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[Jigsaah]

I've been considering the state of gaming today and noticing the dichotomy of Sony's live service offerings. While Helldivers 2 was a huge success, Concord has so far proven to be a weak link in it's portfolio. We still have Fairgame$ to look forward to at this point and I'll apologize in advance for not being too knowledgeable about what other live-service games have yet to release in the near future for the company.

Do you believe that Sony feels live service is still worth it at this point? Do they take the success of Helldivers 2 and figure this is still the best way forward? Do they look at Concord and decide to go back to relying mainly on the single-player experiences they are so well known for?

I think I know what GAF would prefer Sony to do, but that's not the question. Depending on your response, discuss why you feel Sony will go one way or the other

I personally don't think they give up fully on either, but I believe they will rely on live-service to simply fund what they really want to do, single player cinematic experiences. I think they pause a bit on such an aggressive live-service strategy on console and find their way into mobile and have mobile fund the big games we all know and love as well as new IP.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

The Surfer needs to go. Until then, Sony will go down that road. These people aren't known for admitting their mistakes.

 

[Skifi28]

We can only hope. Surely if they keep failing while the SP stuff sells like hotcakes, they'll eventually get the message.

Right?

 

[Punished Miku]

They still need GAAS revenue. I dont see it changing.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I think their strategy should be for Hermen Hulst’s mom to personally call everyone who insulted Concord and tell them they’re talentless freaks who should give the game a chance.

 

[vivftp]

Their live service strategy is here to stay. End of story.

 

[Humdinger]

Do you believe that Sony feels live service is still worth it at this point?

Oh yes, absolutely. It's too potentially lucrative to ignore. I don't see that changing any time soon.

Do they take the success of Helldivers 2 and figure this is still the best way forward? Do they look at Concord and decide to go back to relying mainly on the single-player experiences they are so well known for?

I don't think they'll make major changes based on just those two games. They may (I hope) back more Helldivers-type projects in the future and be less likely to back Concord-like projects. But it's not just those two game styles, of course. They have a variety of different Live service styles brewing in the pot. They'll keep trying to find a formula that works.

I personally don't think they give up fully on either, but I believe they will rely on live-service to simply fund what they really want to do, single player cinematic experiences. I think they pause a bit on such an aggressive live-service strategy on console and find their way into mobile and have mobile fund the big games we all know and love as well as new IP.

I don't know what it will mean for the single-player games. Live Service games can only fund SP development if they find one that is highly successful and lucrative over a long period of time, and then choose to invest that money in SP rather than more Live Service. I don't know what they will do. Maybe they put that money back into Live Service game development, because that's where they struck it rich? I'd rather they use it to fund SP games, but I have no idea what they'll actually do.

I've seen people say that Sony's prioritization of SP titles is not affected by their decision to invest so heavily in Live Service games, but I am suspicious of that. I'm suspicious of a lot of things, though, heh, so that doesn't mean I'm right. I just don't feel the energy around Sony's first-party SP development that I used to feel, and I can't help but wonder if their heavy investment in Live Service games is part of that.

 

[Jigsaah]

Their live service strategy is here to stay. End of story.

Don't break my spirit

I hope they do like a 70-30 split. Like experiment with Live-service and hopefully strike gold...but really hit it hard on single player.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Ofcourse, they expanded their library.

People keep acting like they are replacing their singleplayer output, but they are adding Gaas to their portfolio.

Their goal is to become more expansive and become less reliant on 3rd party.

 

[Killer8]

While Helldivers 2 was a huge success, Concord has so far proven to be a weak link in it's portfolio.

Helldivers II success was the exception. Every other part of Sony's GaaS strategy is failing hard.

It's also lost 90% of its player base, so its success has actually come more from the traditional model of being a very popular one and done release, than as a live service game.

As 'live service' implies, the goal is to retain players and revenue over time, which it's failing at.

 

[Robb]

I imagine the entire point is to throw stuff out and hope at least something sticks. Helldivers 2 seems to be doing great, it’s probably a big cash cow for them. Of course they’d love it if all of their attempts were as successful, but I doubt they ever expected that would be the case.

