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[Lumpyoatmeal]

I remember playing multiplayer games like UT, original Battlefield’s and even console titles like Gears of War 3 and being blown away at the visuals.

Today, almost every multiplayer title has that same shitty visual style of painting on meshes -

This is Counter-Strike 2 (For OGs I’m not even kidding); Valve is probably the worst developer out of the bunch that uses this shitty style in their games post Portal 2.

Valorant

Dota 2

And the lists goes on of muliplayer titles using this style. To me (in my opinion) it comes across as these developers are not even trying at all, just bare minimum efforts, and new gamers let them get away with it because they don’t know any better.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

OP lies. They were never the graphical showpiece games.

 

[BennyBlanco]

It’s in their best interest to make these games run on a toaster so they do. Netcafes in korea aren’t buying 4080s and 4090s.

 

[BennyBlanco]

OP lies. They were never the graphical showpiece games.

He’s 100% right

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

He’s 100% right

I'm surrounded by snakes! That's a single player screenshot, which looked better than the multiplayer mode.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

It’s in their best interest to make these games run on a toaster so they do. Netcafes in korea aren’t buying 4080s and 4090s.

BennyBlanco, I thought this was the case which is why I ignored the phenomenon for some time but eventually I became disbelief. Check this out, this game came out 13 years ago and ran on the Xbox 360, we got onboard cards today that wipes this floor with that hardware-


This old game shouldn’t visually look better than these games at all.

 

[nkarafo]

OP lies. They were never the graphical showpiece games.

Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament were the best looking titles for PCs when they got released. Same with UT 2003/4.

 

[Mownoc]

When you're trying to make a highly competitive game both clear visuals and ultra high performance are more important than highly detailed graphics.

But yeah in general it's pretty much the same for all multiplayer titles these days even more casual ones.

Battlefront (2015) looked insanely good.

 

[nkarafo]

@OP i agree. I absolutely hate this graphical style. It makes every object and surface look like it's made by the same material, toy plastic or something. Naughty Dog is also guilty of this style with their cartoony games. Every modern Crash game, including the kart game and remastered trilogy, look worse than the Nintendo equivalents (despite the later running on weaker hardware) because they use this style.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

@OP i agree. I absolutely hate this graphical style. It makes every object and surface look like it's made by the same material, toy plastic or something. Naughty Dog is also guilty of this style with their cartoony games. Every modern Crash game, including the kart game and remastered trilogy, look worse than the Nintendo equivalents (despite the later running on weaker hardware) because they use this style.

nkarafo my guy! For gamers that been around long enough you know what I’m talking about.

Even if these titles are not cutting edge with graphics technology, low end hardware is fast enough to where you can still today use a style like Gears of War 3 and probably even graphically polish up what the Xbox 360 couldn’t do.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament were the best looking titles for PCs when they got released. Same with UT 2003/4.

The PC market was minuscule in 1999. If you look at polls from 1999, all the best graphics winners are single player games on console.

 

[The_Observer]

I think OP is more about the disgusting Fortnite-like artstyle everyone copies nowadays because multiplayer always looked worse graphically than single player modes/games.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

They did? Not sure that premise is sound. Hmmmm

I feel like it's always more depended on the genre, the game, the studio making it, etc. In general, blanket generalizations like this are almost always wrong.

 

[nkarafo]

The PC market was minuscule in 1999.

What am i reading?

DOOM, Quake, Diablo, Warcraft, Starcraft, Half-Life, Red Alert, all the point & click adventures, Sim City, Heroes, Civilization...

In what universe a platform that has all these properties is "minuscule"?

If you look at polls from 1999, all the best graphics winners are single player games on console.

In 1999 maybe, since the Dreamcast was still new and fresh but there was no console game that came close to Unreal Tournament 2003 when it was released and that was a purely multiplayer game.

 

[ComputerBlue]

Overall I disagree, but in some cases yes, Battlefront 2015 still impressive looking to this day.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

The PC market was minuscule in 1999. If you look at polls from 1999, all the best graphics winners are single player games on console.

This is just straight up not true at all. LOL. But it's nice to just say things, I guess

 

[Doczu]

Multiplayer games is one thing but where are the fighting games that rocked the consoles (and arcades) graphics? When you bought the next big Namco title you knew you were in for a treat

 

[T4keD0wN]

Games like Black desert online or any of the MMOs had an advantage in having gigantic budgets back when SP games were cheap and MMos were pc exclusive so they could afford to push the visuals for their time.

Times have changed with hardware not being a limiting factor anymore and MP games needing to be accessible on as many devices as possible in order to maximize the profits and MP games being visually impressive hasnt been true for a very long time.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

What am i reading?

DOOM, Quake, Diablo, Warcraft, Starcraft, Half-Life, Red Alert, all the point & click adventures, Sim City, Heroes, Civilization...

