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[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Or you know, maybe they are trying to make her look closer to Ellies age/figure.

The girl is 21 years old in real life.Ellie in the game is 19. Are you telling me the made her tits smaller and nose smaller because of 2 years difference? Man thats probably the most SJW reply back on this topic

 

[stickkidsam]

It's totally on topic. I get what you're saying, but again language always evolves. It's been that way for 1,000s of years. So you can keep using the wrong pronouns all you want, but then you shouldn't get mad when people call you out on that. Plus it shows you don't care about Trans people (if this is how you really feel).

This shit right here is everything wrong with the situation at hand.

"You don't agree with my language, therefore you don't care about >insert group< people"

That holier than thou attitude is what people are upset about and it uses people's better nature as a weapon against them. You can make whatever game you want. Don't shame others for enjoying traditional fantasies of masculine or feminine power. As you have been shown, there are plenty of fantastic and beloved female characters in gaming and other media. Hiding behind representation as an argument is weak because OF COURSE a majority of characters will be male if the majority of creators and players are also male. Creation is partly an injection of the ego. You don't get to claim that sexuality/gender/race shouldn't matter to people and then be upset that there isn't equity in diversity.

So why would people be bothered by more female characters? Could it be something beyond the gender or sexuality of the character? Something to do with the context in which it is being created? Perhaps people are not upset with the gender or sexuality, but rather the message they feel the story is attempting to convey.

When it comes to main characters, males absolutely dominate. I'm not saying it's bad but pretending it's not an incredibly obvious fact is sill.

Advanced search

www.imdb.com

I don't think even 10% of the leads are female.

Why does that matter?

 

[reconminicon]

Good way to offend real women.

 

[Guardian's Light]

I usually hate forced characters, but I admit I loved Nadine

I'd have loved to play as her too
Or imagine her as a playable, very violent character a la Joel in tlou 2 lol

 

[yeeeeeezy]

OK genuine question - how much of the outrage is from the actual plot and how much of it is from the inclusion of more members of the lgbt community? I don't know any of the spoilers but I keep seeing trans memes and bashing TLOU 2 for going woke. Please no spoilers

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

OK genuine question - how much of the outrage is from the actual plot and how much of it is from the inclusion of more members of the lgbt community? I don't know any of the spoilers but I keep seeing trans memes and bashing TLOU 2 for going woke. Please no spoilers

I think its both equally. People say oh as if all of a sudden they went with this LGBT politics. Look, we had Billy and Ellie in the DLC where they implemented these LGBT moments. I would say they were done masterfully because it was tasteful, they represented who they wanted to represent and got their point across. HOWEVER the story was still the main focsu, it was like oh ok she is lesbian/bisexual but how is she going to survive with Joel. It was a character build up and you moven on.

And now we came to a point where Niel went full SJW politics, where especially if you read the spoilers...its a womens world, reduction of breast sizes, they purposly are making average dyke looking females because now if you put a good looking girl, its a bad role model to the ugly ones out there? Its ridiculous, the game now revolves mostly around that instead of the plot. I dont give a shit how many LGBT they want to put in the game, but dont pepper it all over the game because those are your political views and you want to push in your agenda. Instead of being a game where "oh this gay character did this and that, it became "this and that happened but let us tell you, she is gay and proud and she is the strongest women out there and fuck men and fuck good looking people because thats sexualization. You get the idea.

 

[Lethal01]

This shit right here is everything wrong with the situation at hand.

"You don't agree with my language, therefore you don't care about >insert group< people"

That holier than thou attitude is what people are upset about and it uses people's better nature as a weapon against them. You can make whatever game you want. Don't shame others for enjoying traditional fantasies of masculine or feminine power. As you have been shown, there are plenty of fantastic and beloved female characters in gaming and other media. Hiding behind representation as an argument is weak because OF COURSE a majority of characters will be male if the majority of creators and players are also male. Creation is partly an injection of the ego. You don't get to claim that sexuality/gender/race shouldn't matter to people and then be upset that there isn't equity in diversity.

So why would people be bothered by more female characters? Could it be something beyond the gender or sexuality of the character? Something to do with the context in which it is being created? Perhaps people are not upset with the gender or sexuality, but rather the message they feel the story is attempting to convey.


Why does that matter?

It matters when you are responding who is saying it isn't the case.
He claimed it was X, I pointed out it's Y.
There doesn't need to be an agenda behind pointing out facts.

 

[B-universe]

It's totally on topic. I get what you're saying, but again language always evolves. It's been that way for 1,000s of years. So you can keep using the wrong pronouns all you want, but then you shouldn't get mad when people call you out on that. Plus it shows you don't care about Trans people (if this is how you really feel).