That said Concord seem to be a much bigger failure than anyone could’ve ever guessed though.. Will be interesting to see how the rest fair.

 

[vivftp]

Don't break my spirit

I'm sorry but if your spirit is broken by such an obvious statement then you really haven't thought this topic through and should give some thought as to why you're being so reactionary and shortsighted.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Helldivers II success was the exception. Every other part of Sony's GaaS strategy is failing hard.

It's also lost 90% of its player base, so its success has actually come more from the traditional model of being a very popular one and done release, than as a live service game.

As 'live service' implies, the goal is to retain players and revenue over time, which it's failing at.

Obligatory reminder:

"It would be naive for us to assume that all 10 (live service games) will be massive successes so that is not a necessary condition for us to double first party revenues," said Ryan. "That is certainly not what we're assuming. Clearly, the distinction between a hit and not a hit is not a binary one."

Jim Ryan: Narrative Rich Games Will Remain the Bedrock of PlayStation's 1st-Party Lineup

PlayStation CEO Jim Ryan in a Q&A session with analysts from 2022 that were included with the recent [...]

www.vgchartz.com

 

[Jigsaah]

Helldivers II success was the exception. Every other part of Sony's GaaS strategy is failing hard.

It's also lost 90% of its player base, so its success has actually come more from the traditional model of being a very popular one and done release, than as a live service game.

As 'live service' implies, the goal is to retain players and revenue over time, which it's failing at.

Yea I suppose this is true. But is Helldivers meant to keep folks playing forever from a design perspective?

I look at successful live service games like Fortnite and look at what kept it going. In Fortnite, PUBG, Destiny 2...it's always been the content and reinventing itself in some way. Fortnite with it's seasons and relaunching...a plethora of different modes and user-generated content. PUBG maybe isn't the first mover in terms of battle royale, but it certainly benefits from the game that popularized the genre. Destiny 2, despite where it is now, has always had expansions and great pvp somewhat reminiscent of the Halo pedigree. I think PVP in general has a way of keeping things fresh. Battle Royale in general is design to be played for a long time. Helldivers lacks the PVP aspect and though I haven't played in a while has the content updates been much different than what the original game offered?

 

[Sintoid]

Strategy?

 

[Jigsaah]

I imagine the entire point is to throw stuff out and hope at least something sticks. Helldivers 2 seems to be doing great, it’s probably a big cash cow for them. Of course they’d love it if all of their attempts were as successful, but I doubt they ever expected that would be the case.

That said Concord seem to be a much bigger failure than anyone could’ve ever guessed though.. Will be interesting to see how the rest fair.

I still think Marathon is gonna be good. I love extraction shooters and it's releasing on consoles and PC last I remember. Fairgame$? I would be surprised if it were good. Gives me The FInals kinda vibes and I absolutely despise that game.

 

[Fbh]

I don't think they'll move away from GAAS. The appeal is still there, they still know if they can get one big hit it will make enough money to make up for all the failures along the way.
Maybe their approach will change though, they might reconsider the pricing for some of their future releases and maybe, just maybe, they have figured out there is no market for this "woke" stuff when it isn't attached to a popular IP.

Also "refocus" on single player makes it sound like they moved away from those types of games, which isn't really true. I don't like their GAAS initiative but at least they've aquired and contracted new teams to work on that stuff. As far as I know all their core single player studios like Guerilla, Santa Monica, Sucker Punch, Asobi, etc are working on single player games and they've also made tons of deals with third/second parties to secure single player exclusives (this year alone we've had Stellar Blade, Rise of Ronin and Rebirth).
The one exception was Naughty Dog but they reverted course on that before Concord bombed.

 

[Xtib81]

Hopefully they refocus on single player games, which doesn't mean they shouldn't try to release successful multiplayer games from Time to time but their strong IPs is what entice people to buy their console.

 

[Jigsaah]

I don't think they'll move away from GAAS. The appeal is still there, they still know if they can get one big hit it will make enough money to make up for all the failures along the way.
Maybe their approach will change though, they might reconsider the pricing for some of their future releases and maybe, just maybe, they have figured out there is no market for this "woke" stuff when it isn't attached to a popular IP.

