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[DrFigs]

Another gaas dogpile. nevermind the game looked awful and that other sega games (presumably not all gaas) were also cancelled. surely the problem here was that it was a gaas.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Where's the new Project Diva? Where is the new Sega Rally? where is VF6? Alien Isolation 2 ?

 

[StereoVsn]

So total Clusterfuck with shit leadership and as a result whole bunch of time and money wasted. And of course instead of using those devs in another game they are firing them.

More concerning is that they are firing devs working in TotalWar and across IT. So a compete shit show both from CA and Sega.

Here is a tip, Sega and CA, make a new Medieval and Empires games like fans have been asking for many years. Maybe they will actually fucking sell.

 

[Hugare]

CA are very talented devs

I blame the suits. They are the ones who probably said "make a GAAS game! thats hyped nowadays". So they wasted years of those talented devs on a project that those who worked on it probably knew that it was going to die as soon as it had launched.

More than 5 years on this shit, instead of making Alien Isolation 2

 

[diffusionx]

it's one thing to greenlight some buzzword shit, but at some point you have to see the writing on the wall. They almost certainly spent more than $150M on this.

 

[fart town usa]

It's amazing that Sega still exists considering how many bonehead decisions they make.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Bigger than Shenmue adjusted for inflation? Doubt it

 

[Hudo]

Sega could've funded a Phantasy Star V or a remaster/remake of Burning Rangers or fucking Panzer Dragoon Saga...

Or, more conservatively, "just" an Alien Isolation 2.

 

[jayj]

it's one thing to greenlight some buzzword shit, but at some point you have to see the writing on the wall. They almost certainly spent more than $150M on this.

Imagine if they spent that making something like a new Virtual Fighter, or even a fraction on something like a new Outrun or Crazy Taxi.

 

[Comandr]

CA are very talented devs

I blame the suits. They are the ones who probably said "make a GAAS game! thats hyped nowadays". So they wasted years of those talented devs on a project that those who worked on it probably knew that it was going to die as soon as it had launched.

More than 5 years on this shit, instead of making Alien Isolation 2

Why does it feel like trying to explain to executives and shareholders that chasing trends and turning every game into a long term fomo scheme is a bad idea is like trying to explain color to helen keller

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Don’t go chasing waterfalls

Please stick to the rivers and the lakes that you’re used to

 

[Elder Legend]

Another example of higher-ups and execs being absolutely clueless, dumb fucks.

Godspeed to the people in the trenches at Creative Assembly.

The issue with the higher ups and execs is that they have no clue how the video game market works and how the fans operate. They also have never played a video game in their life just a bunch of old rich dudes who only understand money but not the video game business/industry.

 

[StereoVsn]

This whole situation is beyond ridiculous. The project should have never been green-lighted in the first place.

These resources could have been used for games that they can properly release and sell. So dumb and frustrating.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Maybe return to the console market is the cure, no one can deny that when they had a console their IPs came to life.
luckily they canceled this crap Hyenas

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Meanwhile, Capcom is in the right direction with most singleplayer games. Exoprimal has failed miserably and I hope they give up on the live-service model for any future project.

Hasn't the bulk of Capcoms turnaround been due to the performance of the Monster Hunter franchise...with MTX?

 

[Pejo]

The stuff in the OP further solidifies my theory that one of the biggest problems in gaming right now isn't developers or even necessarily publishers, it's middle/upper management and especially project managers. It seems like nobody can properly manage a game dev project anymore. I wonder if part of it is all these new whiny hires that complain about everything on social media, or creepers like Schreier waiting in the wings to write articles about "muh toxic work culture".

But it sounds like the project management is just absolutely failing these games, particularly in the west. Games either release broken, get delayed 20 times, or as in this case get cancelled outright after a ton of money and time and effort. Not that every JP game is a hit, but at least they mostly work at release and live up to some sort of timeline. And you never hear of JP devs complaining about their own companies on social media for sympathy likes.