Of course language evolves.

When changes do not represent my thinking, I opt out, naturally. It would be dishonest to do otherwise. As for being called out, this is a free society. Let's see what the epitaphs are then. I'm guessing they'll be more revealing of the sender than that of the receiver. We're back to square one: on your side the assumption seems to be that unless one defers completely, unless one complies completely with the alleged feelings and wishes of certain individuals, then one has irrational disdain for them. You just cannot fathom other possibilities.

Please tell me, in what other social circumstances does your interlocutor hold so much power over you? In what other adult-to-adult interactions would you be willing to cater so extensively and fundamentally to their diktats? Or would you tell them to take a hike? Let's say I walked up to you and required you to address me as Emperor of the B-universe. I feel I'm the Emperor of the B-universe. Don't invalidate my experience. Don't you care about me, the Emperor of the B-universe? Are you a bigot?

As for pronouns, who introduced what can only be described as deliberate linguistic mayhem? Who proclaims by royal decree there's a new separate category - gender, a social construct - but then decides to have the exact same old pronouns pertaining to the existing category - sex, the biological reality - assigned to the new one? Who did this? Who is the author of confusion here? Why was this done? So that when objections are raised the answer can be "I'm not talking about sex. I'm talking about gender"? For people so ready and willing to coin new terms, this is such an odd omission and juxtaposition.

Truth is more important than anybody's feelings. Mine, yours or those of Trans people.

You just can't fathom someone doing this out of principles. It all has to be mean-spirited, somehow. It all has to be because one doesn't care about Trans people.

 

[maneil99]

The girl is 21 years old in real life.Ellie in the game is 19. Are you telling me the made her tits smaller and nose smaller because of 2 years difference? Man thats probably the most SJW reply back on this topic

Maybe they just wanted that body type to be similar to all the other characters in the world, although I suppose that theory doesn’t hold up considering how fucking huge Abby is.

 

[BadBurger]

I have nothing against trans people, in fact I am rather empathetic towards them. It must be extremely rough being born one sex when your brain is telling you you are another. But the way they unduly influence media has got to stop. They're like a fraction of a percentage of the population and their ideas about physicality are just clearly wrong. Women look like women. Men look like men. Sorry, nothing will ever change that.

 

[Paracelsus]

If you feature ugly women in entertainment, you don't change the perception of men when it comes to beauty. "Man, if she's in hollywood that means she looks good". That ain't how it works.
This is no different.

 

[maneil99]

Of course language evolves.

When changes do not represent my thinking, I opt out, naturally. It would be dishonest to do otherwise. As for being called out, this is a free society. Let's see what the epitaphs are then. I'm guessing they'll be more revealing of the sender than that of the receiver. We're back to square one: on your side the assumption seems to be that unless one defers completely, unless one complies completely with the alleged feelings and wishes of certain individuals, then one has irrational disdain for them. You just cannot fathom other possibilities.

Please tell me, in what other social circumstances does your interlocutor hold so much power over you? In what other adult-to-adult interactions would you be willing to cater so extensively and fundamentally to their diktats? Or would you tell them to take a hike? Let's say I walked up to you and required you to address me as Emperor of the B-universe. I feel I'm the Emperor of the B-universe. Don't invalidate my experience. Don't you care about me, the Emperor of the B-universe? Are you a bigot?

As for pronouns, who introduced what can only be described as deliberate linguistic mayhem? Who proclaims by royal decree there's a new separate category - gender, a social construct - but then decides to have the exact same old pronouns pertaining to the existing category - sex, the biological reality - assigned to the new one? Who did this? Who is the author of confusion here? Why was this done? So that when objections are raised the answer can be "I'm not talking about sex. I'm talking about gender"? For people so ready and willing to coin new terms, this is such an odd omission and juxtaposition.

Truth is more important than anybody's feelings. Mine, yours and those of tans people.

You just can't fathom someone doing this out of principles. It all has to be mean-spirited, somehow. It all has to be because one doesn't care about Trans people.

This is such a cringey response.
No doubt are there people using pro nouns for attention, we can all envision the pink haired half shaven obese person asking to be called Xur. But as far as gender goes, but the whole “I opt out of anything I don’t believe in is straight flat earther / 5G level.

If it makes someone feel more comfortable to be a male vs a female why not call them that. I used to have similar opinions to yourself, who the fuck are these people to dictate what I call someone. However looking at history I can understand it. Look how minorities and such were viewed as subhuman. Many would argue similar arguement against it. Hell many in third world countries do the same with women.

