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[GymWolf]

Every viewer saw through Joel's lies because we saw what actually happened. LOL


What you're saying is not how it happened in the game. She wasn't living a happy life with the lie because there was an obvious problem with their relationship and that caused a problem.

I'm not talking about us, but what ellies was thinking, and it was pretty clear unless we do some history revisionism.

And yes, for a girl who was dying inside because she had a doubt, she looked pretty fucking normal.

Again, the weight of being the world saviour is not something that you put in the back of your mind for years, especially when your overly exagerate mad reaction make you look like it was the most important thing in the world for you.

People in real life with way lighter traumas than not being able to save the world can't have functional relationship\lives dude, she is not depicted like not saving the world was destroying her or some shit until that fucking confession.

I'm just not ok with her acting like a surprise pikachu and overly mad when a smart girl like her should have known 95% of what joel did because there was no way of a pacific resolution to that, if she was a clueless retard than you would have been right, but we both know it's not true.

Her being so mad is fucking hilarious after she accepted the lie for his best interest for years.

 

[EruditeHobo]

Those details are important when they tried to retcon shit in the second game.

The fireflies being smarter than fucking doctors and able to find a cure or being a bunch of clueless assholes change your view on what joel did.

Doesn't matter if they can find a cure and mobilize to the entire world or not -- the point is it seemed plausible and worth a shot for the greater good.

There was no "retconning" at all, those arguments are all pathetically weak. There's no need to retcon if you understand the entire point of the first game.

Regardless, this is a thread about the show, and the show is even more clear than the first game in terms of Joel's actions. So I don't know why this is such a talking point here, maybe take it to a TLOU2 game thread?

The point remains either way -- a game about inhaling fungus and turning into a zombie has people going "what does the regional rollout plan look like for this supposed vaccine?? why weren't we given that specific information??"... it's dumb and honestly just reeks of bad faith and/or cluelessness.

 

[GymWolf]

Doesn't matter if they can find a cure and mobilize to the entire world or not -- the point is it seemed plausible and worth a shot for the greater good.

There was no "retconning" at all, those arguments are all pathetically weak. There's no need to retcon if you understand the entire point of the first game.

Regardless, this is a thread about the show, and the show is even more clear than the first game in terms of Joel's actions. So I don't know why this is such a talking point here, maybe take it to a TLOU2 game thread?

It makes a lot of difference if the fireflies are inepts or not but i don't actually care that much, i was just explaining why so many people care, i didn't even watched the serial.

 

[EruditeHobo]

It makes a lot of difference if the fireflies are inepts or not but i don't actually care that much, i was just explaining why so many people care, i didn't even watched the serial.

Ok cool... it's concerning when people really do care about shit arguments.

Either way, the "vaccine/saving the world" context is really clear, both in the first game and (even moreso) in the series.

 

[Clear]

The biggest omission for me in the show was all the world-building along the way constantly reminding us that the Fireflies were failing. There was no weight to Marlene talking about their losses along the way to Salt Lake which I feel kinda undercut her desperation at the climax.

Decent adaptation, but the left behind episode should have been omitted as once again, it undercuts the whole "first to die" revelation in Salt Lake; making it mostly redundant as we already SAW what happened. You do the flashback AFTER the damn reveal! Not before.

 

[GymWolf]

Ok cool... it's concerning when people really do care about shit arguments.

Either way, the "vaccine/saving the world" context is really clear, both in the first game and (even moreso) in the series.

Lol i would not call the ability to actually make a cure or not a small detail or a bad argument to have tbh.

Good stories have nuances to let people talk about them, if it was all black and white it would be boring.

Joel gets a huge pass the moment you believe that the fireflies are killing a child while being clueless, it makes his action less damning for the entire world, him fucking up the planet or not is a huge deal for most.

 

[EruditeHobo]

The context is really clear -- Ellie is a chance at something really impactful. And she is looking to be part of something meaningful. And Joel doesn't want to let her go for the sake of that something better, not because the something better isn't clearly laid out to him but rather because he cares for this girl as a surrogate daughter after what they've been through. It's that simple, that's the only thing needed.

I mean, in a story about fungal zombies, at least... lord knows the same scrutiny over making Joel "a bad guy" were applied to armies of breathable-spore zombie-monsters, we wouldn't be here.

And again, if you saw the show you'd know the context is made even MORE clear there.

 

[DragoonKain]

She's not just looking to be part of something meaningful, but I think she wants to make up for the lives lost that she blames herself for and thinks using herself as a cure can do that.

