studio can do good marvel games. Insomniac and rocksteady.

 

[Allandor]

There is need, then there is studios which can do these games.

Outside of Insomniac spiderman, no studios have done a good marvel game.
...

I wouldn't say "good". No other studio made a commercial successful marvel game so far. There were some good game though.
It is like with the Star Wars license. The license alone is very expensive. If it doesn't sell enough units, it is a commercial flop while potentially still being a good game.

 

[kingfey]

I wouldn't say "good". No other studio made a commercial successful marvel game so far. There were some good game though.

That is what matters to these companies. Without a commercial success, it's hard to pursue making those games.

Sony only went after 2 characters, spiderman and wolverine. That should tell you everything about marvel games.

 

[Wohc]

You're only speculating here.

So far facts speaks for itself, Spiderman exists since 100 years and gaming exists since 30 years, and it was only until Insomniacs put their hands on the IP that we a got a very good Spiderman game, same can also be said about Batman and Rocksteady.

There are a bunch of awesome IPs with huge potential for great games that are either dormant or in the trash, but as usual it's until a passionate somebody take the initiative to bring on something great out of those IPs, that you'll have the internet speculators with their "BUT IF/BUT WHAT IF".

But guess what? only facts matters, and the fact is that Sony took the initiative to get the Spiderman IP and do something great with it, and they actually done that. Now it's Wolverine turn also, and that could potentially become a huge awesome game IP.

That being said personally speaking i don't want them to focus too much on Marvel games, superhero games like Spiderman are great time to time, but Sony should not forget that what matters if variety above everything. I think Spiderman and Wolverine are already very enough for some superhero games, no need for more of that.

So did the guy i was talking to, nobody knows what could have been.
I don't think Sony is going for more superhero games, at least not from Insomniac, because capacities are limited. They will be doing Spiderman and also Wolverine for many years if Wolverine does well and i have no doubt about that if they market it on the same level as Spiderman. Perhaps they can make another small game in between times, but not a third huge ip.

 

[Team Andromeda]

One of the best moves, XBox has ever done.

 

[SpokkX]

Good

I would rather have original content than super hero stuff.

 

[Kokoloko85]

I’m not nitpicking when I’m just correcting your facts. 14.5 compared to 12 million is over 20% more. That’s a big deal.

Also consider you could easily buy a Xbox one 6 months after launch and you still can’t get a series X whenever you want. (Not saying it’s impossible to find) but the demand is still outpacing supply.

13 million not 12 lol. Its not a big deal at all

 

[GhostOfTsu]

I have no idea what you are talking about 'using Spider-Man to attack Sony' (persecution complex) but there is clearly a stark difference between passing on a completed project like GTA3 and access to IP but needing a studio ready to create a first party project for your platform.

Sony had practically a first party studio ready to take on the task and MS clearly didn't especially back in 2014. There is no evidence whatsoever MS would have been able to do what Insomniac did with the IP.

You may be new to gaming so you might not be aware of the numerous areas Sony 'borrowed' ideas from MS in the gaming space but good on Sony and Insomniac for doing a good thing with the Spider-Man IP. Clearly the title was perfect for the PlayStation fanbase.

If GTA wasn't enough, your hero company also turned down Resident Evil 4 exclusivity and the Yakuza series, that's why they end up on PlayStation.

All these legendary series are now associated with Playstation and evil Sony didn't have to do anything. Truth hurts.

GTA, Spider-Man, Resident Evil, Yakuza. Damn!

Microsoft's mistake made Resident Evil 4 a GameCube exclusive

Resident Evil 4 was very briefly a GameCube exclusive, but had Microsoft been better equipped, it might have been a long-term Xbox exclusive instead.

www.nintendo.destructoid.com

Yakuza Was Rejected By Nintendo And Microsoft At First, Series Producer Reveals

Yakuza's Executive Director Toshihiro Nagoshi reveals- among other things- how the games were made to appeal to the Japanese male audience.

www.gamingbolt.com

 

[kingfey]

If GTA wasn't enough, your hero company also turned down Resident Evil 4 exclusivity and the Yakuza series, that's why they end up on PlayStation.

All these legendary series are now associated with Playstation and evil Sony didn't have to do anything. Truth hurts.