If calling someone their preferred pronoun helps them feel more part of society, and less likely to kill themself or revert to abusive substances, why not.

I’m not saying you alone not obiding will result in them doing that, but it’s a snowball effect, and laws that protect them are aimed to keep that snowball smaller rather than larger.

 

[stickkidsam]

It matters when you are responding who is saying it isn't the case.
He claimed it was X, I pointed out it's Y.
There doesn't need to be an agenda behind pointing out facts.

That's fair. My apologies for ignoring the context.

 

[maneil99]

If you feature ugly women in entertainment, you don't change the perception of men when it comes to beauty. "Man, if she's in hollywood that means she looks good". That ain't how it works.
This is no different.

Many beauty standards are no doubt evolutionary, however it’s less about that and more general acceptance, many girls are afraid of going to the gym because they don’t wanna get “too jacked” ect, and it’s not that society ridicules woman that get muscular, but more the fear that it’s such an unusual look that they will stand out, and that they will be an easy target.

At least that’s my opinion

 

[farmerboy]

I think its both equally. People say oh as if all of a sudden they went with this LGBT politics. Look, we had Billy and Ellie in the DLC where they implemented these LGBT moments. I would say they were done masterfully because it was tasteful, they represented who they wanted to represent and got their point across. HOWEVER the story was still the main focsu, it was like oh ok she is lesbian/bisexual but how is she going to survive with Joel. It was a character build up and you moven on.

And now we came to a point where Niel went full SJW politics, where especially if you read the spoilers...its a womens world, reduction of breast sizes, they purposly are making average dyke looking females because now if you put a good looking girl, its a bad role model to the ugly ones out there? Its ridiculous, the game now revolves mostly around that instead of the plot. I dont give a shit how many LGBT they want to put in the game, but dont pepper it all over the game because those are your political views and you want to push in your agenda. Instead of being a game where "oh this gay character did this and that, it became "this and that happened but let us tell you, she is gay and proud and she is the strongest women out there and fuck men and fuck good looking people because thats sexualization. You get the idea.

Thanks for this explanation. I haven't seen spoilers, but kinda have an idea whats going on due to the surrounding conversation.

In saying that, part of me can't help but think this still is a MASSIVELY HYSTERICAL over reaction.

Either way, I'm looking forward to finding out.

 

[Paracelsus]

Many beauty standards are no doubt evolutionary, however it’s less about that and more general acceptance, many girls are afraid of going to the gym because they don’t wanna get “too jacked” ect, and it’s not that society ridicules woman that get muscular, but more the fear that it’s such an unusual look that they will stand out, and that they will be an easy target.

At least that’s my opinion

For one, you make that a gender issue, it's fat people.
Second: men are shamed for being fat more than women, if fat Thor was fat Widow, you would've had another civil war in the USA.
Third: nobody is judgmental in the gym and nobody mocks fat people in the gym for trying to lose weight, what happens is that people will tell you to lose weight and then you go to the gym.
Fourth

 

[maneil99]

For one, you make that a gender issue, it's fat people.
Second: men are shamed for being fat more than women, if fat Thor was fat Widow, you would've had another civil war in the USA.
Third: nobody is judgmental in the gym and nobody mocks fat people in the gym for trying to lose weight, what happens is that people will tell you to lose weight and then you go to the gym.
Fourth

There is definitely a bias against men body image wise in current Hollywood media, I don’t disagree. I’m referring to the notion that it doesn’t matter who’s in games or media, that it won’t have an effect on societies views on body types.

Thats what I disagree with. It’s not just for fat people either. Look at Asia, they have a heavy focus on light fair skinned in their media which trickles down into their society even in ethnically homogeneous places like Korea

 

[B-universe]

This is such a cringey response.

Top notch argument.

No doubt are there people using pro nouns for attention, we can all envision the pink haired half shaven obese person asking to be called Xur. But as far as gender goes, but the whole “I opt out of anything I don’t believe in is straight flat earther / 5G level.

Meaningless vapid statement.

If it makes someone feel more comfortable to be a male vs a female why not call them that.

There's a whole paragraph dedicated to the reason why.

I used to have similar opinions to yourself, who the fuck are these people to dictate what I call someone. However looking at history I can understand it. Look how minorities and such were viewed as subhuman. Many would argue similar arguement against it. Hell many in third world countries do the same with women

Yes, it's entirely reasonable to describe not using certain pronouns as regarding and treating Trans people as sub-human. Clearly, it's the exact same thing. You're the reasonable Obi Wan Kenobi here.

If calling someone their preferred pronoun helps them feel more part of society, and less likely to kill themself or revert to abusive substances, why not.

