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Presidential Polls Were Off the Mark Because of Voter Supression

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Boney

Banned
The Best Democracy Money Can Buy. New Documentary Film by Journalist Greg Pallast.

Follow me as I bust the New Klux Klan – the billionaire bandits that are behind a scheme to purge one million voters of color on election day.

Boo!!! The Hysteria Factory is in full effect. Trump says a million "aliens" are swimming the Rio Grande to vote for Hillary. Fox News —even NPR— are peddling stories about dead voters, ghost voters, double voters and other berserk claims of fraudulent voting. But it’s just the cover to STEAL THIS ELECTION, to swipe the Senate.

Watch the Hysteria Factory Clip from the Movie
https://youtu.be/Ye-3PmxzbWY

With the help of Willie Nelson, Rosario Dawson, and detectives Ice-T and Richard Belzer, I track down the secret billionaires behind Donald Trump and the guys who are gaming our voter rolls and funding this voter fraud Hysteria Factory.

Check out the 4 minute summary of his new documentary film. https://vimeo.com/180376253

http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/

Before a single vote was cast, the election was fixed by GOP and Trump operatives.

Starting in 2013 – just as the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act – a coterie of Trump operatives, under the direction of Kris Kobach, Kansas Secretary of State, created a system to purge 1.1 million Americans of color from the voter rolls of GOP–controlled states.

The system, called Crosscheck, is detailed in my Rolling Stone report,
“The GOP’s Stealth War on Voters,” 8/24/2016.

Crosscheck in action:
Trump victory margin in Michigan: 13,107
Michigan Crosscheck purge list: 449,922

Trump victory margin in Arizona: 85,257
Arizona Crosscheck purge list: 270,824

Trump victory margin in North Carolina: 177,008
North Carolina Crosscheck purge list: 589,393

On Tuesday, we saw Crosscheck elect a Republican Senate and as President, Donald Trump. The electoral putsch was aided by nine other methods of attacking the right to vote of Black, Latino and Asian-American voters, methods detailed in my book and film, including “Caging,” “purging,” blocking legitimate registrations, and wrongly shunting millions to “provisional” ballots that will never be counted.

Trump signaled the use of “Crosscheck” when he claimed the election is “rigged” because “people are voting many, many times.” His operative Kobach, who also advised Trump on building a wall on the southern border, devised a list of 7.2 million “potential” double voters—1.1 million of which were removed from the voter rolls by Tuesday. The list is loaded overwhelmingly with voters of color and the poor.

[...]


For example, in the swing state of North Carolina, it was reported that 6,700 Black folk lost their registrations because their registrations had been challenged by a group called Voter Integrity Project (VIP). VIP sent letters to households in Black communities “do not forward.” If the voter had moved within the same building, or somehow did not get their mail (e.g. if their name was not on a mail box), they were challenged as “ghost” voters. GOP voting officials happily complied with VIP with instant cancellation of registrations.

The 6,700 identified in two counties were returned to the rolls through a lawsuit. However, there was not one mention in the press that VIP was also behind Crosscheck in North Carolina; nor that its leader, Col. Jay Delancy, whom I’ve tracked for years has previously used this vote thievery, known as “caging,” for years. Doubtless the caging game was wider and deeper than reported. And by the way, caging, as my Rolling Stone co-author, attorney Robert F. Kennedy Jr., tells me, is “a felony, it’s illegal, and punishable by high fines and even jail time.”

There is still much investigation to do. For example, there are millions of “provisional” ballots, “spoiled” (invalidated) ballots and ballots rejected from the approximately 30 million mailed in. Unlike reporting in Britain, US media does not report the ballots that are rejected and tossed out—because, after all, as Joe Biden says, “Our elections are the envy of the world.” Only in Kazakhstan, Joe.

While there is a great deal of work to do, much documentation still to analyze, we’ll have to pry it from partisan voting chiefs who stamp the scrub lists, Crosscheck lists and ballot records, “confidential.”

But, the evidence already in our hands makes me sadly confident in saying, Jim Crow, not the voters, elected Mr. Trump.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Before the election, I'd read that in areas previously under the protection of the Voting Rights Act due to histories of racism - before SCOTUS gutted it - there were over 800 fewer polling places in 2016 than in 2012.

