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[Guilty_AI]

Like it or not, the PC marketplace for games has been rebuilt through DRM (1st through Valve's own DRM, and then companies like Irdeto)

Lmao, drm has existed in pc gaming since its dawn. Even before it was "rebuilt", there was already plenty of shitty drm like SecuROM that required online checks, that certainly didn't stop the temporary decline in the mid 2000s.

And valve's drm is basically water, it doesn't stop piracy and can be cracked day 0, dont think that had any effect on piracy or the market whole. What rebuilt pc gaming was the digital marketplace.

And lets not go into detail on how some of the most popular releases have been drm free.

 

[Astray]

And valve's drm is basically water, it doesn't stop piracy and can be cracked day 0

Today it can, but back in the day it was exceedingly annoying to deal with.

I still remember buying some Football Manager game and getting deeply annoyed by the DRM too.

But ultimately, you can't possibly be expecting anyone to actually invest serious money on the hope and pinkie promise that no one will pirate their products? Some measure of assurance is just needed in every business endeavor.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Today it can, but back in the day it was exceedingly annoying to deal with.

It was annoying, but also fairly easy to crack. So only paying customers were being bothered

But ultimately, you can't possibly be expecting anyone to actually invest serious money on the hope and pinkie promise that no one will pirate their products? Some measure of assurance is just needed in every business endeavor.

CDPR, From, Larian, Sony, all seem perfectly content with that pinky promise... and considering their sales, they were correct.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Nobody outside of the hardcorest of the hardcore cares about this. This controversy is entired confined to Twitter and Reddit and has likely no business impact at all. I'd be surprised if 1 in 5000 gamers could tell me what Denuvo is or does.

 

[MMaRsu]

Nobody outside of the hardcorest of the hardcore cares about this. This controversy is entired confined to Twitter and Reddit and has likely no business impact at all. I'd be surprised if 1 in 5000 gamers could tell me what Denuvo is or does.

PC gamers are more knowledgable then people who just play games on their console.

Ask 1000 PC gamers who use Steam, I will bet you 90% will know what it is.

 

[MMaRsu]

It does mitigate it very heavily though. Like it or not, the PC marketplace for games has been rebuilt through DRM (1st through Valve's own DRM, and then companies like Irdeto), if there was no meaningful DRM then I guarantee you that you won't see day and date AAA game releases, let alone any AAA releases coming to PC.

Look at a game like Hogwarts Legacy, that game had a dedicated DRM hacker try their hardest to break it, and it was, but that came after WB got their full preorder window orders in (and then some). That's actually a business success for Irdeto and their Denuvo product.

Notorious game cracker has removed Denuvo from Hogwarts Legacy after just two weeks

Game cracker "Empress" has once again achieved the impossible. After a brief beta period managed through her Telegram channel, the notorious hacker has released a "cracked" version...

www.techspot.com

What about massive games like The Witcher 3, Cyberpunk 2077, Elden Ring not using any DRM and achieving massive sales?

 

[Guilty_AI]

Nobody outside of the hardcorest of the hardcore cares about this. This controversy is entired confined to Twitter and Reddit and has likely no business impact at all. I'd be surprised if 1 in 5000 gamers could tell me what Denuvo is or does.

Casual gamers will care once their game isn't starting for reasons like "denuvo servers are down" or "compatibility issues of the drm with this new cpu model"

 

[Astray]

It was annoying, but also fairly easy to crack. So only paying customers were being bothered

It being annoying in some ways didn't stop the growth of Steam into a global behemoth. If it was a meaningful issue in any way I guarantee you that GOG would be far bigger than it is now.

CDPR, From, Larian, Sony, all seem perfectly content with that pinky promise... and considering their sales, they were correct.

Ultimately it's their call, others have chosen to go for different DRMs at almost-negligible inconveniences to customers.

 

[MMaRsu]

If it was a meaningful issue in any way I guarantee you that GOG would be far bigger than it is now.

GoG came in very late, and their launcher is kinda ass.

And like I said:

"What about massive games like The Witcher 3, Cyberpunk 2077, Elden Ring not using any DRM and achieving massive sales?"

 

[Guilty_AI]

It being annoying in some ways didn't stop the growth of Steam into a global behemoth. If it was a meaningful issue in any way I guarantee you that GOG would be far bigger than it is now.

Ultimately it's their call, others have chosen to go for different DRMs at almost-negligible inconveniences to customers.

 

[Astray]

You must have had an aneurysm. How is it post moving when I literally started out saying that DRM is a big reason that led us to having PC market now?

 

[MMaRsu]

You must have had an aneurysm. How is it post moving when I literally started out saying that DRM is a big reason that led us to having PC market now?

Because you're absolutely wrong.

 

[Guilty_AI]

You must have had an aneurysm. How is it post moving when I literally started out saying that DRM is a big reason that led us to having PC market now?

Because your last post literally changed the argument from "DRM helped the pc market" to "DRM didn't hamper the pc market"

 

[zeomax]

Denuvo is very effective, people who think denuvo games are cracked as soon as they are released are living in cloud cuckoo-land.

The publishers and their shareholders are living in a cloud cuckoo-land.
It is possible to bypass Denuvo day one. It only needs one activated game and you can share the activation tokens with others. Yes technically it is not cracked but the game is playable without buying it.

 

[MonkeyClaw36]

lmao

IKR. We can benchmark this ourselves. Get a pirated copy and a retail one. Guess the outcome...

 

[Melfice7]

But we know it is, they know it is, we know they know it is, they know we know they know it is, yet here we are

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Casual gamers will care once their game isn't starting for reasons like "denuvo servers are down" or "compatibility issues of the drm with this new cpu model"

Nobody gives a fuck as evidenced by reality. If Denuvo was a customer repellent, the market would've driven it out. That hasn't happened and it won't happen because nobody cares. The gaming market is ultra competitive so any bad decision will be felt immediately.

 

[ahtlas7]

So Denuvo is going to commit seppuku?

 

[March Climber]

Why?

For gaming, it is something that exists mainly due to the faults of licensing, DRM issues, and past video game companies not realizing that video games as an industry had way more merit during it’s earlier years than simply being compared to the toy industry.

I would rather have companies and indie devs get paid for their efforts, including past ones. Steam Sales, PS Sales, Xbox Sales, and retailer sales are great. Regarding the games of the past, someone somewhere would have to find ways to not only resurrect old IP, but also find ways to re-release those games on platforms like steam so that they can be legally enjoyed.

I’ve already listed examples of ways the industry can better itself so that there’s less and less of a reason to pirate modern titles(in the post you’ve quoted). Everyone has to change but barely anyone is willing to and if they are, they’re very very slow in doing so.

I don’t like piracy, however I understand why it still exists for video games.

 

[night13x]

someone once argued with me on steam forums that the denuvo performance hampering is actually an intended feature. According to that person, having the performance severly cut to low level console specs ensures everyone is on an even playing field in getting the same exact experience.

Imagine.