• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Final Fantasy 14 Director Says the Game's Become Too Relaxed, Will Increase the Challenge Going Forward

Thick Thighs Save Lives

NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
FFXIV_PUB_Patch6.2_27.png

Final Fantasy 14 director Naoki Yoshida has said the massively multiplayer online game has become too relaxed in the last few years, so he and developer Square Enix are looking to increase the difficulty going forward.

In an interview with Famitsu, translated by IGN, Yoshida likened Final Fantasy 14 to a side-scrolling action game where there aren't any gaps to fall through, and therefore had lost some of the challenge and fun.

"From now on, we’ll keep working to surprise players and surpass their expectations," Yoshida said. "But there is one thing I’ve been reflecting on. As we’ve continued to operate Final Fantasy 14, we’ve made the game more approachable, so that it can be played without stress. But looking back on the last 10 years, we may have overdone it a bit.
"Video games should, of course, include an element of stress, but finding that balance is extremely difficult. For example, if you play a side-scrolling action game and there aren’t any gaps you could fall down when you miss a jump, the game would be free of stress. But it would also not be fun."

Final Fantasy 14 launched in 2010 but after a rough start was relaunched as A Realm Reborn in 2013. It's therefore been active for well over a decade, and this new era of increased difficulty will perhaps arrive with the next major expansion, Dawntrail, which launches summer 2024. That being said, Yoshida made clear its going to be a long-term change he'll consider over the next decade.

"In terms of Final Fantasy 14, I would like to restore that [stress] somewhat," he said. "By doing that, we could offer players the right kind of challenge, and do it better than ever. This is a development challenge for the next 10 years, and I’m currently working on various game design elements, which is fun. However, I’m sure some people will think, 'Why on earth would you do that?'"
Final Fantasy 14 is changing in other ways too, and a difficulty bump could perhaps accompany the increased level cap coming with Dawntrail. The highly anticipated update also brings a major graphical overhaul to Final Fantasy 14 alongside a wealth of new story content.
 

Killjoy-NL

Gold Member
I mean story wise that’s supposed to be the point. The current expansion would be like a vacation after defeating the boss of an arc. A more adventurous carefree one. Then it ramps up.
Yeah, looking forward to it.

Is it true that they are going to start a completely new multi-expansion arc?
Haven't really been following much about Dawntrail.
 
Last edited:

Celcius

°Temp. member
Some folks just want to play for the story though.
Sometimes I don’t feel like doing those sections of the MSQ where they make you control another character and you keep failing the mission over and over again.
 

Killjoy-NL

Gold Member
I mean nothing is confirmed yet but that certainly seems to be the case.
Cool, I would love if they would support the game with a new storyline that lasts for a couple of years.

Hopefully they'll make it one big open world at some point.
I remember YoshiP once discussing it and saying it was mainly due to PS3 hardware that they haven't tried to change it yet.
 
Last edited:

Faust

Perpetually Tired
Some folks just want to play for the story though.
Sometimes I don’t feel like doing those sections of the MSQ where they make you control another character and you keep failing the mission over and over again.
I don’t think he is referring to narrative play, but end game content. Alliance raids, savages, hard mode dungeons, etc. add more challenge into the game so you don’t just zone out running roulettes.
 
How hard is it to get into this game from level 1? Do I have to go through a mountain of shit to get to the good stuff?
It almost too easy. You earn triple XP and skip many areas entirely. It's actually why I didn't bother continuing. The early areas are devoid of life and reason to engage.
 

Kazdane

Member
To be honest, I'm kinda surprised, considering the truly difficult content is, you know, difficult. So I'm wondering if he means he wants to make that content even harder, or he means increasing the difficulty in-between a bit, outside the MSQ, which would actually be nice, because jumping from a Normal raid boss to the Savage difficulty can be quite the jump in some fights, and I do miss small group content that is somewhat difficult.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I could write a huge wall of text saying what problems XIV has atm but I'll keep it short and just say the game is boring as fuck.

To the point that those at endgame with casuals, midcore and hardcore players are just bored with stuff that they want to do and about 50% won't touch Savage content because you go from super easy to stupid hard with no middleground.