In what universe a platform that has all these properties is "minuscule"?

Minuscule was a poor word choice. It was definitely significantly smaller than the console market in 1999 though.

In 1999 maybe, since the Dreamcast was still new and fresh but there was no console game that came close to Unreal Tournament 2003 when it was released and that was a purely multiplayer game.

I stand corrected. I will say, Unreal Tournament seems to be the exception to the rule. Single player games have traditionally been the high water mark for graphics every year.

 

[nkarafo]

Multiplayer games is one thing but where are the fighting games that rocked the consoles (and arcades) graphics? When you bought the next big Namco title you knew you were in for a treat

Diminishing returns. The models have so many polygons now that even if you multiply them by 100, it won't make any difference. Animation wise these games were pretty much perfected since the early 00's. Plus, all these games are stylized, nobody is trying to create human models that look realistic, they are all going for the CGI anime which has hit a ceiling in how good it can look. That's why the latest Mortal Kombat looks better to me in still screenshots and cutscenes as it goes for a more realistic look but the janky animation during fights sucks in comparison to the more graceful Japanese games.

3D fighting games used to be showcases in the mid-late 90's because those big 3D human models are hard to model/animate and they were the ultimate showcase of the 3D prowess. They could also showcase all sorts of materials depending on the outfits plus stuff like hair and cloth physics. Nowadays none of these things are impressive anymore and it's just the norm.

 

[StueyDuck]

It's not rocket science. The more people who could potentially play a game equals more potential money.

Rather make games for potatoes and make bank on skins etc than have the extreme super crysis mega multiplayer that barely a quarter of gamers can play if even

 

[bender]

OP lies. They were never the graphical showpiece games.

 

[manfestival]

It’s in their best interest to make these games run on a toaster so they do. Netcafes in korea aren’t buying 4080s and 4090s.

yeah but I bought a 4090 so CATER TO ME!!!

 

[nkarafo]

Minuscule was a poor word choice. It was definitely significantly smaller than the console market in 1999 though.

The console market as a whole you mean? That's Nintendo, Sega and Sony, each could have more than a single console on the market. The PC is just a single platform. Of course a single platform is going to be smaller than 5 or 6 put together.

I stand corrected. I will say, Unreal Tournament seems to be the exception to the rule. Single player games have traditionally been the high water mark for graphics every year.

The original DOOM was also the best looking game in 1993 by a wide margin. There was nothing close to it technically on consoles. And yes, while many of us played it as a single player game, it was made with multiplayer in mind and it was the game that revolutionized online deathmatch on PCs. Quake was also the best looking game in 1995, shortly before the N64 was released with Mario 64. And that was even more multiplayer focused.

Sure, these games weren't exclusively multiplayer since they had single player campaigns. Then again both Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament had single player campaigns as well, with bots as opponents.

You must also keep in mind that consoles didn't have online multiplayer during those days (even for DC it was a new and very niche thing) so you couldn't have enough MP focused games to compare graphics wise.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

It's not rocket science. The more people who could potentially play a game equals more potential money.

Rather make games for potatoes and make bank on skins etc than have the extreme super crysis mega multiplayer that barely a quarter of gamers can play if even

This is Counter-Strike 2 system requirements-

Even the integrated Intel uhd 630 meets these requirements, but not only that this integrated card run those Xbox 360 titles as well. We have the hardware even at the low end to visually render titles that look like Gears of War 3.

 

[StueyDuck]

This is Counter-Strike 2 system requirements-

Even the integrated Intel uhd 630 meets these requirements, but not only that this integrated card run those Xbox 360 titles as well. We have the hardware even at the low end to visually render titles that look like Gears of War 3.

CS2 looks great though, it shits on gears 3.

Valves new source engine is putting in the work.

i agree valorant and dota and other games aren't visually appealing but CS2 genuinely looks as good as most modern FPS games, it just doesn't have all the fluff that bogs down a call of duty or battlefield.

 

[PanzerCute]

I remember playing multiplayer games like UT, original Battlefield’s and even console titles like Gears of War 3 and being blown away at the visuals.

Today, almost every multiplayer title has that same shitty visual style of painting on meshes -

This is Counter-Strike 2 (For OGs I’m not even kidding); Valve is probably the worst developer out of the bunch that uses this shitty style in their games post Portal 2.

Valorant

Dota 2

And the lists goes on of muliplayer titles using this style. To me (in my opinion) it comes across as these developers are not even trying at all, just bare minimum efforts, and new gamers let them get away with it because they don’t know any better.

Let me introduce you to Hunt Showdown:

This game by Crytek is 6 years old btw

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

CS2 looks great though, it shits on gears 3.

