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Star Citizen Developer Cloud Imperium Games Imposes 7-Day Work Week

Draugoth

Gold Member
star-citizen-7-day-week.jpg

Cloud Imperium Games, the developer of Star Citizen, has mandated its developers to work seven days a week to meet deadlines for Citizencon on October 19th.
An internal email sent to staff yesterday states that the company needs to “double down over the next 18 days to make sure that once again we create an amazing experience for our community.” This includes finalizing patch 3.24.2 for Star Citizen and having a Squadron 42 demo showcase for Chapter 1.

The email later continues, “This means for the next two weekends we will be mandating extra time for all those working on deliverables for Citcon.”

Source

  • All staff are to be in the office on Friday, October 4th and Friday, October 11th (typically a work-at-home day)
  • All staff are to be in the office on Saturday, October 5th, and Saturday, October 12th (for these days, the company will provide breakfast and lunch, with staff receiving company TOIL (time off in lieu) which can be stored and used for time off at a later date)
  • All staff are to work on Sunday, October 6th, and Sunday, October 13th (this can be a work-at-home day, but the company “encourages” people to be in the office. For these days and for those in the office, the company will provide breakfast and lunch, with staff receiving company TOIL, which can be stored and used for time off at a later date)
 

llien

Member
The good news is that the project is still alive, I think. So, there's still hope...

I'm surprised they didn't run out of money yet.
 
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Astray

Member
Sounds like standard crunch rules. It's a short burst of extra work to meet a deadline. This doesn't even sound as bad as many other examples we can point to from past games.
If my boss tells me I have to work almost 3 weeks in a row with no weekends for some vacuous reason like delivering content for a con they could have just not had, then I'm reporting them to the government asap.
 
??? Just don’t do it. Like, lol. What are they gonna do, fire everybody? When they have this big looming deadline, the last thing they’re gonna want to do is lose key talent.

Just call their bluff.

The game’s hardly considered a real product, anyway. With no plans to ever actually be released.
 
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Imagine working there voluntarily. Not talking about CIG in particular but all entities in the industry that have practices like this. How desperate for work do you need to be? Aren't these guys and girls highly qualified for much better work that pays better and expects less?
 

rm082e

Member
If my boss tells me I have to work almost 3 weeks in a row with no weekends for some vacuous reason like delivering content for a con they could have just not had, then I'm reporting them to the government asap.

I get it, but you also didn't sign up for that. Crunch overtime is a common known thing in game development. People are made aware it's a possibility and they accept their roles with some warning that it's a possibility. It's one of the reasons the average time spent working in gaming is so much shorter than other fields - if you're lucky enough not to get laid off, you're probably going to burn out.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
If my boss tells me I have to work almost 3 weeks in a row with no weekends for some vacuous reason like delivering content for a con they could have just not had, then I'm reporting them to the government asap.
CitizenCon is not just a con (heh). It's where their money is made. It is where they show off all this shit that won't be in the game for 7 years (if they're lucky) but get all the simps and paypigs to open their wallets. It's like, imagine E3 but the demos decide whether or not your game gets funded. That's CitizenCon.
 

Trogdor1123

Member
??? Just don’t do it. Like, lol. What are they gonna do, fire everybody? When they have this big looming deadline, the last thing they’re gonna want to do is lose key talent.

Just call their bluff.

The game’s hardly considered a real product, anyway. With no plans to ever actually be released.
Hasn’t something like 10k programmers been laid off this year alone and even more last year? There are lots of highly talented people that would be more than willing to take their jobs.
 

Astray

Member
I get it, but you also didn't sign up for that. Crunch overtime is a common known thing in game development. People are made aware it's a possibility and they accept their roles with some warning that it's a possibility. It's one of the reasons the average time spent working in gaming is so much shorter than other fields - if you're lucky enough not to get laid off, you're probably going to burn out.
It shouldn't be common in any job. These people have families and lives too.