If you don't raid there is no endgame.
 

Mossybrew

Gold Member
It almost too easy. You earn triple XP and skip many areas entirely. It's actually why I didn't bother continuing. The early areas are devoid of life and reason to engage.
Leveling up is completely brain-dead easy and takes for-fucking ever, unless they changed something in the last 2 years or so since I played. I lost interest well before reaching max level.
 

Freeman76

Member
How hard is it to get into this game from level 1? Do I have to go through a mountain of shit to get to the good stuff?

I would honestly not even bother. The amount of post game bullshit you have to do between expansions is INSANE. Hours and hours of boring ass fetch quests they put in to pad out the seasons, but for new players you have to wade through it all before you can access the next expansion., at least thats how it was when I played so unless they changed that, be prepared to be forced to complete almost 200 boring ass quests between the base game and first expansion
 
Last edited:

Arsic

Loves his juicy stink trail scent
How hard is it to get into this game from level 1? Do I have to go through a mountain of shit to get to the good stuff?
IMO, yes. But some people will tell you the mountain of shit is the best part lmao.

Heavensward is the best expansion and story. The pacing, structure, presentation etc of the story is abysmal. Main story quests revolve around go here to talk to this npc about useless shit, then go over here to talk to this npc about useless shit. Eventually you get treated to a fun dungeon, and a voiced cut scene with mediocre animation.

The dungeons/raids are fun. If you gravitate to the story told across like 400 hours then you’ll have plenty to enjoy. Me? Going to get onions for some fairy in the woods as a main story quest never improved even into the latest expansions.

I’ve forced myself to play through 14 and it’s expansions out of the pure love I have for final fantasy 11. The game that won my heart and soul growing up.

The highest highs for me for 14 remain heavensward and the Nier raid.
 

iHaunter

Member
How hard is it to get into this game from level 1? Do I have to go through a mountain of shit to get to the good stuff?
Yes. The first part of the story lvl 1 - 50 is a slog. But you get levels fast. Story doesn't get good till the first expansion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RNG

Arsic

Loves his juicy stink trail scent
I’m surprised at the responses here on GAF to 14. I swear whenever this game gets brought up it’s a giant circle jerk like the game is the best mmo Ever made, and it all usually starts with people shitting on WoW and blizzard to then bring up 14.

People think it looks good too which made me visit my eye doctor. The game looks like what it is, a PS3 era game. Character and monster models can look fine but the environments often are low poly smear and ass. Areas in FF11 a PS2 game look better.

Retail WoW on max settings in 4K with Ray tracing is such a good looking game. Baffles the mind 14 is touted for its graphics.

In general 14 in all stages ive engaged with the game from pre realm reborn to current state is, as others stated, a boring as fuck game.

“The fun starts at heavenward!” No it doesn’t. The fun never “begins.” The game is dull and has moments of fun sprinkled in.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I’m surprised at the responses here on GAF to 14. I swear whenever this game gets brought up it’s a giant circle jerk like the game is the best mmo Ever made, and it all usually starts with people shitting on WoW and blizzard to then bring up 14.

People think it looks good too which made me visit my eye doctor. The game looks like what it is, a PS3 era game. Character and monster models can look fine but the environments often are low poly smear and ass. Areas in FF11 a PS2 game look better.

Retail WoW on max settings in 4K with Ray tracing is such a good looking game. Baffles the mind 14 is touted for its graphics.

In general 14 in all stages ive engaged with the game from pre realm reborn to current state is, as others stated, a boring as fuck game.

“The fun starts at heavenward!” No it doesn’t. The fun never “begins.” The game is dull and has moments of fun sprinkled in.
Game used to be engaging when HW launched but after all the streamlining beginning with Stormblood the fun indeed never begins because the game doesn't allow you to have fun. I think it's good YoshiP has acknowledged that his game is boring and changes are required for player retention.

But overall games like WoW, FFXI, GW2, SWTOR are better MMOs overall with all they have to offer IMO. I've found though that current MMOs just aren't very engaging. Interesting games to play for a couple weeks but nothing that makes you want to keep playing.

