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[Danknugz]

glad the special olympics of hardware has finally ended. maybe playstation fans can finally reap what they sowed and start spreading their wild oats. "hey baby, did you know i believed in ps5 and we won the console wars against xbox?"

 

[onQ123]

Ahh yes, optimizing for a lot less memory with "a few lines of code" . Tell that to Larian.

Which proves it wasn't 2 different ports lol

 

[Skifi28]

Which proves it wasn't 2 different ports lol

Considering how much time it costed them and they eventually had to cut a big feature to ship the game on it, it might as well have been a different port. But the point is, there's more than just "changing a few lines of code" and having a series S version ready. Seems like it's too cut down for that.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

First party is where the gap will show.

It sure does.

 

[ChiefDada]

A 20% compute advantage is absolutely considerably more powerful within products belonging to the same generation. The problem is that you need games that push compute to realize it. In games which do push compute, we do indeed see Xbox pulling ahead of Playstation.

Like CP Phantom Liberty? Oh wait...




Maybe Avatar Frontiers of Pandora?? Oh wait...






Maybe Immortals of Aveum?? Oh wait...

 

[K' Dash]

All of this nonsense and you have games that have released from Xbox's own first party studios that which perform on par or better on the PS5. What are the excuses there when the Xbox versions that originally released got all the attention and the subsequent PS5 ports were done in short order?

But fear not guys, Geforce Now is upon you.

I’m talking as an actual software developer not a as braindead fanboy.

But you can “gotcha” me with your idiotic takes all you want, I don’t care much for people like you.

 

[Klayzer]

Like CP Phantom Liberty? Oh wait...




Maybe Avatar Frontiers of Pandora?? Oh wait...






Maybe Immortals of Aveum?? Oh wait...

Lol. Wrecked

 

[SonGoku]

A 20% compute advantage is absolutely considerably more powerful within products belonging to the same generation. The problem is that you need games that push compute to realize it. In games which do push compute, we do indeed see Xbox pulling ahead of Playstation.

It's clear that MS probably expected things to go differently this generation, and expected developers to advance their engines at a more rapid pace. However, it doesn't matter how much compute you have when developers prioritize Playstation because it's the only platform that's selling and selling games.

20% is not considerably more powerful, Its the difference between 1440p and 1728p average dynamic resolution on ideal scaling scenario, unless you consider that difference considerable then disregard my comment. Besides even ignoring potential bottlenecks, compute does not scale linearly and even if it did the best case scenario the SX would get 20% higher average dynamic resolution which again is not a considerable difference.

 

[Akuji]

They finally found the Video where cerny first talked about the console
Impressive journalism

 

[onQ123]

Considering how much time it costed them and they eventually had to cut a big feature to ship the game on it, it might as well have been a different port. But the point is, there's more than just "changing a few lines of code" and having a series S version ready. Seems like it's too cut down for that.

Basically it is though but when it come to the size of the dataset that's when you can't change the settings to get it to run on the console with a lower memory footprint.


It's something that I knew would happen at some point. This is also a problem that Series X would eventually run into on it's own if push came to shove .

 

[Killer8]

The whole article is written in a way that tries to appear painfully fair and balanced™. The reality is that Xbox Series X performance has been a dud for Microsoft. There are many high profile games now that perform better on PS5. "Another one" isn't a meme for no reason. Most embarrassingly, we even have Microsoft first-party games excelling on the competition's platform (better shadows in Hi-Fi Rush, better draw distance in Sea of Thieves, better RT in Ghostwire).

Yeah, there are also games that perform better on Xbox Series X. But the two even being a 'wash' is the main point here - on paper, PS5 shouldn't even be trading blows, and yet here we are. The article also smacks of DF trying to save face now that the king nerds have been shown to not really have much predictive power. They're regurgitators of info and not analyzers. They can be trusted for the comparisons themselves ie. reporting after the fact, but take any of their DF Direct Weekly soothsaying with a grain of salt.

