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Leak: Switch 2 to use Orin T239 Nvidia Soc , PS4 and PS4 pro performance Without DLSS

Kataploom

Gold Member
They only needed to rely on Wii U ports in the first 2 years of Switch while they were still combining their development pipelines into one device.

They haven't needed them for the other 5 years of Switch, so shouldn't need them for Switch 2 (we'll still get remakes and remasters though).
Funny thing is that Nintendo probably has some games finished idling until they decide to release them lol. They're probably working on Switch 2 games almost 100% and just releasing what they already had finished for current Switch (save for some almost done games).
 

Fake

Member
Fixed.
i still cant believe people think WiiU wasnt powerful done the PS360.

Wii U is less powerful than PS360 mind you.

There is no guesses here, most of the third parties run worse on Wii U than Xbox 360 and PS3. Digital Foundry already gave the veredict.
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
Wii U is less powerful than PS360 mind you.

There is no guesses here, most of the third parties run worse on Wii U than Xbox 360 and PS3. Digital Foundry already gave the veredict.
How you fit 2 GB of RAM + 32 MB of eDRAM into 512 (or 256 + 256) MB of RAM?
 

tkscz

Member
Wii U is less powerful than PS360 mind you.

There is no guesses here, most of the third parties run worse on Wii U than Xbox 360 and PS3. Digital Foundry already gave the veredict.
In terms of hardware and architecture, The WiiU was much more powerful than the PS360. Four times the ram (2GBs vs 512MBs), much newer GPU with GPGPU capabilities and, for the time, modern shaders and lighting effects, more stable CPU. The issue came down to clock speeds. The CPU of the WiiU was down at 1.24GHz while the PS360 CPUs were up in the 3GHz range. This would mean the rest of the hardware was slow and developers at the time would mention how slow the RAM was, regardless of there being four times as much. Imagine a game that was programmed to run on hardware that was 3 times faster than what it's being ported to. Suddenly that game would run much worse. Wouldn't matter if the other hardware could run more complex code more stable than the previous hardware, the game wasn't using that code to begin with. Doesn't matter if there is more memory if the game was never programmed with that much memory in mind. That low clock speed caused a lot of issues with ports that you wouldn't see on games with either dedicated versions or games made specifically for the WiiU.
 

Woopah

Member
Funny thing is that Nintendo probably has some games finished idling until they decide to release them lol. They're probably working on Switch 2 games almost 100% and just releasing what they already had finished for current Switch (save for some almost done games).
Almost certainly. They sat on Fire Emblem Awakening for a while and are probably sitting on the Fire Emblem 4 remake as we speak. I wouldn't be surprised if Mario Wonder is already finished.

Most likely there are others.
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
In terms of hardware and architecture, The WiiU was much more powerful than the PS360. Four times the ram (2GBs vs 512MBs), much newer GPU with GPGPU capabilities and, for the time, modern shaders and lighting effects, more stable CPU. The issue came down to clock speeds. The CPU of the WiiU was down at 1.24GHz while the PS360 CPUs were up in the 3GHz range. This would mean the rest of the hardware was slow and developers at the time would mention how slow the RAM was, regardless of there being four times as much. Imagine a game that was programmed to run on hardware that was 3 times faster than what it's being ported to. Suddenly that game would run much worse. Wouldn't matter if the other hardware could run more complex code more stable than the previous hardware, the game wasn't using that code to begin with. Doesn't matter if there is more memory if the game was never programmed with that much memory in mind. That low clock speed caused a lot of issues with ports that you wouldn't see on games with either dedicated versions or games made specifically for the WiiU.
This is true, I think the problem was Wii U development was mostly GPU oriented while PS360 were more CPU oriented. Different approaches with different strength... In fact, it was said that PS3 CPU was even more powerful than those on PS4 and Xbone.
 