GTA, Spider-Man, Resident Evil, Yakuza. Damn!

http://[URL]https://www.nintendo.de...ke-made-resident-evil-4-a-gamecube-exclusive/

[/URL]

http://[URL]https://www.gamingbolt....d-microsoft-at-first-series-producer-reveals/

[/URL]

You dont need to look at those games at those games. MS is pretty much dumb, when it comes to gaming.

They turned down Sega sale offer, when they were making xbox. That is how much dumb they are.

 

[skit_data]

Spider-Man has WAY too much handholding and context sensitive elements. also the mission design is extremely samey, and in the first game the missions with secondary characters were absolute dogshit

Arkham is way better <- fact

Can’t agree. I love Batman, I don’t really care about Spider-Man or Marvel.

I really really liked the Arkham games but even I remember texting a friend of mine who’s also into the Arkham games that told me to check out Spider-Man:
”Dude, this is better than the Arkham games IMO”.

The Arkham games have better voice acting, story and is much more up my alley but saying especially the first two is better than Spider-Man in terms of gameplay, player agency, traversal and overall fun factor is just wrong. I replayed them just a couple of months ago and Asylum and City really show their age in those respects.

Edit: Might be worth mentioning I didn’t even know Spider-Man was a PS exclusive when I bought and played it, that’s how little I cared about the game before buying it. I remember being confused to find out it was exclusive.

 

[Edgelord79]

 

[Loope]

I honestly think they could.

three things to look at

1. Whatever you want to say about Spider-Man, that character is the most valuable of all superheroes including DC. Sony or MS would pick Spider-Man first out of Marvel's library.

2. Microsoft may have looked at their first party studios but they were contracting out to devs and looking at the studios internally (accepting MS decision that they genuinely didn't have a match to dev a Marvel game) and externally, Insomniac is #1 of their outside contractors for big open world games.

3. At the time in 2014, Xbox 360 was the winner of the last gen at that time, and they did compete well initially with the Xbone that if Sony and MS both asked for Spider-Man then MS could have been given first refusal.

I will never understand why. It's just one of those heroes that does nothing for me, not even as a little kid. My son loves it though. I was always more of a DC fan myself.

 

[Dick Jones]

I will never understand why. It's just one of those heroes that does nothing for me, not even as a little kid. My son loves it though. I was always more of a DC fan myself.

You may not like Spider-Man, that's fine, so long as you aren't one of those freaks who like Cyclops

 

[Loope]

You may not like Spider-Man, that's fine, so long as you aren't one of those freaks who like Cyclops

ehehehehhe.

 

[ParaSeoul]

If GTA wasn't enough, your hero company also turned down Resident Evil 4 exclusivity and the Yakuza series, that's why they end up on PlayStation.

All these legendary series are now associated with Playstation and evil Sony didn't have to do anything. Truth hurts.

GTA, Spider-Man, Resident Evil, Yakuza. Damn!

Microsoft's mistake made Resident Evil 4 a GameCube exclusive

Resident Evil 4 was very briefly a GameCube exclusive, but had Microsoft been better equipped, it might have been a long-term Xbox exclusive instead.

www.nintendo.destructoid.com

Yakuza Was Rejected By Nintendo And Microsoft At First, Series Producer Reveals

Yakuza's Executive Director Toshihiro Nagoshi reveals- among other things- how the games were made to appeal to the Japanese male audience.

www.gamingbolt.com

These guys passed on all of these but gave Bloober Team the time of day TWICE

 

[Loope]

Yes
Deal with it

 

[Urban]

Yup, Demon's Souls is the first thing I thought of reading this thread.

It happens. It is what it is.

Not just Demon Souls.

If Sony did the right decision they might even have the whole Dark Souls franchise.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Spider-man was a garbage game until Sony made it. Same with Wolverine next and Star Wars. Marvel should pick only competent studios/publishers.

 

[Urban]

There is need, then there is studios which can do these games.

Outside of Insomniac spiderman, no studios have done a good marvel game.

It wasn't worth it all, without those studios.

Even now, only 2 studio can do good marvel games. Insomniac and rocksteady.

u know my news spamming boy...

People in this position dont make decision about what is possible right now. They make decisions on the vision of what could be possible.