 

[Self_Destructive]

20% is not considerably more powerful, Its the difference between 1440p and 1728p average dynamic resolution on ideal scaling scenario, unless you consider that difference considerable then disregard my comment. Besides even ignoring potential bottlenecks, compute does not scale linearly and even if it did the best case scenario the SX would get 20% higher average dynamic resolution which again is not a considerable difference.

Or... OR... it just might not have anything to do with resolution. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're mentioning resolution differences... because games which actually take stress the advantage of higher compute outside of resolution... aren't being made at this point.. In games where the compute pipeline is being taxed, Xbox is pulling ahead about what you'd expect.

 

[Self_Destructive]

Like CP Phantom Liberty? Oh wait...




Maybe Avatar Frontiers of Pandora?? Oh wait...






Maybe Immortals of Aveum?? Oh wait...

You wasted your time posting videos with Xbox console stutter issues which have nothing to do with compute... congrats.

And yes, please DO post more Digital Foundry content to prove your point, while actively in a thread attempting to discredit them

Indeed.

 

[Audiophile]

PS5 Advantages:

- Stronger APIs

- Market Leader

- 20% Higher Triangle Rasterization
- 20% Higher Pixel Fillrate
- 20% Higher Culling Rate

- Less CU/WGP per Shader Array


XSX Advantages:

- 2.8-8.6% Higher CPU Clock

- 16.7% Higher GPU TFlops
- 18% Higher Texture Fillrate

- Main Memory Bandwidth (though this is hard to quantify exactly due to the odd setup)


I don't get why it's taken DF so long to cotton on to the obvious.

The PS5 GPU is divvied up in a more balanced way and offers 20% more rasterization performance pretty much upfront, whereas the XSX GPU offers 15-20% more compute and texture capabilities, but you'll need to optimise your workload well to leverage that entire advantage. Pair this with stronger APIs and the incentive to prioritise the market leader; and most games being neck and neck, or slightly stronger on PS5 makes sense.

On a bit of a sidenote I think Sony read the room better on their console design. They've managed to basically match Xbox with a smaller, cheaper die, taking into account various factors..

That said, as the gen goes on I expect to see multiplat games garner a small lead on XSX vs the base PS5 as we're leaning more towards compute and RT; and as we see more optimisation for current gen only titles. Mandatory PS5 Pro modes on games coming out not long after launch may even benefit XSX as the workload will be getting spread out more.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

DF Weekly: If Xbox Series X is more powerful, why do some PS5 games run better?

On paper, the Xbox Series X is a considerably more powerful piece of hardware than PlayStation 5, so why are we looking…

www.eurogamer.net

"considerably more powerful piece of hardware"


No its not. 10.3 vs 12 Tflops and 448 vs 336/560 GB/s memory bandwidth difference is not considerable. At least not enough of a difference where the Series X was gonna total run through the PS5 all things being equal.

 

[SKYF@ll]

The benchmarks for the PS5 and Xbox Series X are almost the same.
In well-optimized games, the benchmark score is equivalent to the RTX2080 (10 TFlops), and in general it is equivalent to the RTX2070S (9 TFlops).
You can always compare true performance by comparing with a PC.

 

[MadchesterManc]

If compute TF was all that mattered for games then Vega64 (12.66) would have been suplexing Nvidia cards until the 2080ti (13.45) dropped in the PC space, yet all it could do is compete with a 1080 (8.87)

 

[GHG]

I’m talking as an actual software developer not a as braindead fanboy.

But you can “gotcha” me with your idiotic takes all you want, I don’t care much for people like you.

You're talking to somebody who founded and runs a software business. Stop projecting.