tkscz

Member
This is true, I think the problem was Wii U development was mostly GPU oriented while PS360 were more CPU oriented. Different approaches with different strength... In fact, it was said that PS3 CPU was even more powerful than those on PS4 and Xbone.
The Cell CPU was ridiculously advanced for it's time, so I have no doubt it was better than the Jaguar CPU in the PS4/Xbone. That said, the ARM CPU in the Switch is better than the Jaguar CPU. That was one of AMD's worst CPUs ever.
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
The Cell CPU was ridiculously advanced for it's time, so I have no doubt it was better than the Jaguar CPU in the PS4/Xbone. That said, the ARM CPU in the Switch is better than the Jaguar CPU. That was one of AMD's worst CPUs ever.
That's news to me, damn... I always thought it was actually one of the bottlenecks for some games
 

Azelover

Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
512 GB (plus the SD card slot). As for carts I wouldn't be surprised if most games get the Jedi Survivor treatment where you have to download the rest of the game.
That's the way of the future IMO. But I also think Nintendo is a little old fashioned for that right now. By the time they get into that practice we will be used to it..
 

JimboJones

Member
I do wonder about the media the next switch will use, Steamdeck does seem to be getting away with using SD cards.
I do hope the CPU and read speeds are a decent step up though 🙏.
 

Xellos

Member
I do wonder about the media the next switch will use, Steamdeck does seem to be getting away with using SD cards.
I do hope the CPU and read speeds are a decent step up though 🙏.

I'd love to see SSD support but it will probably be SD cards. They're hard to beat for a portable console in terms of price, power consumption, ease of use, and availability. If speed is a concern Nintendo could do what PS5 does and have the console suggest installation to built-in storage if SD card is too slow.
 
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Fake

Member
In terms of hardware and architecture, The WiiU was much more powerful than the PS360. Four times the ram (2GBs vs 512MBs), much newer GPU with GPGPU capabilities and, for the time, modern shaders and lighting effects, more stable CPU. The issue came down to clock speeds. The CPU of the WiiU was down at 1.24GHz while the PS360 CPUs were up in the 3GHz range. This would mean the rest of the hardware was slow and developers at the time would mention how slow the RAM was, regardless of there being four times as much. Imagine a game that was programmed to run on hardware that was 3 times faster than what it's being ported to. Suddenly that game would run much worse. Wouldn't matter if the other hardware could run more complex code more stable than the previous hardware, the game wasn't using that code to begin with. Doesn't matter if there is more memory if the game was never programmed with that much memory in mind. That low clock speed caused a lot of issues with ports that you wouldn't see on games with either dedicated versions or games made specifically for the WiiU.

Wii U have a weaker GPU than Xbox 360 and a weaker CPU than PS3. This have nothing to do with vram. You guys are so focused into the specs that forget Nintendo was criticized for not having the basics back in time. Don't matter what their GPU can do in comparison with the competition if their advantages only stick on the paper.
Nintendo gaming API was less efficient than even the PS3. Of all consoles of that generation, PS3 have the stronger CPU, but thats not mean is less problematic. Devs got a hard time coding games using the PS3 CELL architecture.

Thats why devs are right now exploring what Nintendo Switch can do, because even having lower configuration than PS4/Xbox One, they are extracting much more with an improved gaming API.

I ask you guys to rewatch all Digital Foundry videos in this matter. For example, Digital Foundry Resident Evil 5 port. Even Nvidia Shield having similar specs of better than Nintendo Switch, RE5 runs poorly in comparison with Nintendo Switch.


Another great video I would recommend is the Digital Foundry Wii U launch presentation.



How you fit 2 GB of RAM + 32 MB of eDRAM into 512 (or 256 + 256) MB of RAM?

Can't say about what devs can or not with the amount of power given, but third party games do runs worst on Wii U in comparison with PS3 and Xbox 360. Assasin Creed, Batman AC, Call of Duty... you name it.

Remember, PS4 have 8GB GDDR5 and devs are saying is already outdated or not enough for today standarts.
 