It's been explained to you and unaddressed by you . If language other people use has such an effect, I'd say the wisest course of action is to grow as a robust mature adult. Do whatever it takes to reach that stage of maturity. Don't burden me with what essentially is your own personal growth, because even if I adjust my pronouns, the unpleasant minutiae life throws at you will likely trip you up.

Your talk about caring for Trans people falls flat in light of you wanting a quick panacea that solves nothing and me wanting them to deal with the real core issue. If pronouns trigger or help to trigger suicidal thoughts, clearly you are the one dangerously misleading these people. Not me, you.

I’m not saying you alone not obiding will result in them doing that, but it’s a snowball effect, and laws that protect them are aimed to keep that snowball smaller rather than larger.

Laws that mandate speech are tyrannical.
A "right" that infringes upon other people's rights cannot be considered a right.
Your support tyranny.

 

[Lethal01]

For one, you make that a gender issue, it's fat people.
Second: men are shamed for being fat more than women, if fat Thor was fat Widow, you would've had another civil war in the USA.
Third: nobody is judgmental in the gym and nobody mocks fat people in the gym for trying to lose weight, what happens is that people will tell you to lose weight and then you go to the gym.
Fourth

I think it's pretty rare for men to avoid going to the gym because they don't wanna get too jacked.

 

[Paracelsus]

I think it's pretty rare for men to avoid going to the gym because they don't wanna get too jacked.

The other side of the coin is that it's also rare/near impossible for men as fat as Ellana Bryan to make money off their obesity.
Unless they're strongmen, in which case their income is from their strength.

 

[Velius]

Exactly. How dare they add Black
or any women that can beat a healthy man like Nathan drake like its nothing. Heck, Im sure Holly holm would have beaten Mayweather's ass if that boxing match ever came to fruition.

It was Rousey and Mayweather. And no she wouldn't have. Neither of them would.

 

[Grinchy]

I have nothing against trans people, in fact I am rather empathetic towards them. It must be extremely rough being born one sex when your brain is telling you you are another. But the way they unduly influence media has got to stop. They're like a fraction of a percentage of the population and their ideas about physicality are just clearly wrong. Women look like women. Men look like men. Sorry, nothing will ever change that.

Yeah I'm in a similar spot. I don't come across as the biggest "ally" to the trans community and would never claim to be, but I actually have a ton of empathy for real trans people.

What I can't stand is using that incredibly small population of the human race as a tool for selfish gain. It could be someone who wants to appear morally superior by latching onto the newest "cause," or someone who flat out illegitimately claims to be trans to get attention, acceptance, or whatever else was lacking in their life.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

.

Santa Madre Purísima. Yo no hice nada!!!

Dont punch me please!

 

[Silver Wattle]

Thank fuck I don't care much for naughty dog games, they getting woke as fuck.

 

[Lionel Richie]

If calling someone their preferred pronoun helps them feel more part of society, and less likely to kill themself or revert to abusive substances, why not.

The problem here is that addiction and suicide are not driven by superficial issues and can not be solved like that, which to me is symptomatic of the current culture of trying to nurture back to life people who are in clear need of medical attention. Of course I'm not advocating for being cruel towards anyone, but the idea that if we're kind enough we can "heal" someone is ludicrous. Anyone who ever seriously considered suicide isn't in need of warmth and comprehension, but rather urgent psychological treatment.

 

[maneil99]

The problem here is that addiction and suicide are not driven by superficial issues and can not be solved like that, which to me is symptomatic of the current culture of trying to nurture back to life people who are in clear need of medical attention. Of course I'm not advocating for being cruel towards anyone, but the idea that if we're kind enough we can "heal" someone is ludicrous. Anyone who ever seriously considered suicide isn't in need of warmth and comprehension, but rather urgent psychological treatment.

Correct, but the way we treat people superficially can reflect on how we treat them on a systematic level, of course it works both ways.
An example is Red Lining and banks with African Americans. That came after society viewed them poorly. Like i said in the post, nobody is killing themselves because they are misgendered by Joe Blow.
But misgendering certainly doesnt help someone who is likely to already be running into systematic issues for their sexuality / gender choice.

 

[bumleforce]

so rather than make them look like 99% of Women they choose to cater to less than 1% because that's the cool thing to do and they are Woke

 

[Lionel Richie]

Correct, but the way we treat people superficially can reflect on how we treat them on a systematic level, of course it works both ways.
An example is Red Lining and banks with African Americans. That came after society viewed them poorly. Like i said in the post, nobody is killing themselves because they are misgendered by Joe Blow.
But misgendering certainly doesnt help someone who is likely to already be running into systematic issues for their sexuality / gender choice.