It's the elephant in the room in this election, and probably why Obama is turning to organizing after his presidency.
 

snacknuts

we all knew her
One of the many upsetting tweets I saw on election night:
UwzylQV.png
 

Madness

Member
Doubtful. This makes it seem like Trump is some supergenius and found a way to rig thr system, which I can say the Republicans probably do have it rigged but come on. It is easy to scapegoat and say it was voter suppression when the simplest answer is, a lot of white voters lied to pollsters about who they would vote for, and a lot of single issue voters truly ignored all the bad things Trump said because he is strong on the one issue they like. Why is it so hard for everyone to accept that the US is still a very racist country? It was founded as a racist country, developed as a racist country, and remains one to this day. The majority of white women went for Trump when everyone thought Hillary had the woman vote locked up. Why?

People are saying that until the results came in, no one knew anything, Hillary was confident she would win and Trump was increasingly striking a tone that he was going to lose.
 

Gutek

Member
I would like to add that I strongly suspect that the forecast industry had a very, very heavy hand in depressing the vote as well.

If you hear nothing but "Hillary will win this with 99% certainty" for months, people will be less inclined to go out and vote.
 
Can this explain the swing in the under $30K crowd toward Trump by 16 points in exit polls? i.e. Urban/PoC vote repressed and rural/White vote coming out more than usual?
 

Jeels

Member
Crosscheck in action:
Trump victory margin in Michigan: 13,107
Michigan Crosscheck purge list: 449,922

Trump victory margin in Arizona: 85,257
Arizona Crosscheck purge list: 270,824

Trump victory margin in North Carolina: 177,008
North Carolina Crosscheck purge list: 589,393

Sigh, these are such small numbers it is so depressing. We are really talking about the margins of margins here and it's completely tanked America. :/
 

PBY

Banned
Doubtful. This makes it seem like Trump is some supergenius and found a way to rig thr system, which I can say the Republicans probably do have it rigged but come on. It is easy to scapegoat and say it was voter suppression when the simplest answer is, a lot of white voters lied to pollsters about who they would vote for, and a lot of single issue voters truly ignored all the bad things Trump said because he is strong on the one issue they like. Why is it so hard for everyone to accept that the US is still a very racist country? It was founded as a racist country, developed as a racist country, and remains one to this day. The majority of white women went for Trump when everyone thought Hillary had the woman vote locked up. Why?

People are saying that until the results came in, no one knew anything, Hillary was confident she would win and Trump was increasingly striking a tone that he was going to lose.

Voter suppression is racist though, it can be one and the same.
 

Blader

Member
How much can a GOTV operation overturn voter suppression like this? Can't/shouldn't campaigns work to make voters are registered in the event they've been removed from voter rolls like this?
 
How much can a GOTV operation overturn voter suppression like this? Can't/shouldn't campaigns work to make voters are registered in the event they've been removed from voter rolls like this?

No GOTV efforts would ever help people needing to wait hours in line to vote. Most people do not have the time to do that. More people going to the polls would just make the situation of long lines worse.
 
Crosscheck in action:
Trump victory margin in Michigan: 13,107
Michigan Crosscheck purge list: 449,922

Trump victory margin in Arizona: 85,257
Arizona Crosscheck purge list: 270,824

Trump victory margin in North Carolina: 177,008
North Carolina Crosscheck purge list: 589,393

This seems so abhorrent that I want to say the numbers are misleading but I have no knowledge in the matter.
 
Voter suppression is just something Republicans do, it would have happened even if Trump wasn't the nominee.

Until it is fixed (which is never) democrats will need to win by such margins that would theoratically give them the super majority but due to suppression they would just barely win.

How Obama didn't address this shit is a shame.
 
How much can a GOTV operation overturn voter suppression like this? Can't/shouldn't campaigns work to make voters are registered in the event they've been removed from voter rolls like this?
Its insanely difficult, many times people don't even know they've been removed until they go and try to vote. Plus massive cuts in the number of polling places doesn't help.


If those numbers for NC, MI, and AZ are accurate, then if Hillary won those states she'd be at 274 EC. Her winning the popular vote by well over a million (and climbing), plus this voter suppression is casus belli if I've ever seen it.
 
Its insanely difficult, many times people don't even know they've been removed until they go and try to vote. Plus massive cuts in the number of polling places doesn't help.