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KingT731

Member
Even then, GPU was way better due to efficiency and more modern feature set alone and RAM was just enormous in comparison, I don't think Nintendo could do Zelda BOTW if it wasn't for the RAM.

For that sole reason, not even counting PBR, deferred rendering and real time global illumination which were posible but at way higher cost in PS360 and I don't believe all at once even in linear cinematic games, the RAM requirements is what would make Zelda BOTW impossible in 7th gen machines... And the differences in RAM is so big (PS3: 256MB + 256MB, X360: 512MB, Wii U: 2GB) that "making it fit" wouldn't work without redesigning the whole game.

And Wii U also had a 32 MB of eDRAM so yeah, games made for it were way beyond the possibilities of those other consoles.
Obviously.....It's also why it's funny that people are surprised when the Switch can run PS3/360 games
 

Fake

Member
Obviously.....It's also why it's funny that people are surprised when the Switch can run PS3/360 games

I actually more surprise when Switch can't run PS360 games at 60 fps with is kinda nuts.

There is much confusion around this, NS can easily run PS360 games at better resolution/frame rate.

Just comparing Portal 2 on Xbox 360 vs Nintendo Switch is the best example.
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
I actually more surprise when Switch can't run PS360 games at 60 fps with is kinda nuts.

There is much confusion around this, NS can easily run PS360 games at better resolution/frame rate.

Just comparing Portal 2 on Xbox 360 vs Nintendo Switch is the best example.
IDK about portal but I've seen footage of Dark Souls running at 18-23 fps constantly (not in busy moments) in X360 and that game doesn't even reaches 720p afaik, and I played it on Switch at 1080p 30fps locked (or so they felt)
 

NahaNago

Member
The only thing I can say is that Nintendo will be launching the Switch 2, two years after the release of the Steam Deck. And they'd surely have better whole sale pricing than Valve. But to get to 3TFs, it might cause for the Switch 2 to cost $399.

So 2 TFs seem more likely if they want to stay at $299.
I think the issue I'm having with the switch 2 is that I'm sure Nintendo is going to have some expensive feature added to it to bump the price and so the specs will be similar or weaker to the steam deck. Now the purchasing of parts should be cheaper that what Valve pays but by how much.
 

Astral Dog

Member
Even then, GPU was way better due to efficiency and more modern feature set alone and RAM was just enormous in comparison, I don't think Nintendo could do Zelda BOTW if it wasn't for the RAM.

For that sole reason, not even counting PBR, deferred rendering and real time global illumination which were posible but at way higher cost in PS360 and I don't believe all at once even in linear cinematic games, the RAM requirements is what would make Zelda BOTW impossible in 7th gen machines... And the differences in RAM is so big (PS3: 256MB + 256MB, X360: 512MB, Wii U: 2GB) that "making it fit" wouldn't work without redesigning the whole game.

And Wii U also had a 32 MB of eDRAM so yeah, games made for it were way beyond the possibilities of those other consoles.
I agree, Wii U was a notch above the PS3/360 consoles, but only if you focused on its strenghts,like developers taking the time to put real effort in their engine,and know the Wii U strange inner workings

But that Wii U was a weird machine,most games only had access to 1GB of RAM,with BotW being the sole exception.
It was a different configuration than PS3/360 and in practice it functioned more as a seventh generation HD Wii for Nintendo's teams,and a half step towards the Switch,hence all the focus on low power consumption

Wii U still provided fairly impressive looking games such as Mario Kart 8,Xenoblade X,Bayonetta 2 and Breath of the Wild
 
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Arsic

Loves his juicy stink trail scent
In a perfect world if switch 2 is not only backwards compatible, but gives certain games fps boosts I’d be there day one.

Examples:
Xenoblade chronicles 2&3
Zelda ToTK

I don’t even need major visual boosts. Like if it did 1080p 60fps handheld for those 3 games I’d bust.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I think the issue I'm having with the switch 2 is that I'm sure Nintendo is going to have some expensive feature added to it to bump the price and so the specs will be similar or weaker to the steam deck. Now the purchasing of parts should be cheaper that what Valve pays but by how much.