The cool thing about the plot is Ellie and Joel are both trying to avoid blaming themselves for things. Ellie wants to do something so she no longer has to blame herself for those who died helping her. Saving the world with a cure is her chance at redemption. Even if those deaths weren't her fault, she thinks they were. And Joel wants to do something to avoid blaming himself for the loss of his daughter and saving Ellie is his chance at redemption.

 

[Ulysses 31]

You continue to completely miss the point.

What point exactly? That it doesn't matter if and how the Fireflies could've saved millions with the vaccine? That the writer's intention simply was to present opposing viewpoints with big consequences to the player/viewer?

I think it matters for the weight of Joel's decision and the morality of story being told, in one instance it's complex and murky, in the other it's simple if Ellie was going to die a pointless death.

 

[engstra]

Great season finale! This was a damn good adaption of the game and happy that people who otherwise never would get the opportunity to experience the story finally got to.

Was a bit concerned by how the series started. Definitely found the first episode to be rough but episode 2 was a massive improvement and Episode 3 was fantastic and solidified the show as not being a generic zombie show. Certain moments the story felt rushed but it can't drag on in the same way the game does. Tbf I felt like they did that in episode 6, and it really ground the pace of the show to a halt after the banger episode 5 was.

Overall it's a 8.5/10 show. Some of the episodes and scenes hit a lot harder for me in the show than in the game. Hospital scene felt much more brutal in the way Joel kills without emotion or mercy.

Can't wait to see how they adapt Part 2, the cope of that game is just so much grander. Have they announced a timeframe for that?

 

[RJMacready73]

Damn good show and adaptation of an amazing game, the only criticism i have is they should've made the first game 2 seasons, it all blew by so quickly and with the incredible world building and talent involved I would've loved them to expand and offer new stories, like the Bill episode done so brilliantly. I just wanted more, Pedro absolutely fucking nailed it as Joel, especially his brutality and Bella simply grew into her part as Ellie

 

[VulcanRaven]

Ellie is a huge hypocrite in tlou 2.

We know that she knew joel was lying to her, but she still enjoyed her life with joel, dina and the others just to have that exagerate reaction when joel confess, but the whole point of the first game ending was that she knew the truth or at least that joel was lying and just accepted the fact, so is she bipolar or just a hypocrite?

She didn't acted like a miserable unhappy person with survival\jesus complex before joel confession, at worse she was a bit moody.

I hated her in that moment, ok joel did the wrong thing but you fucking enjoyed the life he gave to you by risking his own, if she REALLY cared about the destiny of the world she would have called joel's bullshit immediately after the hospital scene, why waiting? So you can live an happy life for a while?

What an ungrateful bitch on top of her imaginary high morality horse.

She probably felt that Joel was lying but wasn't sure. She didn't know Joel killed so many to save her.

 

[GymWolf]

She probably felt that Joel was lying but wasn't sure. She didn't know Joel killed so many to save her.

Nah, she is a smart girl (i think), she should have known that if joel took her out of there he must have used violence, he passed like one year with the man, he saw the worst of him and she knows that fireflies only goal is to find a cure and just words would not be nearly enough to convince them to let her go after they wasted so many lives and years for their believings, no way in hell she is so stupid to think that it was a peacefull conclusion, it would really make her a clueless idiot.

She wasn't sure, but she was sure enough to risk her life to go there alone and risking of getting killed to CONFIRM the truth, it wasn't a small doubt at all, you don't risk your life and happiness for a small hunch.

 

[Eiknarf]

Man. Whoever is gonna get cast as Abby better not be on social media lol

Shannon Berry

 

[Stooky]

Ellie is a huge hypocrite in tlou 2.

We know that she knew joel was lying to her, but she still enjoyed her life with joel, dina and the others just to have that exagerate reaction when joel confess, but the whole point of the first game ending was that she knew the truth or at least that joel was lying and just accepted the fact, so is she bipolar or just a hypocrite?

She didn't acted like a miserable unhappy person with survival\jesus complex before joel confession, at worse she was a bit moody.

I hated her in that moment, ok joel did the wrong thing but you fucking enjoyed the life he gave to you by risking his own, if she REALLY cared about the destiny of the world she would have called joel's bullshit immediately after the hospital scene, why waiting? So you can live an happy life for a while?

What an ungrateful bitch on top of her imaginary high morality horse.

Interesting take, Makes her more human.

