Support NeoGAF

[IDKFA]

World Rugby trans guidelines divide opinion

World Rugby's decision to prevent transgender women from competing at the highest levels of the women's game has been criticised by LGBT charity Stonewall.

www.bbc.co.uk

LGBT rights campaigners have criticised World Rugby's decision to prevent transgender women from competing at the highest levels of the women's game.

LGBT charity Stonewall says it is "deeply disappointed" with the decision.

"The proposals were based on hypothetical data modelling that has little relevance to the questions of fairness and safety in rugby that the policy review sought to address," said Stonewall chief executive Nancy Kelley.

World Rugby's chairman, Bill Beaumont, said: "We recognise that the science continues to evolve and we are committed to regularly reviewing these guidelines, always seeking to be inclusive."

However, former Great Britain swimmer Sharron Davies, has welcomed World Rugby's decision.

The 57-year-old, a silver medallist at the 1980 Olympics, posted on social media: "If we, as a fair society, want equal opportunities for females to medals, team places, safe sport and scholarships, with all the associations, rewards and careers, sport must be based on biological sex."

Discuss.

Difficult topic, but I'm going to have to side with Sharon and World Rugby on this one. I will say that I think Sharon Davis is brave to speak out considering how much anger this topic generates.

 

[DESTROYA]

Don't care for Rugby but I always sort of felt it was cheating putting a man vs woman in a physical competition. Sure there are exceptions but I have to agree with World Rugby association.

 

[Jezbollah]

Make it that for every mtf that plays womens sports, there should be a ftm who plays men's sports.

Id suggest this issue would rapidly disappear

 

[HoodWinked]

The funny thing is the most enlightened in woke ideology would be to remove all gender from sports.

But that would just result in male only sports.

There is no ideological consistency with these people what they actually want is a niche in unfair competition where they can dominate.

 

[GeorgPrime]

World Rugby trans guidelines divide opinion

World Rugby's decision to prevent transgender women from competing at the highest levels of the women's game has been criticised by LGBT charity Stonewall.

www.bbc.co.uk

LGBT rights campaigners have criticised World Rugby's decision to prevent transgender women from competing at the highest levels of the women's game.

LGBT charity Stonewall says it is "deeply disappointed" with the decision.

"The proposals were based on hypothetical data modelling that has little relevance to the questions of fairness and safety in rugby that the policy review sought to address," said Stonewall chief executive Nancy Kelley.

World Rugby's chairman, Bill Beaumont, said: "We recognise that the science continues to evolve and we are committed to regularly reviewing these guidelines, always seeking to be inclusive."

However, former Great Britain swimmer Sharron Davies, has welcomed World Rugby's decision.

The 57-year-old, a silver medallist at the 1980 Olympics, posted on social media: "If we, as a fair society, want equal opportunities for females to medals, team places, safe sport and scholarships, with all the associations, rewards and careers, sport must be based on biological sex."

Discuss.

Difficult topic, but I'm going to have to side with Sharon and World Rugby on this one. I will say that I think Sharon Davis is brave to speak out considering how much anger this topic generates.

Its easy.

Just make a league for Transgender Womand and Transgender Man and keep them away from Woman Teams or Man Teams.

 

[Paltheos]

Did a little bit of reading on this after this topic was posted.
It seems some organizations have set guidelines based on density of testosterone and/or required a declaration of gender x amount of time before competition (one figure I saw was 4 years). It looks like testosterone is the primary metric, at this point in time.

 

[Noboru Wataya]

My ex gf plays in a local amateur women’s rugby league and deals with broken bones and muscle tears regularly when facing off against girls three times the size of her. You throw a male athlete in against her she won’t be able to play again. Stonewall can get fucked trying to push women out of their own sport.

 

[Cockles & Whelks]

Common sense prevails. But they won't give up. They will try every attempt, year after year.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Unfortunately the zealots will continue to push and push in every sport until they exhaust their own goodwill with society. They're actually craving the chance to be bigger victims, By Any Means Necessary.