It's Microsoft's job to ensure developers can get the most out of the hardware rather than waste their time and energy marketing to impressionable people who will blindly believe their hardware's theoretical peak numbers and run with it as gospel. Judging by what you claim to be, you should know that, rather than wave away their failure to follow through on their promises in this area as "complex". There's nothing complex about it, they even said "wait for the tools", and those tools are yet to arrive (well, some tools have always been here, just not the ones they really need where they need them).

Without sense?? What games do you mean by first party? GW Tokyo?? Sea Of thieves?? Hi-fi?? I think you should look at the specific situations in those games before talking about something and accusing people of talking nonsense. Although it is not that miracles can be expected from you and the usual suspects responding with an emoji in the absence of arguments.

That said, it doesn't matter. From the moment you have much more tech advanced Third Party games and many, many of these work better in XSX even despite having worse tools, not being the base development platform and being the platform with the least optimization time, the facts fall into place own weight about the capability and power of the XSX hardware.... Another thing is that you don't want to see it.

There's nothing specific about the situation with any of those games. Some of those games have been available on Series X hardware since it's release, in those cases they've had that long to brush up on it and ensure it's the best version, but no, a PS5 version releases out of the blue and it's on par, if not better in some areas. You're making excuses for them when you should be asking them why their console is not consistently delivering on the ideology that it was supposed to be the most performant console hardware available.

At the end of the day nobody cares about the spec sheets, nobody cares about the "tools", "base development platform" or any other excuses that get thrown around, people only care about the results. If a game performs worse on my 4090 than it does on the PS5 or any other console do you think I'm making shitty excuses like "oh poor them, the PC isn't the lead development environment", or am I demanding answers along with a fix?

The time for talk is over. We are over half way through a console generation, people want results, and so far the results speak volumes.

 

[Fafalada]

Is there any upside to DirectX on a console?

Well it gave them the upper hand in PS3 era where Sony APIs were still a work in progress, and it made PC porting that much more popular during PS2 era, including XBox getting a bunch of such ports it otherwise might not have. But in current era it's largely irrelevant and indeed more likely makes it harder to optimise for console dev.

A 20% compute advantage is absolutely considerably more powerful within products belonging to the same generation.

Well 'considerable' is relative - it's the smallest delta in history of 3d consoles. So not sure what people really expected here.

 

[onQ123]

PS5 Advantages:

- Stronger APIs

- Market Leader

- 20% Higher Triangle Rasterization
- 20% Higher Pixel Fillrate
- 20% Higher Culling Rate

- Less CU/WGP per Shader Array


XSX Advantages:

- 2.8-8.6% Higher CPU Clock

- 16.7% Higher GPU TFlops
- 18% Higher Texture Fillrate


I don't get why it's taken DF so long to cotton on to the obvious.

You left out the biggest advantage the I/O

 

[PatientGamer]

Digital Foundry are to Xbox, like Erik Ten Hag is to Manchester Utd..

They both just can't comprehend for the life of them, why the PS5 & Arsenal is far superior to their shitty corporate benefactors.

Always, always talking about the other guy.. focus on yourselves bro.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Well, it’s just like with cars. Your American muscle car can posses a mighty v8 7L engine, but it won’t win any races against some v6 2.4L JDM car that can actually attack apexes and simply not end up in the wall after the first turn.

The sad part? Well, that this was obvious back in 2020 for every tech-versed person. Excluding the DF that are still parroting silly PR bullet points about the raw horsepower.

 

[onQ123]

There is still time to repent before GTAVI comes out

 

[onQ123]

Ahh yes, optimizing for a lot less memory with "a few lines of code" . Tell that to Larian.

They already know & making a port would have probably been easier for them

 

[Danknugz]

i'm not on xbox vs playstation side or take sides, but its sad seeing so many people with such pent up aggression towards xbox writing novels, circle jerking and rallying around all in their element, fully grown men exacting their revenge on other who chose the other sides children's toy.

 

[Darsxx82]

There's nothing specific about the situation with any of those games. Some of those games have been available on Series X hardware since it's release, in those cases they've had that long to brush up on it and ensure it's the best version, but no, a PS5 version releases out of the blue and it's on par, if not better in some areas.