In essence I agree with you, theoretically it makes total sense. I just find concerning that depression gets labeled as a consequence of an oppressive society to the point there's actually some prejudice against suggesting mentally unstable people to seek help. Ideally, in a healthy world, people shitposting on the internet would have no effect on someone's mental health. While defending one to just deal with it and ignore it or whatever is misguided, so is the idea that simply removing that harmful content fixes the problem.

While there's probably too much mistrust for a collective epiphany on how to proceed with transgender issues on modern society, I don't think there's currently a correct approach even after isolating the sheer noise surrounding the discussion. I think we're getting there though, I just don't see how it happens in the short term.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Looks similar? The clothing and lighting on the right certainly makes her look hotter though.

Actually I find it quite obvious that the right one is a LOT more feminine, thus not really proving the point of the original posting.

 

[The Alien]

Dont quote me on it, but im pretty sure thats done quite a bit with translations from real life models. The adverse take place probably more....the woman being overly sexualized moreso than the model...or some dad bod guy given a 8 pack and large biceps.

True. I'm sure it does happen a lot.

Interesting that the reverse seemed to be intentionally happening here. Intentionally making a woman less femininly attractive and more masculine.

The interesting question is why would Naughty Dog do that. The answer to this is likely the answer to many other directions this game has taken.

 

[LordKasual]

There's a lot of words here without a single shred of evidence.

But this is Neogaf trans bait so why am I not surprised.

Seriously, this shit is embarassing.

There is literally nothing in this article that even attempts to place the headline with reality

and yet so much triggered

OK genuine question - how much of the outrage is from the actual plot and how much of it is from the inclusion of more members of the lgbt community? I don't know any of the spoilers but I keep seeing trans memes and bashing TLOU 2 for going woke. Please no spoilers

Naughty Dog didn't say shit about anyone being Trans or anything.

There are no spoilers. There is nothing of substance relevant to TLOU2 in this article or this thread

it's just another excuse for neckbeards to get triggered over 3D models not being cute enough to add to their wank folder collection.


A main character was shown with muscles and had the audacity to be female at the same time, and Gaf lost their damn minds

 

[mckmas8808]

But it is a male-dominated hobby as well. We can bicker over the fact that more women play Candy Crush now than they did back before mobile gaming was a thing, but this has never been a hobby that pushed women away. It was a hobby that historically repulsed women.

This would be like going into a JoAnn Fabrics store and complaining about how all the packing for the sewing supplies cater to women. Men sew too! It makes perfect sense that because our brains and minds are different, we are generally into different things. I can't really think of any female-dominated hobbies or interests that have people demanding better representation for men. Why does it feel like it's only ever wrong if it's male dominated?

I'm not saying that the video game industry was sexist, bigoted, or racist for having mainly white males as leads. I was just stating what I thought was obvious. Now the industry has been changing over the last 7-10 years where the lead isn't always a white straight male and that's obviously a good thing.

And to your question.....what are female-dominated hobbies or interests that we can think about. I can't think of any, to be honest.

This shit right here is everything wrong with the situation at hand.

"You don't agree with my language, therefore you don't care about >insert group< people"

That holier than thou attitude is what people are upset about and it uses people's better nature as a weapon against them. You can make whatever game you want. Don't shame others for enjoying traditional fantasies of masculine or feminine power. As you have been shown, there are plenty of fantastic and beloved female characters in gaming and other media. Hiding behind representation as an argument is weak because OF COURSE a majority of characters will be male if the majority of creators and players are also male. Creation is partly an injection of the ego. You don't get to claim that sexuality/gender/race shouldn't matter to people and then be upset that there isn't equity in diversity.

If you choose to call a Trans-female a "He" "Him" or "Dude".....you're clearly being insensitive and you don't care about that person or people like them. That's clear and obvious. Not sure why you think that's a "holier than thou" attitude.

Please tell me, in what other social circumstances does your interlocutor hold so much power over you? In what other adult-to-adult interactions would you be willing to cater so extensively and fundamentally to their diktats? Or would you tell them to take a hike? Let's say I walked up to you and required you to address me as Emperor of the B-universe. I feel I'm the Emperor of the B-universe. Don't invalidate my experience. Don't you care about me, the Emperor of the B-universe? Are you a bigot?

As for pronouns, who introduced what can only be described as deliberate linguistic mayhem? Who proclaims by royal decree there's a new separate category - gender, a social construct - but then decides to have the exact same old pronouns pertaining to the existing category - sex, the biological reality - assigned to the new one? Who did this? Who is the author of confusion here? Why was this done? So that when objections are raised the answer can be "I'm not talking about sex. I'm talking about gender"? For people so ready and willing to coin new terms, this is such an odd omission and juxtaposition.