Good point!
 

Fake

Member
It's nice to have opinions....


The only element where that might be true is in the CPU.

People keep forgeting that there is a limit to the resources devs are allowed to use, so big numbers don't bring much to the table.
As I mention before, Assassin Creed 3, Batman Arkham City, Call of Duty... all run worse on Wii U in comparison with PS360, maybe match to match with PS3 because PS3 have a huge reputation of running third parties worse than Xbox 360.
We are facing the same problem today. Xbox Series X have a higher configuration than PS5, but most of the third parties are running better on PS5. Sony did their homework building a better gaming API than Xbox using something similar to Directx 12.

Don't even waste time pointing first party studios because they usually know better than third party to use their machines.
 
Nintendo's biggest failure there was they didn't try to anticipate where tech would be, and already looked ridiculously dated with the Wii U compared to the PS4/XB1, when they didn't even have the casual novelty appeal anymore. And it was harder to develop for too.
 
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Astral Dog

Member
Nintendo's biggest failure there was they didn't try to anticipate where tech would be, and already looked ridiculously dated with the Wii U compared to the PS4/XB1, when they didn't even have the casual novelty appeal anymore. And it was harder to develop for too.
Nintendo knew the direction they were going through, Wii U already was a half step, console games without TV,very low power consumption.their intention was to combine their home console and handheld into one system

If Wii U had been stronger,there wouldn't have been Wii U to Switch ports.the tech for the Switch wasn't possible at the time the Wii U released (or very expensive) at the end it paid off for them to focus on portable hardware,even with the Wii U failure
 
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Bojji

Member
Is this accurate, in terms of power ranking or tech capability in the console space?

360 - PS3 - Wii U - Switch - Xbox One - PS4 - PS4 Pro - Xbox One X - Xbox Series S - Xbox Series X / PS5 - Pro Consoles - Next Gen

Maybe the Switch 2 sits somewhere between the PS4 and PS4 Pro, but utilises DLSS and other new techniques to deliver a few current gen games at much lower resolution/framerate/graphics. 🤷‍♂️

Wii 2 will be exactly there, stronger than Xbox one for sure but also significantly weaker than PS4 pro.

With enough RAM, CPU power (probably stronger than jaguars lol) and DLSS it wil produce decent results.

Problem is, as always Nintendo fanboys are over hyping system capabilities and expect PS5 graphics...
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
The son of bitches need to make it 10
1980s style cell phone and dense batteries like the forklift so go for the gold to get 10 hour life and 50w power I have spoke
 
Has to be better

Under Snapdragon XR gen 2 would be incredibly awkward. Qualcomm did propose the chipset to Nintendo, so picking Nvidia over a chipset that will be mass produced, is proven to be cheap and performs in the 2.4TFlop range for a chipset made by nvidia for under Steam deck's 1.4 TFlop?

I mean.. Nintendo right.. but Nvidia must have some pride also to showcase their tech on console space.

Also the idea that Nvidia would propose Nintendo to scale to 4TF to meet PS4 pro is ridiculous. There's no way they aim for that nowadays, the age of native brute force is over. It could reach PS4 pro quality with the usual dock overclock and DLSS. The architectures have changed so much too between then and now. 2.5~3 Tflops from Nvidia's recent architectures ain't playing fair with AMD's PS4 solutions. PS4 pro with Jaguar CPUs :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Steam deck is actually 1.6TF
 

zeldaring

Banned
Wii U have a weaker GPU than Xbox 360 and a weaker CPU than PS3. This have nothing to do with vram. You guys are so focused into the specs that forget Nintendo was criticized for not having the basics back in time. Don't matter what their GPU can do in comparison with the competition if their advantages only stick on the paper.
Nintendo gaming API was less efficient than even the PS3. Of all consoles of that generation, PS3 have the stronger CPU, but thats not mean is less problematic. Devs got a hard time coding games using the PS3 CELL architecture.