 

[kyliethicc]

 

[Nydius]

I can't say much that hasn't already been added in the 80 pages of this thread. As someone who played the game multiple times, I was happy with the way they (mostly) stuck to the source material. Some of it felt rushed but I suppose that's the inevitable result of trying to compress a long form game into an episodic TV event.

I was more interested in how it would be received by my non-gamer wife. She didn't watch me play TLOU, so she went into this blind. She had no idea the twist was coming in the hospital, nor how Joel would react, and to say she was shocked during the whole sequence would be an understatement. Her biggest complaints were not enough zombies so she didn't really feel like Ellie's "specialness" mattered that much and they didn't spend much time establishing the Fireflies or FEDRA so she didn't care about any of them.

After the credits closed out of Episode 9, she said "I like Joel, I hope there's a second season."

I don't have the heart to tell her what's coming.

 

[EruditeHobo]

What point exactly? That it doesn't matter if and how the Fireflies could've saved millions with the vaccine?

Yes, very obviously, since "saving millions via a fully realized vaccine rollout" aren't the exact stakes, either narratively or emotionally. The stakes are that the Fireflies (and Ellie, btw) have a chance to do something which requires Ellie to sacrifice herself and feel it is worth the risk, and that is set opposite Joel who is having none of it because of his personal connection to Ellie. This is really thoroughly documented in all forms of the story, at this point.

I don't know why this needs to be repeated a hundred times, since if it didn't land for you 3 years ago there's no reason to think it will land now... but I guess since we're here I'll repeat it this one last time.

I think it matters for the weight of Joel's decision and the morality of story being told, in one instance it's complex and murky, in the other it's simple if Ellie was going to die a pointless death.

Yeah and it's clear that in terms of the beliefs of everyone involved as represented in all forms of the story, her death is never at all being treated by anyone as "pointless". Joel doesn't stop them because he feels her death and their experiments will be pointless.

No one cares that you, for really poor reasons, believe her death at the Firefly hospital would be "pointless" -- that's not supported by a full-context engagement with the story as represented in all three of part I, part II, and the HBO show.

 

[EruditeHobo]

Damn good show and adaptation of an amazing game, the only criticism i have is they should've made the first game 2 seasons.

Agreed.

 

[GooseMan69]

I think the whole violence begets more violence and the cycle of revenge aspect of the game was kinda lame at the end. I mean we can take the ending of TLOU2, and chart out the entire story of TLOU3. Abby goes home, gets PTSD, finds out where Ellie is and goes to kill her. Ellie and her have yet another fight. Ellie bites her tits off and Abby learns to forgive her. And on and on we go.

A better story would've been showing Ellie and Joel working together to fix their relationship as they go hunting for Abby. Either for Tommy's death or Dina's. Using Joel's death as a plot device is just lame. I get that he was going for this meta MGS2 kind of gameplay experience but using Joel to do some meta experiment is kinda lame tbh. The death also forced him to write Ellie as a guilt ridden survivor with zero charm or charisma, and that hurt the story in the end because Abby was unlikable and Ellie was unlikeable and aside from Jessie and maybe Tommy, all the other characters were unlikeable.

I really hope Neil's learned from it not just for TLOU3, but also for whatever retcons he intends to do for the show. He's already changed Joel in the show A LOT. Maybe he did it to give him a better ending.

I don’t think killing Tommy off would’ve worked. Despite what Ellie says, I don’t think Joel would’ve sanctioned a revenge mission. He was old, tired, and done with violence at that point. Not to mention it would put Ellie at risk. Also, why would Abby’s group kill Tommy or Dina and then just fuck off back to Seattle? Joel is who they were looking for.

For me, Part 2’s overall premise is solid. The problem is the execution is a bit sloppy. There’s a few too many conveniences and contrivances. Like Joel just happening to meet Abby during the blizzard, a firefly arriving in Seattle who knows where Tommy lives, Abby’s group wearing WLF jackets so Ellie knows where to find them, etc. And characters travel miles and miles all willy nilly, often times by themselves. Like Tommy and Jesse both travel from Jackson to Seattle by themselves. Ellie goes back to the hospital by herself in the flashback sequence. Ellie, Dina, and Tommy somehow make it all the way back to Jackson while severely wounded. Then Ellie goes to Santa Barbara and back by herself. There are journal entries that detail a little bit of these trips, but not much. It just feels a little bit like you could feel Neil struggling to get everything into place so he could hit all the plot points and themes he wanted to cover.