If those numbers for NC, MI, and AZ are accurate, then if Hillary won those states she'd be at 274 EC. Her winning the popular vote by well over a million (and climbing), plus this voter suppression is casus belli if I've ever seen it.

The EC voting for Trump and not accounting for this bullshit will be even more criminal.

Trump already told you the election was being rigged. None of you listened.

I said it before, he probably did cheat. The dude projects so much that with how often he claimed the system was rigged I would be shocked if he didn't cheat.
 
Over half a million people in North Carolina? If those are all legit voters being blocked from voting we would have heard a serious uproar. There are multiple Democrat elected officials in the state legislature there would have been notified.
 
Voter suppression is just something Republicans do, it would have happened even if Trump wasn't the nominee.

Until it is fixed (which is never) democrats will need to win by such margins that would theoratically give them the super majority but due to suppression they would just barely win.

How Obama didn't address this shit is a shame.

He didn't address it because voting is a state controlled issue, and the only way to fix that would have been an act of Congress (which is/was Republican controlled). The states are the ones that create the Voter ID laws and close polling places.
 

kirblar

Member
Over half a million people in North Carolina? If those are all legit voters being blocked from voting we would have heard a serious uproar. There are multiple Democrat elected officials in the state legislature there would have been notified.
There has been an uproar over the last 8 years. Problem is the SC made challenges powerless.
 

Future

Member
Every campaign someone tries to do some shady shit to win. I still blame Clinton and liberals for the loss. It shouldn't have been close even with these tactics
 

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
Doubtful. This makes it seem like Trump is some supergenius and found a way to rig thr system, which I can say the Republicans probably do have it rigged but come on. It is easy to scapegoat and say it was voter suppression when the simplest answer is, a lot of white voters lied to pollsters about who they would vote for, and a lot of single issue voters truly ignored all the bad things Trump said because he is strong on the one issue they like. Why is it so hard for everyone to accept that the US is still a very racist country? It was founded as a racist country, developed as a racist country, and remains one to this day. The majority of white women went for Trump when everyone thought Hillary had the woman vote locked up. Why?

People are saying that until the results came in, no one knew anything, Hillary was confident she would win and Trump was increasingly striking a tone that he was going to lose.
First, this is not claiming that Trump is the mastermind, but rather that he benefitted from ongoing Republican efforts to suppress the vote, which is well documented from previous elections as well. Second, yes, there's probably a sizable group of people who lied to pollsters about their Trump support as well as "single-issue voters" who factor in here; but voter suppression, esp. if it's provable to have occurred at this scale, would also be significant factor. Third, PBY already said, voter suppression is pretty racist, so its hardly a denial of tha.
 
There has been an uproar.

I didn't see anything pointing to hundreds of thousands of people being blocked from voting. I mean only 2.5 million votes were cast in North Carolina. That's 25% of the entire voting base being suppressed. That is a massive number.
 
This kind of thing fills me with violent rage. I really need to find an outlet more fulfilling that simply volunteering and voting come election time.
 

Jeffrey

Member
So what options are there? from the GOP stand point, its easier to just suppress minority votes than getting them to like them.

seems even less likely now that the republicans own the country.
 
err how about half the electorate that didn't bother to vote?

Why do people keep bringing this up? You realize we've never had significant voter turnout in US elections. Even the historic 2008 election had around 37% of people not voting versus this one where it was 44%
 

RDreamer

Member
Voter suppression is actually another reason the Electoral College should go. With the EC, voter suppression makes sense. Suppress those you don't like to win, and your power overall isn't affected. If we had a popular vote for president then if states truly wanted their interests represented in government they would have to encourage voting.

For example, if Oregon has mail in voting and if eventually 70% of their citizens start voting then guess what? Oregon would have more say in the presidency than Wisconsin if Wisconsin kept suppressing its vote.
 
People shouldn't have to wait 5 hours in line to vote, especially in places that offer early voting. if people want change in these areas they need to start with local officials and governors. These GOP scum actually celebrated successfully reducing turnout.
 
Doubtful. This makes it seem like Trump is some supergenius and found a way to rig thr system, which I can say the Republicans probably do have it rigged but come on. It is easy to scapegoat and say it was voter suppression when the simplest answer is, a lot of white voters lied to pollsters about who they would vote for, and a lot of single issue voters truly ignored all the bad things Trump said because he is strong on the one issue they like. Why is it so hard for everyone to accept that the US is still a very racist country? It was founded as a racist country, developed as a racist country, and remains one to this day. The majority of white women went for Trump when everyone thought Hillary had the woman vote locked up. Why?