Dawntrail will probably be my last shot with XIV and I expect to shelf it in 1-2 weeks on release. Very much prefer FFXI as the world feels lived in. Nothing really beats the ambience of taking a cruise ship to another continent which is a nice 10 minute trip. Sometimes you are attacked by monsters, other times it's smooth sailing. So good.
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
My gunblade and I are ready for whatever they throw at us. Extremes, Savages, Ultimates, you think I give a fuck with Heart of Conundrum? You think I take damage? lmao
 

Arsic

Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Game used to be engaging when HW launched but after all the streamlining beginning with Stormblood the fun indeed never begins because the game doesn't allow you to have fun. I think it's good YoshiP has acknowledged that his game is boring and changes are required for player retention.

But overall games like WoW, FFXI, GW2, SWTOR are better MMOs overall with all they have to offer IMO. I've found though that current MMOs just aren't very engaging. Interesting games to play for a couple weeks but nothing that makes you want to keep playing.

Dawntrail will probably be my last shot with XIV and I expect to shelf it in 1-2 weeks on release. Very much prefer FFXI as the world feels lived in. Nothing really beats the ambience of taking a cruise ship to another continent which is a nice 10 minute trip. Sometimes you are attacked by monsters, other times it's smooth sailing. So good.
Same with dawn trail for me but I first have to finish the current expansion.

Also, the reason for me XI is the best game I’ve ever played, and was the best MMO, is because the main character was Vanadiel itself. The boat ride experience you mentioned is part of that. The sense of wonder and terror within the world. Working with players to conquer the challenges the world presents.

In 14, Eorzea doesn’t matter, and it’s reflected by how you engage with the world and how you just teleport everywhere always.
 

Pejo

Gold Member
I haven't played FFXIV in years. Is current day content easier/harder than Titan (extreme) was back when it was released? For the type of game that FFXIV is (was I guess), that encounter was hard as fuck to get that many people playing at a high level at the same time on the same run.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Same with dawn trail for me but I first have to finish the current expansion.

Also, the reason for me XI is the best game I’ve ever played, and was the best MMO, is because the main character was Vanadiel itself. The boat ride experience you mentioned is part of that. The sense of wonder and terror within the world. Working with players to conquer the challenges the world presents.

In 14, Eorzea doesn’t matter, and it’s reflected by how you engage with the world and how you just teleport everywhere always.
XIV's problem is no world building and everything is instanced content. Nothing connects to anything. It is literally a theme park where you get in line to ride the rides but after you ride each attraction you go home and come back next year when they have new rides to get in line for. Just UGH.

The sense of Terror or of Danger is present early on in XI if you start in Windurst with the Horutoto ruins where in the Outer Section you have low level enemies but venturing deeper you have max level enemies that represent ancient undead that you have to sneak by to progress a quest. And all these dungeons are connected with the game world. So COOL. No such thing in XIV.

I think instanced content works when done right like Monster Hunter, the recent Granblue Relink or the ancient Vindictus but for XIV it gets stale fast if the formula stays the same expansion after expansion. Yoshi P Cultists will be quick to defend their Elden Lord at the mere mention of FFXI or WoW usually spouting rhetoric that XIV is better then WoW or that FFXI and FFXIV are two different games and what have you with no actual argument to support their claims on how better it actually is.

I stopped playing XIV at 6.2? I feel like I can just bypass the gated content at expansion launch and I'm only really interested in the new classes which I imagine will only feasibly hold my interest for 20 minutes tops.

Pejo Pejo Other then Savage tier content the game is super easy. They've really dumbed down the game you only have Super Easy or Super Hard stuff. No middleground to give incentive to do the hard stuff. And the rewards are garbage per usual. And the hard stuff amounts to knowing where to stand and when to press button in a Dance Dance Revolution Simon Says kind of combat loop. Most if not all bosses are scripted and have no deviation. And mistakes generally just take 80% of your health. I don't think gear ever really mattered. Just ilvl.
 
Last edited:

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
I think since dark souls, games are too focused on screwing player over and challenge than fun gameplay.
I don’t want everything to be hard.
I honestly see ds influence in almost every new game.
As for ff16… no. It wasn’t too easy. It was a difficult game honestly in normal. But not too difficult. But as most games now, it requires your brain and inputs going overdrive.
I kinda want a chill game too sometimes. I play games my whole life and I think there is a difference. And I know nes used to be very hard but these were just bad games.