Valves new source engine is putting in the work.

i agree valorant and dota and other games aren't visually appealing but CS2 genuinely looks as good as most modern FPS games, it just doesn't have all the fluff that bogs down a call of duty or battlefield.

Come on StueyDuck, I don't think you really believe this. Valve's new source engine has been a straight disappointment, the feature set scales like absolute ass; At least with Fortnite you can throw something like a 4090 at it and scale up the Unreal Engine feature set to utilize somewhat of your hardware.

Let me introduce you to Hunt Showdown:

This game by Crytek is 6 years old btw

If Crytek was to make this title today and followed like every other developer they would of just had their artists paint over the meshes and call it a day, that's not a good standard at all to be some of the best developers in the world.

 

[StueyDuck]

Come on StueyDuck, I don't think you really believe this. Valve's new source engine has been a straight disappointment, the feature set scales like absolute ass; At least with Fortnite you can throw something like a 4090 at it and scale up the Unreal Engine feature set to utilize somewhat of your hardware.


If Crytek was to make this title today and followed like every other developer they would of just had their artists paint over the meshes and call it a day, that's not a good standard at all to be some of the best developers in the world.

yes but cryengine runs like shit most of the time. I play the Hunt: Showdown during beta and as it released and it was virtually impossible to get a solid performance out of the title, and i wouldn't be surprised if that's still the case.

also you clearly haven't played half life alyx. The new source tech is great and it runs on potatoes.

 

[March Climber]

Racing and Fighting games? Definitely.

This thread seems to have oddly chosen shooters as the point of discussion though. Easy target I guess.

 

[PanzerCute]

If Crytek was to make this title today and followed like every other developer they would of just had their artists paint over the meshes and call it a day, that's not a good standard at all to be some of the best developers in the world

Not sure: Crytek always had these realistic graphics in their games, that's their DNA since Far Cry 1.

But as you indirectly point out, even if Hunt can be considered a successful game it is far behind games using the kind of art direction OP mentioned in his post.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

yes but cryengine runs like shit most of the time. I play the Hunt: Showdown during beta and as it released and it was virtually impossible to get a solid performance out of the title, and i wouldn't be surprised if that's still the case.

also you clearly haven't played half life alyx. The new source tech is great and it runs on potatoes.

I'm looking at video feeds right now of Hunt: Showdown and I'm seeing low entry cards run this title over a 100 frames, so it's not the case, StueyDuck.



I personally feel the new source engine is way below the standards for a developer like Valve. Portal RTX remix was more exciting for me than anything Valve published from a visual pov; I can guarantee you that if old Valve and old fans like myself were still that status quo the new source engine would of had a wider range of features supporting low end hardware all the way up to high end hardware with Valve being at the forefront of ray tracing support, I'm telling you.

Not sure: Crytek always had these realistic graphics in their games, that's their DNA since Far Cry 1.

But as you indirectly point out, even if Hunt can be considered a successful game it is far behind games using the kind of art direction OP mentioned in his post.

Trust me I miss Crytek. If you been around long enough then you definitely feel the void too of not having them be active like they use to be on the PC platform.

 

[Von Hugh]

Probably the trifecta of larger player base, diminishing returns and the graphics looking "good enough".

Developers need to make the games run for everybody, making true graphical leaps would demand large resources, and the games nowadays don't look like Legos anymore (unless you actually play Lego games, Minecraft or Roblox).

 

[StueyDuck]

I'm looking at video feeds right now of Hunt: Showdown and I'm seeing low entry cards run this title over a 100 frames, so it's not the case, StueyDuck.



I personally feel the new source engine is way below the standards for a developer like Valve. Portal RTX remix was more exciting for me than anything Valve published from a visual pov; I can guarantee you that if old Valve and old fans like myself were still that status quo the new source engine would of had a wider range of features supporting low end hardware all the way up to high end hardware with Valve being at the forefront of ray tracing support, I'm telling you.



Trust me I miss Crytek. If you been around long enough then you definitely feel the void too of not having them be active like they use to be on the PC platform.

Hunt didn't come out last week you know.

Also play half life alyx then we'll talk. It's a vr game that looks better than most modern AAA games. Ray tracing is still largely a gimmick compared to the extreme cost on resources, there's like 2 games that have legitimate path traced raytracing.

You are also getting too caught up in technologies vs visual fidelity. Cs2 is clean as hell game, and as said before it runs on potatoes.

I've played hunt showdown, mostly at launch, and while it makes great screenshots, I remember in motion the game wasn't too appealing, I remember screen space reflections being really ugly in that game. I also remember the motion blur being dialed up to like 1000

Now it's a gaas so it's probably better now but at launch the game ran like ass and wasn't a very clean image.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

Probably the trifecta of larger player base, diminishing returns and the graphics looking "good enough".

Developers need to make the games run for everybody, making true graphical leaps would demand large resources, and the games nowadays don't look like Legos anymore (unless you actually play Lego games, Minecraft or Roblox).