It's a mental health issue. We need to stop pandering to people who need mental help.

 

[Manstructiclops]

These cunts won't be happy until women start being killed/seriously injured.

 

[MrS]

The right decision imho.

 

[Foamy]

*applauds

 

[Kev Kev]

JUST START A TRANS LEAGUE

ffs why is this so hard

Unfortunately the zealots will continue to push and push in every sport until they exhaust their own goodwill with society. They're actually craving the chance to be bigger victims, By Any Means Necessary.

It's a mental health issue. We need to stop pandering to people who need mental help.

QFT

the scary part is they have been very effective at convincing the world that we all hate them and only ever make fun of them, which couldnt be further from the truth. these people have a mental health issue where they thrive off of attention, and it gives them rush and makes them feel good (or, in other words, they get high off of it), and then when things start to slow down and they start to lose their grip on society, they SQUUEZE really hard and get everyone up in arms again so they can keep the spotlight on them a little bit more.

Ailynn is a great example of someone whos proudly trans but doesnt throw it in everyones face or play the victim. there is definitely something to be said about people who hate other people for the choices they make in life (such as transitioning to a different gender) im not doubting that! but theres always a minoritty of ass holes. its been like that since the dawn of time.

so, i say start a trans league there is no gender. i doubt it will be long before that league is dominated by whoever has the most testosterone (probably males who have transitioned into females, naturally), BUT within that frame work they can start to shape how they wnat their league to be run, rules, regulations, whatever... but dont come into everyone elses house and start telling them how to run their home. you want special treatment? fine, then start your own league and treat each other however you want. but sport and competition is meant to be as fair as possible. if we start loosening on that then we lose the authentic spirit of sport and competition, and thats not fucking fair to the rest of us who WANT that.

 

[Birdo]

JUST START A TRANS LEAGUE

ffs why is this so hard

Because there aren't nearly as many transgender people are we are lead to believe.

They wouldn't have enough for even one or two teams.

 

[Kev Kev]

Because there aren't nearly as many transgender people are we are lead to believe.

They wouldn't have enough for even one or two teams.

ok then they make their own league with their own rules. smaller teams, a little different and done. its not exactly what they want but what they want isnt fair.

therefore, they have to start their own league and hope that it grows. im seeing more and more transgender people all over. who knows, in 10 years maybe they'll have enough for more teams and they can start their own thing.

 

[En Sama]

I am just giving my opinion here I am not condoning or condemning trans people in sports.

What is the more interesting thing for you to watch? Two teams of women or a team of trans women versus a team of women?
one of the problems with starting a trans league is that all the teams could theoretically consist entirely of trans people. What I would suggest is a three trans player limit in each team and then go from there.

First off, there isn't really that many trans women that want to play rugby so when you open this up you are running the risk of failed rugby players saying they are trans just so they still have a career.

I think there should still be a womens league but I don't know if rugby is that popular that it can split itself seventeen hundred different ways.

 

[Kev Kev]

What is the more interesting thing for you to watch? Two teams of women or a team of trans women versus a team of women?

its so obvious i dont know what people are even arguing about.

ITS.

NOT.

FAIR.

the women will lose to the trans-women likely every time. it would be so uninteresting (and again, un-fucking-fair) and not to mention humiliating for both sides (a trans gender team is not going to feel good about themselves for beating up on a bunch of women) that i dont even know why this is up for debate

 

[Yoboman]

Its a shitty situation all around with no winners

I support people going after the gender identity that they feel represents them better, that's their freedom. But putting male biology up against female in competitive sport is simply unfair and potentially dangerous.

It sucks because for a lot of these people, their sport is their life. I dont believe at all they are doing it for a competitive advantage, but the fact is that they get one that no born female will have. Females athletes are far behind even teenage males in physical ability

 

[cryptoadam]

Ya ok this "women" playing against other women, cmon man.