The gaming industry might be one of the shittiest ever to its employees tbh. Bosses crunch people and underpay them, and consumers tend to try and fuck with you personally if you say the wrong things on social media. It's a very tough job with very little reward.

CitizenCon is not just a con (heh). It's where their money is made. It is where they show off all this shit that won't be in the game for 7 years (if they're lucky) but get all the simps and paypigs to open their wallets. It's like, imagine E3 but the demos decide whether or not your game gets funded. That's CitizenCon.
Oh I'm fully aware of the insanely huge con that is Star Citizen.

Makes it even worse imo.
 

hemo memo

You can't die before your death
And? I've had to work consecutive weekends in the past as well. That's a part of a regular life for many people and many of them ain't sitting in a comfy office chair.
By choice, not by force. And you should get paid for it.
 

Tajaz2426

Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
Spent years working six months to a year at a time 7 days a week, 12-18 hours a day. When you’re doing field ops, deploying to places like Arizona, Thailand for Cobra Gold, The Philippines, El Centro, Okinawa, etc doing workups before deploying to combat zones you don’t get a lot of down time.

I don’t know how development works and how crunch works and to me they are pussies, but if you didn’t sign up for these kinds of things then I can see some backlash.
 
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ReBurn

Gold Member
I get it, but you also didn't sign up for that. Crunch overtime is a common known thing in game development. People are made aware it's a possibility and they accept their roles with some warning that it's a possibility. It's one of the reasons the average time spent working in gaming is so much shorter than other fields - if you're lucky enough not to get laid off, you're probably going to burn out.
It's not just game development. It's pretty much all software development. Sometimes the date is the date and it just can't move. This date was probably communicated months ago and everyone probably knew it. If game development goes like other development 70% of the work ends up happening in the last 30% of the time allotted. It's not always because of poor management. Sometimes it is. Many times it's because software developers underestimate the time requirements and complexity of the features they are designing. Sometimes it's because they slack off at the beginning of the development cycle.
 

rm082e

Member
Spent years working six months to a year at a time 7 days a week, 12-18 hours a day. When you’re doing field ops, deploying to places like Arizona, Thailand for Cobra Gold, The Philippines, El Centro, Okinawa, etc doing workups before deploying to combat zones you don’t get a lot of down time.

I don’t know how development works and how crunch works and to me they are pussies, but if you didn’t sign up for these kinds of things then I can see some backlash.

Looks like you were a Marine by your avatar. Question: Is it fair to say that level of work is mostly done by the younger members of the service? I never served, but I've been interested in military history. My impression is by the time you reach E8/O5 (10-15-ish years in), you're relegated more to desk work than field work. Am I way off there?
 
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Topher

Identifies as young
By choice, not by force. And you should get paid for it.

I've never had anyone tell me I "have to" work overtime. I've been told to have the job done by a certain date, typically one that I agreed to. If I can get it done working 40 hours a week......no problem.

They're not even getting paid for it lol

Where does it say they are not getting paid?
 
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StereoVsn

Gold Member
And? I've had to work consecutive weekends in the past as well. That's a part of a regular life for many people and many of them ain't sitting in a comfy office chair.
Usually though folks not sitting in the office chair get paid overtime.

Interestingly enough it’s the office workers who don’t get paid for the most part.

Either way unpaid crunch sucks but sometimes has to be done if for a relatively short sprint.
 

rm082e

Member
It's not just game development. It's pretty much all software development. Sometimes the date is the date and it just can't move. This date was probably communicated months ago and everyone probably knew it. If game development goes like other development 70% of the work ends up happening in the last 30% of the time allotted. It's not always because of poor management. Sometimes it is. Many times it's because software developers underestimate the time requirements and complexity of the features they are designing. Sometimes it's because they slack off at the beginning of the development cycle.

