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[Jinzo Prime]

just remake/remaster or reuse assets constantly with worse graphics and only use 4-5 IP's and make games super short with some replay value. Works for Nintendo and nobody cares, lets do it for all of them.

It also seems to work for FromSoft, Capcom, and Sega, so why not? All the studios who reuse and recycle smartly are doing great right now.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Make games fun like palword.

 

[feynoob]

I guess you are blind. Not like there is 2m players there.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Just as long as you not charging 70 bucks for a game that’s under 10 hours (I won’t buy anything less than 15).

 

[bitbydeath]

I seem to recall reading spider man 2 cost $315million to develop. I have no idea how.

That’s because it didn’t.

 

[bitbydeath]

They say this, meanwhile publishers are making record profits…

 

[ProtoByte]

They say this, meanwhile publishers are making record profits…

The sustainability argument always depends on what angle you're looking at it from.

Keeping record numbers employed all the time in this industry? Lol, that was never the case before and won't be the case no matter what they do.

Keeping the cash flows positive? Keeping the workforce 110% comfortable? Keeping the players happy?

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Yeah, you could make some games shorter - but I wouldn't base it on achievement completion or whatever backend metrics they have. I'm sure there are many such games with 20-30% completion rates or whatever, but that doesn't mean we need games that equate to that size relatively speaking. I think short and long games of all kinds have their places, especially when price point/budget/etc is a consideration.

That’s his point, whereas now all games are bloated 30hrs+ affairs.

 

[March Climber]

I have never understood this rebuttal. Palworld is not a free to play MMO that needs players.

With their sales numbers, the developers have already won. More than won.

 

[ProtoByte]

just remake/remaster or reuse assets constantly with worse graphics and only use 4-5 IP's and make games super short with some replay value. Works for Nintendo and nobody cares, lets do it for all of them.

Playstation can't make 2 Horizon games without people claiming the entire gen is creatively bankrupt. What works for Nintendo won't work for anyone else.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

He's right with everything.

 

[MrRenegade]

[AAnderson sends his regards]

 

[Kazdane]

Shorter games is something that I'd welcome. It feels like nowadays pretty much everything has to be a 100-hour epic. Back then, a 40-60 hour game was long because most were what, 15-25 hours long?
Now it's gotten so bad in this regard, that I see a game that is around 40 hours long and I go "oh, that's short!". When it really isn't. Hellblade 2 is short. Sub 10-hour games are short. I don't mind playing 100 hour-long games... as long as that's not the norm and most games releasing are shorter.

 

[ProtoByte]

He's right with everything.

He's clearly not.

People might not finish long games, but they definitely don't buy short ones.

Visual development does actually matter because visuals are the first thing that catch attention and partially sell games. You see what happens when something does have low fidelity or a disappointing art style. People pay lip service to "I'm okay with PS3 graphics", and it might work for Nintendo with their family-friendly industry-old IP, Minecraft and F2P trash like Fortnite, but in practice for most, it doesn't work.

Reasonable deadlines are one thing, but using sports game mass production factories is a big red flag. Lol

 

[SportsFan581]

The weird thing is, I don't necessarily think game length has much to do with it. If a dev builds a fun loop that is interesting, you can increase the time it takes for completion just by having more enemy encounters, etc.

 

[eerik9000]

Just a reminder, back in 2019, when he was still working for Sony, he was rather happy that PlayStation was making fewer, bigger, more expensive games than before. He's part of the problem. Fuck off, Shawn.

 

[tmlDan]

Playstation can't make 2 Horizon games without people claiming the entire gen is creatively bankrupt. What works for Nintendo won't work for anyone else.

I know lol i was being sarcastic, people are so obsessed with the millions of remakes and the same few IP's on switch its insane to me. Imagine Sony decided to make Uncharted soccer or Uncharted Golf, or Uncharted Party lol

 

[Shut0wen]

Spider-Man 2 anyone? Rushed fucking plot, reused assets and more glitches than either Miles Morales or SM1. "No crunch" (they still actually crunched), efficient Insomniac, everyone!

Obviously it doesn't work the same way for single player, but Layden's peers are always taking about how much engagement matters. The games staying on the charts for years on end and making the salivating money get played for thousands of hours.

When you do look at single player though, there's also the fact that the biggest breakout critical and financial hits over the last generation are games that are either open world, went open world, or set franchise highs for game length. The Witcher 3, Persona 5, FF15, Elden Ring, Assassin's Creed Valhalla, Monster Hunter World, God Of War '18, Horizon Zero Dawn, Hogwarts Legacy, Baldur's Gate 3 etc.

People will play and, more importantly, pay for long games they enjoy. If your game has that low a completion rate, it's probably not great.

Like, when he says this:


Does he realise that more people played and completed TLOU2 and Uncharted 4 than The Order 1886? At least, by available data, they were similar? And forget about sales. So when do you stop reducing length?

Obviously the next Naughty Dog game shouldn't be 50 or even 40 hours long to complete, but come on dude

Spider man 2 is literally down to insomia releasing 3 titles in the space of 5 years, miles, rachet then spiderman 2 and spidey 2 suffered because of it

 

[mdkirby]

That’s because it didn’t.

had me doubting it, so did a search, this is from their internal documents from the insomniac hack...and yeah looks like somehow SM3 is expected to cost even more at a little shy of 400mil, their projected profit for SM3 feels wildly optimistic to me too.