Truth is more important than anybody's feelings. Mine, yours and those of tans people.

You just can't fathom someone doing this out of principles. It all has to be mean-spirited, somehow. It all has to be because one doesn't care about Trans people.

See that's the thing. I don't consider it catering at all. That's the difference between myself and some others here. I don't get offended that someone or group of people would like to be called something different. I just roll with it, because it doesn't bother me. Plus I respect that person. In the same way I wouldn't call someone out of their name. If a guy's name is Jim, I'm not going to call him Terry just because I want to. He's Jim. If a year later he told me he'd like to go by his real first name "James", then I'll call him James. It's no big deal to me. I'm wouldn't fight him on that. I'm not trying to fight a culture war about this.

Plus re-read the 2nd thing I bolded in your post. Take a look at it. Think about what you typed. That's not consistent with someone that cares about Trans people. You clearly don't think what they say about themselves is true, to begin with.

 

[LordKasual]

For one, you make that a gender issue, it's fat people.
Second: men are shamed for being fat more than women, if fat Thor was fat Widow, you would've had another civil war in the USA.
Third: nobody is judgmental in the gym and nobody mocks fat people in the gym for trying to lose weight, what happens is that people will tell you to lose weight and then you go to the gym.
Fourth

Thor can be fat because it's funny to see a masculine, powerful man with such a shitty body.

But Black Widow can never be fat because her appearance is like 90% of her entire character. Even if she had super powers and lost 0% of her athletic ability, the moment Widow becomes unattractive is the moment everyone stops caring about her.

This idea that society "praises women for being fat" is an obvious illusion that nobody actually believes or falls for. It's the equivalent of cheering on the last place straggler in a footrace.

I think it's pretty rare for men to avoid going to the gym because they don't wanna get too jacked.

I've literally heard this excuse from men too. It's a universal thing.

Like they're just gonna magically get 20lbs of gains lifting 15lb barbells for 10 minutes

 

[Paracelsus]

Thor can be fat because it's funny to see a masculine, powerful man with such a shitty body.

But Black Widow can never be fat because her appearance is like 90% of her entire character. Even if she had super powers and lost 0% of her athletic ability, the moment Widow becomes unattractive is the moment everyone stops caring about her.

This idea that society "praises women for being fat" is an obvious illusion that nobody actually believes or falls for. It's the equivalent of cheering on the last place straggler in a footrace.

Did you purposedly ignore that obese woman I mentioned?
Of course nobody is going to praise women that look like Maggie de Block. What do you want, a medal for looking like that?

 

[eot]

Now, is that a trans man or a trans woman?

If you transition to say female, then back to male again, are you still trans? I mean you should be trans-trans right?
I feel like "detransition" implies that you were never truly female after your first transition.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Wait. The payment dispute has been debunked?
is this source or the quotes even real?
Has anyone from naughty dog said they are making women more masculine to basically not offend the trans community?

Is this a real source?

 

[Bill O'Rights]

Folks, just dropping a note in here. Some people are inadvertently revealing certain characters from the leaks. This will also be subject to permanent bans. As detailed in the title, this is a no spoiler thread. You can talk around the theme without going into specifics.

We haven't issued any bans as of yet believing these to be simple faux pas and confusion over threads. We have issued some reply bans to protect users from themselves. Going forward this will not be extended. We recommend you watch any videos you post thoroughly. If another user reports a video and we have to watch it to confirm then it will be an automatic permanent ban with no appeal.

 

[Lethal01]

I've literally heard this excuse from men too. It's a universal thing.

Like they're just gonna magically get 20lbs of gains lifting 15lb barbells for 10 minutes

It's still far more common with men, just saying gender is a factor in that situation

 

[eot]

jesus christ...

Her youtube channel is surprisingly chill for what it is

 

[GymWolf]

Nate has fought hundreds and hundreds of paramilitary soldiers, but somehow the only one trained in combat was this little woman.

She is stronger than the 6 feet soldiers that double her weight. Apparently they weren’t teached the strongest martial art of them all: feminist-fu.




I don’t know where you learned that subjectivist bullshit, but you are obviously wrong.

yep.
i don't have anything against nadine destroying nate because the whole plot and chara in that game is shit to begin with but nate has fought and beated a shitload of trained military men and mercenaries, sometimes more bigger than him but nadine was better than all of them just because? hard to believe.
someone said that nadine is all muscular while nate is bigger but with less muscles or strenght...fucking what? the dude rockclimb without any security measure, do people know how much strenght is required to do that shit (plus all the combat experience)? the guy has arms and hands of steel and a very athletic body, probably more than your typical soldier.