Thats why devs are right now exploring what Nintendo Switch can do, because even having lower configuration than PS4/Xbox One, they are extracting much more with an improved gaming API.

I ask you guys to rewatch all Digital Foundry videos in this matter. For example, Digital Foundry Resident Evil 5 port. Even Nvidia Shield having similar specs of better than Nintendo Switch, RE5 runs poorly in comparison with Nintendo Switch.


Another great video I would recommend is the Digital Foundry Wii U launch presentation.





Can't say about what devs can or not with the amount of power given, but third party games do runs worst on Wii U in comparison with PS3 and Xbox 360. Assasin Creed, Batman AC, Call of Duty... you name it.

Remember, PS4 have 8GB GDDR5 and devs are saying is already outdated or not enough for today standarts.

It really is silly that people Still debate this? The hardware couldn't run games better at best if you Wanna argue they are on par but saying the hardware is more powerful when it can't run games better is stupid. Same for ps3 vs 360.
 

Buggy Loop

Member
Deck is 1.6TF, but when comparing handhelds the power consumption and battery life is more important. Deck is consuming 26-28W with ~60-80min battery life to get to its max performance. Switch 2 will probably be running 8-10W.

I fumbled my fingers with 1.6 and 2.4 and made 1.4.. corrected.

Snapdragon is very efficient, these things were made for cellphones, although throttled, but in a Quest 3 with passive cooling they’re expected to go high
 

Fake

Member
It really is silly that people Still debate this? The hardware couldn't run games better at best if you Wanna argue they are on par but saying the hardware is more powerful when it can't run games better is stupid. Same for ps3 vs 360.

I avoid those types of conversation because either they ignore the list of gaming running bad on Wii U in comparison with PS360 or they just spam this stupid 'LOL' reaction.

At this point neoGAF reputation procedes. I mean, most of the fanboys here spend a load of unhealth time fightning inside Digital Foundry threads arguing that even PS5 with lesser specs than Series X are still beating than, but when come to Wii U they argue that Wii U specs are better than PS360, when third party games run poorly and some of the Wii U resources are allocated to the tablet thing.
 

zeldaring

Banned
I avoid those types of conversation because either they ignore the list of gaming running bad on Wii U in comparison with PS360 or they just spam this stupid 'LOL' reaction.

At this point neoGAF reputation procedes. I mean, most of the fanboys here spend a load of unhealth time fightning inside Digital Foundry threads arguing that even PS5 with lesser specs than Series X are still beating than, but when come to Wii U they argue that Wii U specs are better than PS360, when third party games run poorly and some of the Wii U resources are allocated to the tablet thing.
Yeah its hilarious and they will then bring up xenoblade x which looks like trash. Best way to judge hardware is just look at ports if the hardware ain't running most ports better then it ain't more powerful any meaningful way. It was the same with ps3. It's a piece of tech designed to run games if can't do that how can u call it more powerful?
 

boo

Gold Member
To this day, I consider Xenoblade Chronicles X to be the most immersive exploritative open world game I have ever played.

As for the power of systems, I look at the games being made from the ground up for the system in question, made by the people that have really learned the systems and their various idiocyncracies, whatever they may be.

Only then can you know what a system is truly capable of.

Just my two cents from an old guy whose coding abilities were limited to coding in Basic from British computer magazines.
 

zeldaring

Banned
To this day, I consider Xenoblade Chronicles X to be the most immersive exploritative open world game I have ever played.

As for the power of systems, I look at the games being made from the ground up for the system in question, made by the people that have really learned the systems and their various idiocyncracies, whatever they may be.

Only then can you know what a system is truly capable of.

Just my two cents from an old guy whose coding abilities were limited to coding in Basic from British computer magazines.
Games from the ground up don't tell you the power of the system, that's more about the developers talent.
 
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