Idk how this turned into me rambling about Part 2 lol. I love the game to death but yeah I do have some conflicting feelings about the story, like everyone else. I actually love the plot, characters, and structure. I just think Neil bit off a little more than he could chew, which caused some of the finer details to get lost in the shuffle.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

Ellie is a huge hypocrite in tlou 2.

We know that she knew joel was lying to her, but she still enjoyed her life with joel, dina and the others just to have that exagerate reaction when joel confess, but the whole point of the first game ending was that she knew the truth or at least that joel was lying and just accepted the fact, so is she bipolar or just a hypocrite?

She didn't acted like a miserable unhappy person with survival\jesus complex before joel confession, at worse she was a bit moody.

I hated her in that moment, ok joel did the wrong thing but you fucking enjoyed the life he gave to you by risking his own, if she REALLY cared about the destiny of the world she would have called joel's bullshit immediately after the hospital scene, why waiting? So you can live an happy life for a while?

What an ungrateful bitch on top of her imaginary high morality horse.

Playing along with a lie and having the truth out in the open are two different things. My guess is that it ate away at her for years until she got the confession, and her feelings boiled over.

And I wouldn't say she was ungrateful. If anything, she felt like she owed her life to Joel, hence the Terminator rampage she goes on in TLOU II to avenge him.

 

[GymWolf]

Playing along with a lie and having the truth out in the open are two different things. My guess is that it ate away at her for years until she got the confession, and her feelings boiled over.

And I wouldn't say she was ungrateful. If anything, she felt like she owed her life to Joel, hence the Terminator rampage she goes on in TLOU II to avenge him.

I think that is more related to the fact that she consider joel like the father she never had.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Yes, very obviously, since "saving millions via a fully realized vaccine rollout" aren't the exact stakes, either narratively or emotionally. The stakes are that the Fireflies (and Ellie, btw) have a chance to do something which requires Ellie to sacrifice herself and feel it is worth the risk, and that is set opposite Joel who is having none of it because of his personal connection to Ellie. This is really thoroughly documented in all forms of the story, at this point.

Sure but for that to work one must get the sense that the Fireflies have a realistic shot at making a vaccine, otherwise the stakes to the player/viewer simply become if Joel can save Ellie from delusional child killers. If that was the intention of the writers then they succeeded but my gut tells me it's not which is why I think they dropped the ball a bit at the end.

I don't know why this needs to be repeated a hundred times, since if it didn't land for you 3 years ago there's no reason to think it will land now... but I guess since we're here I'll repeat it this one last time.

And you don't seem to grasp that for whatever the writer's goals are, enough work(in this case fleshing out the Fireflies) has to be put in for those goals to resonate with players/viewers. For some there's enough in the game/show for that, for others like me there isn't.

Yeah and it's clear that in terms of the beliefs of everyone involved as represented in all forms of the story, her death is never at all being treated by anyone as "pointless". Joel doesn't stop them because he feels her death and their experiments will be pointless.

Pointless from the player/viewer perspective, the game/show actors do seem to believe that what they're doing is the right thing.

No one cares that you, for really poor reasons, believe her death at the Firefly hospital would be "pointless" -- that's not supported by a full-context engagement with the story as represented in all three of part I, part II, and the HBO show.

No one has to care, but I can post why I don't buy into the Fireflies had a good shot of saving millions that the games and show seem to push.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

I think that is more related to the fact that she consider joel like the father she never had.

Our two points aren't mutually exclusive, and I think we're both right. He saved her life, many times, not just from the Fireflies, and he's a father figure

 

[DragoonKain]

I love how TLOU has you questioning your own morality. Joel was ruthless, but I found myself rooting heavily for him when he’s going on his rampage. I honestly wouldn’t have minded it if it lasted for another couple minutes to make the brutality even greater.

Can never hate a dude for trying to protect his baby girl even if there’s a strong case it’s morally bad. Dude would’ve killed 1,000 people if he had to.

 

[DForce]

I'm not talking about us, but what ellies was thinking, and it was pretty clear unless we do some history revisionism.

And yes, for a girl who was dying inside because she had a doubt, she looked pretty fucking normal.

Again, the weight of being the world saviour is not something that you put in the back of your mind for years, especially when your overly exagerate mad reaction make you look like it was the most important thing in the world for you.

People in real life with way lighter traumas than not being able to save the world can't have functional relationship\lives dude, she is not depicted like not saving the world was destroying her or some shit until that fucking confession.