I'm a manager over a small software dev team. We are lucky enough to work on an agile system and almost never get hard deadlines. If things go over time, I've been able to set expectations with my exec team and they're almost always okay with it. We've only had one project in the last few years where I had to ask my team to work OT to get a project done by a deadline.

Because it's so infrequent and I have a great relationship with the team, they've pulled together and got it done without any drama or issues. I'm well aware if I were working at a bigger company where we were delivering projects for external clients instead of our internal app, it would be very different.
 

StereoVsn

Gold Member
I've never had anyone tell me I "have to" work overtime. I've been told to have the job done by a certain date, typically one that I agreed to. If I can get it done working 40 hours a week......no problem.



Where does it say they are not getting paid?
Exempt employees (most white collar workers) don’t get paid overtime in vast majority of cases.

Now, if folks are hourly contractors it’s a different question.
 

Comandr

Member
From two CIG employees:

Everything I post below is my own opinion. Nothing here is vetted or reflects company policy. This is 100% my own, personal view.

I obviously can't say too much here for obvious reasons but I can tell you flat out that after working in the Games Industry going on 18 years, CIG is by far and away the best place I've ever worked. Easily.

Speaking from the UK studio's perspective we have incredibly understanding management, what I would consider a notably above average wage for the GI and a slew of perks. We have fantastic support when it comes to both physical health and mental health, a very fair PTO scheme, flexible working hours and if everything keeps going the way it's going down the line when we RTO, we should have very fair WFH systems put in place wherever possible. They also let us develop, with a very proud 'tradition' of training and promoting internally. Very early on in my career I was asked where I wanted to go, within 6 months I was on the road to exactly that, with resources provided that would help me get there. I'm now one step short of that dream goal after coming from the very bottom of a totally different ladder.

I've made mistakes and screwed up work plenty. I've wasted days of my own time chasing dead ends. We all understand that in this industry this happens and is par for the course. In those moments where I've made a mistake, I've been treated more than fairly. (Though I'd say a big part of this is I probably grew up since my first GI jobs and can now hold my hand up and say 'Yeah I screwed up' rather than arguing or coming up with excuses. A big lesson to learn in your professional life that one, and nothing to do with CIG I suppose, even though they're great!)

Crunch isn't something we deal with very often, but in an environment where we have quarterly releases it can sometimes feel a bit hectic. On the rare occasions we do need to do OT we have a system in place where you can't be unfairly singled out. You're also fed from the local take-outs when this happens so that was always nice. On site food and drink is provided for free for the most part and we're allowed to interact with backers either on studio tours or on the net, in social media or like this!

For those who know me on twitter and other places you've probably seen I spend a lot of time in VRChat and I frequently hang out with, interact with and play with backers in this game and others. No other company I've been in would allow this.

CIG treat us like trustworthy adults because of that I respect the fairly obvious rules we have in place when it comes to a project like this. So many studios in the UK treat you like a criminal in waiting. CIG lets us be ourselves in and out of work, and those of us who love this project are allowed to continue loving it as a backer, just like you.

CIG gave me opportunities no one else ever did. Within a year of working at the company I was attending our Manchester CitCon event, helping the stage performance and reveal of the Carrack. Within that first year I found myself in the rehearsal room of the convention hall having a conversation with the big CR himself. I'm still not even sure who was in charge when I worked at <big publisher> and they would have NEVER let someone so new to the company have that opportunity. CIG let me grow.

While you have me, I also just want to say that I was one of the CIG guys who was very outspoken about the Kotaku article a while back (in fact I'd go on to say that most of their coverage of this game is p*ss poor.) Don't get me started on that, but I can promise you CIG have never told us what we can and can't think or say about these events publicly or otherwise. We're free to say what we feel and speak we did. We all know how that went down in the end.

Obviously everything you've seen here is from someone very happy to work at CIG. Someone who was a backer before an employee and someone very passionate about the project. I've no doubt not everyone feels the same, but I have never encountered anyone yet who wasn't happy working there.