Lol With your response I only detect your need to duck the issue in the absence of arguments. Apart from speaking without knowing.

Yes, there is a lot of circumstance in those games. GWTokyo is a game made based on the PS5 at launch and was frequently updated in the following year with successive patches. It is XSX that received the port.

SOT is an XBO game updated to XSX practically via BC using the XBO X version that has not received any graphics update in 4 years. The PS5 port was not made by Rare. I should point out that in the120hz mode SOT works considerably better in XSX despite everything.
HiFis a port made by a different Studio than the original.

The fact is that you have more advanced "first party" games than those mentioned that perform considerably better on XSX and I would like you to explain to me what your opinion is in this regard and what they indicate regarding the capabilities and power of XSX compared to PS5.

You're making excuses for them when you should be asking them why their console is not consistently delivering on the ideology that it was supposed to be the most performant console hardware available.

LOL x2
Another example of juggling on your part
The question was clear and your answer was nonsense too.
You were the one who questioned the capabilities and power of XSX making the typical meaningless hater mockery. I just refuted that nonsense and your reaction has been as expected.

The background of the information is clear... and the conclusions about the power and capabilities of both consoles are also clear. Whether you like to accept it or not, they indicate a direction and I refer to the evidence.

Is simple, if PS5 benefits from being the console with the best tools, being the base development platform and being the platform to which the most optimization time is dedicated...... that in the vast majority of cases XSX is performing the same or in many cases better than PS5 in Third Party games (many of which are the most technically advanced) say a lot about the XSX hardware capabilities and power vs PS5.
There are no excuses, only reality and facts is being exposed.

At the end of the day nobody cares about the spec sheets, nobody cares about the "tools", "base development platform" or any other excuses that get thrown around, people only care about the results.

Of course, no one cares... and you say this while being in a thread that aims to respond to that aspect and with a lot of people arguing about the technical reasons

If a game performs worse on my 4090 than it does on the PS5 or any other console do you think I'm making shitty excuses like "oh poor them, the PC isn't the lead development environment", or am I demanding answers along with a fix?

It is clear that you live in another reality. If it were the case that a 4090 was worse than a console, there would be threads just like this trying to find the reasons and yes, it would be full of people asking for explanations and asking the Studio for solutions.

The time for talk is over. We are over half way through a console generation, people want results, and so far the results speak volumes.

The results are there, conclusions can be drawn. Another thing is that you are only interested in the conclusions in a certain sense

 

[GHG]

Lol With your response I only detect your need to duck the issue in the absence of arguments. Apart from speaking without knowing.

Yes, there is a lot of circumstance in those games. GWTokyo is a game made based on the PS5 at launch and was frequently updated in the following year with successive patches. It is XSX that received the port.

SOT is an XBO game updated to XSX practically via BC using the XBO X version that has not received any graphics update in 4 years. The PS5 port was not made by Rare. I should point out that in the120hz mode SOT works considerably better in XSX despite everything.
HiFis a port made by a different Studio than the original.

The fact is that you have more advanced "first party" games than those mentioned that perform considerably better on XSX and I would like you to explain to me what your opinion is in this regard and what they indicate regarding the capabilities and power of XSX compared to PS5.


LOL x2
Another example of juggling on your part
The question was clear and your answer was nonsense too.
You were the one who questioned the capabilities and power of XSX making the typical meaningless hater mockery. I just refuted that nonsense and your reaction has been as expected.

The background of the information is clear... and the conclusions about the power and capabilities of both consoles are also clear. Whether you like to accept it or not, they indicate a direction and I refer to the evidence.

Is simple, if PS5 benefits from being the console with the best tools, being the base development platform and being the platform to which the most optimization time is dedicated...... that in the vast majority of cases XSX is performing the same or in many cases better than PS5 in Third Party games (many of which are the most technically advanced) say a lot about the XSX hardware capabilities and power vs PS5.
There are no excuses, only reality and facts is being exposed.



