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[Toons]

A well managed project will have employees working 40 hours a week(or whatever their contract says) and have the product be completed and delivered on time.
Crunch is a sign of poor project management. It does not need to come back.

When has crunch recently resulted in an amazing polished game specifically?

 

[Yonyx]

But Long term crunch isn't productive..... it's retarded.

It leads to mistakes, which leads to more crunch, which leads to burnout, which leads to quitting, which leads to rehiring, which leads to more training which leads to more crunch....

Saying crunch is productive is like saying weight training is more productive training 7 days a week as opposed to 4 days.

No 7 days will lead short term gain followed by overtraining, burnout and injuries.

Very true answer. I am a bit concerned that so far only I have liked your great message.

 

[IAmRei]

I can play longer games, 20-40-80h, is all fine, as long as dont have boring segment a lot. But if its grinding for lv or sp/ap, etc, im fine.

But game today is mostly about finding checklist much. Unless its zelda, i'm not too care about completition of something unecessery and often bored with the routine.

 

[The artful mincer]

Very true answer. I am a bit concerned that so far only I have liked your great message.

Yes it's unfortunate that discussing crunch seems to have become a political issue.

This very thread seems to be more about bashing Jason Schrier and not about crunch's effect on productivity and worker well being.

As far as I'm concerned this is scientific question not a political question.

It's very frustrating that people just automatically believe crunch leads to better productivity. It's a very simplistic view of looking at the situation that hasn't shown much thought beyond

More hours = more work done

Show me data to back this shit up lol. Or at least give me some rational arguments.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Crunch isn't good for anyone, only an inept, short sighted, short term gain focused manager would approve of a cycle of burnout and health issues that leads to a revolving door of hires and squandered skill and experience.
Also in the EU at least these practices are either illegal or highly regulated to the point where it becomes very unattractive for employers to even consider it; I worked at a small studio for about two years, and the boss would come in and tell me to not stay too long and just go home after my shift was done.

 

[cash_longfellow]

He has returneth…

 

[Kindela]

I think that crunch has gotten to much of a negative reputation. Crunch is working overtime, right? If you want to be the best of the best, and deliver on your uncompromising vision, you're not going to achieve that by working as everyone else, you need to do more.

You don't become the best in the world by training like everyone else.

 

[Ozriel]

I think that crunch has gotten to much of a negative reputation. Crunch is working overtime, right? If you want to be the best of the best, and deliver on your uncompromising vision, you're not going to achieve that by working as everyone else, you need to do more.

You don't become the best in the world by training like everyone else.

‘Crunch’ as often reported is way more than just ‘working overtime’. It’s not just staying back after COB for a few hours. It used to be working 16 hour days for weeks on end, including weekend. It used to be developers getting home absolutely exhausted with no time for family or rest.

Crunched: has the games industry really stopped exploiting its workforce? | Games | The Guardian

In 2004, the EA Spouse controversy exposed a culture of unpaid overtime throughout the games industry. In this special report we investigate how much, if anything, has changed

amp.theguardian.com

My significant other works for Electronic Arts and I’m what you might call a disgruntled spouse.

It was with these words 10 years ago that Erin Hoffman began an online journal detailing her husband’s gruelling experience working at an EA game development studio. For months on end he worked 12-hour days, six days a week, and when the game’s final deadline loomed, it got worse. “The current mandatory hours are 9am to 10pm – seven days a week,” she wrote, “with the occasional Saturday evening off for good behavior (at 6:30pm).”
For many gamers, the EA Spouse web post, as it was known at the time (Hoffman had to remain anonymous to protect her husband’s job) offered a first glimpse into the video game industry’s secret world of “crunch” – vast periods of mandatory, but often unpaid, overtime that would often kick in during the months leading to a release date.
The article went viral, spreading across forums and news sites, and provoking a wave of controversy and condemnation. Very quickly it became clear that the most shocking thing about the EA Spouse story was that, within the industry, it wasn’t shocking at all. It was just how things worked. Game development surveys conducted by the International Game Developers Association in 2004 showed that only 2.4% of respondents worked in no-crunch environments and 46.8% received no compensation for their overtime.