I'm just not ok with her acting like a surprise pikachu and overly mad when a smart girl like her should have known 95% of what joel did because there was no way of a pacific resolution to that, if she was a clueless retard than you would have been right, but we both know it's not true.

Her being so mad is fucking hilarious after she accepted the lie for his best interest for years.

What you're saying is not how things have been portrayed in the game.

There was obviously a disconnect between the two in the game BEFORE Ellie found out the truth. Something was bothering her, even in the second flashback. Ellie wasn't even speaking with Joel and Tommy said she would say hi and bye to him and that was the extent of their conversations.

Look at the first flashback, she was clearly uncomfortable with Joel being there.

You can't really get anywhere in the conversation when I point this stuff out and you go, "She accepted it and acted normal" when she didn't. lol

 

[dorkimoe]

Shannon Berry

wow she'd be perfect

 

[GymWolf]

What you're saying is not how things have been portrayed in the game.

There was obviously a disconnect between the two in the game BEFORE Ellie found out the truth. Something was bothering her, even in the second flashback. Ellie wasn't even speaking with Joel and Tommy said she would say hi and bye to him and that was the extent of their conversations.

Look at the first flashback, she was clearly uncomfortable with Joel being there.

You can't really get anywhere in the conversation when I point this stuff out and you go, "She accepted it and acted normal" when she didn't. lol

I never said that nothing was bothering her, she even risked her life to confirm what she already imagined in her head.

My point is, don't act so suprised or mad when:

1: you accepted a badly veiled lie that you never fully believed to live an happy life with joel.
2: you know what type of man joel is, and how desperate where the fireflies to find a cure, don't act suprised to know that joel killed an entire hospital to have his surrogate daughter back because the fireflies would never let her go without putting a major fight.

Her reaction is TOO exagerated if we take into account that she is a smart girl that can do 2+2 and that she accepted to live with a probable lie for years.

 

[EruditeHobo]

Sure but for that to work one must get the sense that the Fireflies have a realistic shot at making a vaccine...

Everyone in the story does believe that, which is all that matters. That's what you keep missing. Everything else is irrelevant.

 

[DForce]

I never said that nothing was bothering her, she even risked her life to confirm what she already imagined in her head.

My point is, don't act so suprised or mad when:

1: you accepted a badly veiled lie that you never fully believed to live an happy life with joel.
2: you know what type of man joel is, and how desperate where the fireflies to find a cure, don't act suprised to know that joel killed an entire hospital to have his surrogate daughter back because the fireflies would never let her go without putting a major fight.

Her reaction is TOO exagerated if we take into account that she is a smart girl that can do 2+2 and that she accepted to live with a probable lie for years.

How did she live a happy life with Joel when she was barely talking to him before finding out the truth? We even see this during the TV show. Ellie appears distant from Joel right before she asks him the question. I'm sure they consulted a lot of therapists when they wrote TLOU 1 and 2, and finally finding out the truth can cause a lot of emotional pain because all the doubt is gone.

EDIT:

Ellie also didn't know the extent of what Joel did.

Ellie: Maybe if you just coulda given them more time, they could have figured something out--

There are many possibilities.

She didn't know he killed the doctor, Marlene, or a lot of the Firefly soldiers. She could have thought that she took her out of there without killing anyone or just a few people. It's possible that she didn't even know Marlene made it to the Fireflies.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Everyone in the story does believe that, which is all that matters. That's what you keep missing. Everything else is irrelevant.

And I found it unconvincing writing when securitizing what we've been shown of the Fireflies. Ultimately, these products are made for players/viewers so I'd say what they think can have value too.

Surely you have a better standard than "that's just how it was written, no need to go into details".

 

[Woggleman]

I don't get the people saying that Ellie being a killer is unrealistic. When you play as her you can't just take down enemies with brute force. You have to be agile and be a good shot and stealthy especially on higher difficulties. On grounded you have to almost use guerilla tactics if you want to succeed.

 

[Ulysses 31]

A culture warrior gives his take on the season

 

[EruditeHobo]

Surely you have a better standard than "that's just how it was written, no need to go into details".

I do. Which is why I've engaged with a number of your actual arguments, over multiple years now, and they've all been incredibly weak.
Good enough for you isn't good enough.

It's pointless to go on we've done this over and over again. Your arguments are shit, and you seem to feel the same about mine... and that seems like a clear impasse, to me. In fact, it was clear 2.5 years ago when we first started doing this I'd say. Your arguments and selective thinking over the plot points in these stories haven't improved over time.