Of course, no one cares... and you say this while being in a thread that aims to respond to that aspect and with a lot of people arguing about the technical reasons


It is clear that you live in another reality. If it were the case that a 4090 was worse than a console, there would be threads just like this trying to find the reasons and yes, it would be full of people asking for explanations and asking the Studio for solutions.



The results are there, conclusions can be drawn. Another thing is that you are only interested in the conclusions in a certain sense

Most likely more towards the sorry that happened end of the spectrum. Knock yourself out with the emojis, I've got elden ring to play.

 

[Darsxx82]

Most likely more towards the sorry that happened end of the spectrum. Knock yourself out with the emojis, I've got elden ring to play.

Your Honor, nothing more to add...(The reaction describes the character.)

 

[magnumpy]

blast processing? or secret sauce. or both

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Jason Ronald isn’t working on the next Xbox hardware is he? Having said that , after what’s happened so far this generation I have zero hype for their next offering anyway , the twats always let me down.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

This legendary thread sure aged like fine wine huh

|OT| - |OT| Xbox Power King Memes

Rather than fill up *every* thread with gloating memes ... let’s just do it here so not every PlayStation fan has to endure the suffering of their personal embarrassment in all places at all times.

www.neogaf.com

 

[M1chl]

Like I said from that infamous thread, the whole GDK fucking sucks. As someone who had unfortunate experience, I vastly prefer stuff for Playstation, how its all integrated, how lightweight it felt, how easy you can do accurate tests and so on. But that's the story with MS development in general, everything is verbose, yet confusing. Take for example C# vs Java vs GO. The dev experience is in different stratosphere between those (ranked from worst to best). I generally think if MS and Sony swapped the HW, the situation would be similar to how it is now. Because devs are lazy (I know that myself about myself) if you hit them with ton of shit, which requires them to search through poorly written and structured docs, not the mention "magical" black box which is Direct X, they won't make the best version, because optimization like that is not fun. Debug just straight sucks, generally you will end up in their code, not in yours and that is terrible to navigate. Its easy to start, its easy to draw shit on screen, but its incredibly hard to master.

Also MS forked GO and its probably going to sucks as well. Visual G++

And yes, I prefer Xbox as a console. The duality of me

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Like I said from that infamous thread, the whole GDK fucking sucks. As someone who had unfortunate experience, I vastly prefer stuff for Playstation, how its all integrated, how lightweight it felt, how easy you can do accurate tests and so on. But that's the story with MS development in general, everything is verbose, yet confusing. Take for example C# vs Java vs GO. The dev experience is in different stratosphere between those (ranked from worst to best). I generally think if MS and Sony swapped the HW, the situation would be similar to how it is now. Because devs are lazy (I know that myself about myself) if you hit them with ton of shit, which requires them to search through poorly written and structured docs, not the mention "magical" black box which is Direct X, they won't make the best version, because optimization like that is not fun. Debug just straight sucks, generally you will end up in their code, not in yours and that is terrible to navigate. Its easy to start, its easy to draw shit on screen, but its incredibly hard to master.

Also MS forked GO and its probably going to sucks as well. Visual G++

And yes, I prefer Xbox as a console. The duality of me

Well the issue is that PS stuff is (mostly) bespoke and designed for the specific hardware, but the Xbox stuff is mostly just DirectX and regular PC development and by design PC development has to support infinity possible configurations and cannot be super well optimized or efficient. If you have an actual gaming PC you can make up for this abstraction and inefficiency with sheer brute force by throwing in a monster CPU and GPU but the Xbox doesn't have that benefit

 

[M1chl]