 

[whatup]

Wait. The payment dispute has been debunked?
is this source or the quotes even real?
Has anyone from naughty dog said they are making women more masculine to basically not offend the trans community?

Is this a real source?

Of course none of it is real. Androgynizing characters to appease the trans community is not a thing that exists except in the fever swamp of the mass psychoses unfolding in this community. Only someone marinating in "anti-SJW" propaganda could come up with such an idea.

The credulity of many here is embarrassing and, frankly, frightening.

 

[GreenAlien]

Has anyone from naughty dog said they are making women more masculine to basically not offend the trans community?

The source is questionable. It even says "allegedly" in the article. What isn't' as questionable are the comparison pictures. Dina is clearly more masculine than her model.

Imo it's more likely to be a result of the typical "avoiding the male gaze" than considerations for the trans community, but with crazy SJW types you never know. It's not "out there" compared with their usual reasoning.

 

[iNvid02]

The irony is hilarious. They've done more to push back the acceptance of trans characters in games before their game has even launched

A wynert from assassins creed or abrams from andromeda just wouldnt cut it eh drunkman

 

[B-universe]

I'm not saying that the video game industry was sexist, bigoted, or racist for having mainly white males as leads. I was just stating what I thought was obvious. Now the industry has been changing over the last 7-10 years where the lead isn't always a white straight male and that's obviously a good thing.

And to your question.....what are female-dominated hobbies or interests that we can think about. I can't think of any, to be honest.



If you choose to call a Trans-female a "He" "Him" or "Dude".....you're clearly being insensitive and you don't care about that person or people like them. That's clear and obvious. Not sure why you think that's a "holier than thou" attitude.



See that's the thing. I don't consider it catering at all. That's the difference between myself and some others here. I don't get offended that someone or group of people would like to be called something different. I just roll with it, because it doesn't bother me. Plus I respect that person. In the same way I wouldn't call someone out of their name. If a guy's name is Jim, I'm not going to call him Terry just because I want to. He's Jim. If a year later he told me he'd like to go by his real first name "James", then I'll call him James. It's no big deal to me. I'm wouldn't fight him on that. I'm not trying to fight a culture war about this.

Plus re-read the 2nd thing I bolded in your post. Take a look at it. Think about what you typed. That's not consistent with someone that cares about Trans people. You clearly don't think what they say about themselves is true, to begin with.

What a complete disaster of a post yours is.

So feelings trump Truth? No rational dialogue is possible with someone like you. Thanks for coming out of the closet as a truth-denier. Hopefully, one day you'll come to realize this. Maybe when a Kul Klux Klan member tells you they feel black people are inferior and that they feel Malcolm X was an inferior human being, maybe, who knows, maybe then and only then will you realize the terrible epistemic mistake you've been making all along.

1. Trans people feel there's a mismatch between their bodies and their identities. Certain biological males feel they're women and certain biological females feel they're men. They have these feelings. This is objectively true.

2. Men who feel they're women and women who feel they're men do not meet any of the objective criteria that would have them belonging to the other sex. This is objectively true.

3. A new category has been created called gender, which is said to be a social construct. This category has been further divided into two subcategories, gender identity and gender expression. For some odd reason the pronouns in this new category are the same as those of the already existing category, biological sex. Proponents of this new categories must show evidence they exist and describe reality better than the previous ones. To avoid confusion, if what they're after is clarity, they would be well-advised to coin new terms.

4. For the purposes of language, fact #2 supplants fact #1. Otherwise, even if you were to grant the existence of categories in #3, the acknowledgement would lead to confusion. The purpose of language is to clarify, not to obfuscate.

5. I think calling these individuals Transwomen and Transmen is adequate.

6. Caring for Trans people entails awarding adults every legal right and protection to undergo whatever body modification they seek. It also entails addressing them using appropriate descriptive terminology such as Transmen and Transwomen.

7. Even if you don't happen to agree with it, the above, it is an argument. It cannot be misconstrued as hate, or as irrational disdain. This, it cannot de described as transphobic. Yet watch as a certain faction of Trans activists smear and try to burn to the ground the lives of those who use these types of arguments.

 

[stickkidsam]

I'm not saying that the video game industry was sexist, bigoted, or racist for having mainly white males as leads. I was just stating what I thought was obvious. Now the industry has been changing over the last 7-10 years where the lead isn't always a white straight male and that's obviously a good thing.

And to your question.....what are female-dominated hobbies or interests that we can think about. I can't think of any, to be honest.