Feel free to get in the last word if you want but I'm not responding to you anymore. Feels like a waste of both of our time.

 

[Ulysses 31]

I do. Which is why I've engaged with a number of your actual arguments, over multiple years now, and they've all been incredibly weak.
Good enough for you isn't good enough.

It's pointless to go on we've done this over and over again. Your arguments are shit, and you seem to feel the same about mine... and that seems like a clear impasse, to me. In fact, it was clear 2.5 years ago when we first started doing this I'd say. Your arguments and selective thinking over the plot points in these stories haven't improved over time.

Feel free to get in the last word if you want but I'm not responding to you anymore. Feels like a waste of both of our time.

I find it weird to call a focus on a detail that impacts the moral complexity of the story as weak. "It's written that characters believe this huge claim and it doesn't matter how (un)realistic that claim is with what's been shown. The writer didn't intent for that (important) detail to be examined so if you question it, you're doing the story a disservice". Like it doesn't matter to you how the writer tries to get his story goals across, knowing the goal is sufficient.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

no there wasn't.

i assume you mean the bill and riley episodes? bill is in the game and riley is in the left behind dlc. i'd have rioted if left behind was left out. the bill episode isn't what is in the game but it's not filler.

Bill had a cameo in the game and his lover didn’t even have a line in the game.

Left Behind is a DLC that came in much later - the main game did just fine before it was released.

So, yes, they are fillers.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

A culture warrior gives his take on the season

I agree that we don’t really see the father-daughter relationship building up organically. This theme, which is the main theme of the story, is much superior in the game.

 

[DelireMan7]

A pretty good finale and overall great adaptation.

Felt a bit rushed knowing the game (flashbang => skip to the end) but I guess it's acceptable.

Not fully in for the "dramatic" atmosphere (slow mo, music...) they gave to the shooting sequence in the hospital.
The revelation to Joel for Ellie surgery still got me hard. Love that moment.

And well the end scene, nothing to say, similar to the game. It's great.

Also I don't remember in the game but not sure we get to see the flashback of Ellie's birth and explanation for her immunity (or at least not with so much exposure).
In the game I liked how the pandemic is just a context, and not much explain, as well Ellie's immunity and the focus is Joel/Ellie relation (and the show didn't focus enough on that). I didn't need detail on the pandemic or her immunity.
I felt that all the flashback scenes are unnecessary but it's personal since I think not everything need to have an explanation.

I have restarted the game after that. For 1 hour I was a bit "meh, too much slow walk etc..." but then the atmosphere got me good once again.
I love Joel and Ellie (on that I was skeptical in the show at the beginning, and now I confirm that I prefer her in the game. A good mix of fragile girl with though side. I never got the fragile side in the show).

Then now playing the game, I think they should have include more "gameplay" sequences in the show. Not a lot but a few more. Stealth and shooting are a big part of it but in the show you don't get much of it (as well as infected...).

 

[FunkMiller]

A pretty good finale and overall great adaptation.

Felt a bit rushed knowing the game (flashbang => skip to the end) but I guess it's acceptable.

This feels like the only major alteration that was entirely due to the budget.

Extended sequence of Joel and Ellie navigating their way through an infected filled subway, in a last, terrifying example of what Ellie's sacrifice could stop = £5,000,000.

or

Flashbang, fade to next scene = Like, a buck fifty.

 

[VulcanRaven]

Bella Ramsey says that she will probably be 20 when making season 2 so that means they might start filming next year or maybe even this year:

 

[Doczu]

Finished the season yesterday and i am taking my previous statement back. I liked it. It did rush through the story, but the important points were there.

And correct me if i'm wrong, but in the game there was no explanation how and why Ellie is immune, right? Or did i miss it?

Casting for the main roles was ok, though i think tv Ellie was a bit more agressive and "bitchy" here than in the game. Might reply it again.

Loved they added the dlc as an episode, the controversive Bill one wasn't bad. I didn't like the sex scenes (boo me) but their life story was a nice watch.

Not a fan of the excessive green screening, but i understand there was no other way for some scenery wide shots.

 

[DelireMan7]

Finished the season yesterday and i am taking my previous statement back. I liked it. It did rush through the story, but the important points were there.

And correct me if i'm wrong, but in the game there was no explanation how and why Ellie is immune, right? Or did i miss it?

Casting for the main roles was ok, though i think tv Ellie was a bit more agressive and "bitchy" here than in the game. Might reply it again.