I thought this was the case too which is why I didn't pay any mind to developers using the visual style I pointed out in the OP but unfortunately it's not the case; Logically speaking, eventually we are going to have integrated cards that can run PS5 and Xbox Series X titles, however you're going to have games that look worst than titles on these platforms because developers are going to just paint over the meshes and not even bother to try. Today, we can have more interesting and better looking titles than Counter Strike 2, Valorant ect. without cutting edge technology if the developer actually tried, even at the integrated solution we can run titles that look like Gears of War 3.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Readability and clarity is significantly more important in multiplayer. Detail comes at the expense of a games playability. You have to remember, multiplayer gamers are gameplay oriented. The foo foo stuff ain't for us.

 

[TxKnight7]

Crysis 2/3 Multiplayer

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

Hunt didn't come out last week you know.

Also play half life alyx then we'll talk. It's a vr game that looks better than most modern AAA games. Ray tracing is still largely a gimmick compared to the extreme cost on resources, there's like 2 games that have legitimate path traced raytracing.

You are also getting too caught up in technologies vs visual fidelity. Cs2 is clean as hell game, and as said before it runs on potatoes.

I've played hunt showdown, mostly at launch, and while it makes great screenshots, I remember in motion the game wasn't too appealing, I remember screen space reflections being really ugly in that game. I also remember the motion blur being dialed up to like 1000

Now it's a gaas so it's probably better now but at launch the game ran like ass and wasn't a very clean image.

Readability and clarity is significantly more important in multiplayer. Detail comes at the expense of a games playability. You have to remember, multiplayer gamers are gameplay oriented. The foo foo stuff ain't for us.

Lol man y'all fans today just be defending these companies. This is why golf is my new hobby.

 

[Griffon]

Tekken 8 looks amazing.

 

[Ozriel]

To me (in my opinion) it comes across as these developers are not even trying at all

do you realize how daft they’d have to be as developers to make a multiplayer game in 2024 that was too demanding to scale to a wide range of hardware? including the Deck, for example?

and new gamers let them get away with it because they don’t know any better.

Are gamers supposed to show up at their houses with hammers?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Lol man y'all fans today just be defending these companies. This is why golf is my new hobby.

Golf. The greens are easily readable with very clear sand traps and water hazards with a pristine white ball that pops against the backdrop of a dark green grass.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

do you realize how daft they’d have to be as developers to make a multiplayer game in 2024 that was too demanding to scale to a wide range of hardware? including the Deck, for example?




Are gamers supposed to show up at their houses with hammers?

Who is playing Counter Strike on a shitty handheld device?

 

[Anthony Soprano]

To be fair, Hunt Showdown's promo videos and screenshots use some touchups or internal employee engine revision/hacks to make it look photorealistic.

However, the game still does look good.. but players don't really utilize high settings because it's detrimental to gameplay -- by not having foliage, shadows on low for more visibility, etc.

There is also an engine update coming out next month (August) that will port the game to the new Cryengine and drop support for the older consoles. This will hopefully make the game even more visually appealing.

With handheld PC (Steam Decks and others) market share increasing, I am doubtful we will see any meaningful push towards AAAA multiplayer graphics. Aside from the employee resource costs increasing when optimizing for low-end and mid hardware, you also have the game balance issues I cited with Hunt Showdown. That is, if someone can just crank their game down to low settings and de-render walls from far away in an effort to kill like a psychic and get unintended wallhacks, then people are going to become frustrated with the game.

 

[tmlDan]

lmfaoooo in what world is this true

 

[EverydayBeast]

My gut tells me developers listed in op cares about graphics at least they care I think these days “styles” is hitting people, 2010-15 there where Medal of Honor, battlefield 3, 4 were very good graphical multiplayer games.

 

[Dr. Acid Avatar]

The fuck? Helldivers 2 is beautiful.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

However, the game still does look good.. but players don't really utilize high settings because it's detrimental to gameplay -- by not having foliage, shadows on low for more visibility, etc.

What I loved about Counter Strike Source back then is that you still were able to play around with the physics system from the source engine, I believe Valve even updated CSS with features like bloom and hdr support. Basically you got to play CSS with a lot of the features you seen in their big Half Life 2 title. Today, even with Fortnite you can still experience a lot of the Unreal Engine features because Epic Games at least tried.

 

[Perrott]

Don't know what you're even talking about OP.

The Last Of Us Online is one of the most graphically impressive games of the moment, and is multiplayer.

 

[48086]

I don't know, bf 2042 looks pretty good to me.

 

[SABRE220]

I don't know, bf 2042 looks pretty good to me.

It looks worse than Battlefield One and 5....which were the best multiplayer graphics and tech in the industry. It's a great example of lowered standards and quality.