Sorry for the wall of text. I've surely missed something so if you have questions, ask away and I'll answer where I can. :)

***EDIT***A few people have responded mulling over the idea of applying and being unsure if they should. Rather than reply to each one by one, I'll add this little bit here.

CIG is a fantastic place to apply for your first job in the industry or if you're looking for a career change. You can do far far worse. Consider what motivates you, why do you get out of bed in the morning? What keeps you getting out of bed 4 years later? I gave up my last job and returned to the Games Industry because I just couldn't stomach the idea of working on Marketing Automation Tools anymore. I realised that money wasn't a motivator for me and working on my biggest passions (gaming) was far better. I'm still living the bachelor life and have no dependants, so for me, this was an easy choice.

Lastly, every studio has slightly different requirements for their roles. The worst you'll hear back is no, so why not go for it if its' something you want.

***

I can also vouch for CIG as an employer. I work in the talent team so I mix with quite a lot of existing and new staff.

From my personal experience it's without a doubt the best employer I have worked for and I do see myself with the business long term.

I also work directly with the Dev team, I can't speak for them personally but yes I believe the general feeling amongst the staff is that we are lucky to work here.


***

It sounds to me like they are both pretty happy with their work; you take the good with the bad. That’s how life works.
 

StereoVsn

Gold Member
Hasn’t something like 10k programmers been laid off this year alone and even more last year? There are lots of highly talented people that would be more than willing to take their jobs.
More like 150-200K over 2023 and so far in 2024. Not talking g game dev but in general.
 

Topher

Identifies as young
Exempt employees (most white collar workers) don’t get paid overtime in vast majority of cases.

Now, if folks are hourly contractors it’s a different question.

Tech folks are not really blue or white collar, imo. Kind of a gray area. Highly skilled people, but not management, executives, etc. Where I work, I get paid for OT,but yeah, that isn't always the case.
 
Ah....we call it comp time where I work.

Do they give you time and half at least? If time off is the compensation then where I am the standard is usually Saturdays gives you time and half and Sundays gives you double.

Doesn't even sound like they're getting that here.
 

Tajaz2426

Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
Looks like you were a Marine by your avatar. Question: Is it fair to say that level of work is mostly done by the younger members of the service? I never served, but I've been interested in military history. My impression is by the time you reach E8/O5 (10-15-ish years in), you're relegated more to desk work than field work. Am I way off there?

It is really dependent on your MOS which is your job. The E-1 to E-3 are the backbreakers of the Corps. It will usually be a LAnce Corporal in a fire team that carries the automatic weapons which is the 249 or the 240, the the carriers, pods, link ammo pods, etc. They will carry the Dragon system or AT4s, extra pods for those, etc. They will get most of the crappy jobs like that, etc. The E-4 and E-5s in the Corps are the actual backbone, the lead their fire teams and make the life and death decision calls on the ground and put their teams in areas of advantage and make those decisions that will affect their men. Once you hit Staff Sergeant and up on the enlisted side you are running platoon management. You’re making sure your guys are full mission capable on both the green side training and blue side which is being able to deploy medically.

On the Officer side, your 0-3 and lower will be in the field commanding their Marines which is passing down what they expect on the field of battle, their generalized plan of attack that will be passed to the Gunnery Sgt or SSgt and denominated down the the men and then the E-5s and below will make change calls on the ground depending on billets beans and bandages which is no but a patrol order that our recon or recon planes have given us telling us where the enemy is, how much supplies they have, ammunition, food for their military, supply routes, if they have medics with them, etc.

That is about a quick as I can break it down but my assumption is it works just like the real world. There is more detail on each subgroup that needs to be broken down for clarity. If you would like you can PM me and I can explain things a little more in depth.

I can also say once I picked up E-8 before retirement I spend a lot of time wondering why the hell this ranked existed. I felt worthless.
 
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