That said, you could argue that Hyenas was never a good idea. Just looking at the reveal trailer - I knew, you knew, most of the gaming crowd knew. Apparently the only people that didn't know were the devs making the game and Sega.

 

[64bitmodels]

Why does it feel like trying to explain to executives and shareholders that chasing trends and turning every game into a long term fomo scheme is a bad idea is like trying to explain color to helen keller

because executives and shareholders don't understand video games. simple as.

If it were up to me becoming a gaming CEO would require more than a basic ass surface level nintendo understanding of the industry and what gamers want. But we do not live in such a world

 

[Comandr]

Hasn't the bulk of Capcoms turnaround been due to the performance of the Monster Hunter franchise...with MTX?

Wat? No. MHW became massively successful right out the gate, with the only available microtransactions being a costume change for the handler, three extra individual make up options, and a small handful of poses. I sincerely doubt that those items contributed in any meaningful way to the start of MHW's landslide success.

Furthermore, these microtransactions are absolutely 100% cosmetic that are available all the time. I feel that the majority of microtransaction fomo comes from paid season passes, timed exclusives, and items that offer some sort of gameplay advantage. These are the predatory practices that are harming the industry. I don't have anything necessarily against pure cosmetic add on purchases - though I do believe they should be just made available for free in game via events like it was in the past.

It's a lot cooler to see a hunter in gear they got from doing a limited time event rather than something they got from opening their wallet.

 

[64bitmodels]

Games either release broken, get delayed 20 times, or as in this case get cancelled outright after a ton of money and time and effort

Feel like the latter is the best scenario. Better to just lose their money they spent on the game then lose the money they spent on the game, lose the money distributing and manufacturing copies, make minimal revenue from it, and have to lose the server money and upkeep when distributing the game and upholding its servers too. It could have been a lot bigger.

 

[StereoVsn]

Maybe return to the console market is the cure, no one can deny that when they had a console their IPs came to life.
luckily they canceled this crap Hyenas

This is Creative Assembly, they are a PC studio.

 

[Comandr]

because executives and shareholders don't understand video games. simple as.

If it were up to me becoming a gaming CEO would require more than a basic ass surface level nintendo understanding of the industry and what gamers want. But we do not live in such a world

If you don't actively play the games your company produces, you shouldn't get to make business decisions regarding them. How can anyone be expected to make an informed decision when they don't themselves understand the product they make and sell? That's just a bad actor.

 

[TransTrender]

Was this one of those Sega branded NFT enjoying "Super Games" they were talking about two years ago?
Good fucking riddance.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Wat? No. MHW became massively successful right out the gate, with the only available microtransactions being a costume change for the handler, three extra individual make up options, and a small handful of poses. I sincerely doubt that those items contributed in any meaningful way to the start of MHW's landslide success.

Furthermore, these microtransactions are absolutely 100% cosmetic that are available all the time. I feel that the majority of microtransaction fomo comes from paid season passes, timed exclusives, and items that offer some sort of gameplay advantage. These are the predatory practices that are harming the industry. I don't have anything necessarily against pure cosmetic add on purchases - though I do believe they should be just made available for free in game via events like it was in the past.

It's a lot cooler to see a hunter in gear they got from doing a limited time event rather than something they got from opening their wallet.

My point was that Capcom turned their misfortunes around with a multiplayer centric franchise (Monster Hunter), not by doubling down on SP.

 

[FullMetalx117]

I think budget ended up being high because like all other markets it was momentum driven. Everyone is jumping on GAAS, so the talent and contract devs needed to make those types of games were able to command higher fees. I'm glad the devs were able to cash in while they could.

 

[Dane]

The stuff in the OP further solidifies my theory that one of the biggest problems in gaming right now isn't developers or even necessarily publishers, it's middle/upper management and especially project managers. It seems like nobody can properly manage a game dev project anymore. I wonder if part of it is all these new whiny hires that complain about everything on social media, or creepers like Schreier waiting in the wings to write articles about "muh toxic work culture".