 

[Yoboman]

I'd also point out that for rugby codes across the world, safety and the danger of the sport is a constant PR nightmare. Many of these codes for example are changing to weight based divisions instead of age based because of the biological advantages some boys have growing up faster

Having been a late bloomer playing rugby league since I was 4 up until 14, I had to give up because I hit puberty late and my little baby body was getting smashed around by developing men

You just can't put men against women in this sport

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

Its easy.

Just make a league for Transgender Womand and Transgender Man and keep them away from Woman Teams or Man Teams.

Yup

 

[TrainedRage]

Go ahead and live your life. But lecturing people about being disappointed isn't gonna help anyone. Trans women are clearly fine with sacrifice, why cant they make one more and start a trans league?

 

[Xaero Gravity]

I love women. They’re the best thing ever created. If they want to be like men and come down to our level, that’s fine.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Seems like poor sportsmanship to me when people are demanding the "right" to play with such an unfair advantage. How self-centered do you have to be to not get that?

 

[MrFunSocks]

Letting male->female sports people compete is never going to be fair to naturally born females. Males have a different physical makeup that no amount of testosterone blockers can undo in a grown man. I don’t care what your testosterone levels are now - if you were a male for 25 years and you worked out and were 6 foot 4 and 120kg of muscle, you have a physical advantage over 100% of the natural women that can never be overcome.

Look at that trans weight lifter from NZ for example. Was a champion male lifter and only transitioned at like age 35. Was lifting 20kg+ more than the next highest competitor with ease. Only injury stopped “her“ from winning gold at the commonwealth games.

Brave and bold move from the rugby union, but the correct one. The sport has far too much potential for former males to cause massive damage to born females.

 

[SidViscous]

trans gender team is not going to feel good about themselves for beating up on a bunch of women

Unfortunately this isn't the case, they are often so deluded they feel like they won fair and square.

 

[cormack12]

Did a little bit of reading on this after this topic was posted.
It seems some organizations have set guidelines based on density of testosterone and/or required a declaration of gender x amount of time before competition (one figure I saw was 4 years). It looks like testosterone is the primary metric, at this point in time.

Which raises the question of can girly built men just take testosterone blockers for a few years and the compete.

Its easy.

Just make a league for Transgender Womand and Transgender Man and keep them away from Woman Teams or Man Teams.

This would appear to be something that makes sense. However, this whole thing is not about 'sense'. They would have to wait until their are enough people in the category with interest to found an association for the leagues. There isn't. Shoehorning them into other leagues is not fair. And the people who suffer are women.

I also don't buy into this some MtF trans are beaten by woman in the category. That speaks to how poor the MtF are at the sport/event if anything. Elite women athletes will beat Mr Joe Average's, but Mr Joe Average can level the field in certain cases with their biological advantages. I'm a shit runner, if I transitioned I'd expect to beat a lot of women in the running events, but I wouldn't be qualifying for the Olympics with the hardcore. That's what is misunderstood.

 

[Boss Mog]

There's nothing to discuss, if you want women's sports to be legitimate then men can't compete in them, period.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Unfortunately the zealots will continue to push and push in every sport until they exhaust their own goodwill with society. They're actually craving the chance to be bigger victims, By Any Means Necessary.

It's a mental health issue. We need to stop pandering to people who need mental help.

If you think you can "fix" those who feel the need to go through a transition and all its medical procedures with a xanax and a serotonin booster you are very, very wrong.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

If you think you can "fix" those who feel the need to go through a transition and all its medical procedures with a xanax and a serotonin booster you are very, very wrong.

I'm very aware that throwing pills and weekend therapy won't fix it. Pharmaceuticals and "therapy" have pushed some people into transitioning to address their lingering mental health problems.

 

[West Texas CEO]

There's nothing to discuss, if you want women's sports to be legitimate then men can't compete in them, period.