Also "refocus" on single player makes it sound like they moved away from those types of games, which isn't really true. I don't like their GAAS initiative but at least they've aquired and contracted new teams to work on that stuff. As far as I know all their core single player studios like Guerilla, Santa Monica, Sucker Punch, Asobi, etc are working on single player games and they've also made tons of deals with third/second parties to secure single player exclusives (this year alone we've had Stellar Blade, Rise of Ronin and Rebirth).
The one exception was Naughty Dog but they reverted course on that before Concord bombed.

Is Concord considered woke? Sorry haven't been paying much attention.

 

[Saber]

Biggest waste of money.

How many times it has to be said its beyond me. Every executive soycuck looks at the biggest money makers like Genshin Impact and say "thats easy work and easy money right there", when GaaS market is all about strong appeal(cool or sexy characters) and content, while being extremelly risky(players can migrate at any time if you don't provide stuff for them, and other reasons like a better competitor). Soycucks from LoU learn that the hard way.
Honestly I still think they will double down on their GaaS stupidity, but I'm all for them to get flop after flop and fail miserably.

Is Concord considered woke? Sorry haven't been paying much attention.

It has pronoums, even the robot. Is that normal for you?

 

[Robb]

I still think Marathon is gonna be good. I love extraction shooters and it's releasing on consoles and PC last I remember. Fairgame$? I would be surprised if it were good. Gives me The FInals kinda vibes and I absolutely despise that game.

Let’s hope so. I’d like to think Bungie knows what it’s doing. And the games that actually make it to market should get better over time as Sony evaluates each failed attempt. So that’s something positive at least, I guess.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Need to do fewer, good releases.

Also, stick to Destiny style story based games cause your core fanbase can shift to those with ease.

 

[FunkMiller]

They won't change.

Their greed won't let them.

 

[Jigsaah]

It has pronoums, even for a robot. Is that normal for you?

Just....why? Who does this help? It seems so contrived. Not to get off on a tangent, but I think people are fed up with feeling coerced to acknowledge something that has no basis in reality. I wonder who decides that this is a requirement.

 

[TheBreezyBB]

What made Sony what it is today is their games not this shit live services.

If they double down on this shit path, 5he cliff is not to far...

 

[LavitzSlambert]

I chose refocusing on single player experiences. But I am not expecting a tidal wave of change, here’s what will happen:

1. Single player studios who were forced to work on live services/multiplayer games will be back to making single player games.

2. Live service game development will continue. They’ve tasted success with Alex and Helldivers 2, so it’s proof the model is viable. Sony will be more picky about what they spend their money on in this segment in the future.

 

[Fbh]

Is Concord considered woke? Sorry haven't been paying much attention.

I put it in quotes because it really depends on your definition of the word. "Woke" as a term is sort of meaningless because it seems everyone has a different definition for it.
That said, it does have elements that I think a lot of people would consider "woke", like pronouns next to character names and character designs that seem to intentionally avoid traditionally attractive and/or cool designs for the sake of providing diversity. The game has more fat and ugly characters than attractive ones.

 

[Fabieter]

I voted no change because I know this company to well but I would wish they refocus tho.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Imo, this should have been Sony's strategy:
Strong new AAA SP games, with MP components. If these MP components strike a nerve with the community a specialized studio needs to ramp that shit up within a month.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Imo, this should have been Sony's strategy:
Strong new AAA SP games, with MP components. If these MP components strike a nerve with the community a specialized studio needs to ramp that shit up within a month.

That's pretty much what they did with Factions 2.

Factions 1 was very popular, so they had a special team working to ramp it up for TLOU2, until they realized it was becoming too expansive as part of TLOU2, so they split it off to not hold the release of TLOU2 back.
And then they realized it would be too much to handle and they needed the manpower for other singleplayer projects.
So instead of releasing a half-baked Factions 2, they decided to just not release it.

It probably doesnt work like that.

 

[Killer8]

Obligatory reminder:

"It would be naive for us to assume that all 10 (live service games) will be massive successes so that is not a necessary condition for us to double first party revenues," said Ryan. "That is certainly not what we're assuming. Clearly, the distinction between a hit and not a hit is not a binary one."