But it sounds like the project management is just absolutely failing these games, particularly in the west. Games either release broken, get delayed 20 times, or as in this case get cancelled outright after a ton of money and time and effort. Not that every JP game is a hit, but at least they mostly work at release and live up to some sort of timeline. And you never hear of JP devs complaining about their own companies on social media for sympathy likes.

That said, you could argue that Hyenas was never a good idea. Just looking at the reveal trailer - I knew, you knew, most of the gaming crowd knew. Apparently the only people that didn't know were the devs making the game and Sega.

It always has been, higher management dictates the process, for example Cyberpunk 2077 was a mess because the higher ups ordered to scrap everything they did from 2012 to early 2017, and they only had three and half years to rebult it and count that with more of their bullshit decisions, which also included actually pushing forward the game to 2020 despite pleads from developers to have it released in late 2021 - early 2022.

 

[Utamaru1706]

TBH, this is no different with what Bandai Namco were doing with Gundam Evolution, where they were chasing the Overwatch trend with the whole hero shooter game, which was very likely still popular when the devs pitched in their proposal. Unfortunately for them, the hero shooter trend doesn't lasted too long, and it was also fueled with Blizzard's wrongdoings with the OW franchise, which somehow "helped" killed the whole trend.

The result is as expected, where Gundam Evolution only lasted for a year, and ironically, they were literally facing head-to-head with Overwatch 2, in which both games were released in a very close date (GunEvo on 21st September 2022, OW2 on 4th October).

Game trends were moving waaaay too fast nowadays, where the popularity of a genre can instantly change in a very short time, like what happened in the past 10 years or so, from open world, MOBAs, sandboxes, hero shooter, battle royale, social deduction (e.g Among Us), survival/horror, to whatever the trends nowadays (I think we're going back to open world again, at least on mobile).

Because of this, it's almost impossible to chase game trends, since developing game still takes quite some time, and you can only hope that the trend is still alive when the game is released, so you can still capitalized it.

Some devs were kinda lucky that their released games were having similar theme like the trends, so they only need to adjust their game in order to join the trend, instead of making it from the scratch, which definitely saves them a lot of production time (e.g Fortnite, Warzone, Apex, to name a few).

 

[Codes 208]

And it still looked like hot garbage

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Stuff like this shows the sorry state of the business side of gaming these days

 

[Days like these...]

Serious question is anybody at Sega even competent at making games anymore?

 

[diffusionx]

Imagine if they spent that making something like a new Virtual Fighter, or even a fraction on something like a new Outrun or Crazy Taxi.

Well, as much as I would like that, let's be real, these are not very popular franchises. The potential ROI on a new Crazy Taxi, Outrun, or Virtua Fighter is nothing compared to the ROI of a big GAAS game. That's why they funded it. Of course it has to be good, which they realized probably too late it wasn't. See what Sony is doing with all their games.

 

[TwinB242]

I guess im no longer under NDA since the game doesn't exist anymore, but I played an alpha build a while ago and it was ultimately very generic. 6-7 quality at best, and nothing about it felt high budget.

 

[Frwrd]

Exactly this, fuck GaaS. Crossing my fingers hoping the same happens to TLOU GaaS as well.

 

[jayj]

Well, as much as I would like that, let's be real, these are not very popular franchises. The potential ROI on a new Crazy Taxi, Outrun, or Virtua Fighter is nothing compared to the ROI of a big GAAS game. That's why they funded it. Of course it has to be good, which they realized probably too late it wasn't. See what Sony is doing with all their games.

Sorry but I think that's some poor logic. Why dump a ton of money into chasing a live service game when you can spend far less and produce some games that are guaranteed to have a fanbase. The risk outweighs the reward on this idea.

 

[poppabk]

I really think Exoprimal cratering has people shook.