I would also add to make them wear lingerie.

 

[MayauMiao]

ok then they make their own league with their own rules. smaller teams, a little different and done. its not exactly what they want but what they want isnt fair.

therefore, they have to start their own league and hope that it grows. im seeing more and more transgender people all over. who knows, in 10 years maybe they'll have enough for more teams and they can start their own thing.

Then you have issue of mtf beating ftm, those who still have a penis but identify as women, etc.

 

[demigod]

Damn cheaters.

 

[Azurro]

Good, if they hadn't done this, soon every female sport will be dominated by women in men's bodies and biological women will be shut out from any professional sport, it's logical.

 

[belmarduk]

World Rugby is 100% right on this. The LGBT community needs to push back against the transgender extremists or there will be a huge backlash against all of us.

 

[YCoCg]

World Rugby is 100% right on this. The LGBT community needs to push back against the transgender extremists or there will be a huge backlash against all of us.

As Chapelle said, the LGB are fine, it's always the T fucking things up at the back.

 

[nush]

As Chapelle said, the LGB are fine, it's always the T fucking things up at the back.

Ts not even an actual sexuality either.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Um...transgender women competing against regular women does nothing but hurt the woke cause.

If I'm LeBron James, I'm identifying as a woman when I turn 40 and I'm averaging 100 points per game in the WNBA.

 

[p_xavier]

Motorcyclist Who Identifies As Bicyclist Sets Cycling World Record

NEW YORK, NY—In an inspiring story from the world of professional cycling, a motorcyclist who identifies as a bicyclist has crushed all the regular bicyclists, setting an unbelievable world record.

babylonbee.com

Just stating.

 

[Audiophile]

If they can drum up enough numbers to have a transwoman and transman league of their own, then great. If not, this is an example of an unfortunate reality.

Blind people don't get to become racing drivers. Really short people don't get to become basketball players. Sometimes you can't get everything you want.

This has nothing to do with transphobia or the like..


Also:

"The proposals were based on hypothetical data modelling that has little relevance to the questions of fairness and safety in rugby that the policy review sought to address," said Stonewall chief executive Nancy Kelley.

This clunky word salad seems to serve only to confuse and imply there is legitimate data to back up her position, particularly to those who have a confirmation bias and/or those who will not seek further insight into the science.

I have no idea what she's talking about, it is absolutely clear that biological males have clear advantages in physical disciplines.

 

[Elektro Demon]

I mean you are either male or female at birth. There ain't no third sex. That's what counts in sports.
In life, you can be a gay unicorn for all I care. But in sports, sorry to burst anyone's bubbles but you are the sex you were born with.
They should form their own lgbt league. That would be fine. But I do wonder who would watch that?
So, stop ruining an form your own league and see how many people wanna watch lgbt sports.

 

[Kev Kev]

Then you have issue of mtf beating ftm, those who still have a penis but identify as women, etc.

youre right!

so i guess theyll have to alter or make some of their own rules within their own leagues. like only so many mtf's per team.

but what they should not be aloud to do is come into already well established leagues with rules that have been largely the same, and change everything the way they see fit. thats fucking bull shit. start your own damn league and make your own rules. stop demanding the rest fo the world bend to your whim.

 

[LisaMariaMartin]

JUST START A TRANS LEAGUE

ffs why is this so hard

I'm guessing it's because they identify as women so they want to play in the womens league. Not giving them the right to play in womens leagues makes them feel like, well... not women.

Thats probably the whole crux of it. They want to feel included.

I do agree with the Rugby league in this case. The male body has obvious advantages and it would be extremely unfair towards the biological women.

Sucks for trans women but life is though for everyone.

 

[notseqi]

Make it that for every mtf that plays womens sports, there should be a ftm who plays men's sports.

Id suggest this issue would rapidly disappear

I'm gonna identify as a woman and gonna fuck shit up in multiple sports.
I wanna see their faces when a 6'4 260lb weightlifter comes at them.