Hogwarts was that once you got more spells. Active but not difficult. Once you know your combos you get powerful and that game got very relaxing.
Lies of p was a nightmare of frustration towards the end on the other game
 
Last edited:

Pejo

Gold Member
Same with dawn trail for me but I first have to finish the current expansion.

Also, the reason for me XI is the best game I’ve ever played, and was the best MMO, is because the main character was Vanadiel itself. The boat ride experience you mentioned is part of that. The sense of wonder and terror within the world. Working with players to conquer the challenges the world presents.

In 14, Eorzea doesn’t matter, and it’s reflected by how you engage with the world and how you just teleport everywhere always.
XIV's problem is no world building and everything is instanced content. Nothing connects to anything. It is literally a theme park where you get in line to ride the rides but after you ride each attraction you go home and come back next year when they have new rides to get in line for. Just UGH.

The sense of Terror or of Danger is present early on in XI if you start in Windurst with the Horutoto ruins where in the Outer Section you have low level enemies but venturing deeper you have max level enemies that represent ancient undead that you have to sneak by to progress a quest. And all these dungeons are connected with the game world. So COOL. No such thing in XIV.

I think instanced content works when done right like Monster Hunter, the recent Granblue Relink or the ancient Vindictus but for XIV it gets stale fast if the formula stays the same expansion after expansion. Yoshi P Cultists will be quick to defend their Elden Lord at the mere mention of FFXI or WoW usually spouting rhetoric that XIV is better then WoW or that FFXI and FFXIV are two different games and what have you with no actual argument to support their claims on how better it actually is.

I stopped playing XIV at 6.2? I feel like I can just bypass the gated content at expansion launch and I'm only really interested in the new classes which I imagine will only feasibly hold my interest for 20 minutes tops.

Pejo Pejo Other then Savage tier content the game is super easy. They've really dumbed down the game you only have Super Easy or Super Hard stuff. No middleground to give incentive to do the hard stuff. And the rewards are garbage per usual. And the hard stuff amounts to knowing where to stand and when to press button in a Dance Dance Revolution Simon Says kind of combat loop. Most if not all bosses are scripted and have no deviation. And mistakes generally just take 80% of your health. I don't think gear ever really mattered. Just ilvl.
Ah, two fellow FFXI chads, I see. Difficulty and the world being extremely harsh to players was part of what gave prime FFXI its charm, so I agree with YoshiP in that aspect. I did not care for theme park instanced gear treadmill gameplay as he designed it for FFXIV though, and I think he's one of the most overrated game directors of all time. He just copied WoW, threw FF memberberries at it, and called it a day. He did it effectively, but that's all he did. He's an expert at copying and refining others, but not a visionary like the FFXI devs were. Hell, I think FFXIV itself could have been awesome if they refined some of the obtuse pre-ARR shit and found a way to make it work. Most of my fun with FFXIV was due to finding a great raid party full of likeminded guys that made the game fun, just like any multiplayer game where you're lucky enough to find people on your wavelength.

Still, I will keep an eye on this new "difficulty" he's talking about, I haven't played since.... Shit I don't even remember the last expasion I bought, but it's been years.
 

Doom85

Member
What is with this running theme with this guy and “players can enjoy some level of difficulty…eventually!”
 

Kumomeme

Member
I don’t think he is referring to narrative play, but end game content. Alliance raids, savages, hard mode dungeons, etc. add more challenge into the game so you don’t just zone out running roulettes.
This Up Here GIF by Chord Overstreet


good example of latest relic weapon. previously it used to be a grindy fest that require lot of time but now it is easy peasy
 

Kumomeme

Member
XIV's problem is no world building and everything is instanced content. Nothing connects to anything. It is literally a theme park where you get in line to ride the rides but after you ride each attraction you go home and come back next year when they have new rides to get in line for. Just UGH.