 

[diffusionx]

Sorry but I think that's some poor logic. Why dump a ton of money into chasing a live service game when you can spend far less and produce some games that are guaranteed to have a fanbase. The risk outweighs the reward on this idea.

I think that old gamers like the sort who post on neogaf have a vastly inflated sense of the popularity of these franchises. Nobody gives a shit about Crazy Taxi in 2023. It's just a totally irrelevant franchise. Outrun is the same way. Bringing it out is like starting over basically. It likely doesn't cost nearly as much as a major service title and that does not mean it is not worth doing, but it's not a slam dunk or guaranteed money.

 

[Keihart]

Persona and Yakuza right now

 

[jayj]

I think that old gamers like the sort who post on neogaf have a vastly inflated sense of the popularity of these franchises. Nobody gives a shit about Crazy Taxi in 2023. It's just a totally irrelevant franchise. Outrun is the same way. Bringing it out is like starting over basically. It likely doesn't cost nearly as much as a major service title and that does not mean it is not worth doing, but it's not a slam dunk or guaranteed money.

Well it certainly doesn't look like it paid off here. We are literally in a discussion about a big expensive service title that is never going to exist. Every single dollar that was spent on this was money wasted, gone, a complete loss. I'd take something that could actually exist with some guaranteed sales over that, doesn't matter how anyone can analyze the fanbase.

 

[diffusionx]

Well it certainly doesn't look like it paid off here. We are literally in a discussion about a big expensive service title that is never going to exist. Every single dollar that was spent on this was money wasted, gone, a complete loss. I'd take something that could actually exist with some guaranteed sales over that, doesn't matter how anyone can analyze the fanbase.

well, that's hindsight. when executives make the decision to fund projects like this, they are looking at stuff like warzone, or ea's games, that just make endless amounts of money every year. obviously that is more attractive than a few bucks after expenses on outrun (and outrun comes with the inevitable delisting when the license runs out lmao).

it might seem ludicrous to put hyenas next to warzone, but again, that's where the decision is made.

 

[jayj]

well, that's hindsight. when executives make the decision to fund projects like this, they are looking at stuff like warzone, or ea's games, that just make endless amounts of money every year. obviously that is more attractive than a few bucks after expenses on outrun (and outrun comes with the inevitable delisting when the license runs out lmao).

it might seem ludicrous to put hyenas next to warzone, but again, that's where the decision is made.

Yeah I get that, but that's also why I think executives can be real fools. They know how to read the graph, do presentations, and analyze, but they have no real connection to anything.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

This is Creative Assembly, they are a PC studio.

and a Sega Second Party they can do a neu Alien game or a new Spartan Total Warrior, Sega needs return to console
despite the mistakes Sega is in its best phase (in profit) since the Sega Genesis.

 

[Battlesmurf]

So- what happens to code for something this big? I don't understand how it gets shelved. It has to be worth *something* to someone

 

[nikos]

So- what happens to code for something this big? I don't understand how it gets shelved. It has to be worth *something* to someone

Yeah, I wonder who owns the code and if anything can be done with it. The game doesn't need any of the SEGA licensed items. They were cool but completely unnecessary, at least from what I've played.

 

[Tams]

So- what happens to code for something this big? I don't understand how it gets shelved. It has to be worth *something* to someone

 

[SportsFan581]

really? i watched a few clips over on Angry Joe and it looked generic as fuck, i mean proper cut and paste elements and thrown together... how was this expensive?

I'm guessing that the expense comes from the development time regardless of what the end result is. They might not have gotten much out of the 6 years they put in, but I'm sure they paid for it.

 

[Badlucktroll]

 

[wipeout364]

First time I have heard of this, I love creative assembly but this like a weird project to put them on. Alien Isolation was great but I don’t remember being blown away by how fluid the movement and shooting was, it all seemed very functional.

 

[STARSBarry]

I will admit I mistook this for the Cocord thread as it's pretty much identical, but yeah what a bump.