Jim Ryan: Narrative Rich Games Will Remain the Bedrock of PlayStation's 1st-Party Lineup

PlayStation CEO Jim Ryan in a Q&A session with analysts from 2022 that were included with the recent [...]

www.vgchartz.com

We shouldn't rely on old quotes from 2022 made by someone no longer at the company. Jim was the architect of their live service plans yes, but a lot has happened since then.

Concord has bombed more dramatically than any game in recent memory. The Last of Us Factions was cancelled. Since Hiroki Totoki and Hulst came in to replace Jim, they've had to restructure Bungie, cancelling projects, laying people off and moving everything not named Destiny or Marathon internally to SIE. Fairgame$ had a profoundly negative reaction when it was revealed.

Does this sound like a plan which is going smoothly?

Yea I suppose this is true. But is Helldivers meant to keep folks playing forever from a design perspective?

It is part of their live service strategy yes and has been held up as a successful example of one because of how many units it sold. It will rely on updates to keep people playing (and the money flowing). That's the goal at least.

A certain live service enthusiast on this forum (who's currently banned) once said that live service's advantage is that it has long legs and can continue making long term revenue. Whereas a single player release is usually very front-loaded. That is actually true. But Helldivers II has lost so many players that it seems to be fitting more into the latter model than the former.

Helldivers II developers said they didn't want to add PvP because it's 'toxic' (lol). But that is what a large chunk of their player base is wanting. I'd consider it a critical flaw if they lose player attention because of that.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

We shouldn't rely on old quotes from 2022 made by someone no longer at the company. Jim was the architect of their live service plans yes, but a lot has happened since then.

Concord has bombed more dramatically than any game in recent memory. The Last of Us Factions was cancelled. Since Hiroki Totoki and Hulst came in to replace Jim, they've had to restructure Bungie, cancelling projects, laying people off and moving everything not named Destiny or Marathon internally to SIE. Fairgame$ had a profoundly negative reaction when it was revealed.

Does this sound like a plan which is going smoothly?

They're doing exactly what Ryan stated they were going to do.

Factions 2 was cancelled because they just couldnt handle it.
That even happened under Ryan.

Cancelling projects was something they already anticipated, hence Ryan's statement in that interview.
Bungie was always going to be restructured, because it was a complete mess in upper management (which is why Activision killed the Destiny-deal and why Sony was able to buy them).

It sounds like they know what they are getting themselves into and we have absolutely no idea what their long-term plans and expectations are.
They didn't become market-leader by randomly making decisions.

We're all just guessing here.

 

[Three]

Helldivers 2 was a huge success, Concord a probable flop. Why would this change a strategy? There are single player successes and single player flops too. They're investing more in single player content than they did in the past AND they're investing in live service at the same time. These things aren't really mutually exclusive.

 

[Katatonic]

My prediction is that every multiplayer effort will be met with some sort of controversy with the ultimate goal of preventing anyone from "making their own Call of Duty".

 

[Astray]

I think it will be maintained for a bit because a lot of their other live service games are deep into development too. They're not going to just panic and cancel those.

The other thing is, they likely knew that not all their live-service games won't be successful.

Sony doesn't have the luxury of just dropping tens of billions on already-successful GAAS properties and calling it a day, if they want a GAAS success they have to go through the highs and lows of GAAS-making.

 

[Shin-Ra]

Predator: Hunting Grounds
Destruction Allstars
Firewall Ultra
> Helldivers II <
[Destiny 2 Expansions]
Concord

Even ‘failures’ like WipEout HD/FURY, The Order 1886 and Gravity Rush /2 hold long term value through ‘classics’ rereleases and remasters than these disposable, forgettable GaaS. The free multiplayer in PC versions also reveals what a ripoff PS+ paywalled multiplayer is.

 

[Aenima]

They will keep the strategy they set having some studios just for single player games, other studios just for GAAS and a couple of them doing a bit of both. GAAS games are not going anywhere.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

They'll keep going. They may have shut down some GAAS projects and laid off Bungie people. But they also bought out Firewalk last year and simply shifted some Bungie people to SIE studios to keep a new GAAS game going, which is a brand new IP.