The sense of Terror or of Danger is present early on in XI if you start in Windurst with the Horutoto ruins where in the Outer Section you have low level enemies but venturing deeper you have max level enemies that represent ancient undead that you have to sneak by to progress a quest. And all these dungeons are connected with the game world. So COOL. No such thing in XIV.

I think instanced content works when done right like Monster Hunter, the recent Granblue Relink or the ancient Vindictus but for XIV it gets stale fast if the formula stays the same expansion after expansion. Yoshi P Cultists will be quick to defend their Elden Lord at the mere mention of FFXI or WoW usually spouting rhetoric that XIV is better then WoW or that FFXI and FFXIV are two different games and what have you with no actual argument to support their claims on how better it actually is.

I stopped playing XIV at 6.2? I feel like I can just bypass the gated content at expansion launch and I'm only really interested in the new classes which I imagine will only feasibly hold my interest for 20 minutes tops.

Pejo Pejo Other then Savage tier content the game is super easy. They've really dumbed down the game you only have Super Easy or Super Hard stuff. No middleground to give incentive to do the hard stuff. And the rewards are garbage per usual. And the hard stuff amounts to knowing where to stand and when to press button in a Dance Dance Revolution Simon Says kind of combat loop. Most if not all bosses are scripted and have no deviation. And mistakes generally just take 80% of your health. I don't think gear ever really mattered. Just ilvl.
uhmm world building is one of thing that people praise for the game. it is stuff tied to lore. i think you mean the gameplay interaction or experience in the open world/overworld?
 

Kokoloko85

Member
People think it looks good too which made me visit my eye doctor. The game looks like what it is, a PS3 era game. Character and monster models can look fine but the environments often are low poly smear and ass. Areas in FF11 a PS2 game look better.

Wasnt FF14 released in like 2010-2013? On the PS3? The game has lasted a long time and done well.
Time for a new FF Online game
 

Arsic

Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Wasnt FF14 released in like 2010-2013? On the PS3? The game has lasted a long time and done well.
Time for a new FF Online game
Most days I just want ff11 online remastered with better visuals and a few quality of life changes. The current version of the game is abysmal and private servers just don’t do it for me.

A new FF mmo project from current square seems like a recipe for disaster. They are all hands on deck with this game for decades just like 11.
 

Faust

Perpetually Tired
Wasnt FF14 released in like 2010-2013? On the PS3? The game has lasted a long time and done well.
Time for a new FF Online game

Nah, there are still legs to FFXIV and the player base continues to grow with every new expansion. Why would Square try to risk that by releasing a game that would just compete with its own product? FFXI was on the decline when FFXIV initially released (prior to its reboot). The reboot itself released in 2013.

Most days I just want ff11 online remastered with better visuals and a few quality of life changes. The current version of the game is abysmal and private servers just don’t do it for me.

A new FF mmo project from current square seems like a recipe for disaster. They are all hands on deck with this game for decades just like 11.

While I never thought FFXI was better than XIV, I would like it to be more readily accessible for those interested in trying it out or just to jump in during content down times in FFXIV. Put it on the same subscription as XIV and downloadable/playable from the same launcher. Though I am sure PlayOnline is a bitch to change at this point.
 

Comandr

Member
FFXIV is so massively, insanely different today than it was in 1.0. Even 2.0. No sense of danger. No downtime. Overly complicated ability sets. All classes have very few abilities. And they all play essentially the same. I dunno. The game is the definition of brain dead for me.

FFXI is a clunky mess but and some of the quests fucking sucked but the moment to moment gameplay was a blast. Meaningful weapon and magic skills, skill chains, magic bursts, the sense of growth and danger, true customization with subjobs…

My 77 whm at time of quitting FFXIV had three offensive spells, not counting long cooldown abilities like assize. Single target DD. Single target DoT, and a PBAE DD.

Look at this giant fucking spell list for FFXI white mages. 95 spells! DD, paralyze, slow, silence, aoe dd, aoe dot, reraise, teleport… then you mix in Black Mage and holy shit you can blind, poison, bind, warp, damage shield, drain, like holy shit. This makes your average max level FFXI caster SIGNIFICANTLY more capable than a similar character in FFXIV.