Well the issue is that PS stuff is (mostly) bespoke and designed for the specific hardware, but the Xbox stuff is mostly just DirectX and regular PC development and by design PC development has to support infinity possible configurations and cannot be super well optimized or efficient. If you have an actual gaming PC you can make up for this abstraction and inefficiency with sheer brute force by throwing in a monster CPU and GPU but the Xbox doesn't have that benefit

There are still specific console calls, however obviously if you are making game to PC, there is very little incentive to use them or use them properly

 

[SonGoku]

Or... OR... it just might not have anything to do with resolution. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're mentioning resolution differences... because games which actually take stress the advantage of higher compute outside of resolution... aren't being made at this point.. In games where the compute pipeline is being taxed, Xbox is pulling ahead about what you'd expect.

Thats exactly how it works... lower the resolution by x% and the y% compute advantage is overcome. PS5 could do anything SX can at lower resolution

 

[onQ123]

Jason Ronald isn’t working on the next Xbox hardware is he? Having said that , after what’s happened so far this generation I have zero hype for their next offering anyway , the twats always let me down.

The next one will actually be a beast ( well the last one was a beast for it's time) the next one isn't for the masses & they will go all out on at least one of the SKUs

 

[Self_Destructive]

Thats exactly how it works... lower the resolution by x% and the y% compute advantage is overcome. PS5 could do anything SX can at lower resolution

Nobody ever said it couldn't. What I'm saying is that games need to be made which prioritize doing more compute heavy aspects of visuals instead of pushing resolution on Xbox.... then you would get games on PS which actually do significantly drop resolution or visual quality compared to Xbox.

 

[SlimySnake]

Like I said from that infamous thread, the whole GDK fucking sucks. As someone who had unfortunate experience, I vastly prefer stuff for Playstation, how its all integrated, how lightweight it felt, how easy you can do accurate tests and so on. But that's the story with MS development in general, everything is verbose, yet confusing. Take for example C# vs Java vs GO. The dev experience is in different stratosphere between those (ranked from worst to best). I generally think if MS and Sony swapped the HW, the situation would be similar to how it is now. Because devs are lazy (I know that myself about myself) if you hit them with ton of shit, which requires them to search through poorly written and structured docs, not the mention "magical" black box which is Direct X, they won't make the best version, because optimization like that is not fun. Debug just straight sucks, generally you will end up in their code, not in yours and that is terrible to navigate. Its easy to start, its easy to draw shit on screen, but its incredibly hard to master.

Also MS forked GO and its probably going to sucks as well. Visual G++

And yes, I prefer Xbox as a console. The duality of me

Apologies if you've explained this to me before, but what has changed since the 360 era when devs were working with the same APIs and produced better results?

I am struggling to understand how sony software engineers can create better APIs than microsoft. microsoft is literally a software company. their APIs were ok in the 360 era. what changed in a span of two generations?

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Like CP Phantom Liberty? Oh wait...




Maybe Avatar Frontiers of Pandora?? Oh wait...






Maybe Immortals of Aveum?? Oh wait...

Totally destroyed

 

[Self_Destructive]

Totally destroyed

Complete nonsense

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

"So, based on our conversations, the combination of a more efficient GPU compiler, lower-level APIs and higher clock speeds allows PlayStation 5 to match or even exceed the outputs of Xbox Series X in some scenarios. "

To me, that just sounds like an overall better engineered system.

this

 

[AngelMuffin]

The Ssries X eats monsters for breakfast, so it’s got that going for it.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Do you ever think we will see a modular console design? Not a PC but a console that has removable parts. Let's say Microsoft and AMD make a deal for 10 years. That they offer upgrade paths every 3 years. 2 different GPU configurations / 2 CPU configurations / and Ram / SSD Upgrade paths?

This would ensure that customers can upgrade as they see fit or need. This also allows developers to have a closed "known" set of variables unlike PC where you can many different specs that could cause issue?

This would allow more PC centric flow and compatibility with games, while offering a slightly more advanced console experience?