Why do you pay attention to the demographics of a hobby rather than the hobby itself? That's like watching a game for the crowd.

If the hobby gains more people interested in it, that isn't good or bad. It just means that the hobby has gained appeal. What is good is that people are able to engage in something that they like. Not that pie chart is evening out.

If you choose to call a Trans-female a "He" "Him" or "Dude".....you're clearly being insensitive and you don't care about that person or people like them. That's clear and obvious. Not sure why you think that's a "holier than thou" attitude.

Put simply, you have attached the ability to "care" for another person, to a single interpretation of a concept (gender) and have elevated yourself to the position of judge.

This interpretation of a concept even rises above the very people you claim to care for; you have alienated them from those who would wish them well, who would try to bridge their differences. Yet because they disagree with HOW they express their care for another, you deem them as incapable of caring at all. You have judged them as unfit to feel something as deeply personal as a sense of want for another's well being.

It is authoritarian (in its domineering of peoples ability to express themselves), underhanded (in its use of people's better nature against them), arrogant (to think you can tell another they do not care), and hypocritical (for not seeing that your method of care is itself, one of many ways). You are creating a binary in which there is no nuance or room for discussion, because how can the person in need of care trust the intent of the people you say don't actually care?

Now I should like to believe that you mean well by your method, but yours is one that I believe will serve to divide people more than it will bridge understanding because it assumes the worst of those that disagree with you and deafens them to the ears of those in need of understanding.

Spoiler: "Care" Defined

In looking up a few definitions of "care", you'll find that it is a word which means to be troubled, concerned, or to feel a sense of responsibility for something. It can be empathetic or sympathetic when applied to another person and is generally looked at as a mark of a good person to feel a sense of care towards your peers. Now, how one shows that they care can vary wildly. Humans come from many different backgrounds, cultures, experiences, and ways of thinking; this can make it difficult to understand or interpret the actions of one another, but we try nonetheless in hopes that we might find peace. In order to do that, we must be open to the idea that not only will we not all show care in the same way, but be able to acknowledge that a lack of care for one thing does not necessarily imply a lack of care for another (e.g. I may not care about baseball, but I care that people be able to play it).

See that's the thing. I don't consider it catering at all. That's the difference between myself and some others here. I don't get offended that someone or group of people would like to be called something different. I just roll with it, because it doesn't bother me. Plus I respect that person. In the same way I wouldn't call someone out of their name. If a guy's name is Jim, I'm not going to call him Terry just because I want to. He's Jim. If a year later he told me he'd like to go by his real first name "James", then I'll call him James. It's no big deal to me. I'm wouldn't fight him on that. I'm not trying to fight a culture war about this.

You assume others are offended by the idea of being called different pronouns, rather than them just disagreeing with the notion itself. Why? Isn't it likelier that they might be appalled at your attempt to guilt them into using those pronouns with concepts like "respect" and "care"?

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

What about those women who regret having transitioned, who's lives have been ruined by transitioning? Will Neil Druckmann also try to appeal to them?

 

[FranXico]

I usually hate forced characters, but I admit I loved Nadine

I'd have loved to play as her too

Lost Legacy?

 

[Teslerum]

yep.
i don't have anything against nadine destroying nate because the whole plot and chara in that game is shit to begin with but nate has fought and beated a shitload of trained military men and mercenaries, sometimes more bigger than him but nadine was better than all of them just because? hard to believe.
someone said that nadine is all muscular while nate is bigger but with less muscles or strenght...fucking what? the dude rockclimb without any security measure, do people know how much strenght is required to do that shit (plus all the combat experience)? the guy has arms and hands of steel and a very athletic body, probably more than your typical soldier.

To give context to this, chuck an experIenced rock climber into any fitness/strength based compition and they'll often do REALLY well. It's often visible in obstacle courses (both tv and local competitions). The grip strength you develop is insane.

Which is why I actually had quite a while before I managed to suspend my disbelief for Uncharted 2's opening as well. Doing that shit while under icy conditions with no equipment is such a ridiculous task it beggars belief. Which goes a bit too far even for video game Indiana Jones.

The whole sequence in UC4 fell even shorter for me because that game tried to be *serious drama* for a lot of it and we're talking a human vs human fight here not human vs nature. And in the end as you said the gap isn't that big between Nadine and Drake to make the one-sidedness believable.

 

[Geki-D]

Lost Legacy?

You don't actually play as her at any point, if I recall correctly.

 

[Guardian's Light]

Lost Legacy?

Mmh, played lost legacy a long time ago, but am I wrong or There aren't sections with her? Only her playable skin iirc

No, I'd want a game with her as a main playable