People are saying that until the results came in, no one knew anything, Hillary was confident she would win and Trump was increasingly striking a tone that he was going to lose.
Voter suppression tactics are a result of the racism you think we don't see when we're talking about voter suppression. (???)
 

Blader

Member
Over half a million people in North Carolina? If those are all legit voters being blocked from voting we would have heard a serious uproar. There are multiple Democrat elected officials in the state legislature there would have been notified.

North Carolina GOP own the governor's office, the state legislature, and the state Supreme Court. There is no avenue for recourse over voter suppression and the state GOP even bragged about how African-American turnout in NC was down this year.
 
I think this will just get even worst as Bernie said on the Late Show.

If it does America needs to get off its lazy ass and stage mass civil demonstrations.

Edit: And thankfully Roy Cooper won the governors seat in NC. If gains can be made in the legislature that state can easily be flipped blue going forward.
 
We need to start winning state governorships and more state legislatures to undo this.

Luckily we got the Governors spot in NC. Hopefully he can undo some of the damage.
 

RDreamer

Member
So what options are there? from the GOP stand point, its easier to just suppress minority votes than getting them to like them.

seems even less likely now that the republicans own the country.

The only option was the court system/supreme court, I think, and now that's fucked, so...
 

wildfire

Banned
Before the election, I'd read that in areas previously under the protection of the Voting Rights Act due to histories of racism - before SCOTUS gutted it - there were over 800 fewer polling places in 2016 than in 2012.

It's the elephant in the room in this election, and probably why Obama is turning to organizing after his presidency.

Obama was already planning on organizing but it was explicitly to help organize the Dems to take back the house. He might change course to this problem but we won't know until he makes his revised if any intentions clear.

Anyway I'll be watching this and I hope they actually sampled these purged people to see if they were likely voters. A lot of people registered still don't vote.
 
Those margins of victory and purged numbers are horrifying.




North Carolina GOP own the governor's office, the state legislature, and the state Supreme Court. There is no avenue for recourse over voter suppression and the state GOP even bragged about how African-American turnout in NC was down this year.

Luckily it looks the the Dems will squeak by and win the governors mansion and get the NC Supreme Court. We need the same in other states to help against this.
 
So what options are there? from the GOP stand point, its easier to just suppress minority votes than getting them to like them.

seems even less likely now that the republicans own the country.

And that's what I'm so terrified of.

The GOP only won the popular vote once in the past 24 years. They know minorities aren't their friends. So instead of actually appealing to us they're decided to make it harder for us to vote and coast on EC and local elections. And it's only going to get worse since now they have total control and can just steamroll turnout in any areas that they consider "problematic".

Even before the election, it was obvious what the general gameplan was. We have midterms in two years people, vote so we can actually mitigate this bullshit going into 2020.
 
Is it possible that this could result in court cases at the state level?

Seriously, this is gross and someone needs to be held accountable.
 

Ashes

Banned
Why do people keep bringing this up? You realize we've never had significant voter turnout in US elections. Even the historic 2008 election had around 37% of people not voting versus this one where it was 44%

Because, to me, it's relevant in a discussion about vote rigging.
 

Toxi

Banned
I'm this is a factor but Hillary's campaign fucking up is the #1 reason why the polls were off.
That doesn't even make sense. The polls wouldn't be inaccurate because Clinton's campaign fucked up. Losing the election doesn't mean you mess up the polls.

The polls could be off because of bad sampling, bad weighting, voter suppression, new situations that pollsters were not able to accurately grok (record number of undecided voters in decades)...
 
Luckily it looks the the Dems will squeak by and win the governors mansion and get the NC Supreme Court. We need the same in other states to help against this.
...but the Republicans have a veto-proof majority in the state legislature and are planning to pack the court to avoid the Supreme Court forcing them to redistrict and roll back their insane gerrymandering, so... NC is still fucked.
 

ShyMel

Member
As somebody who lives in North Carolina, I am unfortunately not surprised. I know that the early voting places in my nearby areas had some odd schedules. Some of them were not open during all of early voting, mainly the ones in the city.
 
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