 

[Ailynn]

Hey guys!

So, here's the deal. I decided to go full self-entitled narcissisist and enter as many female sporting events as possible!

I mean, sure...I didn't medically and surgically transition until I was 40 years old, but it does say Female on my driver's license...so it's all fair, right?

Even though I'm no where near as strong as I was before transitioning and I haven't trained whatsoever, I still feel like I'm gonna do a great job! Maybe because my bone structure and density hasn't changed? Some people might think that's an advantage, but that's just a bunch'a ol' gobbledygook I say!


So, yeah! I'm feelin' pumped up about this, GAF. Wish me luck!!

 

[notseqi]

Hey guys!

So, here's the deal. I decided to go full self-entitled narcissisist and enter as many female sporting events as possible!

I mean, sure...I didn't medically or surgically transition until I was 40 years old, but it does say Female on my driver's license...so it's all fair, right?

Even though I'm no where near as strong as I was before transitioning and I haven't trained whatsoever, I still feel like I'm gonna do a great job! Maybe because my bone structure and density hasn't changed? Some people might think that's an advantage, but that's a bunch'a gobbledygook I say!


So, yeah! I'm feelin' pumped up about this, GAF. Wish me luck!!

Cash me outside howbow dah

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

My old man played rugby at the top level, as did my grandad, if a woman transitioned to a man and took the field at pro level they're going home with broken bones or worse dead. You ain't taking on the likes of tree trunk Mal Meninga, the SAMOAN bulldozer or The Chiropractor and walking away. I'm 6'1" and from a rugby family of genetics (many played and coached NSW sides for decades) but there is no fucking way I'd play at the top level of Rugby. You'd get fucking killed out there.

The same goes in reverse, a man transitioning to play against women opens the doors for walking tanks to play against chicks. It's fucking stupid. There's case by case outliers of course where it could be possible and completely fine but changing that for rugby only opens the doors for ridiculous consequences that outweigh those small statistics/people's desire to cross play biological genders. No one wants deaths or life long injuries, there's already enough brain damage and other ill effects of sports such as Rugby.

 

[MrFunSocks]

To see just how ridiculous it would be to let transgender women play rugby with genetic women, think about this.

This is Sonny Bill Williams.

Dude is 6 foot 3 and 110kg. He was like 95kg when he was 18. I don't care how many testosterone blockers you take, they can't change the fact that he's 6 foot 3 and 110kg and built like a brick shithouse. Women just don't get that size and shape, it's not in their genetics.

This is Jason Taumalolo, one of the best forwards in rugby league. Imagine if he decided he was a woman now:

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

To see just how ridiculous it would be to let transgender women play rugby with genetic women, think about this.

Spot on mate.

Mal wasn't and given today's standards not the hardest hitting anymore but here he is coming back on the field after breaking his arm against the goalpost earlier. Mal goes on to smash through 3 defenders to score a try with his arm in a soft cast. Literally a veteran defender player getting bulldozed looks like a cartoon character after seeing stars circling his head, defenders literally bounce off him. I can't fathom what it would be like for one of these blokes to become a sheila and play against biological women. Fuck.


Jump to 44s if it doesn't start there.

How about some 150Kg players pushing 6'7". Walking tanks that literally take 3-5 defenders to put them down.

 

[Rien]

I am 10000% pro trans. If u feel trapped in a male/female body and decided to change that then more power to you.
everyone has the right to achieve happiness.

But I don’t think we should respect one more then the other.
It’s simply ridiculous to have biological male to compete with female in sports.
I know we as a human have the capability to bend the rules of nature a bit and adjust that environment. But we can’t bend the rules so far that it damages others.

make a trans league.. that would be most fair. This is not healthy.. it’s also disrespectful. Towards trans as well. They are human and don’t need to be pampered like this. Life is hard.