I really hope MS goes this route for the next console!

 

[UltimaKilo]

Ironically in a strange way it is the tools, but that actually makes it even worse because Microsoft is a software company.

This is baffling.

I've been without the Series X for 9 months. Sold it last year. Don't miss it. Not even that quick resume is worth locking down your games to this box.
All my Microsoft, (Gamepass) is done on PC. I use their controllers as they have worked best for PC.

What does this honestly have to do with the topic or the article? Just came to troll, or looking for a ban?

The PS5 GPU is divvied up in a more balanced way and offers 20% more rasterization performance pretty much upfront, whereas the XSX GPU offers 15-20% more compute and texture capabilities, but you'll need to optimise your workload well to leverage that entire advantage. Pair this with stronger APIs and the incentive to prioritise the market leader; and most games being neck and neck, or slightly stronger on PS5 makes sense.

On a bit of a sidenote I think Sony read the room better on their console design. They've managed to basically match Xbox with a smaller, cheaper die, taking into account various factors..

That said, as the gen goes on I expect to see multiplat games garner a small lead on XSX vs the base PS5 as we're leaning more towards compute and RT; and as we see more optimisation for current gen only titles. Mandatory PS5 Pro modes on games coming out not long after launch may even benefit XSX as the workload will be getting spread out more.

There’s nothing Microsoft can do to make themselves the base development platform now that the PS install base is so far ahead, but could they do something at this stage about the compiler? If so, why haven’t they already? And if you can explain it to me like I’m an ignorant moron (because I am), I’d appreciate it!

You're talking to somebody who founded and runs a software business. Stop projecting.

It's Microsoft's job to ensure developers can get the most out of the hardware rather than waste their time and energy marketing to impressionable people who will blindly believe their hardware's theoretical peak numbers and run with it as gospel. Judging by what you claim to be, you should know that, rather than wave away their failure to follow through on their promises in this area as "complex". There's nothing complex about it, they even said "wait for the tools", and those tools are yet to arrive (well, some tools have always been here, just not the ones they really need where they need them).



There's nothing specific about the situation with any of those games. Some of those games have been available on Series X hardware since it's release, in those cases they've had that long to brush up on it and ensure it's the best version, but no, a PS5 version releases out of the blue and it's on par, if not better in some areas. You're making excuses for them when you should be asking them why their console is not consistently delivering on the ideology that it was supposed to be the most performant console hardware available.

At the end of the day nobody cares about the spec sheets, nobody cares about the "tools", "base development platform" or any other excuses that get thrown around, people only care about the results.

The time for talk is over. We are over half way through a console generation, people want results, and so far the results speak volumes.

So what can be done at this point, from Microsoft’s side of things with regard to the API?

i'm not on xbox vs playstation side or take sides, but its sad seeing so many people with such pent up aggression towards xbox writing novels, circle jerking and rallying around all in their element, fully grown men exacting their revenge on other who chose the other sides children's toy.

It’s better than it was a few months ago, but this is bringing out the children. I’m here reading the thread trying to learn from people who understand this tech babble far better than I do, only to come across console warriors.

Apologies if you've explained this to me before, but what has changed since the 360 era when devs were working with the same APIs and produced better results?

I am struggling to understand how sony software engineers can create better APIs than microsoft. microsoft is literally a software company. their APIs were ok in the 360 era. what changed in a span of two generations?

I’m asking the same thing. If this is the case, it should be nothing short of embarrassing and how poorly XBOX has been managed. I would have thought that with the incredible amount of internal assets XBX team had, and continues to have at its disposal, this should have not been the case. Do MS devs not work across divisions or did team Xbox just drop the ball?

 

[j0hnnix]

The Xbox Series X just needs a little..

To get going.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

20% is not considerably more powerful, Its the difference between 1440p and 1728p average dynamic resolution on ideal scaling scenario, unless you consider that difference considerable then disregard my comment. Besides even ignoring potential bottlenecks, compute does not scale linearly and even if it did the best case scenario the SX would get 20% higher average dynamic resolution which again is not a considerable difference.