And then you come to this thread and see people hoping for a return to shit like this just so their favorite corporation’s profits get bigger.

Crunch isn’t needed. Give developers the time they need to make these games. Don’t throw a hissy fit because a game’s come out without extreme levels of detail.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

‘Crunch’ as often reported is way more than just ‘working overtime’. It’s not just staying back after COB for a few hours. It used to be working 16 hour days for weeks on end, including weekend. It used to be developers getting home absolutely exhausted with no time for family or rest.

Crunched: has the games industry really stopped exploiting its workforce? | Games | The Guardian

In 2004, the EA Spouse controversy exposed a culture of unpaid overtime throughout the games industry. In this special report we investigate how much, if anything, has changed

amp.theguardian.com

And then you come to this thread and see people hoping for a return to shit like this just so their favorite corporation’s profits get bigger.

Crunch isn’t needed. Give developers the time they need to make these games. Don’t throw a hissy fit because a game’s come out without extreme levels of detail.

If only 2.4% of workers get crunched and a lot of games now take 4-5 years with big budgets, compared to the 360/PS3 days where they churned out two quality games in the same time, then it seems to me they got plenty of time and budget to make games.

Also, the theory from techies that they are more productive at home, and a lot of desk jobbers were wfh for all or hybrid since 2020. Yet games seem more delayed and overbudget than ever. If wfh is supposedly so much more refreshing and productive not having to commute and get dragged into boring water cooler talk for an hour, you'd think that games lately would be the most cost efficient, on time, and polished games ever in gaming history, since only during covid to now has wfh become a norm.

 

[Ozriel]

If only 2.4% of workers get crunched and a lot of games now take 4-5 years with big budgets, compared to the 360/PS3 days where they churned out two quality games in the same time, then it seems to me they got plenty of time and budget to make games.

the article snippet clearly states that the 2.4% that time were workers who weren’t working in crunch situations. Not that only 2.4% got crunched. Perhaps reading slower might help?

Games are taking longer to make and cost more because the level of detail in the HD/4K era is much more than ever before, consumers demand ever increasing levels of detail and teams are bigger as a result.

Also, the theory from techies that they are more productive at home, and a lot of desk jobbers were wfh for all or hybrid since 2020. Yet games seem more delayed and overbudget than ever. If wfh is supposedly so much more refreshing and productive not having to commute and get dragged into boring water cooler talk for an hour, you'd think that games lately would be the most cost efficient, on time, and polished games ever in gaming history, since only during covid to now has wfh become a norm.

The likes of Spiderman 2 aren’t crazy expensive because workers are not hitting development milestones. SM2 wasn’t ‘delayed’, and didn’t spend an excessive amount of time in development. Most of the delays in recent years have either stemmed from COVID era disruptions or stuff like Suicide Squad where they took some time to incorporate feedback from the initial reveal.

Mismanagement, changing scope and leadership infighting are more prevalent reasons for delays and reboots. Why blame rank and file devs for these?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

the article snippet clearly states that the 2.4% that time were workers who weren’t working in crunch situations. Not that only 2.4% got crunched. Perhaps reading slower might help?

Games are taking longer to make and cost more because the level of detail in the HD/4K era is much more than ever before, consumers demand ever increasing levels of detail and teams are bigger as a result.




The likes of Spiderman 2 aren’t crazy expensive because workers are not hitting development milestones. SM2 wasn’t ‘delayed’, and didn’t spend an excessive amount of time in development. Most of the delays in recent years have either stemmed from COVID era disruptions or stuff like Suicide Squad where they took some time to incorporate feedback from the initial reveal.

Mismanagement, changing scope and leadership infighting are more prevalent reasons for delays and reboots. Why blame rank and file devs for these?

And why blame management? Who says delays and crap games are due to management's fault? Management is always easy to blame because in good times or bad times they take the high brow approach and dont go ragging on Twitter.

If you're someone who blames management for bad product or delays, then it's fair to go the other way to. If a game is solid and on time, that's management doing a good job and not the rank and filers who did the good work. For example, Palworld and Helldivers 2 have been giant successes. By far, the two biggest surprise hits so far this year and will be giant money makers. Good job management take all the credit.

Cant have it both ways.