What this does is create an environment where the developers can design content that challenges players to employ these abilities. Some enemies can only detect you from sound, sight, or scent. So there are spells to mask those things, making you invisible, muffling the sound of your steps, or covering your scent. That gives the game flavor, texture.

Outside of rogue’s ability to hide, this doesn’t really exist in any meaningful way in FFXIV. Those are just a few reasons why FFXIV is just fucking boring these days.
 

Arsic

Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Nah, there are still legs to FFXIV and the player base continues to grow with every new expansion. Why would Square try to risk that by releasing a game that would just compete with its own product? FFXI was on the decline when FFXIV initially released (prior to its reboot). The reboot itself released in 2013.



While I never thought FFXI was better than XIV, I would like it to be more readily accessible for those interested in trying it out or just to jump in during content down times in FFXIV. Put it on the same subscription as XIV and downloadable/playable from the same launcher. Though I am sure PlayOnline is a bitch to change at this point.
XI is a better game when played at its peak era. I have friends from that game I still talk to online frequently that I never met IRL.

The issue with XI now is you can’t go experience that game we all fell in love with anymore. There’s a ghost of it available that doesn’t do it justice. It’s also a game that many players ASK for these days from a mmorpg but wouldn’t commit to or play since it’s 100% taking on a second full time job.

Over the years I’ve hoped for the play online being taken away, HD graphics injected, or remaster or a FFXI classic like WoW has done. SE treats XI as a punishment to be worked on if you get on that team.

At this point all we have are memories to hold onto.

 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
How about a new game? Or at least another meteor to reset change it drastically and reset it.
 

Boss Mog

Member
XI is a better game when played at its peak era. I have friends from that game I still talk to online frequently that I never met IRL.

The issue with XI now is you can’t go experience that game we all fell in love with anymore. There’s a ghost of it available that doesn’t do it justice. It’s also a game that many players ASK for these days from a mmorpg but wouldn’t commit to or play since it’s 100% taking on a second full time job.

Over the years I’ve hoped for the play online being taken away, HD graphics injected, or remaster or a FFXI classic like WoW has done. SE treats XI as a punishment to be worked on if you get on that team.

At this point all we have are memories to hold onto.


As much as I enjoyed XI back in the day, I realize that the enjoyment back then came more from the community than the game itself. Though the game was still brilliant it was often brutal and frustrating. So if we're talking about the game itself I would say the peak era for XI is right now. The endgame content available these days is more challenging and fun than the old content.
 

Arsic

Loves his juicy stink trail scent
As much as I enjoyed XI back in the day, I realize that the enjoyment back then came more from the community than the game itself. Though the game was still brilliant it was often brutal and frustrating. So if we're talking about the game itself I would say the peak era for XI is right now. The endgame content available these days is more challenging and fun than the old content.
I’ve never understood why in a mmo people are so in the mindset that the final destination is all that matters, and not the journey.

Most players don’t do the end game. Most players don’t come back to a game because of end game. That’s your .1% Uber player nerd.

XI for example with chains of promathia had level capped content players could enjoy to challenge and reward themselves with valuable gear they could use both when obtained AND be a potential best in slot for end game. Level 20 doing promyvions, 30 , 40, ultima weapon at 50, etc.

Complete the expansion to access an end game area called Sea, but also have a best in slot ring useable even before max level that is never coming off.

I’m sorry but no , XI is in the shittiest state it is now because a giga NPC companion blows through all of the content for you, and without the challenge, coordination , and social aspect? Who cares?

MMOs that don’t require players working together aren’t MMOs.
 

Lokaum D+

Member
as someone that has 5k hours into this game, i ll say that, after this boy

043ayj1v3st31.jpg


the raids became easier and easier, aside from the ultimates that bring some challenge.
 
Last edited:

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
MMOs that don’t require players working together aren’t MMOs.
Most MMOs today aren't MMOs then. They are mostly Online Single player RPGs. With the exception of instanced dungeon/raid content. The closest you can reasonably get in XIV is probably Blue Mage(Blue Mage in XI is superior anyway) which most shit on since it's blocked from 70% of the game.

The old days of FFXI and Everquest are long behind us with how streamlined current MMO trends are.
 
Top Bottom