 

[adamsapple]

If GTA wasn't enough, your hero company also turned down Resident Evil 4 exclusivity

Would be nice if you have read your own article first. They didn't turn it down, the planned meeting didn't go well, a deal was never offered to MS in the first place.

 

[Klayzer]

Im glad. I cant see any of Microsofts incompetent ass studios doing justice to Spiderman like Insomniac did on their first try.

Playground Games is far from being incompetent. It's one of the best studios in the industry, imo.

 

[Punished Miku]

Can’t agree. I love Batman, I don’t really care about Spider-Man or Marvel.

I really really liked the Arkham games but even I remember texting a friend of mine who’s also into the Arkham games that told me to check out Spider-Man:
”Dude, this is better than the Arkham games IMO”.

The Arkham games have better voice acting, story and is much more up my alley but saying especially the first two is better than Spider-Man in terms of gameplay, player agency, traversal and overall fun factor is just wrong. I replayed them just a couple of months ago and Asylum and City really show their age in those respects.

Edit: Might be worth mentioning I didn’t even know Spider-Man was a PS exclusive when I bought and played it, that’s how little I cared about the game before buying it. I remember being confused to find out it was exclusive.

Asylum is by far the best out of all of them. Spider Man and Arkham Knight have very impressive graphics, but the level design is largely irrelevant. Asylum was the only game out of all of them with great level design and interesting stealth sections. Pretty much the only thing Spider Man brought to the table that Arkham didn't mostly already have is the web swinging, and Insomniac definitely nailed that.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Microsoft would’ve fucked it up anyway.

 

[Klayzer]

I'd take a Joker game by Ninja Theory.

I totally forgot about Ninja Theory. That's another MS studio with quality action combat experience.

 

[Javthusiast]

They killed avengers, and their big names.

Post marvel is kinda shit with no iron man and captain America.
Its like killing batman and superman from DC.

Yeah entire phase 4 for me so far has been meandering. Nothing really grabs me long term and it doesn't help that there is still no clear throughline on who the big Avengers threat villain will be.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Honestly its more about Insomniac. They could have created original IPs for Sony and the games would have been good and potentially big sellers.

 

[skit_data]

Asylum is by far the best out of all of them. Spider Man and Arkham Knight have very impressive graphics, but the level design is largely irrelevant. Asylum was the only game out of all of them with great level design and interesting stealth sections. Pretty much the only thing Spider Man brought to the table that Arkham didn't mostly already have is the web swinging, and Insomniac definitely nailed that.

I felt both Asylum and City were pretty limited in terms of how to approach enemies by stealth compared to Arkham Knight. I usually just ended up using invert takedowns and silent takedowns and then go hand-to-hand whereas in Spider-Man it was easier to combine gadgets, stealth and close combat in a more free flow. I think it’s possibly related to Batman in the Arkham games being kind of squishy and can’t dodge incoming bullets, leaving you to rely on taking out enemies with guns from a safe position whereas Spider-Man can dodge, close the distance and move in and out of gunfire.

 

[Rockman33]

Spider-man was a garbage game until Sony made it. Same with Wolverine next and Star Wars. Marvel should pick only competent studios/publishers.

I thought ravens wolverine back in the day was pretty solid.

 

[Mephisto40]

Mega excited about a proper new X-Men game

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I thought ravens wolverine back in the day was pretty solid.

Yes, I believe so. But now I think it'll be "legendary" level.

 

[THEAP99]

Seems like a typical Xbox move

 

[The Alien]

So this went down in 2014?
Odd that it's coming out now.

2014 was a completely different time.
Marvel certainly hadn't reached its peak.

But more importantly on the XBox side, they were a mess. They had Dinny Boy "leading" the division. They were cutting costs because the higher ups didn't support XBox - it almost went under so they werent spending. More importantly - they were focusing on their own IP....because they had less than 10 studios. They didn't have the necessary support at that time to do what's happening now.

 

[kingfey]

u know my news spamming boy...

People in this position dont make decision about what is possible right now. They make decisions on the vision of what could be possible.

Companies operate on what they can do now. This way, they can calculate the budgets, and anything related to making those projects.

You can have visions of what could be possible, and still not attain it, because of the proper tools needed to achieve it.