And Helldivers 2 will forever be a posterboy for super successful GAAS games. So all it takes is someone bringing up giant riches from 12M H2 copies sold, and that'll be enough to always have GAAS on their mind...... "which game will be the next H2?"

A few years ago when the execs talked about their big GAAS focus on powerpoint slides one of them even said "all it takes is one big one to cover them all". So they already got a mindset and strategy knowing you got to shotgun many GAAS games to get that one successful H2. So they'll keep it going hoping for the next 10M+ seller like H2. It's a cycle.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

It's simple.

More quality MP experiences like Helldivers 2
Less shitty shooters like Concord.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The goal is to get a few hits and then double down on them

No, Sony will not be funding 20+ live service games forever. They are only doing that knowing most will fail, and that’s the loss required for entering the market

 

[Robb]

Helldivers 2 was a huge success, Concord a probable flop. Why would this change a strategy?

Well they did also scrap Spider-Man: The Great Web and TLoU: Factions completely. Destruction Allstars I assume was a flop. And Concord is seemingly a humongous flop. So 1/5 thus far with Helldivers 2 being a success. I’m probably forgetting some stuff/games though.

Not that I think that changes anything, but hasn’t been a great ride thus far. Lots of money down the drain.

 

[nial]

Predator: Hunting Grounds
Destruction Allstars
Firewall Ultra

Aren't these standard MP games? Sony's first GAAS was MLB The Show 21.

 

[Three]

Well they did also scrap Spider-Man: The Great Web and TLoU: Factions completely. Destruction Allstars I assume was a flop. And Concord is seemingly a humongous flop. So 1/5 thus far with Helldivers 2 being a success. I’m probably forgetting some stuff/games though.

Not that I think that changes anything, but hasn’t been a great ride thus far. Lots of money down the drain.

Factions was cancelled but there are numerous single player games being cancelled too. MLB and GT7 are also considered live service at Playstation.

 

[Robb]

Factions was cancelled but there are numerous single player games being cancelled too. MLB and GT7 are also considered live service at Playstation.

For sure, MLB and GT7 always slip my mind.

 

[Shin-Ra]

Aren't these standard MP games? Sony's first GAAS was MLB The Show 21.

Destruction Allstars and Firewall Ultra sell virtual currency *spit* and no doubt Predator would’ve kept releasing more meaningful paid content than skins if it wasn’t a flop from the start.

But even respected multiplayer games like Warhawk are lost to the online-service-requiring ether.

 

[Hunnybun]

They still need GAAS revenue. I dont see it changing.

You talk like such a thing is guaranteed. You can't get that without risking huge losses.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

At some point (and I'm pretty sure we're there after Concord), it's not about what Sony wants. It's about what their shareholders want.

Hint: Not this.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Well they did also scrap Spider-Man: The Great Web and TLoU: Factions completely. Destruction Allstars I assume was a flop. And Concord is seemingly a humongous flop. So 1/5 thus far with Helldivers 2 being a success. I’m probably forgetting some stuff/games though.

Not that I think that changes anything, but hasn’t been a great ride thus far. Lots of money down the drain.

And there's been plenty of rumors that Marathon is in big trouble. Not to mention that at the very least that Sony is seemingly unhappy with the HD2 PC-PS5 split.

I don't expect much to change from Sony. Now, if Fairgames flops...

 

[Topher]

Going to be foolishly optimistic and say Sony will refocus on single player. Hopefully we find out in the next month.

 

[nial]

Destruction Allstars and Firewall Ultra sell virtual currency *spit* and no doubt Predator would’ve kept releasing more meaningful paid content than skins if it wasn’t a flop from the start.

But even respected multiplayer games like Warhawk are lost to the online-service-requiring ether.

Yeah, those usual online only games from the past are pretty much what we see as GAAS these days, even if lacking some of the core attributes to these kind of games.
Destruction AllStars was apparently going to be F2P after it mega bombed, until Sony went "nah, why bother?". I think they will do this with Concord solely because they own Firewalk, and if stuff still doesn't go well, you know what happens.