How is that not considerable? On a 4k tv it definitely makes a noticeable difference in image quality. 1728p can feel like a 4k image (its not obvsly but it looks crisp) whereas 1440p always looks "soft"

 

[consoul]

Cerny has a Knack for these things.

 

[Self_Destructive]

How is that not considerable? On a 4k tv it definitely makes a noticeable difference in image quality. 1728p can feel like a 4k image (its not obvsly but it looks crisp) whereas 1440p always looks "soft"

Yep. It is a considerable advantage for sure, especially between hardware in the same console generation. Obviously having things like dynamic resolution and TAA/reconstruction is going to make it less noticeable, especially when games aren't pushing more compute heavy effects and visuals and just having parity between the two platforms for the most part. That's the issue, games need to utilize it in a way which is easily observable.. and that's kind of the point.. they haven't been.

Let's just ask them a simple question. Is the PS5 Pro going to be a considerable leap over the PS5, given that it's going to mostly amount to a resolution increase? I mean people also expect visuals and effects to improve... such as ray tracing effects and more assets, further view distances, LODs ect ect.. So there's lots more they could do with that compute instead of just making res higher.

It's too little too late for MS now anyway. Any compute advantage they would have had is gone with the PS5 Pro easily surpassing it. And if you're looking at "20% compute not being considerably more powerful" then you could say that the PS5 Pro isn't considerably more powerful than the Series X

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

This is baffling.



What does this honestly have to do with the topic or the article? Just came to troll, or looking for a ban?



There’s nothing Microsoft can do to make themselves the base development platform now that the PS install base is so far ahead, but could they do something at this stage about the compiler? If so, why haven’t they already? And if you can explain it to me like I’m an ignorant moron (because I am), I’d appreciate it!



So what can be done at this point, from Microsoft’s side of things with regard to the API?



It’s better than it was a few months ago, but this is bringing out the children. I’m here reading the thread trying to learn from people who understand this tech babble far better than I do, only to come across console warriors.



I’m asking the same thing. If this is the case, it should be nothing short of embarrassing and how poorly XBOX has been managed. I would have thought that with the incredible amount of internal assets XBX team had, and continues to have at its disposal, this should have not been the case. Do MS devs not work across divisions or did team Xbox just drop the ball?

I want to know this too! As a gamer who is not a fanboy, who bought a PS5 AND a Series X later, I was looking forward to buying multiplats on my SX to have a graphically superior version. There has only been a few games all gen that were significantly better looking that I was happy to get on Xbox: Hitman 3 (not a big difference) and Lego Starwars Skywalker saga (a big resolution difference), Doom Eternal (better AF on sx) and Avengers performance mode (the ps5 dynamic res is blurry whereas sx looks crisp).

However, there are just as many games that run better on PS5 (probably more). Whichever way you look at it, this is yet another failure of Microsoft this generation. That 20% compute difference is significant to me. I'd buy an 1728p game over 1440p every time as it holds up better on a 4k tv!

But MS hasnt taken advantage of the discrepency and actually delivered games with signifantly higher resolution (outside a few) so whether its the TOOLS, the SERIES S parity clause, or whatever its ultimately disappointing for Series X owners and MS is at fault!

 

[kikkis]

20% is not considerably more powerful, Its the difference between 1440p and 1728p average dynamic resolution on ideal scaling scenario, unless you consider that difference considerable then disregard my comment. Besides even ignoring potential bottlenecks, compute does not scale linearly and even if it did the best case scenario the SX would get 20% higher average dynamic resolution which again is not a considerable difference.

It's less than 1728p. You have to calculate from area not vertical resolution.

While apis might be better on ps5, there is also reports that msvc performs 5-10% faster than clang compiler of ps5.