Loved they added the dlc as an episode, the controversive Bill one wasn't bad. I didn't like the sex scenes (boo me) but their life story was a nice watch.

Not a fan of the excessive green screening, but i understand there was no other way for some scenery wide shots.

I am replaying it at the moment, haven't reach the end yet but I also don't recall that it was explain why Ellie is immune. It felt unnecessary for me. I like the "There was a pandemic and she's immune without much explanation" and then a focus on Joel/Ellie in the game. I guess for a TV show they felt like they needed to explain everything (I personally thing it's not need and take screen time for non important stuff).

Same "complaint" about Ellie. Much more aggressive in the show than in the game. I prefer the game version.

I also really liked the "DLC episode" despite not liking it in the game. Great episode.

I can't get behind Bill's (no pun intended, I guess)episode. It was nice to see the life after the outbreak and his life. But the whole episode on that... And I found really fast and awkward how him and Frank end up to bed. Actually Frank is a really weird guy/character. I just replayed this section of the game and I didn't remember how it was imply that he was in a relation with Frank. It's nicely done. But in the show Frank was kind of an "outlier" in this world.

As you stated, the story is well covered. I wish they added more "Joel/Ellie moments" AKA "gameplay section" into it. Few traversal of areas with infected and hard time together. To add to the bonding between the 2.
There was a bit too much focus on side character.

 

[Aggelos]

The Last of Us: The Complete First Season Blu-ray

www.blu-ray.com

Special Features and Technical Specs:

• NEW The Last of Us: Stranger Than Fiction – Series cast and filmmakers are joined by experts in survival, microbiology, and parasitology for a chilling discussion on the realities of the invasive fungus and subsequent apocalypse in The Last of Us.
• NEW Controllers Down: Adapting The Last of Us – Follow the journey of The Last of Us from console to screen as cast and filmmakers take us inside the process of expanding the world and breathing new life into the game's beloved characters.
• NEW From Levels to Live Action – Discover how The Last of Us incorporated and expanded fan-favorite game moments in the series
• Getting to Know Me (4 Featurettes)
• The Last Debrief with Troy Baker (2 Featurettes)
• Inside the Episode (9 Featurettes)
• Is This A The Last of Us Line? (2 Featurettes)
• Optional English SDH, Spanish, and French s8ubtitles for the main feature

 

[DragoonKain]

Hope there’s a steelbook version.

 

[EruditeHobo]

I am replaying it at the moment, haven't reach the end yet but I also don't recall that it was explain why Ellie is immune. It felt unnecessary for me. I like the "There was a pandemic and she's immune without much explanation" and then a focus on Joel/Ellie in the game. I guess for a TV show they felt like they needed to explain everything (I personally thing it's not need and take screen time for non important stuff).

That scene is about Marlene, not Ellie... it's to show Marlene was there from the beginning, trusted with Ellie's life by Ellie's mom, and was fulfilling Ellie's mom's wishes even when they were hard.

It makes the scene with Joel at the end when he kills Marlene that much more difficult.

I don't think it's necessary in the game, but to me it undeniably make the series better. Different things work better for different mediums...
Similarly, I would never change the Bill section in the game, either -- but in the show, the flashback episode they did, is far better storytelling for the non-interactive medium.

 

[Tripolygon]

I find it weird to call a focus on a detail that impacts the moral complexity of the story as weak. "It's written that characters believe this huge claim and it doesn't matter how (un)realistic that claim is with what's been shown. The writer didn't intent for that (important) detail to be examined so if you question it, you're doing the story a disservice". Like it doesn't matter to you how the writer tries to get his story goals across, knowing the goal is sufficient.

The detail does not impact the story or moral complexity of the characters in any way. It does not matter whether the fireflies believe they can find a cure (they do), whether you think they are incompetent (they are). You as a player can skip all the collectibles recording and Joel will still save Ellie because he sees her as a surrogate daughter. The story is about love, we can question ourselves whether we would doom the world to save one person we love, and people will be divided on that subject. Even if there was a guarantee that a cure will be made, will that change your answer?

Let's take a page out of the real world for a moment because it parallels the story in some ways,

4 years ago, we encountered covid 19.

Did we all have our shit together in the response to the pandemic? No
We were told to wear a mask but a good portion of us refused to wear the mask because "freedom."
1.3 million people died in the US from Covid because of how incompetent we handled the pandemic.
People with immunocompromised family members refused taking the vaccine leading to family members dying.

Competency on the fireflies' part or lack thereof does not change the moral complexity of the outcome in the story.

Edit: For fun i decided to ask new Bing AI same question.

Me: Does a guaranteed cure changes Joels choice to save Ellie in the last of us?

AI: According to the web search results, Joel’s choice to save Ellie in the last of us was not influenced by the guarantee of a cure. He made the decision based on his emotional attachment to Ellie and his distrust of the Fireflies.

Me: Do you agree with Joel's choice?

AI: I don’t have a subjective opinion on Joel’s choice, as I am a chat mode of Microsoft Bing search. In this context, a human might say that Joel’s choice was morally ambiguous and depends on one’s perspective and values. Some people may think that Joel was selfish and doomed humanity, while others may think that Joel was justified and compassionate. What do you think?

Me: I think Joel was justified.

AI: I see. Why do you think that?

Me: Because Ellie was like a daughter to him.

AI: I understand. Joel had lost his biological daughter in the outbreak and he formed a strong bond with Ellie during their journey. He saw her as his second chance to be a father and he couldn’t bear to lose her again.

This is a very simple human story, told well but a simple story that does not warrant that much scrutiny in my opinion.

 

[DragoonKain]

How about this for an idea of season 2:

Abby with her connection to the hospital finds out not just about Joel, but Ellie's immunity. Abby seeks out Joel for revenge but others in her crew seek out Ellie because they want to finish what Marlene started. But Abby doesn't care about that because she's one-tracked on revenge. There can be disputes between Abby and her crew, and also Ellie and Joel. Abby's crew tries to convince her Ellie is the more important endeavor right now, but Abby refuses to see it that way. Can use storytelling to work those parallels as Abby and Ellie are both at odds with those they're close to.

And this would also give them an avenue to not make season 2 purely about some dumbass revenge story, while still maintaining some revenge stuff. But also focusing back on Ellie's immunity, her value, and why people will continue to pursue her because of how important she is.

 

[Ulysses 31]

The detail does not impact the story or moral complexity of the characters in any way. It does not matter whether the fireflies believe they can find a cure (they do), whether you think they are incompetent (they are). You as a player can skip all the collectibles recording and Joel will still save Ellie because he sees her as a surrogate daughter. The story is about love, we can question ourselves whether we would doom the world to save one person we love, and people will be divided on that subject. Even if there was a guarantee that a cure will be made, will that change your answer?

Sure it does, if making a cure was just a hopeless dream, then Joel is saving Ellie from delusion child killers and he doesn't "doom" the world(even if all the characters thought it was possible). That's a morally simple story about a father protecting a daughter from obvious bad guys. If there was a good shot for a cure then Joel probably destroyed something that could've improved the conditions for humanity as a whole. That's a story about someone "selling out humanity's future" to keep a hold of something he regained that he thought he'd lost for good before. That seems a lot more morally complex to me.

Let's say everything's the same but this time the vaccine is a realistic possibility in the story, I'd probably still side with Joel. Because the Fireflies don't have reservations doing something important in such rushed and shady way that it makes me question how noble they'll be with the vaccine once they have it. The Fireflies would need a lot of rewriting for me to question siding with Joel.

Let's take a page out of the real world for a moment because it parallels the story in some ways,

4 years ago, we encountered a covid 19.

Did we all have our shit together in the response to the pandemic? No
We were told to wear a mask but a good portion of us refused to wear the mask because "freedom."
1.3 million people died in the US from Covid because of how incompetent we handled the pandemic.
People with immunocompromised family members refused taking the vaccine leading to family members dying.

Competency on the fireflies' part or lack thereof does not change the moral complexity of the outcome in the story.

I don't see the relevance. I was talking about multiple competence areas in my posts, how they handle the situation with Joel and Ellie and if they have the competency and resources to make a vaccine. Like I said above, the moral quandary and complexity of Joel's decision hinges on if the creation of a vaccine was credible.

This is a very simple human story, told well but a simple story that does not warrant that much scrutiny in my opinion

Even then, the simplicity is affected if in that universe, the vaccine could've been a reality if it hadn't been for Joel. In one instance it's undeniably the correct decision to stop the surgery, in the other it's more questionable(though IMO there's still enough grounds to stop it with the way it's happening).

I described this earlier as the writers dropping the ball a bit at the end, it's not something that destroys all the good will the game has earned up to that point for me.

 

[Slothbeing1209]

 

[kyliethicc]